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United States Entertainment Games

Sports Videogame Student Enticements Banned 61

Posted by simoniker from the what-does-superintendent-chalmers-think? dept.
Thanks to the Miami Herald for their article discussing the banning a Florida school's plans to use sports-based videogames as a motivator for students taking physical education. According to the piece: "Fort Walton Beach High School wanted to use a PlayStation as part of a team sports course in the next school year as a way of motivating more students to take physical education", but "Superintendent Don Gaetz halted registration for the course Tuesday, calling it 'an idea whose time will never come.'" In a situation which sees "obesity rising among teens and that more than half of the state's high school students not participating in any physical activity at school last year", could attracting students with videogames actually be a valid approach?
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Sports Videogame Student Enticements Banned More

Sports Videogame Student Enticements Banned

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  • Dance Dance Revolution (Score:5, Insightful)

    by sjorgnsn ( 514708 ) on Saturday February 21, 2004 @10:54AM (#8348982)
    In High School, when I discovered the DDR machine at an arcade, I always imagined how cool it would be to show up to school one day, and have a machine or two waiting in the gym.

    Combined with a weightlifting or co-ed aerobics class, this is a luring way to weight loss. I don't see why some school somewhere hasn't picked up on this "aerobic entertainment" yet. I think it would be a good way to get all those kids who beg their Dr. for a note to stay out of PE back in the active world.

    • Re:Dance Dance Revolution (Score:5, Informative)

      by Lovebug2000 ( 195893 ) on Saturday February 21, 2004 @11:16AM (#8349057)
      Yeah, and someone else had the same great idea:
      a bit of a google search turns up this [adn.com].
      • Interesting, but looking at the pictures with the article, it looks like somebody made a boneheaded decision. They spend a couple hundred bucks on a playstation, a game and a mat. If they had dug deep and spent another 20 bucks, they could have had twice as many people using the mats at a time.

        Another weird thing is that they put the mat straight on a gym floor. Maybe these kids who are much lighter than me won't have a problem, but I'm sure that mat would take a long walk under me if it wasn't on someth
        • They spend a couple hundred bucks on a playstation, a game and a mat. If they had dug deep and spent another 20 bucks, they could have had twice as many people using the mats at a time.

          With an XBox you wouldn't have as many different DDR games (and I've heard that the particular version on XBox is a bit harder than most), but you could've had 4 people at a time.

    • Re:Dance Dance Revolution (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      As a lazy, fat bastard myself, I have to admit that DDR is as close to an exercise program as I have ever gotten. It's also very good for building muscle coordination.

      At the very least it's better than what my high school had us doing for PE about 10 years ago - square dancing *shudder* - even sex ed was less humiliating than that!

    • Re:Dance Dance Revolution (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      My High School has a freakishly popular DDR club. I've never been (it meets on the same day as Computer Club, and I'm President of that), but I hear its fun.
    • "Combined with a weightlifting or co-ed aerobics class, this is a luring way to weight loss. I don't see why some school somewhere hasn't picked up on this "aerobic entertainment" yet. I think it would be a good way to get all those kids who beg their Dr. for a note to stay out of PE back in the active world."

      It wouldn't get those kids back. They'd still get beat up by the jocks for playing that game. In fact, you'd probably get beat up more if you were any good at it and could impress girls. Competitio

  • What is the purpose of PE except to separate the strong and physically endowed from the weak and genetically shortchanged?

    While exercise is an important activity, should the schools be in the business of providing instruction in exercise? Even if so, should it be a requirement and should it be graded? A student with palsy will always fail through no fault of his own.

    In the end, PE provides no preparation for life which other classes at least provide a semblence of. There is nothing that PE provides that cannot be acquired via after-school activities. There is no "how many situps can you do in one minute" tests for any job that one would reasonably encounter in the private sector.

    PE has outlived its purpose and should be done away with. If the result is a generation of obese kids, then so be it.

    • Re:I question the necessity of PE altogether (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ProtoCat ( 452381 ) on Saturday February 21, 2004 @11:10AM (#8349029) Homepage
      Many schools, the last time I looked, weren't actually using a letter based grade anymore, they were simply using 'Pass' or 'Fail'. Theoretically, though I'm sure there are PE instructors out there who prove otherwise, it's worth stating...

      You are not being graded at all based upon if you can do something or not. You're PE grade has nothing to do with if you did a certain number of situps by a certain ammount of time. Your grade has everything to do with if you bothered to try at all -- If you participated and made the effort.

      There's plenty of students who wish to use whatever condition they have, real or imagined as an excuse to not even attempt. There are, of course, certain situations where this is entirely valid... However, I think it's an alarming trend in society, especially to be embraced by students where the problem isn't an obstacle so much as it is a crutch to wave in people's faces.

      A good PE instructor isn't out to make anyone feel left out or inferior. It's to make everyone try and work together and improve what they can and find out what strengths they may have. And this is coming from a mediocre PE student at best. I couldn't run, I couldn't do a billion situps, I was generally weak and couldn't shoot a basket to save my life... but I sure kicked my class's ass at dodgeball.

      On another note -- While I find DDR's idea of electronic music to be kinda fruity and I think a lot of it is silly, I do see merit in people using it as a good excuse for exercise. I've known several people who shed a lot of weight over one summer when they took up DDR and cut down on the soda. I almost envy them.

      I think perhaps Konami could find a market in producing an 'Educational' version of DDR for use in American schools. I'd actually support such an idea if executed properly.
      • You are not being graded at all based upon if you can do something or not. You're PE grade has nothing to do with if you did a certain number of situps by a certain ammount of time. Your grade has everything to do with if you bothered to try at all -- If you participated and made the effort.

        While I agree that this should be the case, there are still many schools, at least in my area, that still grade PE based on ability and not on effort. (All the schools I know of that do this are public schools.) For ex
        • He [PE instructor]has a clipboard on which he tracks the number of laps completed by each student, and at the end of the class he assigns a grade: A if you completed 15 laps, B if you completed 14 laps, C for 13 laps, D for 12 laps, and F if anything less.

          That's terrible. I've never been able to run a full lap, even at my best physical shape. (I have asthma, and it was really severe when I was a child, so I've never really learned to run).

          I guess I was lucky that my teachers gave us "A"s as long as
      • "There's plenty of students who wish to use whatever condition they have, real or imagined as an excuse to not even attempt. There are, of course, certain situations where this is entirely valid... However, I think it's an alarming trend in society, especially to be embraced by students where the problem isn't an obstacle so much as it is a crutch to wave in people's faces."

        I think you're forgetting about the vast majority of the cases. These are people who while they might want to make an effort, decide

      • A good PE instructor isn't out to make anyone feel left out or inferior. It's to make everyone try and work together and improve what they can and find out what strengths they may have. And this is coming from a mediocre PE student at best. I couldn't run, I couldn't do a billion situps, I was generally weak and couldn't shoot a basket to save my life... but I sure kicked my class's ass at dodgeball.

        In theory, yes this is true. But in reality, when you go to a public school gym class you got a bare minimum

      • Hell No! My high school uses letter grades to judge physical performance!

        I received C's in PE because the grade was composed of two parts:

        50 % Written Tests
        50 % Absolute Physical Performance

        For running a mile, it went something like

        A = 5 minutes
        B = 6 minutes
        C = 7 minutes
        D = 8 minutes
        F = 9 minutes

        Simliar scales existed for pullups, push-ups, etc.

        As you might guess, I got A's in the written tests and F's in the other...

        Only C's ever in my life too....

        In case you are wondering, I am not the stereoty
        • That is simply a horrible policy. No public school I went to used it thankfully. We were graded mostly on participation.

          I realize that you are probably making those numbers up, but i was on the varsity track team at my high school (though not as a runner) and I would have been hard pressed to get a C in your gym class. I always loved the hammer throw. It was like artillery, but you didn't have to mess with gunpowder. :-)
          • I realize that you are probably making those numbers up

            That's what I got for going to a private school....
            No, I am not making those numbers up! PE coaches there were not the 'academic' kind at all.

            I improved from running a mile in 10+ minus to 8:30, still didn't get me more than an F! (I think 8 min was the max for an D)

            I did have one friend that ran it in 4:30. Needless to say, he lapped me before I got half way around... Spooky!
    • I can't entirely agree with this. Yes, teachers need to be sensitive to the less able sportsmen in the class, but there are vital lessons in life learned in PE lessons. Such as, discipline and teamwork - two traits that have been far more use in my adult life than algerbra or familiarity with the works of shakespear.
      • Such as, discipline and teamwork - two traits that have been far more use in my adult life than algerbra or familiarity with the works of shakespear.

        If PE is supposed to teach you that, why are there so many group projects in every other class? I hated nothing more than being graded on a group effort in classes in which I normally could do well on my own, because it meant balancing the effort between people without suffering by a reduced grade. Still, I did it, over and over and over again, and now you t

    • Re:I question the necessity of PE altogether (Score:5, Insightful)

      by damiam ( 409504 ) on Saturday February 21, 2004 @11:21AM (#8349096)
      What is the purpose of algebra except to separate the smart and mentally endowed from the stupid and cranially shortchanged?

      While thinking is an important activity, should the schools be in the business of providing instruction in algebra? Even if so, should it be a requirement and should it be graded? A student with mental retardation will always fail through no fault of his own.

      In the end, algebra provides no preparation for life which other classes at least provide a semblence of. There is nothing that algebra provides that cannot be acquired via after-school activities. There is no "how fast can you factor this quadratic equation" test for any job that one would reasonably encounter in the private sector.

      Algebra has outlived its purpose and should be done away with. If the result is a generation of stupid kids, then so be it.

      • Parent should be modded "Insightful" (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Pluvius ( 734915 ) <pluvius3@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Saturday February 21, 2004 @04:55PM (#8351223) Journal
        Most people who have a problem with PE because it's "pointless and ego-busting" forget the fact that, to a jock, academic subjects are exactly the same. And I don't think most people would advocate the abolition of schooling just because some people don't like the subjects that schools teach.

        Remember, schools are supposed to be in the occupation of education. That includes education of the body as much as it does the mind.

        Rob
        • Most people who have a problem with PE because it's "pointless and ego-busting" forget the fact that, to a jock, academic subjects are exactly the same

          When making this point, though, remember one thing about school starting from high school onwards (in most areas): algebra and basic mathematics are not taught in the same classroom.

          My PE classes in high school consisted of roughly 50-100 students, with no division based on ability. The kid with a bad limp from a car accident was in the same class as the s
      • Makes me think of Kurt Vonnegut.
      • WRONG. Algebra is found in nearly every single occupation that uses math at all. In particular the business sector uses algebra on a daily basis. There is no end to the number of problems where one has at least two known values and needs to find a third unknown value.

        Besides, it's not necessarily the skill used to "factor this quadratic equation," it's the abstract level of thinking required to perform the calculation.

        Hmmm...wait a second...your email address includes mathlete and perhaps I am preachin
        • You just proved my point for me. I was not advocating not teaching algebra, but I was countering the grandparent's point about PE. I personally am quite good at math, and enjoy it. I also play varsity soccer, and I think that some type PE is necessary (although not very useful as it's traditionally taught). Physical activity is necessary in many jobs, while basic algebra (solving sets of linear equations, solving quadratics, graphing polynomials, etc.) is not widely used in most occupations. Generally, the

    • Re:I question the necessity of PE altogether (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I disagree - it's entirely necessary and very useful. How?
      Exercising and staying healthy is an extremely important part of life. It's not one you have to participate in if you don't want to - just as you don't have to learn basic math, if you're dead set on being ignorant.
      A good PE class gives instruction on how to do these things, and introduces students to a wide variety of activities. Sure, they could figure these things out after class, but you could say that about Calculus as well.
      It's just like
    • I don't know what kind of highschool you went to, but PE grades in my school never had anything to do with athletic ability. You could be the most uncoordinated person in the world and get an A or a B. It was mostly a participation grade. Furthermore, PE and health class grades were not included in your GPA.
  • Oh no! It promotes sitting on your arse! Yes, but in order to be allowed to sit on your arse and play video games, you've first got to do some exercise. This seems to be the reasoning, so if this is what would happen anyway, but without the physical exercise bit, how on earth is this system a bad thing?

  • bmtss bmtss bmtss (Score:5, Funny)

    by 0x20 ( 546659 ) on Saturday February 21, 2004 @11:10AM (#8349033) Homepage
    could attracting students with videogames actually be a valid approach?

    Sure, if they're teaching Dance Dance Revolution.

    *pictures my 300-pound high school gym coach playing DDR, in slow motion

    On second thought, I don't think it'll work.

  • Enlighten me? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by CelticWhisper ( 601755 ) <celticwhisper@ g m a i l . c om> on Saturday February 21, 2004 @11:29AM (#8349155)
    You know...I never really understood the appeal of sports games. I was always of the mindset that if one wants to play sports, one should do so for real and not play a computer simulation of his or her sport of choice.

    Now...I suppose that having students play videogames in class WOULD raise some eyebrows-incredulity in parents and administrators, interest in students-but wouldn't it be somewhat counter-intuitive? If PE is supposed to promote physical activity and fitness...sports or no sports, it's still a videogame, and still exercises only the hands and mind. (then again, exercising the mind isn't a bad ides)

    Were they to use DDR as some others have mentioned, it would at least make more sense. Hell...I'd have enjoyed gym class far more than only in my final year of high school if I could've danced (badly, mind you...apparently we Irish have no coordination, Michael Flatley notwithstanding ;-) ) to Look to the Sky or Midnight Blaze.

    Oh, yeah, the Irish bit was a joke-no offense intended (I'm insulting myself as much as anyone else anyway)
    • You know...I never really understood the appeal of sports games. I was always of the mindset that if one wants to play sports, one should do so for real and not play a computer simulation of his or her sport of choice.

      I'd love to play quidditch for real, but none of my brooms gets airborn... your insensitive clod!

    • Re:Enlighten me? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Night Goat ( 18437 )
      I think the reason people find sports games so fun is because they're the same as other fantasy games, except you know the rules coming in. It's more familiar. If you think about it, the goal is the same, get a lot of points, while preventing your opponent from doing well. Plus, I think a lot of jocks like video games but won't admit to themselves that a nerdy pasttime like playing video games actually is fun. But that's just my observations based on having a roommate who only plays sports games, and won't
  • I play less games these days because I find they're a quick hit.

    If you're running around you get a longer lasting pick-me-up but I find that with games you just get addicted so while it's good for the first 10 hours you then get a bit depressed and withdrawn.

    I'd really like to be able to combine the two like:

    - DDR
    - the arcade games where you do something physical; the rowing games, paddle games, mountain biking, surf, skate, racing games that move you, VR games that get you to move... etc

    The prob

  • Playstation? (Score:3, Informative)

    by superpulpsicle ( 533373 ) on Saturday February 21, 2004 @12:27PM (#8349438)
    If you're going to promote team sport, at least do it right.

    Get a couple PCs on a LAN on the gym floor with wolfenstein enemy territory or something. Nothing like having your secret admirer take a bullet for you. The losers have to do 200 pushups... there you go.

  • Hey! I've been there (Score:3, Interesting)

    by stuph ( 664902 ) on Saturday February 21, 2004 @12:43PM (#8349501)
    Good to see good ole Okaloosa County doin' something grand...

    In that county school system (my old one, I was at Niceville High), Fort Walton Beach high school would get the "less desirable" kids.. I guess they were just tryin' to help some of 'em get through school, w/out failing in PE, as they have enough problems already

    And yes, in Okaloosa County, we had to take 2 years of PE classes, and they were in fact graded, A-F.. one semister was a dual health education/PE class, but the others generally used "improvement" methods.. so however well you did at the beginning of the semister in running a mile, push-ups, sit ups, long jumps.. You damn well do better by the end of the semister, or you would in fact get a crappy grade, or worse.. and I knew people who failed PE, which then in fact seriously affected their lives (one of whom dropped out)

    • one semister was a dual health education/PE class, but the others generally used "improvement" methods.. so however well you did at the beginning of the semister in running a mile, push-ups, sit ups, long jumps.. You damn well do better by the end of the semister, or you would in fact get a crappy grade, or worse..

      My high school had something like that. At some point a couple students wised up and "sand-bagged" their performance during the initial evaluation so that at the end of the semester they'd

  • Heh. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ivern76 ( 665227 ) on Saturday February 21, 2004 @01:34PM (#8349807)

    A good start to help control obesity among teens would be to stop putting candy and soda machines in their schools. Having them sit on their ass for an hour every day playing Mario Kart would *not* help.

    • Re:Heh. (Score:3, Informative)

      by Lord_Dweomer ( 648696 )
      Why punish those of us who can control our eating habits though? Why should I be unable to get candy and pop just because other people are fat? It's the same thing as the girl who sued McDonalds for getting her fat. Even if McDonalds hadn't existed, that girl would still be overweight because she either has a genetic predisposition for it, or because she has a problem with overeating.

      Removing the candy and pop isn't the cure. Educating people how not to get fat is the cure.

  • All we need is for someone to invent a DDR analogue which works your upper body as well, and then you can play all the videogames you like in PE!
    • When you workout what you need to do is work the large muscles, most of which are in your legs. Well, that's what I've been told. That's why jogging or even walking is such a good wourkout.

      Maybe just DDR is a better workout than you think!

  • My school actually does let you play DDR (Score:4, Funny)

    by redfiveneo ( 692968 ) on Saturday February 21, 2004 @02:39PM (#8350295)
    At my high school, they let anyone bring a PS1/2, a copy of DDR, and one of the dance mats- and they'll let you hook it up to one of the TVs used for the exercise vids.

    With the bringing of so much expensive equipment (namely the Playstation) there were some concerns about theft, but it's a small school, and there haven't been any problems yet, except people try to bribe others into using their Playstations :).

    It seems to work well and encourage those who don't like "conventional" work-outs. But the sports video games... eh, I don't think playing Madden will encourage anyone to acutally play football.
  • I think anything is better than running laps or running around in the dirt. It was always so pointless, there was never any satisfaction in running around in circles for 20 minutes. If they'd found a better way of making the act of moving ENTERTAINING, then gym would have been a nice change from sitting in a hot, dry classroom. I didn't like throwing a ball around, but I would have LOVED playing DDR for 50 minutes. I think this goes to show how much educators are out of touch with the world they're teaching
    • At my school a lot of the coaches had everybody pair off with whoever they were closest to in speed, and then made those two race.

      It actually helps. You've never going to be entertained if you don't want to be, and all it takes is some kind of goal if you do.

      After all, winning a race is exactly as good as getting a good score in a game, really.
      • How about allowing a mix? DDR, Running, other activities. A little like elementary school PE, but I got a real kick out of dodgeball. Too bad they banned that here in our district. Seems some parents got angry when one their kids got hit in the face by a foam ball.
  • Studies show that videogames create a sense of athletic competence. Which means that there could be a danger of replacing athletics completely *if* VGs are played in lieu of sports.

    At the same time, you could say that some kids (esp. obese ones) seek videogames because they can master them and win, whereas they always get their ass kicked in PE. Thus, bringing videogames in PE class would help them get back a bit by actually winning for once in a while (or at least leveling the chances). So even obese kid
  • Perhaps a more appropriate question would be
    whether public schools are a valid approach.
    Forget phy ed, what about physics? I'd rather
    send my child into rotating knives than a
    public school.

    • Re:Perhaps (Score:2, Interesting)

      by CuriHP ( 741480 )
      I took physics in high school. A very good course in basic newtonian physics, from a very good instuctor who was a retired NASA astrophysist.
    • I take offense! I went to a public high school and now I have a nice respectable job as an SA ... wait, nevermind.
  • As an aussie, I've always found american football more than a little perplexing. But recently someone showed me Madden NFL and suddenly I understand it intimately.

    It is hard to get an understanding of the deeper tactical levels involved in a sport when all you know is the basic rules that apply to you as an individual player. Sports games often give you a chance to experience the perspective of the coach, and therefore understand your own role in the team much better.

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