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Games Entertainment

Playstation 3 Already Won the Next Gen Battle? 511

Posted by CmdrTaco from the look-into-my-crystal-ball dept.
damyan writes "The BBC are running an article that claims that the Playstation 3 has already won the next-gen battle, since 'The Informa Media Group predicts that Sony will sell more than 30 million PlayStation 3s in Europe by 2010. It puts Microsoft in second place with 10 million sales and Nintendo trailing in third with five million.' If only everyone could see that well into the future."
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Playstation 3 Already Won the Next Gen Battle? More

Playstation 3 Already Won the Next Gen Battle?

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  • But will it run Linux (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Space cowboy ( 13680 ) * on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:11PM (#8510757) Journal
    Actually not as stupid a question as it sounds - the PS2 has an official linux [playstation2-linux.com] site, and the dev. environment is pretty similar (well, once you use the SPS2 stuff, anyway :-).

    Given the advances in NUMA architectures in the Linux kernel, and the Cell processor being designed for parallel processing, it actually begins to sound reasonable... I'm sure there'll be developers who hit the metal, but given how fast the thing is supposed to run, I think it's a viable option :-)

    Then of course, it'll *really* be a war - closed MS Xbox-2 versus PS3 running Linux :-))

    Simon

    • Re:But will it run Linux (Score:5, Insightful)

      by garcia ( 6573 ) * on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:14PM (#8510799)
      Currently, even though the XBox is closed, there is more development going on to use it w/o MS' software than there is to use Linux on the PS2...

      PS2Linux is outdated and apparently not all that worth the money you have to sink into the machine to use it.

      Will XBox2 be the same way? No one knows...

      • Re:But will it run Linux (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Derkec ( 463377 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:31PM (#8510967)
        I think the key difference is that the XBox has a hardrive. Those HD are pretty useful relative to being limited to flash and burned media for storage.

        • Re:But will it run Linux (Score:4, Informative)

          by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:38PM (#8511036)
          When you pay your 100 pounds (which doesn't seem too much to me, I have to say!), you get a 40G hard-drive, a 100-base-T ethernet network adapter, and Sony send you an online id so you can play networked games when you're not coding.

          As for outdated, well it only runs kernel 2.2 but, frankly, who cares ? The "cool" bits are the vector units (which you have to code in assembly anyway) and the DMA engine.

          I've posted about this before, but the PS2 is (when coded properly) a dataflow architecture. It has massive internal bandwidth, relatively little RAM, and 3 processors (Mips R3K, 2 vector units). The idea is to pull data from the RAM into the processors using DMA, work on the data, and DMA it to the rendering engine. You can chain DMA transactions, and the combination of the flexible DMA, the 3 processors, and the bandwidth is what makes the PS2. None of this is in any way dependent on the Linux kernel - all it's really there for is to create a self-hosting environment...

          Simon.

          • PS/2 doesn't benifit from Linux (Score:4, Interesting)

            by DonGar ( 204570 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @05:02PM (#8513449) Homepage
            If you buy the PS/2 Dev kit, you can turn your console into a linux workstation and start writing easily in a familiar environment. We make this available to everyone, and lots of cool stuff with just appear as people get to try out their own ideas. At least that's the theory.

            In practice, the barrier to development is HIGH. There are no high level libraries, and the amount you have to learn about the box to do anything with it is far to high to get anything useful done on a nights and weekends basis.

            You buy the kit, it's neat to have RedHat 5.x, it can really run X Windows and Emacs and everything (though kinda slow).

            But when you try to build anything you just hit a wall. The documenation is poor (probably better in Japanese) and confusing. The build process is complex, since there are custom languages for the two vector units (which are NOT identical and interchangable), and the main processor is not fast enough to do much real time work by itself.

            The video and audio outputs are custom and can't be accessed though any standard mechanism (like OpenGL).

            After spending about a month of spare time, digging through docs, reading things online and generally fiddling with pieces until they seem to work, you manage to add 1 and 1 on a vector processor, then get the result back and display it on the console. And you're proud. If you do keep goingand build a real game you can only distribute it to other people that have bought development kits, unless you get a real licensing deal with Sony. That means big money, big business, small/simple games need not apply and don't even consider trying to distribute for free.

            What this high barrier to entry means is that the strengths of open source aren't really there, because very few programmers can really use the environment, and few others can even read the code that first set wrote. There isn't much sharing, and not much that's fun to play comes out of it.

        • Re:But will it run Linux (Score:5, Informative)

          by Neon Spiral Injector ( 21234 ) * on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:39PM (#8511044)
          The PS2 Linux kit includes a hard drive, that is part of the big price. Also a network adaptor (without modem), a keyboard and mouse, and a VGA output (that requires a sync on green monitor).
        • Well, sure, except that the PS2 Linux kit includes the PS2 hard drive.

          I think the difference is that modding an x-box to be developed on is way cheaper than modding a PS2 to be developed on. Also, it's easier to develop for the XBox by a fair sight; it can be developed for with modern tools, and there are easily-found leaked SDKs that integrate closely with strong IDEs, whereas Sony's libraries are under control, they expect you to develop in GCC, and the hardware in the PS2 is famous for scaring some est

    • Re:But will it run Linux (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Jotaigna ( 749859 ) <jotaigna@yahoo.com> on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:15PM (#8510803) Homepage Journal
      And a Beowulf Cluster?not as stupid either, since Spectrum Magazine [ieee.org] Had a report also where some guys put 73 PS2's together and using their graphics processor chip achieved supercomputing proccessor power.

    • Re:But will it run Linux (Score:5, Insightful)

      by emgeemg ( 182902 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:28PM (#8510938) Homepage
      The number of people who will use linux support as a criterion for deciding which console to buy is going to be so tiny that you're dreaming if you think it's going to have any impact whatsoever.

    • Re:But will it run Linux (Score:5, Funny)

      by Pieroxy ( 222434 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:33PM (#8510989) Homepage
      From the story: Playstation 3 Already Won and The Informa Media Group predicts...

      So you don't need to actually fight battles anymore, just be predicted to win and you are declared as having "Already Won" ?

      I know what my next job will be...
      • Sony has the will of the warrior! Microsoft and Nintendo have the will of a housewife, or a school marm! HAHA!

        PS4 vs. Xbox3 vs. N6? Sony wins again!

        • Xbox3? Old news. Wait'll you grok Xbox7. Whoa, will that one knicker your eyelids. Well, it did mine, in eight years. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to go return these videos, as they were overdue a year from now.

  • Predictions... (Score:5, Funny)

    by GearheadX ( 414240 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:12PM (#8510767)
    I wonder if this is a bunch related to the people who somehow predicted, and convinced, the old head of Nintendo that optical media in video games was 'just a fad' back during the N64 design phase.

    • Re:Predictions... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:19PM (#8510832)
      I wish they were right. Carts rule. No load times. Don't get scratched. Don't need a case. The main advantage of a CD is its storage capacity but all we've gotten out of that are boring cut scenes and an annoying whirr whirr whirr after you beat a boss. Ah well.

      • Re:Predictions... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by EnderWiggnz ( 39214 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:39PM (#8511046)
        CD/DVD production costs are an order of magnitude less than tooling a line to print ROM boards, ad printing them.

        • Re:Predictions... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Kenja ( 541830 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:40PM (#8511057)
          "CD/DVD production costs are an order of magnitude less than tooling a line to print ROM boards, ad printing them."

          Yet the price of the game is still the same if not higher.

          • Re:Predictions... (Score:5, Insightful)

            by RLW ( 662014 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:50PM (#8511149)
            Money, Money, Money, Money, Mooneey, Mooooneey. The margin for games has always been tight. For the game maker the CDs have been a boon in terms of easing the profit margin.

            The argument you make also applies to cassettes and VHS tapes. The CDs and DVDs are much cheaper to make these days but is music and video cheeper on the newer media?

          • Re:Predictions... (Score:3, Informative)

            by matastas ( 547484 )
            Just because a manufacturer's costs go down doesn't mean that the product is any less valuable to the consumer. Whether I can make a product for $5 or $0.50 is irrelevant to the fact that the market will bear a price of $50.

            Posting on Slashdot should require at least one business course and an ounce of common sense. Good Christ.

          • Re:Predictions... (Score:3, Insightful)

            by blincoln ( 592401 )
            Yet the price of the game is still the same if not higher.

            That's partly because game *production* costs are increasing.

            It is a lot more expensive to produce a modern 3D game than it was to make an SNES title, which is why Nintendo can get away with selling Metroid Zero Mission (which could pretty much have been done on the SNES) for $30 on release day, but a new PS2 or Xbox game is $50.

          • Re:Predictions... (Score:3, Insightful)

            by randomaxe ( 673239 )
            If you'll recall, back when Sony, Sega, and Nintendo were first slugging it out with the Playstation, Saturn, and N64 respectively, N64 carts were running ten to twenty dollars more than their equivalent disc-based games.

            Consider also that the amount of data packed on a CD or DVD easily dwarfs what can be economically put onto a cart. That's why those same expensive N64 games generally lacked FMV/prerendered CG sequences and lengthy sound samples (such as speech). So while the overall cost of games has

    • Re:Predictions... (Score:5, Funny)

      by CriX ( 628429 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:31PM (#8510969)
      I remember CNN telling me that yup, we assume Gore will win Florida so we're just gonna throw those electoral votes into his pool. Man, was that ever frustrating when a couple hours later they yanked those votes away!

      Anyway, I've never owned a console before but I plan on getting a playstation 3. Why? Because the specs for PS3 are fucking ridiculous!! There's gonna be like digital naked-chicks and fucking explosions coming out of my Holographic HDTV set when I hook this bad boy up in 2006. :D

  • You can't win the battle (Score:5, Insightful)

    by krog ( 25663 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:12PM (#8510772) Homepage
    Until the battle occurs.

    I can predict anything. Doesn't make it true.

  • yes, because we all know that companies (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:13PM (#8510780)
    never fumble and release a crappy update to an existing game system

    Atari 5200 anyone? excellent graphics (for early 80s), awful controllers.
  • Hates new XBox. Hates it!
    Without a hard drive, there's even less reason for me to buy the box from Redmond.
    I wonder if Microsoft is going to actually start making a profit with the XBox division anytime soon. The XBox 2 does get a head start on the PS3. But I go back to the point: I will not buy an XBox 2.

    • Re:I agree (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Benw5483 ( 731259 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:26PM (#8510907) Homepage
      Why is the hard drive thing still an issue? It shouldn't be an issue at all yet since no specs have been released on the system.

      Would an internal 4 Gig flash drive make everyone happy? Because that's not outside the realm of possibility yet.

      Also, who predicts something as unpredictable as video game sales? This is a stupid thing to do. Maybe after we see some specs on the consoles in question. But, gamers are getting smarter and more tuned in to what makes a system good and for all we know Nintendo could release a system that simply blows the other 2 away 3-6 months after the other two are released.

      All in all, I can't believe somebody like the BBC would run an article like this.

      • Re:I agree (Score:3, Insightful)

        by edwdig ( 47888 )
        Would an internal 4 Gig flash drive make everyone happy? Because that's not outside the realm of possibility yet.

        Sure, that's possible theoretically. But not if the goal of removing the hard disk to is reduce the cost of the system.

        • Re:I agree (Score:4, Interesting)

          by EpsCylonB ( 307640 ) <eps&epscylonb,com> on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @05:03PM (#8513480) Homepage
          Sure, that's possible theoretically. But not if the goal of removing the hard disk to is reduce the cost of the system.

          As others have pointed out, that probably isn't the goal, MS is probably trying to reduce the hackability of the console.

          Your right that 4 gig of flash would be expensive right now, but look at how the price of flash has dropped over the last few years. Replacing a hard drive with flash may not be as wildly expensive as everyone thinks (think of the bulk deals that MS could get).

    • Re:I agree (Score:5, Funny)

      by Midnight Thunder ( 17205 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:32PM (#8510980) Homepage Journal
      Hates new XBox. Hates it!
      Gollum, I didn't know they had XBoxes in Middle Earth?

      Never mind, probaly worth -2 for poor joke.

  • It's amazing (Score:4, Funny)

    by DaveCBio ( 659840 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:14PM (#8510786)
    That the BBC can do what no other human has been able to accomplish. Do you think next they'll be giving out lotto numbers?

  • Just like... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:14PM (#8510788)
    ...Duke Nukem: Forever has already won game of the year*.

    *year to be determined.

  • What are they basing that on? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Mongoose Disciple ( 722373 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:14PM (#8510793)
    Is it just me, or is this kind of hokey?

    According to the report, the PS3 is expected to sell 32 million units in Europe by 2010, more than the combined sales of the Microsoft and Nintendo machines.

    I mean, seriously, what are these so-called analysts basing that on? The article doesn't say.

    Probably, the PS3 will do well, but it seems beyond premature to make up numbers like these without supporting them in any meaningful way.

  • Many a slip 'twixt cup and lip (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Channard ( 693317 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:14PM (#8510795) Journal
    Or between development and release. Granted, Sony may have the clout, but don't forget there are plenty of ways to mess up when it comes to releasing a new console. The Playstation 2's line up, for example, was pretty weak when released, and if someone makes the rash decision to drop PS1+2 support from the PS3, sales will plummet (though it looks MS may already have made that mistake with X-Box 3 if rumours are to believed.)The Dreamcast, on the other hand, had a very strong line-up, great hardware, but Sega's lack of decent advertising did the console no good. I think this is rather jumping the gun.

    • Re:Many a slip 'twixt cup and lip (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Dragoon412 ( 648209 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @02:05PM (#8511357)
      As was covered in the earlier thread [slashdot.org] regarding the Xbox 2's backwards compatibility, while backwards compatibility with the PS2 was a nice feature, it was a far cry from a major selling point. It was only even included because it was so simple, given the PS2's I/O controller is a PS1.

      Anyone with games for the PS2 is already going to have a PS2 that can play those PS2 games just fine. And traditionally, backwards compatibility is non-issue amongst successful consoles. The N64, SNES, and NES didn't feature it, nor did the Master System, Genesis, or Dreamcast. Sure, the GBA features backwards compatibility with the Gameboy, but the handheld market's not the same as the console market.

      I'm not saying backwards compatibility is a non-issue, but be realistic: it's almost entirely an issue of not wanting to have an additional box sitting next to the TV. It's definitely a convenience for people with a large back library that like to scream with righteous indignation about needing an extra box to play a game, or people just getting into gaming who'd like to try an older game, but are either of those market segments large enough to cause sales to "plummet?"

      Not a chance.

  • Recipe for sucess (Score:2, Interesting)

    by alop ( 67204 )
    What sony does that has really set them apart from Microsoft, is to focus on the game developer. With that in mind, You'll probably see the official PS3 linux, as also the nice SDK's... It's all in the titles that the platofrom runs that makes it successful... Just cuz the XBox has the best hardware hasn't made it the #1...

    • Analyst logic (Score:3, Insightful)

      by markov_chain ( 202465 )
      I think you're dead on, and probably the reason why these "analysts" could make a prediction at all without knowing anything about the hardware. It seems it's a given that any big house can make a respectable console, so they probably assumed Xbox2 and PS3 would be about the same and focused on the differences. My guess is that the biggest difference is in the network of game developers that these companies have been able to develop. Hence, analyst logic:

      3 times as many game developers for Sony => 3 t

    • Re:Recipe for sucess (Score:4, Informative)

      by Nevo ( 690791 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:23PM (#8510872)
      I'm curious: what are you basing that statement on? You're claiming that MS doesn't focus on the game developer, I'd like to know why you say that.

      Granted, MSFT keeps the XDK under tight wraps, but it's no big secret that it's a very close relative of DirectX 7. And there's libraries of information on programming DX7 out there.

  • Link on same page (Score:5, Funny)

    by Lord Grey ( 463613 ) * on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:14PM (#8510800)
    It's interesting that on the same page as the story is this link:

    Playstation Fights Falling Sales [bbc.co.uk]. Granted, it's from July 2003, but still....

    PlayStation is dying! No, no, wait. PlayStation will dominate!

    No, no, wait....

  • And in other predictions (Score:5, Funny)

    by onyxruby ( 118189 ) * <onyxrubyNO@SPAMcomcast.net> on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:17PM (#8510810)
    And in other predictions I have determined with a similiar level of scientific accuracy using the same method of bovinefecalius that we'll see:

    The Minnesota Vikings will almost win the Superbowl in 2010, but get nuked by a terrorist right before they clench the game.

    Manchester United will become a has been team that leases space to danceline competitions to pay for stadium lights.

    The New York Yankees won't actually have to play the World Series to win after their payroll exceeds 1 billion dollars to save on wasteful travel costs.

    The NHL will fold to be replaced by the CHL and the AHL with the Stanley cup auctioned on Ebay.
  • As is usually the case, the media are distorting the contents of the original report. The Informa Media Group's actual prediction is that there will be 30 million PS3s in Europe by 2010, plus or minus 2.3. (No, not "2.3 million", not "2.3 thousand", "2.3".)

    Leave it up to the BBC to leave out the italicized phrase in their zeal to "sex up" the story. I'm sure the Informa Media Group is very disappointed. Now people are going to get false impressions about how sure the Informa Media Group is about their pred
  • Soooo... Sony's won the next-gen "console wars" before they've even started because they're going to sell a lot of PS3's, er, because, uh... this analyst company... um, says so. Yeah, that's some pretty persuasive arguin'! Seriously, this is the silliest proclamation I've ever seen, based on the thinnest evidence I've ever seen. The conclusion may be reasonable based on some evidence, but unfortunately they don't put any of the evidence in the article. And I'm not convinced Nintendo or Microsoft can't p

  • Backwards Compatibility (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PitaBred ( 632671 ) <slashdot&pitabred,dyndns,org> on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:18PM (#8510817) Homepage
    That's the one thing that Sony really has going for it... it's the one reason that I think a lot of people want it. There are a lot of very good games out for the PSX or PS2 that many people don't want to stop playing... I still play PSX games on my PS2, because they're fun, not because they're pretty or anything. If the XBox2 doesn't have this, they're going to lose a lot of customers. People want to upgrade, not have tons of different systems from the same company in their house.
    • What's about people toting backwards compatibility as the greatest thing since sliced bread?

      Think about the situation with the N64 and the Gamecube. When The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was announced for the Gamecube, everybody just went nuts over it, and I don't know many people who didn't actually try to get it, even though it's a really slight update, and tell you what? I'm happy with it.

      And I bet all backwards-compatibility whiners will be drooling hopelessly the very second they see a remake of
    • This makes the hasty presumption that there are good XBox 1 titles that you want to keep around.

      Prince of Persia, and ... prince of persia... um...

  • What a load of bunk (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Phoenix823 ( 448446 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:19PM (#8510822)
    "Meanwhile, Nintendo seems set to play to its strengths and emphasise game quality and innovation over processor horsepower."

    It's interesting they should say that...the Gamecube's games look consistently better than PS2 games in no small part due to the additional power the Gamecube has over the PS2, and the relative ease of developing games on the Gamecube. Then, the article goes on to say Nintendo emphasizes game quality over power, which they already have plenty of! If this isn't a ringing endorsement for Nintendo, I don't know what is.

    • Re:What a load of bunk (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Malc ( 1751 )
      What annoys me about a lot of games on the XBox is that they've been programmed for the lowest common denominator: the PS2. What good is it having better graphics when developers aren't going to bother putting the time in and just focus on quick shovelware ports?

    • Re:What a load of bunk (Score:5, Insightful)

      by snookerdoodle ( 123851 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @02:33PM (#8511676)
      I agree - and it's interesting that the agency ignores completely the concept of buying the box that runs the software you want. We ended up with a GC w/o doing any research at all into which was the faster h/w: it had Sonic and Mario, my kids like Sonic and Mario, that's all there was to it.

      Of course, Sonic will now be available for others, but not Mario, Luigi, and Friends.

      IMHO, GC is targeted towards younger kids while PS and XBox seem to go for the 12-24 yr old crowd. *This* should have been the basis for their findings, *not* cpu power. Moreover, they seem to have ignored the slowly happening convergence issues where the peecee and set top box could still really be contenders.

      Mark
    • Out of curiosity, how is a 400MHz PowerPC more powerful than a 300MHz MIPS III core coupled with a pair of 300MHz vector units, each of which has more functional units than the CPU itself. I'm willing to believe that it's possible, but I haven't seen any evidence along those lines.

      • Geometry processing is not all you need (Score:5, Informative)

        by grahamwest ( 30174 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @04:09PM (#8512843) Homepage
        It's actually a 487Mhz PPC. The real keys are that clock-for-clock the PPC is better than the EE (MIPS R5900 as you mention), the CPU cache is much bigger (256k) on the PPC than the EE (8k), the system bus bandwidth is lower - EE is 128bit but only 150Mhz and RDRAM has a long setup time vs the 1T-SRAM used with the PPC - and core floating point performence is much better on the PPC than the EE (eg. physics, AI).

        Most PS2 games are EE-limited. The VUs are great for medium (eg. skinning) and low (eg. transform, clipping, lighting) level vertex processing but that's only a relatively small piece of the total work done by a modern game. They have so little integer and flow control support that you can't do much higher level work on them even if you wanted to deal with writing such things in dual-issue microcode.
  • This smells of fertilizer.

    I think they are makign the mistake of projecting the sales figures of the current console war on the one in the future.

    The next X-Box may suck, especially with no hard drive (read me engineers, BAD IDEA) but it is hard to say what will emerge from the vapour and until that point it is best not to open your mouth and later prove yourself a fool.

  • I predict that The Informa Media Group will sell fewer reports after this one turns out to be wrong.
  • Because the thrid World War will begin and the Japan will be defasted by invasion of a superrace of godzilla protesting agains the end of the movie !

  • This just proves... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Ryan Amos ( 16972 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:23PM (#8510868)
    That 70% of all statistics are just made up on the spot.

  • Yeah, but (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Snowspinner ( 627098 ) *
    Nintendo is going to win the 9th generation! And my pet seamonkeys will win the one after that!

    Sorry, I just wanted to indulge in random and useless speculation like the authors of the article.

    I'm done now, so I guess I'll go play Zelda.

  • Microsoft (Score:2, Insightful)

    by JSkills ( 69686 )
    The PS2 (and predicted PS3) dominance is no surpise. But I must admit to being surprised by the numbers: 30 million to Sony / 10 million to Microsoft / 5 million to Nintendo.

    Microsoft seems to have made decent inroads, doubling Ninendo's market share. I know they have the marketing bucks, but my question is why would anyone buy an xBox instead of a PS? PS has more games and better overall quality and reliability.

    This is how I hear it from my nephew, the hardcore gamer anyway. I like to play games, b

    • Re:Microsoft (Score:3, Insightful)

      by rjstanford ( 69735 )
      Microsoft seems to have made decent inroads, doubling Ninendo's market share. I know they have the marketing bucks, but my question is why would anyone buy an xBox instead of a PS? PS has more games and better overall quality and reliability.

      Easy - or it was when I bought mine. Widescreen support. I only have a 16:9 TV. Every XBOX game that I have supports both the widescreen aspect ratio and 480p output. When I bought it, the PS2 offered neither. Made the decision easy, especially considering the "e

    • What did you say? (Score:3, Informative)

      by Inoshiro ( 71693 )
      "Microsoft seems to have made decent inroads, doubling Ninendo's market share."

      I don't see how 10 million units shipping is double 11 million units shipped. Even if you're talking about North America, it's about 5 million to 5 million units. There is no market where Microsoft has doubled Nintendo's market share. Not even close.

    • Re:Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MyHair ( 589485 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:53PM (#8511188) Journal
      This is how I hear it from my nephew, the hardcore gamer anyway.

      And we all know hardcore gamers wouldn't be fanboys for their platform. <rolleyes>

      I don't have a console, but I was thinking about getting one a few months ago. I couldn't decide between XBox or PS2; each has its merits. I was going to decide based on who I would most likely share games with, but my peers are split XBox/PS2. I wound up deciding not to spend the money. But it's really hard to find objective opinions among the diehard brand fans.

  • "Win" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Azghoul ( 25786 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:26PM (#8510911) Homepage
    It occurs to me that if I ever managed to sell 10, 5 or even 1 million of anything, I'd consider myself pretty damn successful.

    Interesting times, I guess...

  • Nintendo (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gcore ( 748374 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:26PM (#8510917)
    Im still a hardcore nintendo fan, Nintendo does the best games, Zelda, Mario, etc.

    And now, after the Squaresoft Enix merge Nintendo will hopefully get the Final Fantasy games where they belong; on a Nintendo Machine.

    Lets all hope that Nintendo kicks some serius ass this time.
    Only reason i bought an X-box was that is was able play DVDs and you could install Linux on it,
    I never once purchased a game for that box.

    And I never really liked the PS2 hardware, or any of the games.

    Go Nintendo!
  • It is really stretching to say that Sony has won the next gen battle. Think about it. Sega had the best base w/ Genisis. Nintendo had the league won with SNES. But then sony came out w/ Playstation. Took the lead away based on best games and platform. And that platform is ALWAYS changing. I don't believe console gamers have brand loyalty.

  • Xbox Live! (Score:3, Informative)

    by Intocabile ( 532593 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:28PM (#8510928)
    Last time I checked it was the best platform for online console games. With everything moving to broadband, I think the established network will be a giant foothold into the market that Sony will have to work hard to match. Microsoft and Sony have almpost the same hardware, the battle will be won with exclusive titles and features.
    • The platform the the PS2 is now releasing their online games on (it escapes me now) is pretty damn good... and like Xbox live it doesn't require companies to have their own huge server farms for their online games which was the huge problem that caused the PS2's lack of multiple good online titles. I think the PS2 is catching up quickly, and if the PS3 takes more cues from Xbox Live they could outpace it quickly... oh, and online gaming is free with the PS, which doesn't hurt things either.

  • Wondering about Xbox 2 (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dark Paladin ( 116525 ) * <jhummel.johnhummel@net> on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:28PM (#8510935) Homepage
    Most of us are assuming that the PS3 will be backwards compatible with the PS2, if not still the PS1.

    I'm hoping that Nintendo makes the Gamecube 2 compatible with the Gamecube, but there's been no comment on that.

    But the Xbox 2 is looking more and more like it will not be backwards compatible with the Xbox 1, and I'm thinking that might be a huge mistake on Microsoft's part.

    It usually takes about 12 months for A list titles to appear on any new console. MS was at least smart enough to put Halo on its release titles, which was a good move, but after that it still took some time for another major "must have" exclusive title.

    So if the Xbox 2 isn't backwards compatible, I have the feeling that it will be a harder sell. I have all three systems, and some Xbox games I haven't gotten around to yet (Ninja Gaiden is certain a hard-as-nails blast, though). But if I can't play those games on a new Xbox 2, I'll probably just wait 12 months or so until the price dies down.

    If the other two systems (GC2 and PS3) are backwards, then it will be a simple pickup. Old system gets sold on eBay, and new system plays maybe 1 new game for it, and all my old games are still valid.

    I don't mind have 3 consoles - but I think 4 is just too many, espeically when 2 of them are by the same manufacturer.

    I know - "But in the past we didn't care - look at the SNES to N64, or N64 to Gamecube!". Yes, that's true - but we had only 2 consoles really on the market at a time. Now we have 3, and that actually makes a hell of a difference. And now that Sony has pretty much got us used to backwards compatibility, I think that most buyers (especially their parents who don't want to see $200 in old games unplayed by their children because they 'don't work on the new system") now expect that backwards compatibility.

    I could be wrong - it's been known to happen. But that's my opinion.

  • In other news... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Keebler71 ( 520908 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:28PM (#8510936) Journal
    And in other news,...

    Dewey defeats Truman! [loc.gov]

  • backwards compatibility (Score:3, Insightful)

    by j0hndoe ( 677869 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:30PM (#8510964) Journal
    I think the issue of backwards compatibility is going to give Sony a huge advantage. In the case of the PS2, the compatibility with PS1 cames gave it a big headstart in terms of supported titles. Given that Microsoft is going to find it hard to maintain compatibility with the Xbox 1, (see article) [slashdot.org], Sony should press that advantage for all its worth. It makes the consumer feel like they're getting the most bang for the buck when their shiny new toy works with old games as well as new games.

  • Europe is a very different market... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by brucmack ( 572780 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:33PM (#8510986)
    One thing I noticed when living in Europe for a while is that people generally didn't give X-box too much of a chance, and Gamecube was very much behind that. Sony must have done a really really good job with the Playstation, because their name recognition was far beyond anyone elses. If one so much as mentioned a gaming console, people would assume it's a Playstation. It's kind of surprising when one considers that Nintendo still has dominance over the handheld market there, yet is very far behind with the GC.

    This really isn't that far out a prediction, given that the current console battle was won by Playstation 2 despite that fact that it was (IMHO) the weakest of the three.

    Basically I see Microsoft as being the one with something to lose. Nintendo is by all accounts quite happy to sell fewer than the rest of them but turn a tidy profit doing so, while putting out the high quality first-party games they've always done. Of course, the fact that they're still killing in the handheld market probably helps the bottom line...

  • IBM is the winner! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by uss_valiant ( 760602 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:42PM (#8511081) Homepage
    Actually, IBM is the winner of the nextgen video game consoles. IBM designs the Cell chip together with Sony. A 64 Bit powerpc will power the XBOX 2. And last but not least, IBM will produce the CPU for the gamecube successor.

  • Compatibility (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DrugCheese ( 266151 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @01:48PM (#8511130)
    But the PS3 is supposed to be backwards compatible with PS and PS2 games while the XBox won't?

    That sells me

  • Some of the technologies are not prime-time ready (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Rolman ( 120909 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @02:14PM (#8511452)
    All three consoles can and will have very powerful technology, but I think the article is too optimistic and only tries to be "buzzword compliant" when talking about games having motion sensing and voice recognition integrated and the Internet being the "battleground".

    These technologies are still at their early years, and making a game with those features increases the difficulty of developing it to a completely new level, as if fragment shaders, 3d audio, physics, and AI wouldn't be enough of a headache. Some current games already started to include voice recognition and motion sensing features in some way, but talking about the videogame industry leaning itself to that I don't think so.

    Regarding the Internet, it's indeed an incredible tool and makes wonders with some games, but contrary to what some people might think, I don't believe it's still profitable or even really reliable to do globally, Microsoft's approach to Xbox Live seems to be right, but they're still bleeding a lot of money, so I wouldn't expect the online component to be a reliable revenue stream anytime soon.

    Think about it, even Sony with 70 million consoles out there is still skeptical an cautious about online gaming and Xbox Live suscribers don't even amount to 10% of MS' global installed base. Then Nintendo is still battling with MS for second place (the usual "we are, you're not" from both sides), even though they put online gaming as a very low priority.

    That said, maybe when these consoles start reaching the end of their respective life cycles, these kind of technologies will be more mature and then we can start to think on having a strong shift towards new ways of interaction into the next decade.

    If the current generation serves as an example, the remainder of the decade we'll still be getting remakes and rehashes of old games, and innovation will take a backseat to the ever-increasing economic pressure on the market.

    Also, writing off Nintendo as the distant third place was also not very smart to do. Big N's policies may not be attractive to us gamers, but do remember this is still a business and Nintendo is the only company able to sustain a healthy profit every generation, and their current strategies with regards to pricing seem to signal a very important price point which only them have been able to attain. As with the iPod Mini, sometimes the price point is the single most important thing for success, and most of the time this market is not driven by cutting-edge technology.

  • Such a load of BS... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by CashCarSTAR ( 548853 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @02:27PM (#8511613)
    It's impossible to tell what's gonig to happen for the next generation, because I'm guessing that the next gen console's are going to be more concept-type devices than the predecessors.

    It's looking more and more like Sony is going to do the all-in-one type box. Will they be able to maintain their current market share? What about backwards compatibility? (PS2 compatibility is expected). With the launch titles give enough bang for the buck to get a quick launch? (I actually say no. They're going to stall coming out of the gate).

    Microsoft looks to be playing it safe, moving from the HD based system to a more unhackable flash-memory type system. What will this do to sales? As well, MS faces the same problem. What about launch games. They had Halo for the X-Box (Without Halo, the X-Box may have been another N-Gage...)

    As for Nintendo..well..they're the wild card..arn't they? What the hell are they planning..everything to speak is in riddles and doublespeak.

    My best guess, is that the DS technology is some sort of affordable touch-pad. And they'll use that in their next system, in the controllers.

    At worst, you'd be able to see additional information, maps without switching screens. As well, doing basic inventory management, things such as that.

    At best? If their next system had the horsepower to feed out a 3d signal to the controller. Imagine being able to look down at your controller, playing Zelda for example, and seeing an overhead view of all the action around you? Or checking out what is behind you in a FPS.

    Something like that would be revolutionary if it caught on. Personally, I think that if it's affordable, it's a great idea.

    BTW, same problem for Nintendo. They had a bad launch for the GC and that hurt them. They need to launch with some big games right out.

  • PS 3 Backwards Compatibility (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kakos ( 610660 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @02:28PM (#8511622)
    I have to wonder if this is acutally going to be in the PS3 or if it's just one of Sony's extravagant claims that won't be fulfilled (ala Toy Story level graphics on a console).

    On the PS2, PSOne backwards compatibility was easy because the sound processor (I believe) was the same processor as the PSOne. However, since the PS3 plans to use a cluster of Cell processors for everything (the Cell processors which are completely different than either of the previous two processors), it seems like they would actually have to emulate the PS2 and PSOne. How well will this run?

    • Re:PS 3 Backwards Compatibility (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Echnin ( 607099 ) <{p3s46f102} {at} {sneakemail.com}> on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @03:07PM (#8512134) Homepage
      PSOne backwards compatibility wasn't exactly easy; they had to put nearly all the parts an entire seperate PSOne into the PS2 (except the sound chip, as you mention). The 1337est game programmers even use the PSOne system for PS2 games... So what, will they put a PS2 and a PS into the PS3?
      • So what, will they put a PS2 and a PS into the PS3?

        LOL ... even if they did, it'd still be smaller than the X-Box.

      • Re:PS 3 Backwards Compatibility (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Carlos Rodriguez ( 136019 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @04:54PM (#8513317)
        Actually the I/O Processor in the PS2 is based on the PS1's CPU [arstechnica.com] - this chip is the one that takes over when you boot the PS2 with a PSOne game. Sony killed two birds with one stone with this "Playstation-in-a-chip": they got an I/O processor and a way to get almost flawless PS1 emulation... the keyword being almost flawless, since there are PS1 games that are incompatible. This wouldn't be the case if Sony had decided to just stick a PS1 inside a PS2.

        Anyway, I can see Sony working right now in a "PS2 in a chip" for the PS3 - they have been revising the hardware for the PS2 to reduce the number of components with every new model, just as they did with the PS1, and I expect they eventually will get around to having most of the functionality of the Emotion Engine in a single, cheap chip. We can also expect a smaller, cuter and cheaper PSTwo after the PS3 is launched.

        But now that I think about it... Since they are separate chips, will the PS3 be compatible with the PS1? I'd think so, but they would have to use two different chips into the PS3. I/O processor and matemathical co-processor? Or will they integrate the "PS1-in-a-chip" in the new mini-Emotion Engine?

  • winning, losing, and relativitism (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SuperBigGulp ( 177180 ) on Tuesday March 09, 2004 @02:44PM (#8511810)
    It seems interesting that so many of these issues (OSs, vendors, and so on) are setup as win/lose, especially when some of the "losers" end up doing pretty well. For example, Apple is not the most widely used personal computer, but they continue to survive, innovate, and even turn a profit. Likewise, it seems odd to call Nintendo a "loser" because they sell "only 5 million" units.

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