2000 Year Old Roman d20 Up For Auction

dolo666 writes "There is a d20 for sale at Christie's. Titled; "A ROMAN GLASS GAMING DIE", this item dates to circa 2nd Century A.D., and it's likely to go for a mere $6k USD! Just think of the die-hard dice gamer on your list, this festive season! That would make all those late night Cthulhu missions with Lord Nekrull, my 16th level Assassin demi-god, a smashing good time!"

Actual use

[grub]

Modern scholarship has not yet established the game for which these dice were used.

Actually these are called Slave Dies and were popularised by the Roman Emperor Publius Helvius Pertinax in the mid 2nd century AD. During periods when professional gladiatorial combat was lacking, 400 slaves would be seperated into 20 groups of 20 each. The diplomat (or the Emporer himself) running the game would roll a Slave Die 4 times. The first time selected a group, the second a slave within the group. The 3rd and 4th rolls repeated this selection.

The two slaves would then be outfitted with crude weapons and ordered to fight to the death. Because slaves had horrific medical care the survivor of the battles usually died from infection later on.

If, in the odd event, the die rolls selected the same person twice then that slave would immediately be freed and given a not insubstantial amount of gold as it was deemed that the gods had smiled on this person.

It was a horribly stressful thing; you wouldn't want to be rolled once, but if that were the case you'd be praying for a second roll to select you.


actually.. I made that all up, sure sounds good though, eh? PS: f1st pr0st

Re:Actual use

[tipsymonkey]

Arg! I am actually interested in the use of this die!
I think that is the real story here. What types of games did the Roman's play with this? What culture / civ came up with it? Was it the Roman's or did they incorporate it from one of the areas that they conquered?

A die to die for?

[danormsby]

So this was a die to die for?

Re:A die to die for?

[Spudley]

No, but it was made of glass, so it was a hard die for the die-hard die fan.

Re:A die to die for?

[nocomment]

Can you imagine a game with these?

"How many points damage does a squigly line with 2 dots sort of next to each with tails coming out of them do?"

Re:A die to die for?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it means you just got eaten by a grue.

Re:Actual use

[Lord Kano]

Brilliant. I hereby dub you the king of first posters.

Re:Actual use

[krbvroc1]

Rumor has it that Wizards of the Coast has threatended suit based on a prior patent art claim. In addition, any attempts by ./'rs to reverse engineer the purpos of this die would be a DCMA violation.

Re:Actual use

[davezirk]

$100 says they were used for gambling.

Re:Actual use

[Anonymous Coward]

1000 sesterces says they were used for sex.

Re:Actual use

[D-Cypell]

actually.. I made that all up, sure sounds good though, eh? PS: f1st pr0st

Impressive!! Purely a product of your imagination but still in my top 10 list of most plausable things read on slashdot ever ;o)

Re:Actual use

[Martin Blank]

still in my top 10 list of most plausable things read on slashdot ever

And about as accurate as the other nine. :)

Re:Actual use

[Genrou]

Nice. Except that the emperor's name was actually Garius Gygax.

Re:Actual use

[advocate_one]

I hope you've tied up the TV rights to that game show...

Cease and Desist

[roman_mir]

Your use of the word "slave" is offensive to the patriotic americans and especially to Californians. Please start referencing to them as freedome challenged.

You...

[MoronGames]

"That would make all those late night Cthulhu missions with Lord Nekrull, my 16th level Assassin demi-god, a smashing good time!"

You, sir, are a nerd!
Care to play some time?

Re:You...

[Weaselmancer]

Except for the fact that Call of Cthulhu uses mostly d100.

Oh God did I just type that??? =)

Weaselmancer

Re:You...

[dameron]

Except for the fact that Call of Cthulhu uses mostly d100.

Oh God did I just type that??? =)

Weaselmancer

Pah!

If you were a real nerd you'd know that recent incarnations of Cthulhu (the game) use the d20 rules.

Feel better now... :)

-dameron

PVP said it best...

[ajiva]

I think PvP says it best:

http://pvponline.com/index.php3

CRAPICUS!

Re:PVP said it best...

[Alizarin Erythrosin]

For the future, i.e. not today's comic, hopefully this URL will work [pvponline.com]

Or a direct link to the image [pvponline.com] if that one doesn't work.

Re:PVP said it best...

[DCowern]

Oh come on... Romans did NOT play RPGs.

Think about it... they LIVED in an RPG. They had all the things glamorized by RPGs; swords, armor, mysticism, combat, stories of epic battles and quests, etc.

Actually... come to think about it... sounds kinda fun! Who's got the time machine? *g*

Overheard at the Coliseum...

[Branch_Dravidian]

Proconsul: "Oh $@#$@!! Not my Level 28 Thracian!"

Emperor: "Hold on... he's not dead yet. Roll it."

Proconsul: *Rolls D20*

Proconsul: "%#@@#&!!!"

Emperor: "A 10.. "

Emperor: *Peeks behind screen*

Emperor: "I'm very sorry, but Maximus has failed his saving throw..."

Emperor: *Makes thumbs-down gesture to crowd*

---Crowd boos

---Gurgle of dying gladiator from arena floor

Proconsul: (Muttering to self) "By Jupiter I swear that he will live to regret this day! There are many in the Senate who would welcome the elevation of a new Dungeon Master..."

As discussed in Monday's PVPonline

[twoshortplanks]

Scott Kurtz did a little scetch on this in his latest comic [pvponline.com]

bonus karma point.

[Artifex]

Thanks to your informative linking, now I have both a new bookmark and a new sig.

DND is THAT old?

[techno-vampire]

I had no idea DND went back that far. It makes me wonder where Gygax got his claims to have invented it.

Re:DND is THAT old?

[twoslice]

I think the patent had expired...

Re:DND is THAT old?

[isomeme]

Yes, but in the Roman era D&D, which is set in a mythic version of the medieval period, was considered a cutting-edge hyperfuturistic sci-fi game.

Re:DND is THAT old?

[child_of_mercy]

and it would've been post-apocalyptic to boot.

Re:DND is THAT old?

[Mathness]

It is a little know fact, but live rolepalying was huge in ancient times. A, now famous, religous figur, failed his saving throw at a critical point and ended up on a cross. Some days later the GM allowed a resurrection to occur, mainly for plot reasons.

Re:DND is THAT old?

[bsartist]

Not quite right. Jesus actually *made* his saving throw - that's why he was allowed to come back at all. Incidentally, that's also where the modern phrase "Jesus saves" came from.

Is that so?

[ActionPlant]

A d20, huh? Very cool. I'm certain some older games (like MELE) could be adapted to use this. Masquerade would be fun with it too.

And the fun isn't just in the variable. Imagine watching it roll and roll and roll and roll...

Could take a while to get the thing stopped.

Anyway, for the avid gamer and historian alike, the price is right.

Damon,

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Only these word come to mind:

[jawtheshark]

Alea iacta est!

Et Tu Brutas

[Anonymous Coward]

And now we finally know why it took over 20 stabs to fell Ceaser; Brutus, like many frustrated gamers, suffered from the profound disability of often rolling low on his hit die...

Re:Et Tu Brutas

[isomeme]

Actually, the problem was that Julus was a 14th level Emperor-General combined class with about 200 hit points, wearing a +2 toga of blade turning, and with daggers only doing 1d4 per hit, it took a lot of work to even make him notice he was being attacked, much less kill him.

Brute

[Compenguin]

You made a grammatical error with one of the words, "Brutus" is a second declension noun but -as is a first declenstion ending. Furthermore as Brutus is being addressed directly, the vocative singular ahould be used as opposed to the accusative plural. The form you were reaching for was "Brute" (with a macron over the e)

Re:Et Tu Brutas

[Anne_Nonymous]

And while we're making up stupid jokes...

What are the odds that the Christie's auctioneer will start the bidding with, "Hail, Caesar! Those who are about to *die* salute you!"?

D&D parody

[The-Pheon]

There is also a hilarious cgi version of this sketch, perhaps someone can post a link!

(DM) Utena- Galstat, you have entered the door to the north. You are now standing by yourself in a dark room. The pungent stench of mildew eminates from the wet dungeon walls.
Juri- Where are the Cheetos?
Utena- They're right next to you!
(Galstat) Anthy- I cast a spell!
Juri- Where's the Mountain Dew?
Utena- It's in the fridge, duh!
Anthy- I wanna cast a spell!
Juri- Can I have a Mountain Dew?
Utena- Yes, you can have a Mountain Dew, just go get it!
Anthy- I can cast any of these, on the list, right?
Utena- Yes, any of the first level ones.
Juri- I'm gonna get a soda, anybody want one? Hey, Grem I'm not in the room, right?
Utena- What room?
Anthy- I wanna cast magic missle!
Juri- The room where he's casting all these spells from!
Utena- he hasn't cast anything yet!
Anthy- I am, though, if you'd listen...I'm casting magic missle!
Utena- Why are you casting magic missle? There's nothing to attack here!
Anthy- I'm attacking the darkness!
(Laughter)
Utena- Fine, fine. You attack the darkness. There's an elf in front of you.
Anthy- Whoa!
Utena- Yeah, you guys can talk to eachother if you want.
Anthy- Hello, I am Galstat, sorcerer of light!
Elf (Nanami)- Then how come you had to cast magic missile?
(Laughter)
Utena- You guys are being attacked.
Juri- Do I see that happening?
Utena- No, you're outside, by the tavern.
Juri- Cool! I get drunk!
Utena- There are seven ogres surrounding you.
Elf (Nanami)- How could they surround us? I had Morton Kiden's magical watchdog cast!
Juri- I'm getting drunk! Are there any girls there?
Utena- No, you didn't.
Elf (Nanami)- I totally did! You asked me if I wanted any equipment before this adventure and I said no, but I need material components for all my spells, so I cast Morton Kiden's faithful watchdog.
Utena- But you never actually cast it!
Juri- Roll the dice to see if I'm getting drunk!
Utena- (dice rolling) Yeah, you are!
Juri- Are there any girls there?
Utena- Yeah!
Elf (Nanami)- I did, though, I completely said when you asked me...
Utena- No, you didn't! You didn't actually say that you were casting the spell, so now there's ogres, okay?
Juri- Ogres?! Man, I got an ogre-slaying knife that's got a +9 against ogres!
Utena- You're not there, you're getting drunk!
Juri- Okay, but if there's any girls there, I want to DO them!

Re:D&D parody

[the melon]

Its called summoner geeks

http://www.ifilm.com/filmdetail?ifilmid=220487

YES! That is the link

[The-Pheon]

Yes, thats it! I would mod you up if i hadn't posted already :)

Actually these guys did it better...

[MsGeek]

Rest In Peace, MTV's Downtown. [tvtome.com] We hardly knew ye. The 5th episode took place at a Sci-Fi/Horror/Gaming con, and got everything right. A classic. Shouts out to my homie Chris Prynoski. [tvtome.com].

Re:D&D parody

[randito]

8 bit D & D parody [cybermoonstudios.com]

Re:D&D parody

[The-Pheon]

Thats a different version than i was talking about. I hadn't seen this version, its also funny! I like the other one better however :)

Credit where credit is due...

[Cyno01]

The original audio of this is from the group The Dead Alewives [deadalewives.com], from my hometown. Look for it on p2p and try to find part 2, one of them brings their girlfriend along.

What am I bid for a Christie's http server

[ThePatrioticFuck]

Going... going... gone!

Wow

[BlueCodeWarrior]

I guess Ancient Roman civilization really WAS advanced... Wonder if they had Mountain Dew and Doritos, too...

And there was I...

[Aardpig]

...thinking that d20 was referring to a 20-Denarii coin. D'oh

Roman D&D

[psi_diddy]

I'm so sorry Publius, but you only rolled a XVI and you needed XVII to hit an Orc with Armor Class IX with your +I short short sword.

Re:Roman D&D

[fishbonez]

"Jesus saves, but everyone else in a 10 foot radius takes full damage from the fireball." --from some sig, can't remember who's

Bumper sticker

[geekoid]

"Jesus Saves! Takes half damage."

Why Buy It?

[The_Rippa]

Maybe because you are, as we say in Latin, a "dorkus malorkus."

A demi-god? Only 16th level?

[Denyer]

I bet the Romans played by the old rules! And they remembered what the letters TSR stood for!

TSR stands for

[4ginandtonics]

TSR = Tactical Studies Rules, you geeks.

TSR was the company, I believe, that started in about 1974 with the publication of "Dungeons & Dragons - Rules for Fantastic Medieval Wargames Campaigns Playable with Paper and Pencil and Minature figures"

I know, cuz' I read it on the front of the box, that I still have. ;-)

Re:TSR stands for

[geekoid]

Who doesn't know that?

Later it came to jokingly mean "To Sue Regularly" afer a certian woman, who despised gamers, became president of the company.

Re:A demi-god? Only 16th level?

[isomeme]

Tacere, Senatus Romanus?

Well, gee, thanks for driving up the price...

[jtnishi]

Yeah, well, now that slashdot readers know about it, there's no way anyone's going to be able to get a bargain on that die too...

Rats, and I was really hoping to surprise a friend with that too. Nothing says "I'm a geek" more than a nearly two-millenia old d20.

Sounds like a major assumption to me

[Angst Badger]

So what makes them think this was for gaming? Given the religious significance of regular polyhedra in the classical era -- including but not limited to the Pythagoreans -- it's much more likely that this was either a divination tool or a model representing someone's cosmological theory.

Re:Sounds like a major assumption to me

[Peyna]

Most Roman dice games involve a 6 sided die. It is still possible this was used for gaming, especially given the symbols on it look similar to those seen on other gaming dice.

Re:Sounds like a major assumption to me

[child_of_mercy]

a lot of roman gaming [freeserve.com] was done with knucklebones

with the rounded ends of the knuckles it was, effectively, four sided.

And your point is?

[MisterMook]

So what makes them think this was for gaming? Given the religious significance of regular polyhedra in the classical era -- including but not limited to the Pythagoreans -- it's much more likely that this was either a divination tool or a model representing someone's cosmological theory.

Buddy, I hate to break it to you but that's how a lot of gamers use them now. There is nothing more frightening than watching someone annoint their d20 with "holy water", enshrine them in their basement complete with icons

Re:Sounds like a major assumption to me

[glwtta]

it's much more likely that this was either a divination tool or a model representing someone's cosmological theory.

So, like it says - gaming.

Re:Sounds like a major assumption to me

[Lord_Dweomer]

" So what makes them think this was for gaming?"

Perhaps it was the character sheet with Cheetoh stains on it?

quality control

[Macrobat]

Holy crap! 2,000+ years old? My white plastic d20 from the D&D boxed set turned into a flaky sphere after about six months.

Re:quality control

[SharpFang]

'cause it's glass, not plastic.

Nowadays, they don't make good dice anymore.

Re:quality control

[Macrobat]

Um, yeah, I know. I was just making a (little) joke about how crappy the dice that came with the old boxed set were.

D&D dice

[BWJones]

Whoa. Back when we were playing D&D (20 some years ago), the cool thing was to come up with the coolest looking dice. Some of us made them out of epoxies, some of us bought cool looking clear dice from the local gaming shop and my friend Gary comes up with this six sided die that he claimed was from ancient Rome that he got from his dad. We laughed our asses off, thinking (as 13 year olds are prone to do) that multi sided die were a modern invention but........ Gary, I hope you still have it.

Re:D&D dice

[Fancia]

Multi-sided dice a modern invention? Please show me this single-sided die you allude to; it intrigues me.

Re:D&D dice

[Jason1729]

I have a single-side die I'd be happy to show you, but I put it in my Klein bottle for safe-keeping and now I can't get it back out.

Jason
ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]

Re:D&D dice

[frankthechicken]

Please show me this single-sided die you allude to

I believe that would be the mobius die, any players using it are generally considered to be a liability.

Re:D&D dice

[tstoneman]

A single-sided die... so depending on what you wanted to roll and how it was worded, you would always or never get it.

Sold! 1 lucky THAC0 die

[OrangeTide]

I'm getting it. I need a lucky die to roll my THAC0.

Yes. I'm a 2nd editioner, so what!

Re:Sold! 1 lucky THAC0 die

[geekoid]

"Yes. I'm a 2nd editioner, so what!" ...coughNEWBIEcough...

2000 years of geekiness

[grasshoppa]

Wow, I guess the geeks really did inherit the earth.

OK, I'm tossing in 'Eric and The Dreaded Gazebo'

[chowdmouse]

Just for the halibut...

(Not my Experience, I found it Out There(tm))

The Gazebo

This is a story of a DM (Ed) and a paladin (Eric) during a game of AD&D.

ED: You see a well-groomed garden. In the middle, on a small hill, you see a gazebo.
ERIC: A gazebo? What color is it?
ED: (Pause) It's white, Eric.
ERIC: How far away is it?
ED: About 50 yards.
ERIC: How big is it?
ED: (Pause) It's about 30 feet across, 15 feet high, with a pointed top.
ERIC: I use my sword to detect whether it's good.
ED: It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo!
ERIC: (Pause) I call out to it.
ED: It won't answer. It's a gazebo!
ERIC: (Pause) I sheathe my sword and draw my bow and arrows. Does it respond in any way?
ED: No, Eric. It's a gazebo!
ERIC: I shoot it with my bow (rolls to hit). What happened?
ED: There is now a gazebo with an arrow sticking out of it.
ERIC: (Pause) Wasn't it wounded?
ED: Of course not, Eric! It's a gazebo!
ERIC: (Whimper) But that was a plus-three arrow!
ED: It's a gazebo, Eric, a gazebo! If you really want to try to destroy it, you could try to chop it wih an axe, I suppose, or you could try to burn it, but I don't know why anybody would even try. It's a @#%$*& gazebo!
ERIC: (Long pause - he has no axe or fire spells) I run away.
ED: (Thoroughly frustrated) It's too late. You've awakened the gazebo, and it catches you and eats you.
ERIC: (Reaching for his dice) Maybe I'll roll up a fire-using mage so I can avenge my paladin...

At this point, the increasingly amused fellow party members restored a modicum of order by explaining what a gazebo is. This is solely an afterthought, of course, but Eric is doubly lucky that the gazebo was not situated on a grassy knoll.

and it's likely a fake

[Anonymous Coward]

note that the pedigree of this item is a single
statement that the thing was bought by the sellers
father in Egypt in the 1920's.

That is the kind of pedigree that would bid this
item up to about $20 as a curio.

The seller is smoking crack, as is anyone who bids
more than a few bucks on that thing.

Re:and it's likely a fake

[Fnkmaster]

Seems like a lot of work to make a fake just to auction it off for a target price of 4-6 grand. I mean, faking a 50-100 thousand dollar painting, I can see. But this? Waste of time.

Re:and it's likely a fake

[child_of_mercy]

I think you'll find it's easy enough to authenticate the glass.

Ugh

[NanoGator]

"That would make all those late night Cthulhu missions with Lord Nekrull, my 16th level Assassin demi-god, a smashing good time!"

I feel sorry for the poor kid who'll never be concieved.

Re:Ugh

[The Munger]

I feel sorry for the poor kid who'll never be concieved.

Would you really consider this person bringing a child into the world?

Use

[Anonymous Coward]

Modern scholarship has not yet established the game for which these dice were used. Obviously they were used for Ulterius Carcerae et Draconae

After careful examination..

[D-Cypell]

...Historians were amazed to see the words 'patent pending 44BC' in small print on the die.

Re:After careful examination..

[bar-agent]

How would they know that Christ was going to be born in ~44 years? Hmmm?

Re:After careful examination..

[corbettw]

'Cause the die was used to tell the future. That's what the patent covered. Jeez, didn't you RTFA?

Re:After careful examination..

[Piquan]

Boy, when that clears the HRPTO it'll be worth a pretty dinarius. 44BC, eh? Should be any day now.

View my auctions - same goods for less!

[raehl]

I have a dutch auction for "Clue You Need to Get a Life". There are 10 items in this auction with a starting bid of $0.10. The winner(s) of this auction will receive a clue that they need to get a life*, and save a bundle of money over getting the same goods from the 2000 year old d20 auction. As a special bonus, shipping and handling is free!

* New life not included.

Re:View my auctions - same goods for less!

[gl4ss]

well..

i'd say the collectors likely to bid for this have much more 'life' than we do.. ..which is kinda sad.

Wow.

[immanis]

Even the Ancient Roman's had bad taste in gaming mechanics. ... (duck) ...

Let the debates begin. Muahahahaha!

/. effect extension

[pimpinmonk]

I think posting this on /. is the dumbest move ever for someone hoping to buy the die. Putting this auction in front of possibly the largest assembly of D&D players in the universe is not going to help keep that price down! I predict it will sell to some sorry/savvy geek for 10g's at least.

It will sell for more than $6,000

[eric777]

For those not often used to bidding at major auction houses - the estimates are always very conservative. An auction is judged to be succesful if many items beat their estimates.

Reminds me of...

[kwiqsilver]

One of the AD&D 1st Edition books.
They show a picture of a wizard, barbarian, etc. sitting around with parchment and dice, and the wizard is telling a newcomer something like "We're playing a game where we pretend to be students and workers in a post-industrial society."

That and the picture of the plate-mail clad fighter jumping into the wizard's arms when he sees the rust monster make the 1st Ed. books keepers.

Did the Bible mention Roman dice?

[Maul]

Matthew 27:35
Mark 15:24
Luke 23:34
John 19:24

I've heard some people claim that when the Roman soldiers "cast lots" as mentioned here, they actually played a dice game to see who would get Jesus' clothing. It doesn't seem to mention dice though. *Shrugs*

Re:Did the Bible mention Roman dice?

[Chalybeous]

I dunno about Roman dice, but I seem to recall some notion dating from around the same time, in either the Bible or the Torah, which said that God plays dice with the universe. If memory serves, the person who imparted this information to me X number of years ago was correcting Einstein...

Meanwhile...

[Call Me Black Cloud]

That would make all those late night Cthulhu missions with Lord Nekrull, my 16th level Assassin demi-god, a smashing good time!"

Meanwhile, I'll still be enjoying nights with your wife.

Great.....

[Lord_Dweomer]

Now watch WoTC roll out a new antique looking "Roman D20" game and jack up the price a few grand. As if they weren't charging through the nose already.

Gives new meaning to the phrase...

[V_M_Smith]

Jesus Saves!

And takes 1/2 damage...

Bit of Latin trivia that fits in here

[dar]

My Latin teacher (mumble mumble years ago) told me this:

In English, the sentence "The die is cast." Can be read two ways
1)The die (cube) has been thrown.
2)The die (form) has been filled and set.

But both readings mean the same thing - something that has already been done cannot be changed.

The Latin versions of the above sentences have the same correspondence. And again both readings mean the same.

Don't remember the exact Latin - it was a looong time ago.

Re:The question is...

[Grr]

Well since it's covered in strange symbols it would only require mild persuasion to convince the dungeon master, that today the round thingy with the squigly bit means you scored a critical hit.

Re:"-1 overrated"?!

[child_of_mercy]

and you've never thought gaming with a crooked dice might get your head punched in or worse?

I'd lose that habit mate.

Re:Please Explain

[dougnaka]

and you think that this will somehow highten the excitement of some seemingly unrelated game of which your mastery is directly proportional to your sex appeal.

I believe you mean "inversely proportional" to your sex appeal, as the more adept players of Dungeons & Dragons frequently lack basic hygene.

inversely

Re:Please Explain

[geekoid]

"I just don't get it."

you need to get a sense of humor.