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No Doom 3 This Year?
Posted by
simoniker
on Tue Jul 22, 2003 06:59 PM
from the done-when-it's-finished dept.
from the done-when-it's-finished dept.
Ant writes "According to an article at Blue's News: 'Though id Software basically invented the idea of using "when it's done" as a release date, and thus did not specify a release date when DOOM 3 was announced, many have been assuming that the game would be available for this year's holiday season. Now a report on HomeLAN Fed cites Activision's 2003 release calendar and quarterly financial conference call... [saying that] Activision admits that this matter is entirely in id's hands, but that they are not expecting the game this year, and have it "penciled" on their calendars for fiscal Q4 (Jan-March) 2004.' Additionally, Quake IV is now due in Fiscal 2005 (which begins April 2004)."
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No Doom 3 This Year?
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Doom Forever? (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.real-profile.com/)
Re:Doom Forever? (Score:5, Funny)
(http://shockandblog.com/blog)
Re:Doom Forever? (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Monday August 11 2003, @06:07PM)
I cannot express the feelings I felt when I first saw this game, except that pervailing knowledge that my life will become less meaningful than usual come September.
Doom 3 verus Half Life 2 (Score:5, Interesting)
Looking at the HL2 and D3 trailers, it is pretty clear that the lighting effects in Doom are far superior. Watch the HL2 guys pass through a shadow and their entire body changes shade all at once (kinda like in the original Doom :P). In D3 the shadows pass over the creatures in a far more realistic fasion, including shadows cast by dynamic lights (remember the bathroom scene?).
The HL2 physics appear to be a lot better though. Not a big suprise there, Id has never really shown much interest in good physics (strafejumping anyone?). I'd also bet HL2 will have the better AI. And the HL2 engine will probably be more versatile: larger areas, more enemies on the screen, stuff like that.
I expect HL2 will be the choice for "kill your friends online", and D3 for "at home with the lights off getting the shit scared out of you". Personally I'm getting kinda tired of the former, so I'm really looking forward to D3.
Re:Doom 3 verus Half Life 2 (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Monday November 28 2005, @12:21PM)
Re:Doom 3 verus Half Life 2 (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.thenewfreedom.net/)
Re:Doom 3 verus Half Life 2 (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://moofie.lastcoolnameleft.com/)
id hasn't made a decent single-player game since Doom II. They make game engines, and deathmatch games. That bores me. Just my opinion, of course, but I thought Half Life was the game the Quake engine was born for.
And HL2 is going to be even better. Can't wait!
Press Release: New Name for Doom (Score:3, Funny)
Re:No, no (Score:5, Funny)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday October 23, @05:31PM)
Re:No, no (Score:5, Informative)
(http://sc.tri-bit.com/ | Last Journal: Sunday July 08, @02:36AM)
It's straight out of Carmack's
I can wait for a decent game (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I can wait for a decent game (Score:5, Funny)
Doom slogans.. (Score:5, Funny)
"DOOM2: Hell on Earth"
"No DOOM 3? What the Hell?"
Re:Doom slogans.. (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.lostchicken.com/)
Thats a relief! (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe Now... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Maybe Now... (Score:5, Funny)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday October 23, @05:31PM)
woot (Score:3, Funny)
Release Date? (Score:3, Insightful)
There will be no meaningful comments to this article, unless John Carmack or one of the other ID guys decides to respond.
Re:Release Date? (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Wednesday April 27 2005, @11:26AM)
C'mon dagarath, I know you could have thought of that if you tried.
Michelangelo (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://www.nearlydeaf.com/ | Last Journal: Friday June 16 2006, @12:24AM)
Re:Pretty eye-candy, but not much else... (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://slashdot.org/)
Consider that he's mostly "only" doing the 3D graphics engine, and that a couple mod groups have started to modify Quake into something quite different from a FPS (I remember a racing game). Once the engine is up and running, you can code the actual "game implementation" anyway you like, ie any game style. I'm pretty sure somebody could evolve Doom3 into a RTS, given enough time and incentive.
Re:Pretty eye-candy, but not much else... (Score:5, Funny)
(http://jesus.everdense.com/)
operating system. The question is how much incentive and how much time it will require.
Well, for starters...
I'm sure Clippy will be a helluva lot more polite, when you're pointing a Rail gun at his paperclip arse.
Re:Pretty eye-candy, but not much else... (Score:5, Informative)
(http://slashdot.org/)
Carmack is mostly a 3D guy...Kindof like the kernel hacker in the back. He has say and cares in what type of games get put out, but in general he is focusing on the engine... id releases their engines every once in a while, with new upgrades of features taking advantage of the latest video cards, 3D innovations, and performance upgrades. The game they are working on just happens to be the label for that new engine.
So far, Carmack's only 3D sons are Quake, Quake2, and Quake3 engines. Technology from Quake1 and 2 spawned halflife, and thus the HL MOD Counterstrike. It became a huge success, with id's engine doing the grunt work underneath.
Then Quake2 begot Soldier of Fortune, another huge single player and multiplayer success. So successfull that SOF eventually begot SOF2 (based off an independant engine I believe)...
After a while, id decided to release their Quake3 engine. It came with a multiplayer DM and CTF style game only, with no single player except playing the MP game with bots inserted. This quake3 engine gave a whole new meaning to 3D graphics engines, with curved surfaces, fully 32 bit color rendering, huge advancements in lighting, and large terrain support, stable and known consol/script interface for the "pro" gamers, amongst numerous features. (note: there were other competing engines that had similar functions, UT for example)
Quake3 was an instant hit. It carried on the hardcore gamers tradition from the land of Quake2 deathmatch and CTF to a newer generation of Quake gamers. With the release of OSP competition mod, quake3 was the first game to introduce serious gamers to serioius tournaments. People started Modding the Quake3 engine and created navy seals games, and others. Companies started putting out their own mods and releasing them as standalone games. Namely, Quake3 begot Jedi Knight II, Return to Castle Wolfenstein, and Medal of Honor: Allied Assault, and the new FREE multiplayer online game: Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory. The latter 3 saving private ryan like semi massive multiplayer FPS and James bond like single player games were huge successess both in sales, but also in online gaming. Semi massive multiplayer reality online FPS games are one of the new big things, and id's Quake3 engine is behind it. (note: Battlefield 1942, using a competing engine, is of the same type, but with vehicles and larger terrains)
Quake3 will likely spawn more games, and improve its children into perfection. Quake3 is showing its age though. No vehicle support, and very large terrains are hard to build without killing framerate (wolfenstein has shown this). And new technology has built up since Quake3 has been released way back in 2000(?).
DOOM III will be id's next generation engine. With a new name, and an all new rendering paths for various card manufacturers. The latest technology in 3D rendering will be included, and you can bet it will be stable and fast and beautiful as ever. From the looks of it, DOOM III is scheduled to beget Quake IV as its online counterpart (developed by a seperate company, but using the DOOMIII engine). DOOM III should support vehicles in all shapes (aircfaft, cars, bikes) and will have unbelieveably large terrain support. Improved lighting engines and geometry and physics engines. All new sound engine. One thing I MUST mention is the all new network code. It will be improved to allow better scalability for massive multiplayer online gaming and with better prediction technology and lag fixes.
Virtually everything will be all new and improved. You can bet that the DOOMIII engine will live long and prosper.
thank you.
Not what I heard ... (Score:3, Funny)
(http://www.eclec.tk/ | Last Journal: Tuesday December 25 2001, @03:37PM)
1.) Duke Nuke Um Forever
2.) Team Fortress 2
3.) Doom III
They're calling it the "vaporware of the century pack" and it will be available for the low cost of $0.00 that's right folks, free.
Just playing, I mean it's not like there aren't screenshots that people love and a huge crowd of ever-anticipating buyers just waiting.
Re:Not what I heard ... (Score:5, Funny)
yeah, but it's only coming out on the phantom
Who this REALLY hurts (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd also bet that AMD and Intel see a nice little spike when a new generation hallmark game comes out. Thats the kind of thing that everyone is waiting for to upgrade...
Columbine (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/)
Nobody thinks of them.
HL 2 Mighted have changed things (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Monday January 08 2007, @07:53PM)
I think ID realized that they would have to revamp somewhat and code additional features into the engine itself as well as enhance gameplay so the worlds would at the very least be as interactive as the worlds in HL2.
I've never been a HL fanboy the movies I've seen of in game play not cinematics are amazing! They have revolutionized gaming and are taking it in a new direction in terms of a fully interactive world. Go dl a movie of HL 2 off Kazaa or BT and see what I mean.
I had no intentions of purchasing HL 2 but after the tech-demo/in game movies I will now buy it.
Re:HL 2 Mighted have changed things (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm thinking that after Valve's E3 techdemo and their subsequent best of show awards with little mention of ID/D3 that ID were taken off guard. I'm sure they thought they'd waltz in there and floor the place but Valve came out of no where and blew the socks off of everything hands down.
******
Or just a maketing strategy seeing the demo movie of Doom III and Half Life 2. Half Life is far superior to Doom III, and since Doom III is slated to be released on 2 fortnite of Spetember ID does not wants there sales to be affected by HL. Once people have already had the taste of HL ID can safely release Doom.
Re:HL 2 Mighted have changed things (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://icculus.org/~lucasw | Last Journal: Saturday November 15 2003, @09:13PM)
I feel the same way- and I'm usually patient/apathetic enough to wait for the bargain bin for pretty much everything. It's been a long time since I've ever felt really inspired by a game, but the movies of HL2 are incredible (also, despite the wierd proprietary bink video format, I really liked not having some murky mpeg and actually seeing the game like it will be in play).
There's also DX2 down the road, though I haven't seen more than a few screenshots. And hell, when Halo 2 comes out there will be two reasons to buy an Xbox and the price will have come down more by then.
Of course, what I really want is the facial animation of HL2 with the shadows and detail of Doom 3 with Halo's battle sequences but put in the setting of Deus Ex...
When its done... (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Tuesday November 27, @04:08PM)
Re:When its done... (Score:4, Informative)
Wow are you dead wrong.
When the "marketeers" (also known as management) decide to ship a title before the techies think it's ready, debacles like Falcon 4 happen.
It's a great game now...after many patches. The initial reviews sucked, and sales never recovered.
Re:When its done... (Score:5, Informative)
(http://apipes.blogspot.com/)
That's only true if you have a culture that encourages (or forces) engineers to add features at their whim. If you have a culture that says, "This is what we're going to do in this release; we may do less, but we won't do more unless we are told we have to," then you have a much better chance to ship.
Reading that, you may think that it's a Dilbertesque way of working ("less work! more pay!"), but it's one strategy for actually getting things done.
Having been in the game industry, it's about 180 degrees from the way they work, though... it's nothing to come in on a Monday and find that over the weekend, some programmer got uppity late Saturday night and coded an AWESOME NEW (unplanned) FEATURE that will plague you with bugs in six months. Maybe things have changed in the past few years, but that was the state when I was there.
Additionally, I don't know what segment of the industry you work in, but most channels have such a long lead time that if you don't have your marketing people putting out tendrils and your sales people booking units long before the ship date, you'll be burning through a lot of cash before you get dollar #1 out of the customer...
As expected... I hope. (Score:5, Interesting)
Maybe this is a sign that there are good things to come. I just hope that there is some true innovation involved.
It's not surpsing Carmack wants to get it right. (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.epscylonb.com/)
Re:It's not surpsing Carmack wants to get it right (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://slashdot.org/)
Quake3 lacks scalability to large numbers of people. The main problem is that the server sends the same info about each client to every other client. So if 64 people join a server, there are 64 different clients that you have to know about, even if you shouldn't (like, they aren't close to being on your screen). This effectively limits Quake3 based games to a MAX of 32 players per server (due to outgoing bandwidth limitations of the server, CPU time is also a concern, but not as great).
I do not know what DOOM III is going to do to solve these types of problem, but I have heard rumors that it will support the ability to tell clients about only the relevant players on his screen. This would increase security (prevent cheaters from using "radar" cheats via packetsniffing) and dramatically increase the number of players capable of being on a single server.
Also, larger terrains will be supported. In quake3, you make terrains with a 3D mesh, and the computer must render every polygon in the terrain no matter your distance from it. In many newer games, the level of detail of the polygons are reduced when viewing terrains from large distances, thus improving performance dramatically without costing any visual degredation. DOOMIII will likely support these enhancements.
Vehicle support is another big thing for DOOMIII. One of Quake3's biggest drawbacks is that it does not have cars or planes to drive. Battle Field 1942's popularity has proven this fact online, where the Q3 equivilent game (wolfenstein, and wolf ET) are in competition, but most everyone who plays BF1942 stick with its engine dispite it being buggy,slow, and crappy physics simply because of its vehicle support.
The list can go on and on, but those are the 3 biggest points that are preventing Quake3 from selling to developers. With DOOMIII's upgrades, id will have the upper hand on the game engine market and many game developers are itching for it is release.
I dont care when its out... (Score:4, Funny)
(http://hoodlumzproductions.com/)
No Doom 3 This Year? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:No Doom 3 This Year? (Score:5, Funny)
That would be the RIAA, MPAA and SCO.
Re:No Doom 3 This Year? (Score:5, Funny)
(Last Journal: Friday June 13 2003, @02:24PM)
Crates rendered in 24,000 polygons (Score:4, Funny)
(http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/)
Dammit... PC game comedy died with Old Man Murray. [oldmanmurray.com]
Quality over Quantity (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://www.dragonmagic.net/)
I'm glad id is waiting to release Doom III when it's done instead of releasing it on a schedule for holiday sales. The sound engine they've described, the lighting and camera abilities they've described, and just the basic plot make me really want this game, and I'd rather have it finished than nearly-there first.
March 2004 (Score:5, Interesting)
It wouldn't surprise me if HL2 has been a factor here. Everyone was shocked at the E3 debut of Half Life 2, and full, full credit to Valve. Over the past 2 years especially, Valve have taken all the criticism of "you're just happy to sit on the laurels of Half Life you lazy b's", and sat back and blown everyone away when it mattered.
Certainly some aspects of the Doom 3 engine seem from reports awful in comparison to HL2's engine - poorer scaling in terms of system spec, Environment manipulation (which HL2 blew everyone away with at E3 but is apparently very poor in the current Doom 3 engine) and a plethora more effect/shader programs than Doom 3.
The competition is good, because its a chance to force id's hand to play catch up. For too long, id and Carmack have sat in almost demi-God mode over the PC games market with the Doom 3 hype and you have to wonder if maybe they have got a little complacent.
Oh, and a final issue, purely to play Devil's Advocate, I understand Half Life 2 uses DirectX and some might suggest that it is the reason why HL2 apparently is more scalable and achieves more effects more easily across many performance levels. Could HL2's apparent conquering of Doom 3 at the moment be the defining moment of DirectX's conquering of OpenGL?
More of a temporary thing (Score:5, Interesting)
(http://www.icarusindie.com/)
I believe OpenGL can do those things to an extent but at least until OpenGL 2.0 comes out, DirectX will be the top graphics API.
What really blew me away though about HL2 was the physics and wickedly creative game play like shoot the rope and the huge thingie swings down and kills everything in it's path. And those rediculously tall creatures. Things which really have nothing to do with the graphics themselves. It's phsyics and creative character design.
DooM3 relied on more corridors and darkness. HL2 brought the monsters out into the light which is so much less cliche it's actually "scarier." Plus you actually get to see the full magnitude of what it is you're shooting at.
Walking down a brightly lit street and a huge monster jumping out at you will make me jump higher than one jumping out of the shadows where they have been hiding for years.
HL2 is definitly getting my money as will ATI or nVIDIA. DooM3 I'm skeptical about.
Ben
Doom 3 Specs will be outdated by then... (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.myspace.com/adamtopher)
Even if you assume that to really play the game you need twice the minimum specs which would be approximately:
2 Ghz CPU
512 MB RAM
GF2 or Radeon 8xxx series card
I would guess that's gonna be one outdated computer system by Jan-March 2004.
So much for Doom 3 forcing everyone to upgrade and sparking a business revivaling for PC parts manufacturers....
"Done when it's finished" (Score:3, Insightful)
(http://www.enchanter.net/)
Since when has any software product ever been FINISHED when it's released? Usually -- and *especially* with PC games -- the release is full of bugs and requires a couple of quick patch cycles to bring up to par, followed by a few more patch cycles over the following months to make it solid.
Re:"Done when it's finished" (Score:4, Insightful)
(http://ooz.net/~weasle/)
I'm sick and tired of software companies saying that such-and-such product will be "released when it's done" or "done when it's finished."
Since when has any software product ever been FINISHED when it's released? Usually -- and *especially* with PC games -- the release is full of bugs and requires a couple of quick patch cycles to bring up to par, followed by a few more patch cycles over the following months to make it solid.
Would you prefer them to release it when its half-done? This could be an interesting new business model - sell a half-completed product to generate revenue to finish the other half.Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that ID (iD, Id, ID, whatever the hell you want to call it) has bucked this trend. Granted, there have been quite a few patches for their games, but the games are always quite functional. Take for example the game "Rise of Nations" which I could not play for 15 minutes without it freezing and forcing me to reboot.
As far as the comment about "usually and especially with PC games", I've never seen a game on a console that had a patch. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Yes, patch cycles do happen. When you cease testing a product on 10 machines and begin testing it on 1000-10000, lots of weird bugs you didn't see before begin popping up as a result of video cards, drivers, sound cards, moon phases, etc. You don't need me to tell you this, but it seems some might need a friendly reminder.
Re:"Done when it's finished" (Score:4, Interesting)
This is great news! (Score:4, Funny)
Does anybody else remember... (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://slashdot.org/)
Daikatana? How everyone who was granted a preview said it looked to be amazing (gee whizz, I wonder if there's a connection) and it was only when it was released and the advertising money was already in the magazine's pockets that they declared that it sucked more than anything had ever sucked before?
I'm not saying that Doom 3 sucks. I'm just asking if you remember how much you believed that Daikatana didn't suck either.
In brief: let's wait for the reviews, rather than wetting our pants every time we get a sneak peek preview.
The reason for the season (Score:5, Insightful)
Firstly, it seems to me the phase of development D3 is in right now is polish. The graphics engine is more or less complete, which is demonstrated by the fact that the screenshots from last year compared to this years aren't much different. They've story-boarded the game's story like a Hollywood movie, so unless they're changing a fundamental story element (why?) they're just working on finishing the level designs and maybe enemy (and ally?) AI. I personally figured that that has been pretty much what they've been working on all this year, and why they would release this holiday season.
Now, this far into the development process, close to a final product, you don't fundamentally change everything just because you see some game clips from another company. I too was quite impressed with HL2, but I don't see why we can't just expect two great games. Carmack strikes me as an incredibly pragmatic person, and it really doesn't make sense to me to fundamentally change your development for an unreleased game.
What seems much more likely and actually has been hinted on is that they're delaying the game to so they can have a simultaneous xbox release. id has confirmed there will be an xbox port, and Carmack has been quoted saying Microsoft is offering them a pile of money if they have a simultaneous release. Although the xbox is just a PC variant, because of the fixed hardware and TV constraints (though xbox can output HDTV quality), optimizing the game for a system pretty close to D3's minimum requirements is going to be a slight challenge.
Fiscal year != calendar year (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.douglips.com/ | Last Journal: Friday December 03 2004, @08:30PM)
So, for id/Activision, fiscal year 2004 runs from April 2003 to March 2004.