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TrueMotion Game Controller a Step Up From Wii Remote
Posted by
Soulskill
on Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:13 AM
from the maybe-i-can-actually-putt-with-this-one dept.
from the maybe-i-can-actually-putt-with-this-one dept.
Harry McCracken writes "One of my top picks at the Consumer Electronics Show was Sixense's TrueMotion, a game-controller technology that resembles the Wii's remote, but uses an electromagnetic field to provide far more precision — it knows the exact location of the controller in 3D space and which way you're pointing it. (The Wiimote only knows which direction you're moving the controller.) TrueMotion-based remotes are due by Christmas, bundled with a PC game for under $100."
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Submission: This game controller makes the Wii look like a toy by Anonymous Coward
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I call Bullshit (Score:5, Funny)
According to the Heisenburg uncertainty principle its impossible to know both where an object is precisely, and where its heading.
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i'm going with Zeno's paradoxes and arguing that movement and therefore measurement of it is impossible,
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Newton beats you up with Leibniz sitting in the corner waiting for the tag team.
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You forgot to add "beyond a point of precision."
Turn in your physics nerd badge.
Re:I call Bullshit (Score:5, Funny)
That would be the joke.
Parent
Re:I call Bullshit (Score:4, Funny)
Maybe he knew exactly where the joke was heading, and thus couldn't locate it.
Parent
Inaccurate wiimote description (Score:5, Informative)
The statement "The Wiimote only knows which direction you're moving the controller" is not accurate, The Wiimote has a three axis accelerometer in addition to an infrared camera. The camera looks for two infrared LEDs on the "sensor bar" and depending on the distance between the LEDs and their position in the image from the camera the Wiiremote can fairly accurately determine where it is pointed on the screen.
Re:Inaccurate wiimote description (Score:4, Informative)
Additionally they're releasing the Motion Plus in the future that would allow accurate tracking of where the thing is pointed.
Parent
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I wouldn't say it's "fairly accurate" at all, it can only determine where it's pointing on screen relevant to the size of the sensor bar. So if you have an insanely large screen, your movements become much more pronounced.
It's also not very accurate in terms of motion. Move too quickly (and it's not that quickly at all) and it gets confused. This is why a lot of games only require tiny movements to make huge movements on screen, the only thing it knows are the velocity and the direction it's moving in.
Since
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I wouldn't say it's "fairly accurate" at all,
I agree with that statement. For what Nintendo does with it, though, this doesn't matter -- since we humans can see what our actions do on the screen, and we just act like complicated and squishy feedback controllers to make things behave as we want -- without thinking much about it.
Re:Inaccurate wiimote description (Score:5, Insightful)
That statement is accruate.
The wiimote knows that direction it is moving in wiimote space, but not world space. I can prove it to you. Face north, hold the wiimote directly out in front of you with the A button facing up, and move it horizontally to the right. The force will push the accelerometer x-axis to the left, so the wiimote knows it is moving right. Now turn your body 90 degrees so you are facing east. Move the wiimote again to the right. Just like before the wiimote knows it is moving to the right. However, relative to the room you are standing in, you just moved the wiimote in two completely different directions. The wiimote doesn't know that.
Parent
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Erm, thats obvious.
Acceleration is the second derivative of position. If you define a certain point as origin (say, a certain orientation stationary on your desk), then you have a 3 coordinate system in which X and Y are complete 0 and Z is 9.8ms^2.
Once we have reference point, we can calculate via acceleration on the 3 axes the velocity through space and orientation of said wiimote. However, the wiimote is only accurate to +/- 3g, which is very acceptable for a game console in such a small profile.
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Re:Inaccurate wiimote description (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Using the wiimote as a pointer (Score:2)
http://blog.dawnofthegeeks.com/2009/01/01/a-better-wiimote-pointer/ [dawnofthegeeks.com]
You have to use the accelerometer data and the IR data in order to figure out where the wiimote is located in 3D space and what direction it is pointing.
http://blog.dawnofthegeeks.com/2009/01/08/elmos-world-the-video-game/ [dawnofthegeeks.com]
Elmo's World: The Video Game is a homebrew product with 3 mini games demonstrating the use of the Wiimote as a pointing device.
The TrueMotion controller uses a lot more sophisticated materials and methods to get a more accu
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Yeah, summary is wrong, TFA is somewhat correct:
(benefits over wiimote) "it can tell exactly where it is and what angle youâ(TM)re holding it at."
Erm, ok. (Score:2)
Im sure it will work for Windows..
What kind of an API can we get for the Linux side? I mean, I can think of some rather cool ideas (like using one to trace a wall for input on a virtual wall and using the remote to draw on the v-wall).
And what's the power output like, along with frequency?
Soo may questions, so little information.
Useless, like all innovative PC hardware (Score:5, Interesting)
There is no economic sense in a game developer using this. Until Microsoft mandates that a bit of hardware is required for a "Genuine" windows machine, it will not factor in to any rational developers plans. And in this case its never going to happen, because it notionally excludes laptops, and no matter how painful it is in reality to play a mouse and keyboard game on a touchpad, its still "possible".
Anyway, MS want PC gaming dead just as much as everybody else now that X360 has been a relative success: any hardware innovation has to come from single source manufacturers, and in reality that means console manufacturers - and only Nintendo actually wants to even try - and Apple. All the clone makers just like to cower in a corner and pray for a behemoth like Intel, MS, or Google to innovate for them...
Its sad really, that the 80's with myriad incompatible silos of innovation seem so bright nowadays...
Re:Useless, like all innovative PC hardware (Score:5, Insightful)
For me at least, if PC gaming is dead, then windows is dead.
OSX and Linux are more than adequate for my Internet and business applications.
Parent
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For me at least, if PC gaming is dead, then windows is dead.
If PC gaming is dead, then indie gaming is dead. The vast majority of indie games are developed on and for PCs running Windows, Linux, *BSD, or Mac OS X, or they are developed on one of those for a phone.
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This maybe has a chance:
If they make the API open and give dev's a way to easily integrate.
If they collaborate with other device makers to settle on a common ground for functionality. This type of device, I am guessing will make it's way into PC mainstream at some point. One standard will come out on top. They need to make sure they help drive that standard.
If they allow other hardware makers to create devices that also work against that API so the developers aren't putting an effort into something that
Re:Useless, like all innovative PC hardware (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
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lol, I would so much hate an Apple console.
Price would be as a PS3 (high), hardware specs like a PSP (hit&miss on features) and the software would be like Wii sports (good idea and easy to pick up but missing out on depth.)
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Its a point about the politics of the thing - nothing to do with the practicality. MS will never require a piece of hardware that laptops can't have built in to be a "genuine" windows machine, and no game dev will spend their own money ( rather than a hardware manufacturers VC money ) on supporting a peripheral that is not required.
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MS will never require a piece of hardware that laptops can't have built in to be a "genuine" windows machine
Laptops can have at least a Wii-style sensor bar built in: just put a couple LEDs at the top corners of the LCD.
no game dev will spend their own money ( rather than a hardware manufacturers VC money ) on supporting a peripheral that is not required.
Activision and Konami [gamasutra.com] spent money on including a plastic guitar with the Guitar Hero games. Or would you count video game publishers as venture-capital-supported hardware manufacturers?
Does anyone think these things through? (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't know about you, but when I use my computer, I'm sitting at a desk with a keyboard and a mouse. I'm too close to my monitor to start pointing a remote at it.
I also can't imagine putting the remote down, use the keyboard, picking the remote again, repeat.
The Wiimote is a great idea because we can't really use a mouse when sitting in front of a TV, and crappy, small, over-touchy analog sticks on a gamepad is a stupid idea to begin with.
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It could be better, the motions that it wants aren't very good ergonomically for many. Pointing and rotating at the same time is something which is quite stressful on the wrist.
Finally! (Score:2)
Now people will be able to bump against walls of the room and fall out of windows as they try to duck the enemy fire.
If they provide Linux drivers (Score:2)
...or at least good specs, there will be lots of people developing for this thing. At least one, me :-)
If it's as bad as the movie... (Score:2, Insightful)
Perhaps I'm overly cynical of input technologies, but my take from the movie is that this is a *disaster*.
Start with the best configuration the company could manage for the demo, with in-house software, and an experienced user. The system is still laggy and periodically jerky. It has the same lack of feedback as the Wiimote, so you need similarly simple gestures to make it usable. Their one advantage is that the position sensor should be orientation-independent, whereas the Wiimote's camera needs to see the
Not new, just cheaper (Score:2)
This isn't new; it's just cheaper. Magnetic motion tracking devices [polhemus.com] have been around for two decades. I had a chance to try "virtual ping pong", like this thing does, on an Autodesk system demoed at the Hacker's Conference two decades ago. All the gloves-and-goggles systems use magnetic trackers like this. So do some of the tracking systems used for motion capture. If you've been to SIGGRAPH, you've probably seen a dancer up on a platform wired up with multiple sensors, driving an animated character o
Sounds like the expired Wacom patents (Score:2)
I could give a damn about a 3D game controller. But I would very much like to see cheap 3D input devices for animation and motion capture. Perhaps we'll first see this new Wii remote retrofitted to 3D software like Max. Can't happen soon enough!
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Latency (Score:2)
Latency seems to be pretty high, doesn't it?
Nintendo Announced this LAST YEAR (Score:2)
The Motion Plus is a small device that snaps into the bottom of the Wii remote to increase precision. Look for it soon to be packaged with Wii Sports Resort as well as a stand alone package.
It was demonstrated at E3 and looked very good.
+5 points for the idea, -500 for being months behind Nintendo.
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A Wii in the home will strengthen any family.
"The family that plays together...stays together."
"The family that Wiis together...is unhygienic."
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1. That's funny because my mom and dad are c
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Console gaming will never be more advanced then computer gaming and it shouldnt be.
Console gaming IS more advanced then computer gaming for the sheer ability to just plain work as advertised.
How many console games require a new graphic card, new processor, more memory, DirectX/drivers updates or OS upgrades?
You plug it in, turn it on, drop in the CD/DVD/cartridge and it works.
No half hour installations, needles restarts, patches that take several hours to download and install...
For actual gameplay - consoles have been kicking PC's ass for years now.
But, if you find fiddling around your PC
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Only game niches where PC still keeps the crowd entertained with greater efficiency are RTS, FPS and MMORPG games.
And like nobody plays those!
Only game niches where consoles beat PCs is local multiplayer games sitting in the couch and eventually RPGs.
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RPGs?? I don't so, maybe action RPGs like the japanese ones, but classic RPGs requires better interfaces than a console provides. The few RPGs, like Oblivion that have been on both Console and PC have had an absolutely horrible and useless user-interface.
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local multiplayer games sitting in the couch
As more and more people hook their PCs up to their TVs, I wonder if split-screen gaming will come to the PC? I wonder if, now, you could plug four wireless USB keyboards and mice (or game controllers?) into a PC, run four instances of, say, Quake 3 in windows (with each configured to use a different keyboard+mouse/gamepad for input), and play a multiplayer game through a server on localhost -- so everyone can play on your big HDTV from the couch? Obviously configuration would be at least a minor pain in
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Followup 2:
These guys [youtube.com] had the same idea. In the discussion beneath the video, they talk about using programs called "xpadder" and "autohotkey" to control both windows simultaneously. From the sounds of things, this is a promising approach, but people haven't invested a lot of time into figuring out these program's scripting languages in order to make this work.
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Followup 3:
It seems that xpaddr converts gamepad button presses to keystrokes, and autohotkey is used to send those keystrokes to the correct windows. These guys [epicgames.com] have gotten this much working. Yet although dual-mouse drivers [sourceforge.net] exist, I have not found people who have gotten two mice working independently in different instances of the game. That said, if you're content with using a gamepad instead of a mouse, this seems to work.
It'd be nice if this mishmash of different software could be bundled together as a
Re:Eh... (Score:5, Informative)
You plug it in, turn it on, drop in the CD/DVD/cartridge and it works.
No half hour installations, needles restarts, patches that take several hours to download and install...
You evidently haven't used a console recently, I've experienced all of the above with mine.
Not to mention the fact that my 4 month old 360's DVD drive decided to die recently. Now I have to piss about with Microsoft getting the console replaced. If that takes 2-3 weeks, I've lost 2-3 weeks of gaming. It usually takes me on average 30 mins to install a pc game&patch (10 hours a year), and a day to get a new DVD drive, I can live with that.
As far as needing to buy new hardware for new games? I buy a new gaming PC every 4 years, Halfway through my third cycle. I have *Never* needed to buy hardware to play a new game (Excluding of course, the rise of 3D Graphics-Once). I've had to turn settings down a couple of times, but never to the point where poor graphics interfere with gameplay ( In COD4 multiplayer I used to keep all settings low out of preference, not need)
I Spend £500 every 4 years. Even if every PC game I bought was available on the consoles I'd spend WAY more on the extra cost of console games (20 Games a year average, £10 extra cost due to console tax is £800 extra, not including the cost of the console)
I Spend a LOT more money per console in the long run than I do on my gaming PC, despite playing about the same of games on all of them.
Consoles are good, So are PCs. Your arguments alas, are not.
Parent
Re:Eh... (Score:5, Interesting)
How many console games require a new graphic card, new processor, more memory, DirectX/drivers updates or OS upgrades?
The NES, Sega Genesis, Neo Geo, N64, and probably other consoles I can't remember have required memory upgrades to play certain games. The Dreamcast, PS2, Original XBOX, XBOX 360, and PS3 have OS updates and game patches. I can't think of any console that offered a processor upgrade off the top of my head (the Jaguar maybe?).
No half hour installations, needles restarts, patches that take several hours to download and install.
Except the PS3 which requires large hard drive installs for many games. Or Last Remnant, which requires a hard drive install on the 360. I don't know about the giant patches you're talking about. You're probably talking about MMO client updates. There ARE no MMOs on the console except Final Fantasy XI which distributes such client updates on discs.
Only game niches where PC still keeps the crowd entertained with greater efficiency are RTS, FPS and MMORPG games.
The reality is more that genres change. PC gaming used to be dominated by point and click adventure games and flight sims. These genres didn't transition to the consoles, they faded in popularity. "Devil May Cry" style action-adventure games were big last generation, in this generation, not so much. And speaking of RPGs, console RPGs are widely incorporating elements from PC games, particularly MMOs (see FFXII) not the other way around.
Facts: PC game sales have been going up dramatically every year. Certain genres, and even certain games, have dominated PC gaming since it's inception. Those genres change over time.
People have been predicting the death of PC gaming since before it even started. It's not going to happen unless people stop using PCs or manufacturers refuse to make gaming hardware for PCs.
Parent
You Are Full of Shit (Score:2)
When was the last time you played on a Console. Go ahead, tell us?
You can buy upgrades for the 360.
You can install games onto a console.
You have to patch a lot of games out on consoles these days because of bugs.
PC gaming isn't anymore expensive than the consoles when they're brand new, and when they're brand new, they tend to have more features than their second and third generation counter parts (and so on).
The only thing you might have is gameplay, but that's only because certain types of games don't
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