Controversial Manhunt Game Rated 'R' in Ontario

GrimSean writes "Well, it looks like someone in power up here in Ontario finally noticed the level of violence in Rockstar's Manhunt, as the Ontario Film Review Board has given it an R rating, much like a movie. The Toronto Star has an article here and the CBC has also covered the story - according to an article at CJAD, businesses could be fined a minimum of $25,000 Canadian for selling it to minors. It seems like they've completely sidestepped the ESRB's M rating and gone directly to the Restricted to 'control the thing'."

This is OK

I see no problem with this - now all those whining "save the kids" types can't complain and get the game completely banned.

Good decision, I applaud Ontario.

Re:This is OK

One could consider it good or bad though, on one hand videogames being judged by a group well versed in making these types of judgements is defintely a plus, but on the otherhand this group probably doesn't have experience with games and dealing with their level of interactivity....

Some would even argue about their competency to judge films.

I seem to remember that a few years ago there was some artsy type film that involved some females talking to each other about their sex lives. No actualy sex, just talking about it, and the MPAA wanted to rate it NC-17.

Ok, after five minutes of Googling i think i have it narrowed down:

"And some suspect that the MPAA rates films about female sexuality tougher than those focusing on men. For example, an independent teen comedy called Coming Soon that was a hit at the Seattle International Film Festival has had trouble finding a domestic distributor (20th Century Fox bought international rights) after being rated NC-17. The film, which is about three teenage girls who talk frankly about sex and their interest in it, contains no nudity and no violence. The filmmaker has said that when she accused the board of having a gender-based double standard she was told that the board was merely reflecting the mores of the nation."

(Excerpt from this site [virgin.net])

So if we can't even trust the review boards to judge movies fairly, how can we expect them to judge video games?

Re:This is OK

Exactly!

And kids who really want it can ask their parents... forcing the parents to be involved.

And for those parents who don't have a problem with it can just go buy it for their kids.

Re:This is OK

Funny. I was going to post pretty much this exact same comment, and figured I'd be modded as a troll but was going to do it anyway since free speech rules:)

I have no problem with this. I wish more areas would do this. Rather than whine about the games themselves, go after the fucking bastards who sell extremely violent video games to 10 year olds. Hit them in the wallet where it hurts.

I mean credit to the ESRB thing, but a certificate is only useful if it actually does anything. As it is now, the "M" certificate isn't a warning, it's a selling point. If there's an existing structure in place for movies and it can be legally applied to video games, so be it. Start fining these stores that sell these games to kids large chunks of money and perhaps they may start enforcing the ratings.

A similar approach has worked to a certain degree to stop kids buying cigarettes.

In short, kudos to Ontario!

Power Grab?

Seems the only way that they can do this is via a very loose definition of film in the Theaters act.

Off topic: I noticed this section of the Theater Act:

National anthem

21. (1) The national anthem shall be played in every theatre at the commencement of the first or at the conclusion of the last exhibition or performance given each day. R.S.O. 1990, c. T.6, s. 21 (1).

Can our Ontario readers inform me if this is really done?

They'll get around it

I hope these people realize that kids will get their hands on the games regardless of what the law says. I mean, if not a licensed copy, then a pirated copy off of bittorrent or something like that. At the end of the day, it's the parents that have to make sure that their kids don't spend their time on the wrong game, not the retailers.

Film Board Rating Video Games

If you read the story carefully, it is the Ontario Film Board that is rating video games. As I watched the CBC TV on this news story, the representative from the Ontario Film Board mentioned that Manhunt has every element that contributes to the R-rating, as in film: excessive foul language, grotesque violence, etc. If we were to rate video games the same way as film, then a lot of other games should have gotten the R-rating as well, yet this is the first video game that has received such a rating. This implies that they are looking for a quick and easy way to regulate the sale of violent game to minors, and the ESRB rating is not as effective as they like.

My thoughts...

...I think it's good. I usually think that this whole videogame violence thing is blown out of proportion, and it is, but here, I think they made the right choice. Manhunt is just really disgusting - it's not at all like Grand Theft Auto, where the violence is humorous (a la a grown-up cartoon)...no, the violence here is disturbing...everybody I know who played it felt dirty, like they were some serial killer or something. It's really an uncomfortable game for most people I know. And the gameplay itself isn't that great (mediocre stealth fare), and it just seems like a cash-in on the media attention...yeah, I think Ontario was more than justified.

On a side note, sometimes I think that (in the U.S., don't know much about how it's done in Canada) we should just switch to movie ratings for games. I don't know if it would be a good idea for the same board or whatever to rate them, but it's just that PG and R are more familiar to most people than E or M. And they are kinda on the same "scale" anyway (PG-13 = T, R = M), so it might be a good thing.

Oh, and does anybody else feel that game ratings are a little...big? The dirtiest R-rated movie can get away with a little tiny square on the back of the box, but then videogames have to have a huge, ugly E or T or whatever plastered on the front and a large "descriptor" on the back. It's not that I'm against visability of the ratings, but I just think that videogames and movies should be treated more alike (it's annoying when Target refuses to sell M-rated games to minors, but don't have the same policy for R-rated movies, etc.)

That was quite a rant there...enjoy.

Re:My thoughts...

Manhunt is just really disgusting - it's not at all like Grand Theft Auto, where the violence is humorous (a la a grown-up cartoon)...no, the violence here is disturbing...

Could it be (*gasp* *shock*) that violence in real life really is "disgusting"? Perhaps the designers were trying to make you feel bad about killing all those people?

...everybody I know who played it felt dirty, like they were some serial killer or something. It's really an uncomfortable game for most people I know.

Why, it seems I'm right.

Ontario

Hmm, this is not much different than what the ESRB is asking. The ESRB suggests Manhunt should be 17+ while the R rating in Ontario means 18+ (it's different from an MPAA R) so we're talking a difference of one year.

Another interesting thing, in the U.S. ratings are voluntary but in Canada they're decided by the Provincial governments, and (in Ontario at least) they're a bit stricter than the U.S., i.e. a few of the more extreme American R-rated films (Eyes Wide Shut, Hannibal) and all(?) NC-17 films get the 18+ rating in Canada.

Ironically, the 18+ rating is slapped on so many films it's not seen as a big deal. That's why Canada got the uncut version of American Psycho in theatres, while the producers wanted to avoid the NC-17 in the U.S., in Canada it was going to get rated 18+ anyway so there was no point in making cuts. Crash similarly had no problems in getting shown in Canadian theatres.

Maybe we'll get 'Canadian' versions of games with extra nudity and violence, since the 18+ rating is the strictest available there's no reason to hold back.

Re:Ontario

> hey're a bit stricter than the U.S

No they're not. While Matrix Reloaded was rated R down South (and got to become the most profitable R-rated movie), it was just 14A here. There's a bit of a cultural gap between the acceptance of violence and sexuality between Canada and US. I guess movies get judged more harshly on sexuality down south than here; but here, movies get judged more critically on violence. Especially brutal realistic violence, and not the cartoony Matrix-kind.

Also, remember that these are *provincial* ratings, so they tend to vary. As you can imagine, in the more liberal Quebec, the ratings for sexual content are FAR less strict.

Rockstar Games Open Letter

Dear Ontario Film Review Board,

We, and the stakeholders, thank you for dramatically increasing public interest in our addictively fun game of death, destruction, and mayhem. Slow sales have been a bit of a problem, but now, young adults everywhere are lusting after the (almost) unattainable beauty that is Manhunt for PS2. Coming soon for Xbox and PC.

Sincerely,
Rockstar Games

A game Australians won't see

Too bad in Australia they refuse to give an R rating to games.
We didn't see GTA until they had removed a scene in which you see a car rocking, windows steamed and can then get out and kill the woman and take the money. Other games have suffered a similar fate, like Carmageddon.
This is a strange fate for a country in which 18-24 year olds make up a very large portion of the gaming market - particularly console gaming.

You'll need to do better than that!

As a gun-fearing UK-type, I'm actually quite astonished that this is new for you guys. It's no wonder Senator Libermann hasn't been locked up yet!

Ever since Night Trap on the Mega CD, games have been regulated by the Britsh Board of File Classification. They're *video* games, and have been treated as such under the law. The publishers submit their games to be rated voluntarily in the main, but the BBFC would have had no qualms about slamming an 18 certificate on Manhunt, submission or no.

I don't see how people can seriously argue against this. I now fully understand why the whole selling games to minors (was that Washington?) was such a big deal! Here I was thinking that retailers were just disregarding the law :) These games shouldn't be in the hands of minors, a voluntary ESRB rating simply isn't enough to justify controlling a character who chokes people to death with a plastic bag and then the player is "rewarded" with a pretty cut-scene of it. The fact that I personally find that quite disturbing and morally reprehensible doesn't really bother me, it's been given an 18 certificate and firmly stamped as being for adults. What more can you ask for? Censorship above that which we have in movies now? No thanks.

The current problem in the UK in regards to this are the retailers (hence my previous confusion). They're quite happy to sell 18 games to parents who'll then give the game to their children, without even pointing out the certificate in the first place. I always made a point of telling parents that the game was certified 15 or 18, and the response was always the same: "Really? But it's just a game!" I'd then proceed to tell them the actual content of Grand Theft Auto III, and that was the end of that. The game would be put back, and not given into the hands of the child whom the BBFC has decided really shouldn't play it. And that's how it should be.

Not that the blame lies entirely there. Games magazines aimed at minors were shipping with demo discs that contained adult content and had a 15 certificate. I had to refuse selling a magazine to kids because of irresponsible disc compilation.

So yeah, the system in the UK doesn't work, but the idea is there :)

how they decided?

I don't really care what the game is rated. However, from reading the article the WAY the rating was decided seems really problematic.

"If you've seen this video you realize, quite frankly, it's really disturbing," said Ontario Consumer Minister Jim Watson.

"Some of the graphics that I was shown should alert parents that this kind of a video is for older children," he said.

This seems to indicate that, once again, people made a judgement on a game without actually playing it. While maybe someone else played the game, the article doesn't seem to indicate that. Judging a game based on watching film clips of it is like judging a film based on the script. This rating is theoretically supposed to keep chiildren from PLAYING the game not WATCHING it. Therefore, the very least they could do would be to actually play it themselves before giving it a rating.

R rating?

No, I don't think minors should be playing games like this. Yes, this game deserved an R rating. How come then, movie theaters can't be sued for allowing a minor into the theater? There is such a double standard for video games vs. movies. How come the parents need to be responsible enough to check movie ratings but not video game ratings? Considering that video games cost about 10x as much as a movie and need to be played at home, usually in the same house as their parents, it seems like it should be the other way around if anything.

parental control

This horse is already a bloody pulp from beating it so much, but it must be brought up again.

It's all about parental control. Parents need to be aware of what's going on in their living room or the kids room. they need to be aware of what games they are playing and even play it themselves before they hand the game over to the kid.

I know... what happens when Johnny is over at Jimmy's house and he has Manhunt. We just had a daughter (and, being a gamer myself I hope she's into video games) and, yeah she'll be presented with all sorts of stuff when I'm not around once she is older (violent video games, drugs, alcohol, some of that god awful music those kids are listening to nowadays [damn i'm getting older]). But, I hope, I raise my kid right and when presented with these types of things, she'll make the correct decision.

Sure, when I was a kid, I listened to all sorts of foul-mouthed music (Hell, I still do). I remember listening to NWA REALLY loud on my walkman and my mom hearing the line "We want to F--- you Easy/B---- I want to F--- you too!" And yes, the tape was confiscated, but I was raised right. I knew that it was all an act, just like a video game is a video game.

It's hard to stay away from violence, sex, etc. in today's society and I think kids growing up now are forced to grow up much faster than any previous generation. I just think you need to educate your children on what is right and what is real. Also not to oversaturate your child with violence, sex, drugs..

And limit how the media controls your child. Make them read books, play outside, and limit video game play.

/me stops beating that dead horse and gets off the soapbox.

Disgusting

Did anyone actually catch the movies of this game in action? It's physically revolting. I've played several violent video games, and I'm able to distinguish between what's real and what's fake. I love Deus Ex, even though it's a rather gory game. But this game emphasises plain brutality.

It is a perfectly legitimate concern. Not letting 12 year old boys get a kick out of jamming a crowbar through someone's head and watching blood pour out isn't just being "moral," it's simply common decency. Just typing that makes me sick.

so... we agree?

so... everyone agrees this is a good thing. Even the trolls agree?

Seems to have Better than Average Gameplay

The reviews seem pretty good, so it seem to have some redeeming value as an actual game:

http://gametab.com/ps2/manhunt/1736/

Overal about a 77% rating

84%
"Manhunt is an audacious game that backs up its extremely violent subject matter with solid stealth action gameplay." -GameSpot

85%
"In the end, Manhunt is a highly polished strategy game of hide-and-seek, kill-or-be-killed gameplay. It's narrow in focus, but deep in its specialty." -IGN

65%
"You will, indeed, feel like a convict trying to survive...Still, the shock is so morbid and gruesome that you must make a moral decision about the game, especially once the killing gets boring." -lawrence.com

81%
"It's a mixed bag for me, but I'd suggest a rental for you to see if you like the controls better than I did." -Next Level Gaming

90%
"I haven't been this addicted to a game in some time, and I'm looking forward to wrapping up this review so I can get back to playing it." -Worth Playing

82%
"Rockstar has effectively taken the stealth formula out of its designated confines to produce a highly entertaining, albeit niche audienced, stealth-based game that makes Grand Theft Auto look tame in comparison." -Gaming Nexus

70%
"It's not for everybody, but if Splinter Cell's smug militarism and MGS's idiotic plot got on your nerves, or you feel like you'd make a good snuff movie star, pick it up." -GamesDomain

50%
"Escape the hell of Carcer City before boredom and internal disquiet overwhelm you." -1UP

80%
"Definitely a rent-before-leaping kind of thing, this game will force a polemic reaction. Kudos to Rockstar North for doing something different, even if it's not going to be a mainstream top-seller like Grand Theft Auto." -Gamenikki

88%
"Manhunt is extremely violent and even a bit disturbing, but it is also one of the finest games to grace the Playstation 2 in some time, and is well worth the price of admission. " -netjak

80%
"Manhunt is a survival horror masterpiece." -Gamer Feed

75%
"Manhunt's a great game if you can stomach its violent style and are looking for a game to genuinely get the hairs on the back of your neck creeping up, but it does have its limitations." -GameSpot AU

80%
"...if you can get over the sometimes repetitious nature of the game, Manhunt provides some of the most intense and subversive stealth gaming to date." -GameSpy

70%
"When it's firing on all cylinders Manhunt is a disturbingly entertaining take on the stealth action genre with the trademark high quality Rockstar production that mask some of its shortcomings." -EuroGamer

83%
"Fans of stealth games will have a good time with it, and the gameplay is solid enough and easy enough to learn that you can jump right in and start playing." -GameZone Online

90%
"Clever, gory and thoroughly engaging." -UGO

80%
"While drawing comparisons to Metal Gear Solid 2 might be a little excessive, stealth action fans that can handle the touchy subject matter should at least give Manhunt a chance, as it's deeper than it would first appear." -Avault

Re:Ontario?

This is NOT a place where free expression is valued, let's just say that. I'm surprised they didn't launch a lawsuit against the makers, like Florida did with GTA Vice City.

Wouldn't the conclusion of a reasonable person be that Florida is the problem?

Re:Ontario?

I think it's safe to say that you have no idea what you're talking about.