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Duke Nukem For Never

Posted by samzenpus on Thu May 07, 2009 02:33 AM
from the let-god-sort-'em-out dept.
PLSQL Guy writes "Duke Nukem Forever developer 3D Realms is shutting down, according to Shacknews. They cite 'a reliable source close to the company,' who said the developer is finished and employees have already been let go. It looks like all of the Duke Nukem Forever jokes are turning into reality; DNF might turn out to be the ultimate vaporware after all." 3D Realms' webmaster, Joe Siegler, confirmed the closing, saying that he didn't know about it even a day beforehand. Apogee and Deep Silver, who are working on a different set of Duke Nukem games (referred to as the Duke Nukem Trilogy) say they are not affected by the problems at 3D Realms.
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Related Stories

[+] Duke Nukem Forever Gameplay Footage Leaked 189 comments
Tjeerd writes, "It seems that while 3D Realms is dead, some new footage has been leaked of Duke Nukem Forever." 3D Realms posted a brief good-bye to their website, and two of the developers have hosted screenshots and concept art from DNF on their personal blogs. Also, for those who haven't seen it yet, there's an entertaining list of things that have happened during DNF's development cycle.
[+] 3D Realms Sued Over Failed Duke Nukem Forever Plans 180 comments
Take-Two Interactive has now sued 3D Realms over the cancellation of Duke Nukem Forever . Take-Two did not provide continuous funding for the game, but they did pay $12 million for the publishing rights to the game. A Bloomberg report quotes Take-Two's complaint as saying that 3D Realms "continually delayed the completion date" and "repeatedly assured Take-Two and the video-gaming community that it was diligently working toward competing development of the PC Version" of the game. (The complaint refers to 3D Realms as part of Apogee Software, Ltd., not to be confused with Apogee Software, LLC, the publisher behind the still-forthcoming Duke Nukem Trilogy.)
[+] The Nuking of Duke Nukem 325 comments
Rick Bentley writes with more on the story behind the meltdown of Duke Nukem Forever, the game that will now live on only as a cautionary tale: "Although the shutdown was previously reported on Slashdot, this new Wired article goes in-depth behind the scenes to paint a picture of a mushroom cloud-sized implosion. Developers spending a decade in a career holding pattern for below market salary with 'profit sharing' incentives, no real project deadlines, a motion capture room apparently used to capture the motion of strippers (the new game was to take place in a strip club, owned by Duke, that gets attacked by aliens), and countless crestfallen fans. *Sniff*, I would have played that game."
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  • RIP DNF (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anenome (1250374) on Thursday May 07 2009, @02:35AM (#27856517) Homepage

    There've been calls to open-source the game. Take-Two still owns the publishing rights on the title, and apparently never had an agreement to support development with funds--DNF was essentially privately funded.

    DNF is now the gold-standard for vapor-ware. How much money did they spend, I wonder, producing nothing?

    • Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 07 2009, @02:42AM (#27856561)

      There've been calls to open-source the game.

      Why ? There is already better open source vaporware - Hurd. Though I must admit that DNF has a much cooler mascot with Duke.
      Perhaps Duke can become the mascot of Hurd now ?
      He is free... for other vaporware.

    • Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Idaho (12907) on Thursday May 07 2009, @02:46AM (#27856583)

      DNF is now the gold-standard for vapor-ware. How much money did they spend, I wonder, producing nothing?

      With such an acronym as the abbreviated name of the game, who could have expected anything less, to be honest? Maybe it was just a practical joke all along!

    • by TiggertheMad (556308) on Thursday May 07 2009, @03:01AM (#27856665) Homepage Journal
      ...I would kill to have an ex-employee give a tell all interview about what the hell was going on for the last ten years or so. If any game media people are out there, I will gladly click through thirty pages of crappy advertising to read this one.

      Rampant egos? Ineptness? Fraud? There has to be some juicy tidbits that will come put of the tale...
      • by SuperCharlie (1068072) on Thursday May 07 2009, @06:30AM (#27857731)
        I was one of those obsessed followers for the first 3-4 years after DN3D until I came up with what *I* figured happened. Hell, I even bought all the action figures...

        I believe they made a name with Duke 3D and had good intentions of making a sequel..at first. Then along came licensing rights. Easy money. Then came some noteable side-tracks. Max Payne for one. Then came some more licensing. Then it really didn't make sense to work that hard any more. The money (anyone with a buck to buy licensing) just called on the phone, the lawyers did their work, and the money showed up in the bank.

        Here is some of what we got instead of DNF..

        Duke Nukem 64
        Duke Nukem - Game Boy Color
        Duke Nukem - Land of the Babes
        Duke Nukem - Manhattan Project
        Duke Nukem - Time to Kill
        Duke Nukem - Total Meltdown
        Duke Nukem - Zero Hour
        Duke Nukem Advance
        Duke Nukem II
        Duke Nukem Mobile

        They milked it for over 10 years. I am surprised they actually "called it off" and didn't just let it fade away.

        The shame here is the magnificent property that was lazily shit off.
        • by irinotecan (1118569) on Thursday May 07 2009, @09:32AM (#27859741) Homepage
          My take is slightly different: I believe they were afraid to fail. Given what little we do know about the endless delays -- that they switched the basic engine from Quake II to Unreal to Unreal Tournament to Quake III to one being built solely in-house, and had to restart level work every time, I believe that this was driven by the fear that the game would be a failure. Duke 3D was a smash it. It put them on the map. And they promised to themselves and their fans that DNF would be even better. So, they couldn't stand the thought of it possibly being a flop; it had to be a #1 bestseller, and every game reviewer had to be able to rant and rave at how much more amazing it was over D3D or any other FPS for that matter. And every year that passed, and every time they got more and more ridiculed at its "vaporware" status, it hardened their resolve that the game must not be a failure, or even mediocre, under any circumstance whatsoever. And that mentality paralyzed them, and caused them to essentially re-write and re-write the game, until the weight of it all finally caused them to collapse
    • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 07 2009, @03:14AM (#27856743)

      I always thought Guns 'n' Roses was DNF's main competition in the Vaporware Wars Of 1994-2009. :)

      I honestly never thought Axl would ship his album first for the win, but, here we are.

    • Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Funny)

      by jonaskoelker (922170) <(jonaskoelker) (at) (gnu.org)> on Thursday May 07 2009, @04:52AM (#27857275) Homepage

      I would like to reiterate http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1220783&cid=27813603 [slashdot.org]

      The vapor that I long for most
      The Duke, the Wolf*,
      And the Starcraft: Ghost

      They saw their code build
      So they'd boast

      The day
      Their sche-----dule died.

      And Duke was saying:
      (Chorus)
      bye, bye
      Eat some shit and then die

      ... apparently, writing code isn't as easy as (American) Pie :)

      • Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 07 2009, @04:09AM (#27857045)

        Or maybe the reason for the shutdown is that they couldn't deliver a product after at least 11 years of development.

          • Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Insightful)

            by thetoadwarrior (1268702) on Thursday May 07 2009, @06:05AM (#27857611) Homepage
            Treating your employees decently is not what killed 3DR. Let's not pretend that they were some nice group of nice guys that just can't make it in this era.

            It was poor management that ruined them. Whether a company treats employees well or not poor management can kill a company.
          • Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Insightful)

            by moranar (632206) on Thursday May 07 2009, @06:34AM (#27857747) Homepage Journal

            Ahem, actually, there might be a fine line between 'respecting employees and being cool' and 'taking eleven year to finish a program'.

            Sorry, no, it's a line the size of a road.

      • Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Funny)

        by Froboz23 (690392) on Thursday May 07 2009, @04:13AM (#27857071)
        This has got me all nostalgic, so I loaded up Duke Nukem 3D to pay my last respects. But when I try to run it, I keep getting this message:

        SecureROM Activation Failed: Could not connect to the 3drealms activation server.

        What does it mean??
      • Re:RIP DNF (Score:5, Interesting)

        by thetoadwarrior (1268702) on Thursday May 07 2009, @06:01AM (#27857601) Homepage

        If you read their site [3drealms.com] you'll see they seemed to do lots of fun stuff along the years.

        Of course they've been having fun. They've been playing around for over a decade.

        What'll be interesting is to find out how true this is.
        http://www.shacknews.com/laryn.x?story=58519 [shacknews.com]

        By: mourningstar Crosspost from SA:

        Channel_F, a previous employee of 3DR, posted some interesting info:

        In my best interest, I'm going to be somewhat candid for now. I will, however, elaborate a bit on some things:

        The 2001 trailer was 100% scripted cinematic, and not actual gameplay. They built specific demo maps just to record video from to make a trailer. Everything you see in that trailer was phony.

        The typical work flow there went something like this: Designer would be assigned a task (build a new map, rebuild an old map, polish a bit of a map, etc.). Designer would work on said task for two, three weeks, a month, all the while lower management would be looking over it and making sure it was going in a "good general direction." Designer would move on to another task. A month or two later upper management would finally look at the work and say, "It's all wrong, do it again." Rinse, repeat.

        Entire maps would be done from the ground up, almost to beta quality, and then thrown out simply because no one would make decisions early on in the process. (Read up on Valve's 'orange box' method of design -- that's how you make games)

        Another example of WTF is the fact that there was one part of one map that was being worked on before I started working there. Nineteen months later and the same designer was still working on the same part of that same map... I'm not blaming the designer, it wasn't his fault.

        I think the biggest problem that the company had in general is being self-funded. When you're a developer working directly with a publisher and you have milestones to meet it's a whole different ballgame. If you don't meet those milestones, you don't get any money. That right there will keep your project on schedule. If, however, you're funding it yourself, you don't really have anyone to answer to except yourself and you can quickly lose sight of just how much money is going out the door.

  • Damn (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 07 2009, @02:36AM (#27856519)

    Sounds like they are all outta gum

  • About time (Score:5, Interesting)

    by something_wicked_thi (918168) on Thursday May 07 2009, @02:36AM (#27856523)

    I've been kind of expecting/hoping for this for some time. Ever since the economy got so bad, I figured we might come to this. I'm actually amazed this didn't have before. You can't go that long with such incompetent management of a project and expect to be allowed to keep going, especially when you can't even be bothered to produce an actual time estimate for completion anymore except "When it's done".

    • by drfool (1535489) on Thursday May 07 2009, @02:39AM (#27856549)
      yeah, well you can go to hell. Thank God Duke Nukem Forever was never released. If they had "competent managers" as you call them, we probably would have had a laughable pile of shit for an FPS released under the title that will forever have soiled Duke's reputation, which I foresee happening under Take-Two.
      • Re:About time (Score:5, Insightful)

        by phoenix321 (734987) * on Thursday May 07 2009, @03:00AM (#27856657)

        Competent managers are not required to have a product out the door in, what?, 15 years? Other companies without real managers do that in three. Example: iD Software managed several of these feats, making quality games, having some kind of time and money estimate beforehand and then actually finishing something.

        When a product like this takes *umpteen* years without any kind of progress or even a measly status report, you have incompetent managers, incompetent programmers, insufficient funding, incompetent financers, inadequate workplace or ideas distant from reality. 3D Realms probably had all of it and more.

        Unfortunately, badly managed companies go bankrupt. Fortunately, they're not wasting anyone's resources, money and time anymore.

        But it's much much worse when badly managed companies cannot go bankrupt under any circumstances, being deemed "too big to fail" or having some other kind of socialist protection.

        • by drfool (1535489) on Thursday May 07 2009, @03:06AM (#27856703)
          we aint even on the same plane here man. Duke Nukem isn't something to trifle with, if you're putting out THE Duke title of all time, you gotta do it right, and if that means scrapping everything multiple times over a span of time larger than a decade, you do it. Some things are more important than time and money, Duke Nukem is one of these things.

          I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm going to repent all of my sins and start frequenting a church, hopefully when I die, Duke Nukem Forever will be waiting for me on God's Commodore 64.
  • by scheuri (655355) on Thursday May 07 2009, @02:38AM (#27856541)
    Will they be shutting down the coming next 10 years?

    SCNR...it is bad for the devs at 3d, but still...it opens a whole new series of jokes.
    scheuri
  • by mischi_amnesiac (837989) on Thursday May 07 2009, @02:54AM (#27856627) Homepage
    Old answer: "When it's done."
    New answer: "No, we are done."
  • by Shadow of Eternity (795165) on Thursday May 07 2009, @02:54AM (#27856631)

    This is like the vatican coming out and saying "Shows over people, no second coming. Sorry, pack it up and go home."

    What ridiculous mythical everpresent promise are we going to look forward to now?

  • good gnus (Score:5, Funny)

    by Tumbleweed (3706) * on Thursday May 07 2009, @03:06AM (#27856697) Homepage

    I guess the Hurd has a chance to beat Duke Nukem Forever to 1.0, after all! Who woulda thunk it?

    • Re:good gnus (Score:5, Insightful)

      by TheRaven64 (641858) on Thursday May 07 2009, @05:38AM (#27857479) Homepage Journal
      Unfortunately, HURD follows the same development methodology as DNF. They had it booting and running X11 / GNOME a few years back, then they decided to ditch Mach and switch to L4. Then they decided to switch to Coyotos instead. Then they decided to write their own game engine, uh, microkernel, from scratch.
  • by hyades1 (1149581) <hyades1@hotmail.com> on Thursday May 07 2009, @03:14AM (#27856745)

    Guinness World Records reports that the long-standing record for constant masturbation previously held by Gooey, a chimpanzee at the Buffalo Zoo, in what was thought to be an unbreakable grip, was "overcome in one magnificent stroke" by the DNF team at 3D Realms.

    The sheer magnificence of the accomplishment has moved a Guinness spokesman to suggest that DNF has actually outgrown the term "vapourware", and become something else entirely. He suggests a new definition, "spankerware", be coined to cummemorate this astounding, 12-year feat of dong-flogging. "If this were an anniversary, the appropriate gift would be linen...and lots of it", the spokesman said.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 07 2009, @03:14AM (#27856749)

    I'm here to kick ass and fund development!
    And I'm all out of funds.

  • I propose... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by phillymjs (234426) <[slashdot] [at] [stango.org]> on Thursday May 07 2009, @03:17AM (#27856767) Homepage Journal

    ...that Wired names their annual vaporware awards in honor of Duke.

    ~Philly

  • by Burning1 (204959) on Thursday May 07 2009, @03:21AM (#27856785) Homepage

    I think now would be as good a time as any to repost the Duke Nukem Forever List for those who haven't already read it, or remember it fondly and looking for a encore laugh.

    Just as the DNF team would occasionally tease us over the years with trailers, the list has been updated to include humanity's latest accomplishments (and failures.)

    Interestingly, a conversation regarding the late great duke came up at work just today...

  • by rice-dawg (878189) on Thursday May 07 2009, @03:21AM (#27856789)
    Loved Duke 3D back in the day, but I was 15 when I last played it and 16 when Duke Nukem Forever was announced. My computer back then was a Pentium 166 with 16 megs of RAM and a 3dfx Voodoo Banshee card. And now, I'm 28, typing this on a multi-gigaherz, multi-core, multi-gigabyte, multi-monitor setup. My, how times have changed.

    For a couple years I eagerly awaited DN4, but after that, enough is enough. I gave up the ghost, earned a college degree, started a career, and next thing I know, I'm almost 30. I literally have not thought once about DN4 in years until I saw this headline.

    What a shocker. Not.

    Does 3DRealms still deserve headline space? They haven't done anything innovative in years. Their management is curt, snarky, and drunk with hubris. If anyone dares to post something anti-3DR on their forums, the thread gets locked, Siegler and/or Broussard gets the last word, and the user gets banned. But that's cool. It's their forums, they can do whatever they want, and apparently they only allow sycophants.

    "When it's done," they say. "The game will revolutionize interactivity," they say. "We don't need any money, we're 100% self-funded, and can afford it indefinitely because we are rock star developers and can sell ice to eskimos," they say. Oops.

    How many engine changes did DN4 go through? How much work was wasted in redesigning all the levels over and over again? And most importantly, how much money could DN4 have made if they simply instilled a little more discipline than "when it's done" into their culture? Management has to be stunningly demented to squander such a valuable franchise, and instead be content with trickling out old Duke Nukem ports and re-makes. If I were a developer at 3DR, I would be seriously pissed at having busted my ass all these years without ever seeing a dime of royalty that could've been seven figures, and instead am now laid off and have to look for another job in this craptacular economy.

    Memo to 3DRealms: thanks for the good times back in the day, but good riddance to your arrogance, your lack of respect towards the industry, and your vaporware promises. You will not be missed.
  • by Japong (793982) on Thursday May 07 2009, @03:23AM (#27856803)

    This is the strangest read I've had in a while:

    http://gamingisstupid.com/2009/05/06/the-chair-story-revival/ [gamingisstupid.com]

    I was told to think about my next words very carefully before giving my final answer. Honestly, I felt this was a test to see how well I would hold up to pressure later when we had to "hold the lie" (the similarity to "hold the line" isn't on accident), so I held firm and said I really wanted to, but needed to have it reviewed...

    oh fuck...

    Faster than I can even remember (literally... I don't remember) I was knocked out of my chair by I *think* of all people Tim Sweeney (it was a wooden kitchen chair) and was pinned on the ground by Mike Wilson and Cliffy B (he's so much stronger than I ever expected). George walks over to my chair and fucking stomps the shit out of it until the legs are broken off. He casually picks up one of the legs that had split into a shit your pants style point and starts tossing it up and down. Scott and Mark Rein alternate on and off saying that I apparently wasn't aware how *real* business is done and that if I didn't want to find out why those two companies had maintained such a strong position in the industry dating back to the shareware days (when it seems people didn't ask nearly as many questions about why developers appeared, made a game, and then disappeared without a trace)... I had better reconsider my answer.

    I do remember the next part very very well though... I will never forget it and I have to admit that I have dreams about it pretty frequently.

    Cliffy and Mike pulled me up and shoved my face about 6 inches from the point of the chair leg. I was drenched in sweat (the trailers didn't have decent AC so it was already hot as hell in there)... and if they had let go of me I would not have been able to stand on my own.

    George looked me in the eyes and asked me one more time what I was going to do... so at that point I did what anyone would do...

    I mean, this guy actually did work at 3DRealms and this is his blog, but seriously, CliffyB and Marc Rein threatening developers with broken chairs? Tim Sweeny tackling people and holding them down for gang beatings?

  • this is so sad! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by AlgorithMan (937244) on Thursday May 07 2009, @03:25AM (#27856809) Homepage
    I loved Duke Nukem 3D, I played it until 2003 or so (when the last DN3D league was closed). I still have it on my HDD and play against the sob-bot every now and then. I even helped working on the High-Resolution-Pack for some time and I wrote the win32 launcher for the sob-bot...

    I was patiently waiting for DNF since 1997 and I never lost hope that some day it would be done

    to me, this is as if a relative had died :-(
  • Wow. (Score:5, Informative)

    by ledow (319597) on Thursday May 07 2009, @04:33AM (#27857167) Homepage

    Gotta love the site that lists all the things that have happened in the time DNF was "supposed" to be being made.

    For instance, it took less time to implement and complete the entire Moon landing program.
    The Beatles were formed, released every song, and split up in less time than it's been since DNF's initial announcement.
    Wars came and went quicker.
    The *entire* GTA series of games was released since the announcement.
    58 Mario games were made since the announcement.

    It always was a farce, always will be a farce. Even if the source was released tomorrow, complete and playable in every detail, DNF would *still* be the biggest development farce in gaming. It should have had its tail cut long ago, rather than constant "reinvention". All we can hope is that the developers and producers involved learn a lesson and start getting things out of the door in their new jobs. It sounds like it was technically good at most points but reinventing the wheel and constant, inept, managerial interruptions turned it into a circus (so, what else is new?).

    Surely anyone with a brain would have left 3DRealms *long* ago anyway, if this is how it was working?