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Taking Gaming To the Next Billion Players
Posted by
Soulskill
on Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:28 PM
from the one-console-per-child dept.
from the one-console-per-child dept.
Hugh Pickens writes "June marks the launch across Brazil of Zeebo, a console that aims to tap an enormous new market for videogaming for the billion-strong, emerging middle classes of such countries as Brazil, India, Mexico, Russia and China. Zeebo uses the same Qualcomm chipsets contained in high-end smartphones, together with 1GB of flash memory, three USB slots and a proprietary dual analogue gamepad. It plugs into a TV and outputs at a 640 x 480 pixel resolution. 'The key thing is we're using off-the-shelf components,' says Mike Yuen, director of the gaming group at Qualcomm. This approach means that, while Zeebo can be priced appropriately for its markets — it will launch at US $199 in Brazil compared to around US $250 (plus another US $50 for a mod chip to play pirated games) for a PlayStation 2 in the region — and next year the company plans to drop the price of the console to $149. But the most important part of the Zeebo ecosystem is its wireless digital distribution that gets around the low penetration of wired broadband in many of these countries, negates the cost of dealing with packaged retail goods, and removes the risk of piracy, with the games priced at about $10 locked to the consoles they're downloaded to. Zeebo is not meant to directly compete with powerful devices like Sony's PlayStation 3, Microsoft's Xbox 360, or the Wii. 'In Latin America, where there's a strong gaming culture, that's what we'll be, but in India and China we can be more educational or lifestyle-oriented,' says Yuen. One Indian gaming blog predicts Zeebo will struggle, in part due to the cultural reluctance toward digital distribution and also the lack of piratable games."
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G1 Google Phone Could End Up the Most Popular Console Ever 116 comments
Jon Jordan writes "Pocket Gamer has been getting its fingers inside the unique new Zeebo console — a sub $200 system designed for emerging markets — to discover it's based on a hacked version of the T-Mobile G1 Google phone. It effectively consists of the chipset from the HTC Dream/G1 Android phone, plus some extra I/O to deal with TV screens, controllers and the like. If this gaming, entertainment and educational console for the billion-strong middle classes in emerging economies such as Brazil and India catches on, HTC could become a serious global gaming force. Qualcomm's Mike Yuen said in an interview, 'We have this mass market chipset, and our next-generation chipset is getting faster. What we announced, [Qualcomm's] Snapdragon [chipset], is going to netbooks; it bumps it a few notches above that. The cell phone business, including us, is never going to build a processor that's going to match or surpass what the video game guys do. So, why chase that?'"
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Lack of piratable games (Score:4, Insightful)
Maybe the "pirating" is just a symptom of a failing business model, don't you think?
Re:Lack of piratable games (Score:5, Interesting)
yes. the business model of only feeding the "important" market, such as the US/Canada, Europe and Japan.
For example, here in my country (Argentina) the Wii and the PS2/PS3 are the only consoles "officially" sold by Nintendo and Sony (the only ones you can get from a Big Retailer), the rest is just bootlegs/imports. Available original games are usually just the one that came with the console. But why? because they have to be bootlegged.
OTOH, PC games are available legally. There are thousands of titles at a decent price (ranging from $50 to $110, that's argentine pesos), while PS2/3 and Wii games are well over $250.
So how much is that? Well, monthly salaries are $900 to $1500 for middle class. You don't really expect middle class to pay $250 for a game, do you?
There is the fact that the Wii retails for $2400 or about USD 650. Take the US retail price of $250, then add a 50% customs tax, thats USD 375. Still far from the USD 650 retail price. Why? Why is it cheaper in countries with a higher purchase power? Why don't they sell it at the same price, or just a little higher, and also sell the software at an affordable price for us?
This isn't just whining. The PC game industry does. Coca cola does. McDonald's does it too, Pepsi, and thousands of other multinational companies that have adjusted to the local market's prices and tastes.
Give us "poor people" a chance, will ya? We might surprise you. For example, I own a comic book shop and I have lots and lots of comic books, manga, etc. Things you can get for free off the internet... and I still sell a lot.
Parent
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Just an idea.
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but they don't sell original games at an affordable price anyway. Also, games are usually in English, while games for Spain are in Spanish, for Finland they are in Finnish, etc, all that PAL vs NTSC issue. Apparently, NTSC systems don't allow for Spanish translations, it's a technical limitation of the system. (do I have to clarify that the last part was a joke?)
Movies, for example have a different dub for Latin America and another for Spain. Disney movies even have regional dubs for the biggest markets. B
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Taking the comic books example. Sure you can find scans of many manga/comics online [defying copyright laws of course] if you look.
But there's nothing like owning something real. Same with games.
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that's exactly my point. local editions of manga cost around $18 (USD 5), up to $25 (USD 7) for deluxe editions.
spanish editions (all are in spanish, by spanish edition I mean "printed in spain") cost $30 for a few items in promo to the average of $45 (USD 12-13).
at my store, local editions outsell imports 20 or 30 to 1. maybe even more. so the price is an important factor after all. I'm pretty sure that if games were cheaper, they will sell.
also, there are NO game rental shops. there were at some point in
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But there's nothing like owning something real. Same with games.
Yes, those plastic cases and DVDs make me all fuzzy inside.
There is nothing like that about buying a video game. The only reason I haven't moved on completely to buying all my games digitally is the fact that Australia has shitty download quotas. The only reason for me to buy a game instead of pirating it is a) multiplayer or b) it's actually a good game.
The only exception is the seldom produced collector's edition that actually has something worthwhile, like Warhammer Online's.
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Worst attempt to take the Falklands ever!
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Maybe once people are used to getting something for free, legitimately or not, you can't get them to pay anything for it. Qualcomm might think $10 is a low price point, but it's still too much if the product represents no value to the customer.
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Maybe once people are used to getting something for free, legitimately or not, you can't get them to pay anything for it.
Maybe you would be right if said games weren't so fucking expensive compared to the local income. See another reply to my post.
And given the replayability of most games out there, I wonder if they do represent value to anyone, much less a wide market.
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If shoplifting were easy and virtually impossible to catch, I would bet you lots of people would do it.
Ah, the good old fallacy. Tell me, if I "steal" a game I would never, ever buy, how much money did they lose? How much does it cost them to make another copy? I just did it for free.
Does it hurt you to know I'm playing an otherwise expensive game while eating the cheapest can of beans I could find while looking for work and avoiding my landlord? Maybe some people have priorities more important than "only have government approved software on my laptop".
Or... (Score:2)
They could just all get netbooks and play web games, like Game! [wittyrpg.com]
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You beat me to the netbook comment...
So I'll start with "what you said", and add:
The really big push for games, networking, and general-purpose computing isn't going to be a dedicated gaming machine. Why do they think that the console markets are practically non-existent in these markets? It's mainly because you can get a general-purpose computer that *also* plays games for usually no more than ~30% the cost of a console.
And you don't have to pirate games in order "to game" -- there are plenty of great game
Social element? (Score:2)
Plus a computer will always offer a better, broader "social element" than any console.
How? If you want to play PC games when you have friends over, you have to have as many computers as people because most PC games' multiplayer modes are designed exclusively for network play. There are a few games designed for multiple USB gamepads and a large monitor, such as Serious Sam, the Lego $movie games, and EA Sports, but not much else.
$200? (Score:3, Interesting)
Let's see - an XBox Arcade costs $200 and has pretty much everything the Zeebo has, minus built-in wireless. I fail to see what market they're going for...
Now if that console would be $50, maybe $75, they'd have a shot at getting into the middle-class market in emerging economies. And considering the hardware involved, I don't see how it would be that hard to get there.
$200 plus $300 sales tax = $500 (Score:5, Informative)
Let's see - an XBox Arcade costs $200
Plus $300 sales tax. Seriously, Brazil has a roughly 150 percent tax on imported consumer electronics from the combined effect of the import duty, the value added tax, and the interstate commerce tax.
Parent
Serious? (Score:2)
Because a PS2 retails for about 90 euro over here, so I was wondering where they got 250 from. And I thought dutch sales tax of 19% was high.
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Well, that would make the Zeebo $80 pretax. That's actually a much better deal than I initially thought, and much more inline with what I thought it would have to cost.
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I have to agree with you - too much money and not enough capability.
I'd be surprised to hear that a PS2 actually costs $250 in Brazil. You can pick them up used here in the UK for the equivalent of $100 or so, and the GamingIndians article linked in the summary places them at $125 (presumably new); the Zeebo isn't undercutting them at all, it's half the price again!
Add to that the fact that Zeebo's DRM prevents illegal copying (thus cutting off a prime source of cheap games in those markets) and places rest
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I got my xbox for USD 40, plus 2 games. Add 5$ for a pawn-shop copy for MechAssault (for soft-modding)
How can I make sure that I don't buy an Xbox whose dashboard has been upgraded to a version resistant to soft-modding through MechAssault?
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I love XBMC. too bad the Xbox is not powerful enough to do 720p video.
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It has the additional functionality of a fetching red ring [today.com] and many E74 errors.
anyone for a slice of irony? (Score:2)
One Indian gaming blog predicts Zeebo will struggle, in part due to the cultural reluctance toward digital distribution and also the lack of piratable games."
I've heard it speculated before that piracy in some circumstances encourages overall profit, is this a concrete example of said theory?
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One Indian gaming blog predicts Zeebo will struggle, in part due to the cultural reluctance toward digital distribution and also the lack of piratable games."
I've heard it speculated before that piracy in some circumstances encourages overall profit, is this a concrete example of said theory?
given that it's speculation, I'd say it's not a concrete example of anything.
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But it's written on a blog! It's not like just anybody can get a blog on the internet.
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No, obviously, it might raise the profits of the hardware manufacturer assuming they don't subsidise the hardware cost with game sales, but it reduces the profits of the game developers. Not sure what's so hard to see about this?
Why do PS2s cost $250 in Brazil? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why do PS2 games cost up to $100 there? Zeebo doesn't need to have this kind of margin to operate in if PS2s cost $125 and the games were $30-60.
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still i can't understand why brazillians have to shell out 250usd per console.
If you ask why the tariff continues, it continues because it hasn't angered enough Brazilians to make them vote in a legislature that would repeal the tariff. Or are you asking why it was instituted in the first place?
Can't copy? No buy. (Score:5, Insightful)
If you look at the console market, you can see a distinct connection between console sales and the appearance of modchips (or softmods, where possible). It may sound odd, but the ability to copy a game actually increases your chances to sell a game.
How do you decide which console to get? Well, ok, not you. Take Jonny Averageplayer. He is in school and he wants a console. Which one will he want? Most likely the one his friends have. Why? Well, first of all of course to be part of the crowd and not the odd guy out with the "wrong" hardware, but also to be able to swap games with them. So being able to trade games around and to copy them is a key feature for this demographic. Now, which console will his friends have? More often than not, the one where copying is possible or at least easy.
Then there's the hardcore gamer crowd that want that latest sequel for their favorite game series. But usually, they come out in Japan and you're not, and with vendor lock in and distribution protection, you have to wait for months or sometimes even years. Will you wait? Nope. You will want a console where you can crowbar that location protection lock out.
This all leads to one ultimate problem of selling game copies: To make someone buy a copy of your game, he first of all has to have the matching console. You can have the best console in the world and the games can look a hundred times better on your hardware, and you can have the best copy protection (which is, as detailed above, actually keeping people from buying the console in the first place), if nobody has the hardware you should've made games for the inferior console instead if you wanted to sell.
So, in conclusion, the project won't take off. Nobody will want the console. 200 bucks can easily buy a used PS2 with mod chip and a load of other crap. And the ability to play copies.
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200 bucks can easily buy a used PS2 with mod chip and a load of other crap.
Uh, no, not in Brazil it won't. That's the point, this isn't targeted at the US/Europe market. Read the summary, please.
Oh, I'm sorry... (Score:2)
Did my post above offend someone's highly developed sense of legality so it got modded down?
Aaaaw... how cute. Like a little baby.
With one of those pink little cocktail parasols in its little dead hand.
Tried an NES PowerPak? (Score:2)
I wait until at least two conditions are met:
1. I must be able to play pirated games as easy or easier than the "originals".
2. Console must cost less than 200 Euros.
Have you bought your Nintendo Entertainment System and PowerPak [retrousb.com] yet?
Less than 75 Euros for portable consoles which also must play videos and music from SD cards.
The PowerPak can play NSF music from CF cards. There are several programs for composing NSF music, including MCK, NerdTracker II, and FamiTracker.
ONCE, and only ONCE these two conditions are met - there has to be a particular game that would make me want to buy the console.
For PS2 that was Berserk - which is still not out in US or Europe.
A spiritual sequel to Berzerk [wikipedia.org], called Smash TV [wikipedia.org], was ported to the NES.
Not that Berserk... (Score:2)
This Berserk. [wikipedia.org]
Zeebo? NOT a good name. (Score:2)
Somehow, I can't help not associating it with bankruptcy. [pbfcomics.com]
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The "good" names have run slim, and I think the odd names are a confluence of at least two different things. One, is a catchy and memorable name, goofy naming seems to be the style, even baby names are spelled differently than before just to be different.
Another, is that it's easier to get and defend a trademark if it's not using words that was commonly used before.
it wont fly in the middle east (Score:2, Informative)
When Cultures Mature? (Score:2)
It's easy to see an emerging new business model, but I see also something that is a "Good Thing". Mexico is not a BRIC [wikipedia.org] nation, its revenues are the result of the NAFTA [wikipedia.org] Treaty. As a parent of a child going off to college some 2000 miles away, I see parallels in parenting, and international trade by a Donor Sovereign State. There is a pervasive belief that if a person has something to lose, they will not be so willing to make an ultimate sacrifice. Maybe when BRIC, and NAFTA reciepients can claim second,
Or to put it another way (Score:2)
Or for a 50% greater initial investment you can have a console that is more powerful and has armfuls of triple-A titles available on it for the price of a blank DVD.
Does anybody actually believe this is going to work in any way at all?
Surely the 'correct' way to address the problem would be to just bring out a PSTwo console for $99 and release region specific titles out of the back catalo
Onestation? (Score:2)
I don't see how this could compete with the OneStation, which is basically a NES with 100+ pirated games built in for under $40. The onestation is a handheld, there are also other pirated NES clones which are not handhelds, and would thus be cheaper.
Pirated NESs are what will bring gaming to the next billion players, and they've already been doing so in China.
Real numbers for Zeebo! (Score:5, Informative)
The taxes to import an original PS, or any video game, are too high, some times more than 100% of taxes. And this is why Sony, Nintendo or MS won't create an official distribution of video games here, unless they assemble the consoles here, what will reduce taxes, but won't be cheap as it is in China.
So, the numbers for Zeebo actually are:
- A PS2 in black market is R$ 400,00 (US$ 180,00), and it will play any illegal copy of any PS2 game.
- A PS2 game is much more rich, even PSP has more quality than Zeebo.
- You can download a PS2 game from internet and burn a CD and play it on a cracked PS2.
- A illegal copy of a game in the black market is R$ 10,00 (US$ 4,54).
Note that the black market here is called "camelo", and is not something hidden in the "undeground" of the city. The "camelo" market is a normal place, sometimes looks like a shopping mall, and any one buys there, from a poor kid to a rich man, since is where we find this stuffs, and is not illegal to buy there, what is illegal is to sell imported stuffs without pay the taxes, what some stores at "camelo" does.
On the white market a basic PS2 is R$ 449,00 (US$ 204,00), and PS2 is a product better than Zeebo. But it won't play illegal copies, and a legal copy of a PS2 game is from R$ 100,00 to R$300,00 (US$ 45,00 to US$ 136,00).
You can buy a PSP in US starting from US$ 120,00, and it will be much better than Zeebo, and is portable.
The question is, a kid in Brazil will want to buy a Zeebo or a PS2? Well, starting at US$ 199,00 no one will want a Zeebo, and a PS2 will be less expensive in any point (console or games).
And just to do a checkmate, we can't forget the PS1, since Zeebo is almost a PS1 in quality, and the price is half of a PS2, a price that Zeebo will never have.
"Not ment to compete" no kidding (Score:4, Informative)
Anyone look at the specs of this thing? They mention its not ment to compete with the PS3 and 360 but in reality it can barely compete with the original playstation. Its basically a vastly overpriced cell phone game player for your tv...I sense an epic failure in the making.
Their website is full of lies too. (Score:3, Informative)
I covered a lot of the Zeebo issues on my own site [nfgworld.com] a while ago. From my site:
"They further claim that hundreds of millions of games have been downloaded wirelessly without one ever being pirated. At first I thought they were joking, as a search on any warez site will turn up hundreds of mobile phone downloads cracked and ready to play, but then I read between the lines: Out of all the wireless games out there, one of them still hasn't been pirated! I wonder which one it is... "
"But hey, at least it has VGA graphics, right? 640x480 video, and since it's VGA we know it'll be non-interlaced (ie: progressive). Too bad it only has composite-video outputs, which can't actually support VGA resolutions."
""Additional enhancements may include [...] new services." Phew, I was worried about the future. But no, the future's awesome: "By 2012, the worldwide video game market is projected to become a $68 billion industry." Yup, from $9.5b in 2007 to $70b in 2012. Only Zeebo allows you to capture a market that will increase in value seven-fold in five years. "
There are so many things wrong with their plan that I can't believe it's anything but a scam run by liars or idiots.
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I think it depends on what the other platforms cost in a given market. Market conditions vary by country. It seems like Brazil should be a sizeable enough of a market to justify low costs, but there may be taxes and import tarriffs involved.
I got a kick out of the article copy saying that it's not going to compete with the "more powerful" platforms, including the Wii. The Wii is a fine platform, but it's not really powerful, it's designed to be very low power to boot.
BREW has a lockout chip business model (Score:2)
The real question should be -- is it hackable in some way or form.
It's based on Qualcomm BREW [wikipedia.org], the platform where you have to pay $4 every time you recompile your program. From the article: "Since March 2006, the least expensive digital signature for testing costs 400 USD and is limited to 100 application submissions [according to VeriSign]. This steep cost of entry excludes hobbyists from developing for phones that use BREW." So it's more closed than the iPod Touch.
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You can grab the SDK now and compile with your heart's content for no cost. You can even use gnuarm to compile to device for no cost as well.
If I compile for the device, is an emulator available at no cost? And are the emulators accurate enough, like Nestopia and Nintendulator, to give me some level of assurance that if the program runs correctly on the emulator, it will run correctly on the device?
The test sig is the anti-piracy vehicle. It's not per compile
Even if this is true, the BREW model still looks prohibitively expensive for hobbyists or for microISVs looking to develop and publish their first title.
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I believe you have to get a BREW compatible phone and have Qualcomm unlock it for developer testing to be able to load apps onto it for testing.