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Apple Racks Up the Gaming Patents
Posted by
Soulskill
on Wed May 06, 2009 10:07 AM
from the one-button-controllers dept.
from the one-button-controllers dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Evidence has been growing that Apple is developing a new gaming console. Now, there are some possible details about how a combined media/game console might work, based on patent applications filed by Apple in late 2007 and early 2008. Here is some of what we can look for: having your personal music integrated into a title, a 'natural' gesture multitouch interface, and a single online store that sells games, media, and video."
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Submission: Apple Racks Up the Gaming Patents by Anonymous Coward
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Cause someone will bring this up: (Score:5, Insightful)
As much as I dislike their products, if Apple goes after the Wii with stong iTunes and iPhone/Pod integration, as a gaming and convergence device, they could hurt Nintendo. The saturated market isn't an issue when you can lower the standard of definition and quadruple the market space (e.g. the "smartphone" market).
They will probably have to kill Apple TV, though.
On the contrary, AppleTV would be core (Score:4, Interesting)
They will probably have to kill Apple TV, though.
To me it seems pretty clear what they want is to dominate casual gaming the way they are starting to in the handheld space (yes I know they are still a long ways behind Nintendo, but there are a LOT of games targeting the iPhone/Touch now).
In order to do that all that is needed is to add some light gaming abilities and controls to the AppleTV. Perhaps it would not look much like what they have today, but I see AppleTV being the core from which they extend into gaming.
I never did think they would do a console before as I thought it made no sense, but seeing as how almost all the games I purchase on consoles now are online smaller games I can see it working. With other consoles still focusing on larger games as a focus Apple could really sweep up the smaller game category. Heck, all they'd have to do is court all of the indie game competition winners going back a few years and they'd have a hell of a system.
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Re:On the contrary, AppleTV would be core (Score:4, Interesting)
Only thing I'd add to this wish list is the ability to put a DVD in an Apple TV and have it ripped to iTunes automatically.
I spent all last summer ripping 300+ DVD's for use on my Apple TV. I have it tethered to a first gen MacMini with an external 1TB drive for all this.
If I was to start on this project today, I'd bypass the Apple TV and just get a MacMini. Would be easy enough to script Handbrake and iTunes to do this.
Maybe they'll come up with a MacMiniAVG for all this?
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Re:Apple does not say it is good, say it is mandat (Score:3, Informative)
"When asked during the EMI conference call about the potential of lifting DRM from video, Jobs said: "Video is pretty different from music right now because the video industry does not distribute 90 percent of their content DRM free. Never has. So I think they are in a pretty different situation and I wouldn't hold it to a parallel at all."
http://pcworld.about.com/od/copyright/Jobs-unlikely-to-push-for-lift.htm [about.com]
So he did not say it is"good" for movies, but this quote is almost certainly what the GP is thinki
one way to get more games written... (Score:5, Interesting)
You should definitely read this [joystiq.com] then. The rumor on the street is that Apple might buy EA. Now, I know better than to listen to these types of rumors, but if that did happen, they would suddenly have a lot of games being written for them. Who knows if this is true or not, but it is makes a hell of a lot more sense than Apple buying Twitter of all things.
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Re: (Score:2)
Somehow I don't think killing the Apple TV will be too hard, or even painful.
Re:Cause someone will bring this up: (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with Apple entering that market: price. One of Nintendo's biggest selling points is their price. If Apple continues with their buy-in-club pricing mentality (and we have no reason to believe that they won't), then I highly doubt Nintendo has much to worry about.
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Re:Cause someone will bring this up: (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, since iPhone sales(4M) are running at about 1/3 of DS sales(12M), I'd say they have a lot to worry about.
http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Nintendo_DS [wikia.com]
iPod Touch sales add a bit more - the other 2/3 of DS sales
~40M iGamingPlatforms.
http://www.macnn.com/articles/09/04/22/apple.ipod.sales/ [macnn.com]
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Re:Cause someone will bring this up: (Score:4, Insightful)
You guys are about to learn what I learned 10 years ago: Discrete devices work best. A dedicated gaming platform will have better performance, better form factor, and better battery life than a device that's a million things and also a gaming platform. A dedicated music device will have better form factor and better battery life than a device that's a million things and also a music device. A dedicated phone will have better form factor and better battery life than something that's a million things and a phone.
And you know what? When my DS is dead, I'll still be able to call a taxi, and I'll still have 11 hours of music left on my iPod.
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You are about to learn a more valuable lesson (Score:4, Insightful)
You guys are about to learn what I learned 10 years ago: Discrete devices work best.
That is true, and that is what geeks prefer. I preferred that myself once.
But you are soon to learn a more powerful truth. That the general populace prefers convergence when it works. "Normal" people (and I use that term neutrally, not implying anything wrong with being abnormal!) do not want to have two or three devices to charge if possible. These people will happily sacrifice a few things to carry less and not become The Batman.
The cycle is that you have a dedicated device until the general devices get powerful enough to absorb the specific.
This is true of course primarily in the mobile space, for fixed location devices I think people will generally either prefer or have neutral preferences on quality devices that do one thing well (like using a receiver vs. having an all-in-one entertainment system). But when carrying stuff space and weight are all premiums that people will sacrifice a lot to improve - not just true in electronics ether, just look at hiking gear...
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Re:Cause someone will bring this up: (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Cause someone will bring this up: (Score:5, Interesting)
One of the most underutilized - but most fun - options on the original Xbox was the ability of certain games (especially the Tony Hawk series) to replace the default "in-game" music with music ripped from CD's. Make a custom CD with your own chosen playlist, drop it on the box, and boom, you had a completely different experience. I couldn't stand half of the crap-rap they put in, for instance, but I could tell it "never play" those songs, and add in, say, a bunch of Frank Sinatra to the list, or pretty much anything else I decided to put in.
I wish more games had that option. It's one thing if you have a cutscene with dedicated music or something, but something else for sports games or games that wind up trying to have a "top 40s" playlist stuck in as an afterthought. I know I, personally, get bored with games quicker if I don't like the music that's being blared.
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Re:Cause someone will bring this up: (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually... one thing really cool about the Xbox 360 is that if you are playing your own music (either from the hard disk, from a PC via Media Center, or from an MP3 player connected via USB) it will override the soundtrack of whatever game you are playing. But you still get all of the other game sounds (voices, sound effects, etc.).
Without that feature, I think 'Burnout: Paradise' would have driven me insane.
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Re:Cause someone will bring this up: (Score:5, Funny)
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You'd be wrong (Score:3, Interesting)
As the other poster noted, the sales are actually better than you'd expect for a niche product.
But the thing you are not considering is that many people use mac minis as home theater systems. They are not technically counted as "AppleTV" units but it has the same effect - people buy a lot of media from iTunes, and many use the same FrontRow software (though many others use things like Boxee).
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I was wanting to use a mac mini, as a front end to my MythTV system, but, from what I understand, they aren't powerful enough to play full HD content?
I can play 1080p content on my original Intel Mac mini - using a faster external HD is the key (as is using VLC for playback).
The newer mac minis are more than fast enough, even just using Quicktime (and I think the internal drive is faster now, but still just a laptop drive so an external FW800 drive would make a good addition)..
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Thought we already had an Apple console... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Thought we already had an Apple console... (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Thought we already had an Apple console... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sigh... in the not-so-distant past, when the Slashdot community was oriented around open vs. proprietary discussions, Microsoft and Apple very much WAS considered to occupy the same basic space.
These days Slashdot is all about piracy, fads and rumors in social networking sites, and discussions about marketing. The occasional GPL vs. BSD/MIT/Apache flamewar still sprouts up, but mostly it's just fanboys praising or bad-mouthing various shiny objects on the basis of how "sexy" they are.
Apple sells "better" stuff, Microsoft sells "more" stuff. Other than that, yeah... they are pretty much the same thing.
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Re:Thought we already had an Apple console... (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, you can also play your own music in games on your Xbox, and Xbox Live has an online store for games and videos. Other than a multi-touch interface (Nintendo DS's turf), what is Apple doing new besides combining these and putting their logo on it?
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Xbox 361 (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Obviously, you haven't coded for the iPhone...
You can use C++! The user-interface must be programmed with Objective C.
Assuming that you just want an OpenGL view where you can throw in your game graphics, you just need to set up an App delegate, a view controller and a view. One of the standard templates gives you everything you need on the objective C side.
So if you want to do OpenGL and C++ on the iPhone just start!
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Obj-C, btw, isn't too hard to pick up. It only adds one major syntactical feat
Model, view, and controller (Score:3, Informative)
And they want all games ported to Objective-C. For fuck's sake Apple, let us use C++ on the iPhone like a good computer company.
First, separate your game into model, view, and controller components [wikipedia.org]. Physics, AI, and map decoding go in the model so that they're identical across platforms, and anything specific to the iPod Touch goes in the view or controller. There exist bindings between Objective-C and C++ [wikipedia.org], and as an AC pointed out [slashdot.org], only part of the view and controller need to be written in Objective-C.
XNA on Xbox 360, on the other hand, needs games to be ported to the CLR. At first glance, this would be a deeper rewrite, as I've
Re:Model, view, and controller (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not that simple. The view is pretty complex in games. The controller has to include networking, file i/o, actually controller input and mapping to a unique internal method.
Nice if true, but it's not. Different chipsets (x64, x86 and PowerPC) all require tweaks to the underlying math libraries to optimize performance. Sometimes those tweaks propogate up.
Without knowing exactly the dividing line, I can say that those components are pretty complicated. So why should we have to use Objective-C at all? Why should I have to have some other language anywhere in my build?
XNA is optional. Objective-C is manditory.
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Integrating your personal music into the game? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like something the 360 does right now.
Maybe the patent covers a system whereby you're forced to pay the console maker for the music you want to integrate.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
I've always been happy to just play the stereo while I'm gaming.
Re: (Score:2)
I've always been happy to just play the stereo while I'm gaming.
That would work if you can turn off the game's music, and if you can set up your stereo to mix the Xbox 360 and music source so that you don't miss world cues that the game presents through sound effects. I doubt that the median console owner can figure out the latter.
Simpler Suggestion (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
There's also rumors about a Kindle style device. Think of a full color Kindle with the features of the iPhone.
Does it even need new hardware? (Score:5, Insightful)
Uhhh... (Score:2)
iPhone? (Score:2)
"having your personal music integrated into a title, a 'natural' gesture multitouch interface, and a single online store that sells games, media, and video.""
sure sounds like the iPhone/iPod touch with the iTunes Store, doesn't it?
I doubt that they will make a "Apple iWii"
Without buttons its worthless (Score:3)
While things work fine for the casual market, for deeper and more complex games that the hardcore crowd will actually want they are going to have to add some buttons. Though its great not having a stylus to loose, the type of screen the current iPhone and Touch use is simply not accurate enough for heavy gaming. The gyros are nice but games that use them are mostly a one trick pony so far. I know Apple is all about slick and elegant but practical would do them alot of good. I'd love to see the iPhone/Touch as a viable gaming platfom, its specs are better than any handheld on the market but its interface cripples it.
Re: (Score:2)
Except that the hardcore gaming market is tiny compared to the casual gaming market. So if you want to, you know, actually earn money instead of bragging rights, this isn't much of an issue.
Doing the math that's a pretty good deal (Score:2)
Yes but except for few exceptions like Wii Fit, casual gaming market is heavily fractured.
That's a developer issue, not a hardware issue...
And you'll have to sell 3-5 copies of it to match the sale of a 1 hardcore game.
You're only talking price per copy, but you ignore you must also spend about 100x the initial amount of money for graphics and level design in any "hardcore" game today.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm just sayin'.
The Laptop Wheel is a Reality (Score:2, Funny)
Games != Windows :-D (Score:3, Interesting)
Handhelds only (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, I was browsing the AppStore last night and noticed a couple of games that were previously only on the Nintendo DS (Cooking Mama being one). The graphics/gameplay were identical if not better.
Audiosurf? (Score:2)
Mind Blowing! (Score:2)
Your music could get integrated into the game environment.
It would totally rock to play games incorporating music by my favorite artists like Yasunori Mitsuda, Koji Kondo, and Nobuo Uematsu!
No Pippin 2.0 (Score:3, Insightful)
After the disaster that was Pippin, I very much doubt that Apple will be going into that business again. Steve Jobs' animosity toward computer gaming is well-documented, and it is unlikely that he would about-face on something like this, as he would have to have done back when this project started.
More likely, this is an extension of the Apple TV into a more full-fledged set-top PC. Jobs hates games, but he's learned the hard way that games sell computers, so of course he's going to have Apple put some thought into the interface. But this will not be marketed as a game console, and ultimately it will not compete with game consoles.
On the other hand, it's good to see that they're leaning towards Wiimote-like gesture-based control as opposed to 1:1 motion mapping. It's the best of both worlds: the abstraction of buttons alongside the immersion of motion.
Apple looking at EA? (Score:5, Interesting)
I was about to dismiss it as unsubstantiated speculation, but I just saw an article claiming that Apple may want to acquire EA [tgdaily.com]. That would fit in VERY nicely with designing their own game console, which I imagine would replace AppleTV.
Wow. Apple buying Twitter would be silly, but Apple buying EA could totally change the landscape.
It's a matter of promotion (Score:2)
I don't see how you make the leap to iGameboy.
Apple signs exclusivity deals for a few major video game publishers' games that it thinks are good enough to be system sellers for the iPod Touch. Then Apple enters into a co-promotion agreement with the publishers that includes "only on iPhone and iPod Touch" branding in advertisements, just like some DS games' commercials say "only on DS".
Re: (Score:2)
Nintendo already does most of this. Combination game console, picture sharing, voice communication with anyone in the world, surf the net, buy stuff from their online store, everything organized in "channels", a natural interface that supports gestures, and (until the last update, which removed mp3 support) you could play your own music for some titles. So - Wii combined game/media/internet console FTW.
Apple isn't a game company.
Community Games on Xbox 360 (Score:5, Informative)
Something seems incredibly interesting about the prospect of a game console with an iPhone like app/game store. I could definitely see myself buying one if they do come out, especially if I could easily program my own games for it.
Given that the app store for the iPod Touch uses almost the same business model as the "Community Games" store for the Xbox 360, I'd recommend that you buy an Xbox 360. Like the iPod Touch, the Xbox 360 needs a specific host operating system (Windows) to run the developer tools, and running your code on the console requires a $100/year developer certificate.
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Re:Online store...that's original. (Score:4, Funny)
It is original because now Apple is doing it.
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