Sony's 'Cell'-based TV Ready By 2006

News for nerds writes "Sony Corp plans to offer a broadband television by 2006 that would incorporate the powerful new 'Cell' processor it is developing with IBM Corp. and Toshiba Corp. The Cell processor is expected to power the upcoming PS3 console, a workstation, server, and other home appliances to form Cell-based P2P network. The sample production of the processor has already started. In PlayStation 3, TV props you!"

2006?

Yeah... But will it run Longhorn?

"In PlayStation 3, TV props you!"

Worst... "In Soviet Russia" joke... ever.

I mock the Cell Processor

The western world shudders every time Sony rumbles with the threat of another microprocessor. The Sony Processor is some magical beast that will topple Intel. Vague references to Detroit in 1974 abound, or, the USS Arizona at Pearl Harbor, for the more obtuse.

But yet I wonder if Intel will really be toppled? Will there be a magic Sony box to shake Wintel's growing foothold into Sony's traditional spaces? I don't think so.

Re:I mock the Cell Processor

Who cares what processor they use... the problem with Sony is that they then go and write an API which is impossible to use. A good API on a crap processor would still be acceptable, but knowing Sony...

Re:I mock the Cell Processor

Well, the reason there are so many games for the PS2 is that good third party tools have been developed for it. Your favorite game's best features owe their quality to Metrowerks, not Sony.

Re:I mock the Cell Processor

Ah, Slashdot. Where simplifying a post so as not to confuse John Q. Playstation owner is like drafting a Requesting for Insults. Yes, yes, AC Troll, I do know the goddamn difference between a tool and an API. This was the POINT too what I was saying. I have worked as a software engineer for six years. Perhaps this is why I can afford the luxury of a free slashdot account, and you cannot.

See, when an API gives you trouble, a good IDE will help you use it more efficiently. The more esoteric the API, the more help a good IDE can provide, by offering a visual reference, or by automating repetetive tasks, or by completely abstracting the API with a framework. Some APIs are nothing but a list of several hundred poorly named commands, and even a simple browser tool can help organize, describe, and group together calls. I used such a tool to build a bridge to various Windows API calls at my last job...it allowed my coworkers to do things in WSH, Visual Basic and ASP that otherwise would have either taken thousands of lines of bug ridden code or that would have eaten the processor.

Don't mock people for semantics, man. It's a ridiculously antisocial practice.

Re:I mock the Cell Processor

"That's why there are no games for the 75 million PS2s out there..."

That had more to do with Sony's previous success than the friendliness of the API. Don't believe me? Then how come most of the 1st and 2nd generation games looked so horrid?

Ka Me Ha Me HA!

Gohan can handle Cell again. I'm not worried about this at all.

Cell system?

The cell system seems interesting - it's one step closer to the eventual integration of every system component as one entity. Perhaps in the future, it'll just be a Station as opposed to a PlayStation.

Sony rant

I want to like Sony, I really do. But, they consistently fuck up the things they say they are going to do. Here's my armchair analysis:

Sony could be a dominant technology and media company. They own record labels, movie studios, and make what could otherwise be decent computers and electronics equipment. They could tie all this stuff together in an incredibly elegant package. I'm thinking something along the lines of Apple times 10. But, they insist on using proprietary hardware and software.

Note to Sony bigwigs: First off, ditch the memory stick. Give me SD slots on all your devices. They are smaller (physically) and cheaper (monetarily). Second, quit insisting on using your shitty ATRAC3 audio format. Or, alternatively, you can use it but make your hardware support MP3 as well. AAC would be nice, but I'm not asking a lot. I have a ton of MP3 files and I will not reencode to ATRAC3. So, that means I will not buy your damn music devices. Time and time again your formats fail. Betamax, Memory Stick, MiniDisc, SACD, ATRAC3, and on and on and on. Give it up. I want to buy your devices but you insist on making non standard stuff.

Now, the Cell processor is interesting. I sense Sony wants to change, but they refuse to go all out. Open up this Cell processor so a bunch of home devices use it and let the network effect rake in the money. The Playstation division of Sony has a really good vision if only they could make the rest of the company follow. Cell I'm willing to accept, because it sounds interesting. Jury is still out. UMD also seems like a decent mobile solution for games/audio/video. I'm disapointed that it uses Memory Stick, however. As an mobile media player, the thing will have a chastity belt tighter than the pope's daughter, which pisses me off because I don't want to go through that much trouble to USE THE FUCKING MEDIA I OWN.

The above was pretty incoherant I'm sure. I just see so much potential locked up in Sony that never gets realized and it really irks me.

That is all.

Re:Sony rant

Sony could be a dominant technology and media company. They own record labels, movie studios, and make what could otherwise be decent computers and electronics equipment. They could tie all this stuff together in an incredibly elegant package. I'm thinking something along the lines of Apple times 10. But, they insist on using proprietary hardware and software.

Not sure if you've seen this before, but check out The Civil War Inside Sony [wired.com]. It's a fascinating look at how the interests of Sony the electronics company are in conflict with those of Sony the media giant.

In essence, the electronics division knows they're losing ground because of their emphasis on DRM and proprietary solutions, but their hands are tied.

Re:Sony rant

They could be Apple x 10, if they didn't use proprietary hardware?

I knew my comment would draw this sort of reaction. It's horribly out of date. First off, I own a G5 and a PowerBook, so call me biased if you want to. But, lets take a look at what can be found on them:

FireWire 400/800 - Standard. Used in computers and new set-top boxes
USB 2.0 - Standard.
Ethernet - Standard. Gigabit too, no less.
802.11g - Standard.
SATA Hard Drives - Standard.
AGP - Standard
PCI - Standard
DVI - Standard. You might pick a bone with ADC, but that thing is cool. Power, USB and DVI in one cable saves tons of wiring mess.

So, I suspect your argument comes down to their use of the Power processor. It's a huge misconception that this is proprietary. Sure, Apple is the only PC manufacturer to use them, but PPC chips are found in all kinds of embedded devices. PPC gets used, and it gets used a lot. IBM and Freescale (ie Motorola) make them and it wouldn't surprise me if other smaller companies did too.

That said, I also prefer PPC processors to x86 ones. The design is much more sensible and also gives much better performance to power used ratio. I'm sorry, but I don't want the latest AMD or Intel monstrosity sucking juice from my outlet like it was a keg at a frat party.

In short. Apple uses very little proprietary stuff these days. Yes, there are exceptions. However, what they do usually is done in the sake of ease of use for the consumer, wheras Sony does it to treat you like a criminal who is out to steal and cheat them.

Re:Sony rant

Alright. Cute rant, but remember this: the reason Sony gear is such high quality is because they put a lot of money into research, design, and development. To recoup said monies, they have chosen to make their modestly priced devices compatible only with their own modestly priced accessories. The reason they can price so modestly is that they know they've got that tie in. A Cybershot would probably be another $50 or more if it used SD...and you'd probably look to Fuji or Canon.

In this, Sony's a lot like Apple. They spend time designing things, rather than just doing what everybody else does, and in turn their prices are a bit higher. And in designing them, they look to make really dramatic choices. Like using a single removable media for EVERY device, from camcorders to MP3 players to (I think) the PlayStation itself. Bash Memory Stick all you like, but when it first showed up it was faster than Compactflash and more durable than Smartmedia. Nowadays, you can't buy a Sony device that doesn't have a Memory Stick port in it somewhere, which is pretty cool. In the same time, competing camera and media companies have created no less than 4 different media types, including MMC/Secure Digital and xD. Sony's dogged devotion to Memory Stick has made things easy for customers and made them a pretty penny...there's NO reason for them to switch formats. Do you think that they care about using a standard medium? If they did that, nobody would buy it from them! They have the clout to create a defacto standard, and they're gonna do it.

Personally, I agree with you on Atrac3, but since some of my favorite artists are on Sony or Arista, I'm hoping instead that Apple adds Atrac3 support to the iPod. Because Sony is NOT going to change their mind -- nor should they, because as you list their failures, I could make an equally large list of successes. Things like the Trinitron tube, the Walkman, the compact disc, and the goddamn Playstation.

Re:Sony rant

You make some good points. However, I still disagree in many respects. First off is this "high quality" Sony stuff you refer to. I once bought into this argument and had it backfire big time. 5-6 years ago I bought a VAIO laptop that cost me a pretty penny. 1 month out of the year long warranty it took a shit bigger than its intestines and died forever.

I've had DVD players from them quit reading discs in the middle of playback and never read them again. Its very easy to find others with similar experience. Sony hardware consistently fails quicker than that from Pioneer, Philips, Toshiba, etc.

They have the clout to create a defacto standard, and they're gonna do it.

A defacto standard is one that everyone uses. If Sony put any effort into getting others to adopt their formats, I would lay my argument to rest. As it is, only Sony uses Sony formats, so it is not a standard. Any brain dead fuck can build stuff and use it without regard for anyone else. As it stands, myself and many other people I know won't buy Sony equipment because it locks them into more expensive and restrictive choices. I want choice. If I buy a CLIE, I need a Sony camera to use my flash memory. I might buy both devices if they used more standard memory, but as it is I won't buy either because what if I want a non-Sony SD device down the line.

The sucessess you list all point to instances where Sony adopted an open format. With Trinitron, that is just a TV tube technology meant to display images. You don't need "Trinitron-compatible" cable from your company to use a TV tube. The Walkman used casettes and later CDs, open standards. I don't see many MiniDisc NetWalkmans around. Those aren't standard. Compact disc, developed with Philips I believe and opened as a standard.

The Playstation is good, granted. The game console market is remarkable different than the general consumer electronics market however. It's much more accepting of single-vendor solutions.

Re:Sony rant

Alright. Cute rant, but remember this: the reason Apple gear is such high quality is because they put a lot of money into research, design, and development. To recoup said monies, they have chosen to make their modestly priced devices compatible with a lot of other modestly priced accessories. The reason they can price so modestly is that they know they've got a good product. An iPod would probably be another $50 or more if it used Atrac3...and you probably and you'd probably look to Sony or Creative.

In this, Apple's a lot like Sony. They spend time designing things, rather than just doing what everybody else does, and in turn their prices are a bit higher. And in designing them, they look to make really dramatic choices. Like using a standard audio format media for EVERY device, from computers to MP3 players. Bash AAC all you like, but when it first showed up it was better than MP3 and more available than WMP. Nowadays, you can't buy a Apple device that doesn't have a AAC playback in it somewhere, which is pretty cool. In the same time, competing computer and media companies have created no less than 4 different audio types, including MP3Pro and WMP. Apple's dogged devotion to AAC has made things easy for customers and made them a pretty penny...there's NO reason for them to switch formats.

Personally, I agree with you on Atrac3, but since some of my favorite artists are on Sony or Arista, I'm hoping instead that Sony adds AAC support to the audio players. Because Apple is NOT going to change their mind -- nor should they, because as you list their failures, I could make an equally large list of successes. Things like the iMac, the QuickTime, the PowerMac G5, and the goddamn iPod.

Re:Sony rant

Time and time again your formats fail. Betamax, Memory Stick, MiniDisc, SACD, ATRAC3, and on and on and on. Give it up.

Betamax had quite a successful life in professional use, that only just recently ended.

Memory Sticks aren't exactly dominating the world, but so what? They have a chunk of the market, and are making money. SD isn't taking over the world either... I am, and I'm sure many others are, a CompactFlash hold-out. I don't know why people insist on insignificantly smaller, significantly more expensive, and less compatible SD, but I'm certainly not willing to go along with it.

MiniDiscs aren't a failure by any measure. They haven't replaced CDs, but nothing else has either. They've sold quite well, continue to do so, and replaced DAT almost completely.

SACD can hardly be called a failure. It's just barely gotten started. You could just as well have called CDs a failure a few years after they were introduced. It's not as if DVD-Audio (or any other technology) has been selected to replace CDs, rather than SACD.

ATRAC3 is FAR more successful than many other common audio codecs.

Besides this, you should consider that they can't always win them all... LaserDisc was an open format, yet it didn't replace the VCR. HDTV is an open format, yet it hasn't replaced NTSC TVs. I could go on like this...

Where's the beef?

n an interview with the Nihon Keizai Shimbun, Sony Chief Executive Nobuyuki Idei said it would use Cell to power its next-generation game console as well as a network television that will offer functions similar to a personal computer.

What personal computer functions, other than gaming, and perhaps IM, would function well in a living room environment? Remember when Gateway tried to pull something like this way back, with the 32" computer monitor with TV tuner for the living room? Remember WebTV?

Computers and TVs serve different functions, and I fail to see what possible advantages throwing a "high powered" processor in the TV could provide, unless it's essentially going to be a built-in PS3 with PVR capabilities. Classic computing functions like web surfing and word processing are ill-suited for the big screen.

All I want to do is mash buttons

"Next generation game console"/"network TV"/"home file server"/"other home electronics"/another thing I'm going to spend a ton of money on that I just want for games

I feel as though the more you put onto one machine the more problems/frustrations people will have...keep the PS3 as a game console (maybe with a better multi-player network) and let us choose if we want to buy everything else this wonder cell has to offer

Acronym

Soon
Only
Not
Yet

EE

Wasn't the PS2's Emotion Engine chip supposed to totally rock our world? I seem to remember the PS2 having awsome graphics only to have its ass handed to it shortly afterwards by ATI and nVidia.

As an earlier poster said, Sony sucks at designing things with developer considerations. Apparently the PS2 is a nightmare to code for.

What guarentee is there that this chip will really be revolutionary? And what has been done to ensure that it can be utilized?

The question on everyone's lips...

Yeah...but will it accept Memory Stick??!!

Sony's threat

All your appliance are belong to us!

I want my Cell TV

2006! Why so long?

I want one of those Cell workstations, now.

Watch the Cell...

The cell is going to make waves - in more areas than most people are willing to admit/understand. Sony now has such a large portion of media control they are now able to bring them all together for a single combined solution - and that means at the hardware level. If you have ever written hardware level software you will be jumping for joy. Imagine it, a nice singular interface (hardware) for ALL electronic consumer devices.. who cares about the high level software that will come.. its the low level software that will benefit inifitely.. These are the sorts of innovations that allow hardware to actually move into a new style of connectivity. And I admire Sony for:
A - Having the balls to go into so much debt for the R&D on this - it could cost them their company.
B - Looking past then next 2 years of development, and really looking 10+ years from now.
C - Not following the pack, with the x86 mentality that has railroaded cpu creation into a jumbled bloody mess.
D - Concentrating of consumer devices that not only function well, but look good. I doubt anyone here can defy Sony's good quality of products - I doubt you will find an American manufacturer who can compete there.

I give these guys the thumbs up, for thinking different (just read the patent on the cell and you'll know what I mean) and for not boxing themselves into a copy cat company..

Future prediction - Cell will very likely become a standard baseline for electronics manufacturing for the next 20 years.

Shiny.

How about a beowulf cluster... oh wait.

Geez, nobody posted

...a beowolf cluster of these...

Broadband TV ? An Anachronism.

Tv is dead . Less people are watching it. Convergence of LARGE high res monitors,computers and consoles and high speed net. Now if Kerry gets elected watch for the 100 megabit cable to your home.

Question

Why should I care about Sony's cell processor technology? I'm not asking to troll. I really want to know what all the hullabaloo is about. What capabilities will it bring to us consumers that we could not possibly get elsewhere?

P2P Network?

Oh great, I can't wait until the RIAA tries to supoena my refrigerator for illegal sharing of files...

Cell Schmell

What-EVER.

Goddamn I'm sick of this Cell hype. Especially the "using your toaster to help render Tekken 17 slightly faster" crap.

The thing holding back distributed computing is NOT the freaken' CPU. Its the software. Its not that current CPU's _can't_ do distributed computing. Its NOT that no one thought to add a "DODISTRIB" instruction to current chipsets.

Sure, Cell may do it a bit faster, but it doesn't solve the fundamental problem, which is:

Distributed SOFTWARE is FREAKEN HARD.

If any app could be instantly made significantly faster just by adding an extra cpu on a network, then they would *ALL* be doing it now. Whats stopping your office network into becoming a big distributed pool for all your apps? It certainly isn't the hardware.

If Sony had come up with a software model, or a toolkit, to turn any arbitary app into a optimised distributed computation THEN I would be impressed.

Some distinct terminology, please?

Come on guys: do you really have to call every single concept in the system a "cell"? I know you're excited about the concept, but come on. It's just plain confusing.

It could be really neat, but I suspect that (a) it won't work as well as it sounds (b) it'll be a nightmare to program for, so will be poorly used, and (c) no one will use it but Sony.

MGM Software Libraries

"Idei also said a potential acquisition of movie studio Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Inc would be aimed at effectively incorporating MGM's software library into Sony's film division." Could founders of Great MGM studios think of more humiliating end then being sold for couple of .so and .lib files.

What's with all this 'powered by' stuff?

If Sony does come up with all this wonderful technology, it won't be 'powered by' a cell chip, it will be powered by electricity, probably from a wall socket.

Someone needs to buy their marketing department a dictionary.

Actually, come to think of it, everyone needs to buy their marketing department a dictionary.

Been there done that....

Broadband TV? Thats so ... 2003. We have had it in Hong Kong for over 10 months now. Connects into the DSL modem and provides on demand cable channels.

http://www.nowbroadbandtv.com/

(My apologies... the site is in flash)

Nagasaki

Well- they claim the 300mm sample dies are from their Nagaski plant. Anyone know if they glow in the dark. I wonder if they even need a supply?

So what?

I've had a 'Cell' on my TV since December 2000. [amazon.com]

Oh, you didn't mean that...

Little Pro-Sony Rant...

It's true I like Sony, the reason? The PS2. I generaly find other Sony consumer hardware to be over-priced and mearly "competive" as opposed to killer. (I'd buy a Fuji digital camera any day, and an LG/Zenith TV before I shelled out 50% more for the Sony equivilent) BUT I bought a PS2 and I'll buy a PS3. It's not just the games, though the success of the PS1 did pave the way for developers to support the PS2 no mater how DIFFICULT it was to program for. The PS2 is NOT personal computer by design, what it is is a small step in the hardware design revolution. Look at how little power a PS2 consumes compaired to a PC with similar computational abilities. Look at how little space the PS2 hardware occupies, and then look at the data bus and architecture used in the PS2. The PS2 with the Linux kit is a perfectly usable, albeit memory limited computer, capable of handling most WEB content with ease, and running the applications that consummers use most often (EG: Word processors, E-mail, Internet, and accounting software).

More and more people are already buying consoles to play games rather than shelling out for a high-end gaming PC. If the CELL architecture can provide not only a killer gaming system, but flexible basic personal computer functionality, then low-end PC's had better watch out! Lets face it, a $400 PC may be more flexible than a PS2, but it's not a WHOLE lot more powerful, and it defiantely isn't a better gameing machine. If Sony-Toshiba-IBM (STI) can shuck the WindowsOS and provide a truly convergent appliance that sells at comodity prices, then Intel/M$ realy should be worried.

I don't think M$ built the XBox JUST to grab a chunck of the not-terribly-lucrative console market, M$ wants to protect itself from the likes of the PS2/PS3 by having a presence in the convergence market before it even hits. I think the one major mistake M$ made was closing the XBox to non-game software. It's hardware is so close to PC-norm that develpment of productivity software to run on the XBox could be as simple as a re-compile.

Sony understands the potential for these 2nd and 3rd generation consoles to perform all the functions of a basic PC and the fact that they are planing on building a CELL-based workstation indicates that the hardware may easily support a "real" end-user OS, now the only question... Linux, AIX, or something else entirely?

What kind of appliances?

"The Cell processor is expected to power the upcoming PS3 console, a workstation, server, and other home appliances to form Cell-based P2P network.

Other appliances on a network? Does this mean I can finally network my coffee maker & toaster, and run cron jobs on both to get hot, fresh breakfast at 6 AM? SWEET!

Re:Uh, mispelled..

You must be new here.

The proper cliche is:

1: Cell processors.
2: ???
3: Profit!

Re:2006 yeah right

History is on your side - but I think they're hedging thier bets on this one and it will be out in 2005. They have to compete with XBox.