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Cheaper Car Insurance For Gamers
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Thu Oct 02, 2008 09:11 AM
from the hand-eye-coordination dept.
from the hand-eye-coordination dept.
I know your first reaction is that this story is gonna be an ad, but
SpuriousLogic's story is actually about insurers considering giving a discount to elderly gamers. The question is: does gaming improve mental agility and make you a safer driver? And if so, I'll have to add gaming to mowing the lawn for my weekly chores.
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It make sense to me (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
...as elderly gamers probably spend very little time in their cars.
Mod parent up. I was going to try to post something funny, but I don't think I can top that.
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Funny, since grampy started playing GTA4 he's spent more time in [stolen] cars!
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Well, I'm already a gamer.
And this morning, I'm feeling kinda elderly. What the heck, sign me up!
Re:It make sense to me (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe for elderly gamers, but when I read the title I was wondering if the story would go to young gamers and I believe for them there is no correlation between gaming skill and beginning driving ability.
Back when my 17 year old son was driving for the first time we were at a left turn stop light and it was green, but not a green turn arrow. He slowly started pulling out to make the turn. He had plenty of time to make it through the intersection before the car in the on-coming lane got to the intersection, but my son was moving uncharacteristically slowly through the intersection. I told him to go faster. I had to say this several times till the point where the on-coming car was well within my personal "danger zone". He finally started going, no incident at all and I asked him about it once we were in the clear. He said that he did not see that on coming car at all. He was paying "hyper" attention to his turn radius.
Anyway, the up shot is that I would have thunk that a kid who can kick my butt at FPSs would have the ability to scan a "real life" scene and similarly be aware of all the action out there.
Apparently not.
Parent
Re:It make sense to me (Score:4, Funny)
Different games require different mental "modes" to perform well in them. For example, both FPS's and driving games promote fast reflexes. But for FPS's, your view is forward, and hence intense concentration of "forward" gets promoted, a tunnel vision of sorts. For racing games, and especially something like Mario Kart, you need a greater awareness of the situation around you. The same concepts apply to turn-based and realtime strategy games.
So I'll bet if someone runs out onto the road in front of your son while he's driving, he'll respond very quickly. Now, whether that's hitting the brake hard or hitting the gas hard is a separate matter...
Parent
Re:It make sense to me (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Yes! (Score:4, Funny)
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Now kids don't try this... (Score:3, Interesting)
I was thinking of this guy actually:
http://hamptonroads.com/2008/09/johnson-wins-edwards-hits-wall-purpose [hamptonroads.com]
Quote:
"I planned on hitting the wall, but I didn't plan on the wall slowing me down that much," Edwards said. "In video games, you can just run into the wall and run it wide open. That's what I did, but it didn't quite work out the same as the video game."
Probably NOT the same for younger drivers (Score:2)
So this appears to be for older drivers (50+) only. I suspect we shouldn't jump to the same conclusions about younger drivers, because I'm not totally confident that Grand Theft Auto, or the Battlefield series will really make better drivers. Perhaps more aggressive ones, for better or worse. :-P
--
Hey code monkey... learn electronics! Powerful microcontroller kits for the digital generation. [nerdkits.com]
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Two of my all time favorite games were Screamer (and its sequel) and Road Rash. I still play Road Rash once in a while, even though it came out over ten years ago. I can't get Screamer to play in Windows.
The last time I had my license renewed I wouldn't even have had to go to the DMV because of my lack of tickets or accidents. I went anyway, my eye doctor had turned me into a cyborg and I wanted to get the eyewear restrictions off the license. You will be assimilated!
I'm not sure if Road Rash made me into a
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Wrong question (Score:4, Insightful)
The question is, does gaming improve mental agility and make you a safer driver.
That's the wrong question. A more correct question would be "Is there a correlation between gaming and driving ability?"
It could very well be the there is no causal relationship between the two, but rather they share a common cause. Perhaps those without sufficient mental acuity/coordination to drive also lack the "mad skillz" needed for gaming, and thus they don't find games to be enjoyable and therefore don't play.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The question is, does gaming improve mental agility and make you a safer driver.
That's the wrong question. A more correct question would be "Is there a correlation between gaming and driving ability?"
It could very well be the there is no causal relationship between the two, but rather they share a common cause. Perhaps those without sufficient mental acuity/coordination to drive also lack the "mad skillz" needed for gaming, and thus they don't find games to be enjoyable and therefore don't play.
It may be the wrong question, but it's probably the one they're basing their ideas on. Or this is a games-company sponsored stunt to try to reinforce the popular but scientifically groundless notion that playing games in old age is somehow good for you.
I suppose though there could be a hundred other confounding factors like playing games being a marker of biological age, being around younger family, being the kind of person that is generall aware of the world around them, etc.
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It may be the wrong question, but it's probably the one they're basing their ideas on.
I doubt it. Insurance companies don't care about causation, only correlation. They are in the business of gambling. They try to work out the probability of you having an accident is one in n, and then charge you a bit more than the cost of the payout divided by n. They don't care about individuals, because their business is splitting risk among large groups. If they can say that people in group A have a lower average chance of being involved in an accident, then they will give them lower premiums, even
Insinsite clod! (Score:2)
Dude no joke.... (Score:3, Informative)
My brother was in an accident maybe 5 years ago or so. He was in his jeep on a 2 way road. A car was coming towards him and the driver was drunk. Right at the last moment the car swerved into my brothers lane. My brother was able to react and turn hard enough to allow the car to hit the back side of his jeep instead of the drivers side.
He said his reaction time from playing video games was what helped him, and he really does believe that. I don't blame him nor do I doubt him. I always thought I had a higher reaction time as a result of video games, and I'm sure a study on this has been done to prove it.
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So what you're saying is: you suck at gaming?
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So it wasn't the jolt of adrenaline, or the fact that he was becoming a more experienced driver, or the fact that he's of a particular astrological sign. It must be video games. That's the only explanation. If he believes that, then it it must be true.
Insurance discount (Score:2)
Summary not wrong, but somewhat misleading (Score:5, Informative)
More time playing games = less time driving (Score:5, Funny)
Re:More time playing games = less time driving (Score:4, Funny)
"I just finished leveling my Destro lock"
"That's great sir. That qualifies you for a 5% discount on your annual rate, if your 6/8 T6 or higher we can adjust it to 10%, but you have to show a decent DPS AND join the State Farm guild".
"Do I have to be in the guild for the 5% discount"?
"No sir that's our standard no life, 'No life, No drive' discount"
"Yeah your right, send the guild invite and mark me down for 10%".
Parent
Depends... (Score:2)
Depends on both the game and the gamer [sluggy.com]
Higher insurance rates for "Crazy Taxi?" (Score:2, Insightful)
Maybe not for Trackmania players (Score:2)
Since I started playing Trackmania, I've started trying to improve my time from home to work...
Not for everyone. (Score:4, Interesting)
While I agree that gaming may help reflexes I disagree that it has an inherent benefit on driving. Driving demands good decision-making and experience. What does it help to have quick reactions if you make poor decisions or over-react?
I've known guys who played games extensively and were crap drivers. All that gaming didn't keep them from getting into accidents anyway. I doubt statistics would support the notion that the rise of gaming has had an positive impact on reducing accidents.
Then there's the video online where some dumb kid and his friends play Initial D in the arcade and then decide to go out for a spin in their car. It doesn't take to long before this kid wrecks his car. Young people are already delusional enough about their driving abilities they don't need anyone making it worse.
Older drivers, on the other hand, will ideally have commonsense and experience on their side. So for them, gaming may have a positive impact because they'll actually be able to put improved reflexes to good use.
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Older drivers, on the other hand, will ideally have commonsense and experience on their side. So for them, gaming may have a positive impact because they'll actually be able to put improved reflexes to good use.
Wrong. People typically overestimate their abilities and "judge" (can't think of a better word) other people's abilities. It's human nature.
As for elderly being safer...let's see.
1. An elderly lady, who had crappy night vision, thought she would be okay enough to drive. She struck my grandfather and tossed him 25 feet through the air and killed him.
2. I live very close to a retirement community. Older drivers are a PITA. They constantly run stop signs, and if you have the gall (HORROR!) of using your h
Same morons that drive while on the phone (Score:2)
So... (Score:2, Funny)
There is a correlation... (Score:3, Interesting)
In relation to the article, they seem to recommend the people to play games of the non-AVG type. For this reason I have my doubts that these games will significantly improve performance in visual tasks. On the other hand, it might support other tasks that are required while driving, but that remains to be shown.
OK, I've watch too many (Score:3, Funny)
bad Japanese monster movies.
I read the headline as "Cheaper Car Insurance For Gamera ".
I guess Godzilla and Mothra have to pay more.
Wait.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Possible indicator of coordination... (Score:4, Insightful)
Games don't help, but they could (Score:3, Interesting)
Video games on the market today certainly don't help with driving, but it's not hard to imagine a game that would. Suppose you had a driving simulator that was realistic, but malicious: every 10-15 minutes, it modifies the world or the behavior of the other drivers to put you in an emergency situation. Pedestrians walk in front your car, drivers cross into opposing traffic, brakes fail, and so on. Your score is how long you can survive. *That* would make people better drivers, but I've never heard of such a game on the market.
Understanding the insurance pricing mechanism (Score:3, Insightful)
Pricing insurance does not, in itself, require a complete (or even partial) understanding of the cause-and-effect relationship between a rating variable and exposure to loss. The insurer (i.e., actuary) need only demonstrate that [1] inclusion of the variable in the rating plan results in a model more predictive of loss than without it; [2] it is verifiable; and [3] the variable is not "unfairly discriminatory"--that is, its use in risk classification is allowed by regulators. In truth, many other issues do come into play but these are the primary factors that the actuary considers when researching a new rating variable.
To the extent that a correlation or causation is hypothesized or believed known, the actuary seeks to confirm it with historical data.
The personal insurance market is very competitive. Insurers will try to develop the most accurate rating plan possible because they want to avoid adverse selection. Thus pricing actuaries do keep on the lookout (especially in bad underwriting cycles such as the one we're in right now) for more sophisticated ways to classify risks in their book, and if it is determined that elderly drivers who play games are a better risk than elderly drivers who do not play games, then a discount is actuarially justified and its use may provide a competitive advantage.
Of course, that doesn't mean an insurer would actually use that variable, as one has to consider whether it can even be reliably known whether an individual is a gamer. What does that mean? You play more than N hours a day? You own a game console? How do you confirm this during the underwriting process? Does it drop off if the insured stops playing? Do they qualify if the grandson is the actual gamer in the household but the insured only plays very occasionally?
To give you an example of how important verifiability is, note that in personal auto, the generally accepted exposure base is car-years, although mileage would be more predictive (think of it: two cars bought on 1/1/2000, one driver drives 40,000 miles/year, the other drives only 1,000 miles/year--which one has more exposure to loss?). The problem with using mileage as the exposure base is that it varies from year to year for a given insured, and is hard to confirm. Your agents aren't going to ask every last one of their policyholders to check their odometer, and even if they did, what is the chance they'll be honest if they know their premiums are directly tied to the result?
That's why I don't put too much stock in this proposed classification--it doesn't seem that it would be sufficiently predictive of loss to justify using it, and moreover, it would be a pain to verify, for the reasons stated above.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been playing WipEout HD a lot this week - I'm in the top 40 in the global rankings for some of the events, surely that entitles me to some kind of insurance discount!?
And as for GTA, I don't aim for the pedestrians like some people do, so that has to count for something :)
Avoiding accidents is rarely about reaction time. If you have to react to something in front of you, then you've already been making some bad decisions in the previous moments. Real life driving is not like a racing game (says the guy
Re:not really (Score:5, Funny)
"Real life driving is not like a racing game, and I'm quoting a judge on this one"
Parent
Re:not really (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm driving along a 40 limit road, at a cautious 30 when someone cluelessly drives into my path from a blind junction where they have no right of way. *I REACT* to this by slowing down and avoiding said stupid driver, thus making a non-situation of it. As I reacted, according to you, I had done something wrong or I wouldn't have had to. What bad decisions had I made previously? Except driving on the public roads in the first place, that is.
Likewise, I react to someone cutting into my lane too close by backing off a bit. What did I do wrong in this instance?
Just hypothetical questions :)
Tom...
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Well, for starters, unless there's reason to be driving under the speed limit (snow? rain?), I find it is generally dangerous in
Re:not really (Score:5, Insightful)
I really don't understand all this crap from US posters about how you should drive at the speed limit, or even faster(!).
Take your reason, someone might be driving the speed limit and not notice "a rolling roadblock". What are they? Blind? When driving, you should always be aware of what cars are near by. And if you are driving along, and you are approaching a car, it is pretty damn obvious that you are going faster then them...
You therefore, take your foot of the accelerator and access the situation, and then decide whether it is safe to pass, or whatever.
Where I'm from learners have to have a big L displayed, and must drive a maximum of 80 kilometres per hour (or the speed limit, whichever is lower). But of course, because they are learners, they often drive slower then the speed limit, even if they don't have to.
It would be very rare for people to get upset at these learners, whether they are on a highway or a city street.
OK, that's one reason why someone might be driving slower, what if they don't know the area? What if they are looking for a house number? What if there are children around? Maybe their breaks don't work so well and they are going to the mechanic? Maybe they just think, "well it's a nice day, no rush to go to work/home, I'll take my time"?
And if some idiot is driving along and cuts that slower driver off, who is at fault? The idiot driving fast and cutting off the slower driver.
Actually, while on the topic of cars, I've often see idiots talking about how they tailgate other drivers because the other drivers drive too slow. Yeah, and you know who is rightfully to blame in the event of a rear ending? The idiot doing the tailgating.
You should always leave enough space between yourself and the car in front to stop safely. If you can't, you aren't driving safely.
Basically, you should be driving safely, and if that means slowing down, then yeah, there isn't a problem with that. (The only case where you can complain legitimately about someone driving too slow is if they are more then about 20 km/h below the speed limit on a highway.)
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And actually wanting to get somewhere isn't a valid reason to drive? I thought the entire purpose of cars and roads were to get people quickly from point A to point B. I think if most people wanted to sit in the car and not get anywhere, they'd not bother even starting the engine.
If you want to drive below the speed limit then that's fine, but you're just being an inconsiderate ass if you let traffic pile up behind you. Pull over and let the people behind you go at the pace they wish to drive.
There are a lo
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
When I lived in the Florida panhandle, the speed limit on the main highway (I-10 - 2 lanes of traffic each way, very large median between*) was 70, with a posted minimum speed of 40. That's barely more than half the speed limit, and there's still a fairly significant number of people who go below it. Even with on-ramps sometimes being a mile long, with plenty of chance to accelerate up to the speed of traffic, people would STOP at the end of the on-ramp. Seeing behavior like this finally helped me unders
Re:not really (Score:4, Insightful)
Ahh, this line betrays your true sentiment. If people can't avoid hitting you from behind when you are going 10 mph less than the speed limit, they don't belong on the road. It's not inherently dangerous to drive 30 in a 40 zone. The main danger is stupid folk getting pissed off and wanting to take it out on you.
Parent
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Considering the article talks about a game where fish hide stuff and you have to find the matching items, they are talking about memory and not reaction times.
So if get your older friends one of those mind/memory games for their next birthday.
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I'm not sure I'd be giving insurance breaks to someone who excels in a game about carjacking and that gives bonus points for spectacular wrecks.
=)
Seriously? Bonus points? In GTA? Are you with the media?
Maybe you were thinking of Burnout?
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I'm 25, and that's old in the gaming world
I recently read that the average age of a gamer is 35 years old [theesa.com]. You've got a ways to go yet!