Slashdot Log In
Spurned Chinese Publisher May Create WoW Knockoff
Posted by
Soulskill
on Tue May 05, 2009 11:43 PM
from the poor-losers dept.
from the poor-losers dept.
Earlier this year, Chinese game publisher The9 lost the rights to operate World of Warcraft in China. Now, it appears they are trying to solve their financial troubles by making World of Fight, which bears a suspicious resemblance to World of Warcraft. Others have noted similarities between World of Fight and Warhammer Online. Quoting Eurogamer: "According to the China Journal report, Chinese industry observers 'wonder whether The9 is launching a "shanzhai," or knock-off, World of Warcraft in hopes of keeping WOW players,' with iResearch analyst Zhao Xufeng noting that 'with the topic staying in the centre of attention, The9 can easily attract attention by doing this.'"
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
Poor ripoffs are nothing new (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, come on. We all know the fact that that most MMORPGs are practically clones of each other anyway...
Re:Poor ripoffs are nothing new (Score:5, Informative)
I bet they have some kind of actual code from Blizzard, be it server software, client software, whatever. And they likely have the source to compile on their machines. So whatever game they use will probably be a direct clone of WoW.
I bet their first expansion will be Flaming Crusades, and their second will be Wrath of the Zombie king.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
I bet they have some kind of actual code from Blizzard,
I bet you don't have any proof of your accusations.
You'r no better than SCO....
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
I bet their first expansion will be Flaming Crusades, and their second will be Wrath of the Zombie king.
You should have done some research [slashdot.org] before coming up with the names.
Re: (Score:2)
You make it sound like these guys [wikipedia.org] have gotten into the game business.
Re: (Score:2)
Buh-bye gold farmers! (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
This will not affect them at all. The version which was distributed by The9 was China only. The accounts and items/gold associated with them were not transferable to the US, EU, etc. servers.
The gold sellers always have and still will continue to play other versions of the game NOT distributed by The9 in order to water down the in-game economies in these other regions. So they're most likely pointing and laughing at The9. The gold sellers don't care.
Dethroning WoW (Score:5, Interesting)
A lot of people have made the observation that it's basically impossible to raise the capital and perform the beta testing required to dethrone WoW. But all these factors aren't valid in China. Especially with their copyright laws. And the source code of WoW's servers...
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Where'd you get the idea they have the WoW server source code?
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
they did chinese language localization for WoW. they ran WoW servers on chinese hardware. they censored some parts of the story for WoW. they sent chinese programmers to the usa to custom fit parts of the story to chinese audiences. they were paid a shitload of money to partner on WoW. what makes you think they dont ?
Re:Dethroning WoW (Score:5, Insightful)
they did chinese language localization for WoW
Localization that requires source code is bad localization.
they censored some parts of the story for WoW
Censors don't need to see the source.
they sent chinese programmers to the usa to custom fit parts of the story to chinese audiences
Story design that requires source code is bad story design.
Every US corporation that isn't led by total idiots has figured out that if you make your widget in China, six months from now you're going to be competing against the factories you outsourced to. So if you don't want to be shot with your own pistol, you'd best keep your trade secrets out of China.
Either that, or make a product with a 6-month lifetime. Blizzard, as it happens, does both. Paranoid control over IP, *plus* new expansions which render stolen IP obsolete.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
This is all especially funny considering the fact that WoW is ultimately a knockoff itself.
Nevermind the "pirates". You need to worry about the competing game studios.
Re: (Score:2)
I think many people have things the other way around.
Content is king. Creating an alternative engine for existing artwork (and likely in WoW's case, scripted content) is a lot easier than creating new artwork from scratch for an existing engine.
Even if they don't have server/client engine source, the sorts of things The9 was doing would require them to have the *content* and that's far more important than the engine source most likely.
Re:Dethroning WoW (Score:4, Insightful)
This all assumes that the coders:
1. Knew what good design was.
2. Weren't told to ship ASAP and screw 'design'.
We are talking about Blizzard here, not a random software house.
they are famous for shipping late because they weren't happy enough with it yet.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Not to denigrate their programmers' skills, but in Blizzard's case the "shipping late because they're not happy with it" thing generally refers to gameplay, not necessarily to the portability or maintainability or extensibility or whatever of their code.
Granted, not having easily extensible code for an MMO would be pretty stupid, and I'm pretty sure Blizzard is not stupid.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Mainly because you wouldn't need any source code to do any of the localization. Not to say they wouldn't have access to development tools built for WoW or that they wouldn't have a very good idea how the game was put together internally.
They might even be able to take the WoW engine and mod it heavily into a new game... but the core would still but the same under all of those changes. I doubt they could even change game mechanics. But maybe they don't want to... It would look like a new game but have the
Re: (Score:2)
what makes you think they dont ?
That they aren't Blizzard Entertainment?
None of what you mentioned need source code, and would just introduce huge risks.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
A lot of people have made the observation that it's basically impossible to raise the capital and perform the beta testing required to dethrone WoW.
Now Blizzard might have more capital than most; but I wouldn't underestimate the resources of Bioware and their partnership with LucasArts. Given speculating about how good Star wars - Old Republic will be is pure conjecture at this point; though if anyone is going to "dethrone" wow in any near future I reckon Bioware is as likely a candidate as any.
Re: (Score:2)
But first, someone would have to make a Star Wars game that doesn't suck, which hasn't been done since XvT. I say this as someone who spends many hours playing SW:BF II in spite of its many warts and limited play just because you get to do so much killin' and the play control is as good as it gets for a console FPS. Sure beats the living fuck out of Halo (incl. 2) in that regard.
Re: (Score:2)
But all these factors aren't valid in China. Especially with their copyright laws. And the source code of WoW's servers...
Either they have seen the source code and may violate copyright laws (unlikely),
OR the haven't so all that cloning would violate are software patents (if blizzard even had any) which aren't valid many places outside the US!
A terrible idea (Score:5, Interesting)
This is about the worst idea a Chinese firm could have. It's one thing to knock off a physical good where you have access to the factory that makes the goods, and the manufacturing process is well understood. See knockoff chinese cars, watches, etc.
But, World of Warcraft is a gigantic software application. It probably has as many or more lines of code as any computer game ever created. It's been through years of testing and refinement, and has god knows how many hours invested into the artwork and graphics.
Recreating all that from scratch, even if you have a working example to clone, is a huge financial blunder and a waste of resources.
Note : I don't play WoW. My statements about it's internal complexity are based upon the fact that an MMORPG project is the biggest game project there is, with 5+ million lines of code. And WoW has a stupendously large budget, given the fact that the game charges customers over a billion dollars in subscription fees per year.
That's more money than any Hollywood movie has ever taken in.
One wonders what Blizzard does with it's cut of the revenue : in theory, they could use that money to create a WoW sequel that would be the most technically complex game ever made, with the best graphics and most sophisticated AI ever put in a computer game.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Remember that Chinese programmers can be hired for less than $400/month. The labor-hours part of your argument becomes worth a lot less after this factor is added in. And it doesn't have to be 100% as good as the real thing to steal a significant part of the customer base if priced accordingly.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Having any given number of programmers doesn't result in a good product; it is assumed there is proper project management in place if this copycat effort is a legitimate threat. Otherwise nevermind the entire article.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
One wonders what Blizzard does with it's cut of the revenue : in theory, they could use that money to create a WoW sequel that would be the most technically complex game ever made, with the best graphics and most sophisticated AI ever put in a computer game.
Or they could — and this is entirely blue-sky thinking, mind you — use said revenue to develop a theoretical sequel to StarCraft, an obscure RTS they made a few years back.
And, unbeknown to many, Blizzard, back when they were a plucky, unknown company called "Blizzard Entertainment", put together a charming, though largely forgotten, duo of games under the "Diablo" name. Now, I know there's little chance you've heard of them (not many have), but from what I understand, they were sort of dungeon
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What you're saying is true. But do keep in mind that if everyone always did the reasonable, rational thing, we'd not get a lot of the progress we've made over time. For example, I could take what you wrote above, and substitute, say, OS/360 [wikipedia.org] in there:
Never rewrite from scratch. Never. (Score:2)
> Blizzard ... could use that money to create a WoW sequel that would be the most technically complex game ever made, with the best graphics and most sophisticated AI ever put in a computer game.
As Joel Spolsky points out, the worst mistake a software company can make is to rewrite software from scratch. There used to be argument that new code was better code because the programmers were building on what they learned from their first version. But in practice, old code is *tested* *working* code, far supe
Re:A terrible idea (Score:5, Insightful)
I doubt that WoW is particularly huge based on lined of code. The quests basically all come from 1 template, the AI is non-existent and the whole thing is based on repetition. When playing, I get the feeling they're aiming at creating as much content as possible with as little coding as possible. Keeps the bugs down and speeds up content creation.
Same goes for the art too, actually. They're using plenty of color swaps and similar recycling methods.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
"the AI is non-existent"
How about you try programming pathfinding around multiple corners (it's many orders of magnitude harder than simple homing), a threat system capable of handling hundreds of enemies and a half dozen boss abilities? Just because it's not the strategic thinking chess-playing type of AI does not mean it's anywhere near easy.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't think WOW has any spectacular code in it, it's all about the game design, story, tools and polish. That's what makes knock offs appealing, the code is cheap compared to other aspects of the game project. Having example ready and being satisfied with minimal changes and feature reductions will make whole thing orders of magnitude easier.
When I was selling the game projects myself it was always hard to explain the customers that source code is not the most valuable asset. We needed to be able to reuse
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not sure that the kind of things you can determine from an extremely detailed familiarity with the system behavior are so worthless.
The biggest expense in any really complicated project is either (a) effort expended on things you don't need or (b) effort expended to get things you overlooked done by yesterday. Having a punch list containing exactly the things that need to be done is a huge money saver. I've never played WoW, but I doubt there's anything particularly special about the AI or physics sim
"World of Fight" (Score:3, Funny)
Re:"World of Fight" (Score:4, Funny)
What, you mean like Harry Potter and Leopard-Walk-Up-to-Dragon?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_and_Leopard-Walk-Up-to-Dragon#Unauthorised_Chinese_Harry_Potter_books [wikipedia.org]
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Sucks to be Blizzard... (Score:2)
... 'cause given the current state of copyright law in China, I'm pretty sure the Chinese government/legal system ain't gonna give a damn.
Re: (Score:2)
The Chinese interpretation of copyright is "you have the right to copy"...
Re: (Score:2)
How is cloning software a violation of copyright? or should OO.o developers be sued for violating ms copyright on producing an office suite that works with ms docs?
OpenOffice.org vs. KC Munchkin (Score:4, Informative)
How is cloning software a violation of copyright? or should OO.o developers be sued for violating ms copyright on producing an office suite that works with ms docs?
At least under United States law, there's a difference. Functional software like OpenOffice.org appears to fall cleanly under Lotus v. Borland. For entertainment works, on the other hand, U.S. precedents are mixed: KC Munchkin for Odyssey 2 [wikipedia.org] (clone of Namco's Pac-Man) was ruled infringing, but Data East's Fighter's History (clone of Capcom's Street Fighter II) wasn't. And I expect U.S. law to come into play once The9 tries to attract U.S. customers.
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
The Chinese spot fakes better than anyone (Score:4, Funny)
and those kids won't play a fake WoW.
Re:The Chinese spot fakes better than anyone (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
What the...? (Score:3, Funny)
Ooh! (Score:5, Funny)
* The World of Fight currency
Re: (Score:2)
That sounds like as much fun as if everything you touch turns to Glod [lspace.org].
How is this news? (Score:3, Funny)
This just in, yet another MMO mimicking WoW in the making. Film at 11.
Another 'WoW Killer' in the works? (Score:3, Interesting)
The first rule... (Score:2)
The first rule of World of Fight is that nobody talks about World of Fight.
Re: (Score:2)