![The Almighty Buck The Almighty Buck](http://a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/money_64.png)
![Entertainment Entertainment](http://a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/entertainment_64.png)
![Games Games](http://a.fsdn.com/sd/topics/games_64.png)
Virtual Property Investor Recoups Investment 208
afaik_ianal writes "Remember that guy who bought a virtual island in "Project Entropia" for £13,700? Well BBC is reporting that that he has managed to make his money back in under a year. According to the article, 'He made money by selling land to build virtual homes as well as taxing other gamers to hunt or mine on the island.'"
Old proverb (Score:1, Funny)
Clever angle though (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Clever angle though (Score:5, Insightful)
The same rules apply in the virtual world. You've got an area you call your own, the resources on said area are also your own. You could try to get a return on your investment by holding these resources until the time is right to sell, sell off portions of the resource or do nothing and be happy spending money.
Would you live on a farm that produced no product? If there were natural resources such as gems, petroleum or even attractions like waterfalls wouldn't you be at least thinking about ways to make money on them? Sure, there are some that would let people see the attraction for free, ignore the value of minerals that must be harvested in crude ways or refuse to let people shoot their animals and hook their fish for any reason, especially for money.
It's exactly like buying an island and turning a third into a resort, a third into destination spots (businesses, pristine land, room for activities) and leaving the remainder to your own enjoyment.
I mean, this guy does hunt on his own virtual island right?
Re:Clever angle though (Score:2)
I hope he eats what ke kills.... or does he just put virtual trophies on the virtual walls?
Bank loan (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bank loan (Score:3, Funny)
So do they come to get you in the real world or the online world if you default. Be pretty funny if the bank had its own guild.
Re:Bank loan (Score:3)
So this proves... (Score:5, Funny)
-barton
Re:So this proves... (Score:2, Insightful)
I would wager that ALOT of the folks who will end up reading this play these games... WoW, Everquest...etc.
Do you pay to play these games? yes... you're paying to spend your time to build up repore in an online game and have fun. This is no different.
Buying a peice of online real-estate is no different than buying software, a database of information (email addresses... phone numbers... businesses...etc)..
Actually... it's REALLY similar to buying a domain name. How many of
Re:So this proves... (Score:2)
How many MMO's have a long lifetime, or a widespread adoption? Not all of them, not by any stretch.
The dumbness is not in buying virtual land, it's buying virtual land attached to an unproven game. If they'd folded, he would have owned a lot of nothing, with no legal recourse.
Kinda like buying a whole lotta waterfront pr
Re:So this proves... (Score:2)
Things have worth that others ascribe to them. For some reason, folks assign worth to this 'virtual' space, this collection of 1s and 0s, primarily, I assume, because of the expectation that others ascribe similar worths to these 1s and 0s. The problem is, there's really no inherent value to these 1s and 0s, like there is to, say, real estate in the physical world, or ownership in a company that has real assets.
Therefore, the whole 'value' of these
Re:So this proves... (Score:2)
Re:So this proves... (Score:2)
But my point was not that 1s and 0s are inherently worthless. They have worth if people ascribe worth to them. The 1s and 0s in a bank have real worth since they represent real money which has (currently) worth in reality. But what worth do the 1s an
Re:So this proves... (Score:2)
The "value" of anything, 1s and 0s included as well as cars and houses, is the value people give it. The 1s and 0s ChoicePoint [choicepoint.com] has are valuable to lots of people, but still are 1s and 0s. The difference is that ChoicePoint's 1s and 0s idealy represent real world phenonema that can be leveraged for real world cash.
In this game, the 1s and 0s are supposed to mimic property. The reason property is valuable in
Re:So this proves... (Score:2)
Re:So this proves... (Score:2)
Likewise, many "property" items (vehicles, say) have value only based on ready a
Re:So this proves... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:So this proves... (Score:2)
And if you want to claim that it's "virtual" and thus not "really" worth what it sold for, then don't look too closely at why diamonds are priced as they are.
Re:So this proves... (Score:2)
Well WorldCom and Enron are regulated by the Securities and Exchange Commission. As such, their stock was finite (i.e. they wern't just inventing shares, there was a limited supply and at one time a high demand - making the stock valuable.) What's to stop the game makers from just adding another nice island? And another, and another - then they aren't rare, leaving the first guy with light pockets while the last guy can
Re:So this proves... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:So this proves... (Score:2)
Not exactly. A $25K/year intern with a warezed copy of 3DSMax can't create a new resort island in the real world.
Re:So this proves... (Score:4, Interesting)
Because you're only a floating point error away from being a billionaire.
Re:So this proves... (Score:2)
That's why I only buy computers with the Genuine Intel Inside sticker.
-
Re:Everything? (Score:2)
Instead of seeing the virtual as a replacement for the physical, I see it as an augmentation and a way of creating changes and new relations in "the real".
Re:So this proves... (Score:2)
And I bet those future PhD. economicists are the only ones in their respective classes who will get jobs with their degree straight out of college
An insightful post from the previous /. story (Score:2, Funny)
One of the many similar comments on the older
Virtual Property (Score:5, Insightful)
Online "property" has as much value as people are willing to pay for it. This is why we spend thousands of dollars on shiny rocks and metals (to say nothing of the diamond cartel). This is also why we hold onto generally worthless items because of sentimental value. (I had my Chuck Taylor All-Stars for years after they were too worn out to wear).
So I'm not surprised that this guy is making money. He found something that he expected people would want, and snatched it up so he could be the one to sell it to 'em.
Re:Virtual Property (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd like to see abundance modeled into more game worlds. I mean there's no good reason (other than familiarity) for virtual realestate to be kept artificially scarce in a game where "space" isn't real -- your 10,000 acre slice of paradise could exist anywhere with mu
Re:Virtual Property (Score:2)
Re:Virtual Property (Score:2)
This is the virtual space after all, where does it say you have to be limited to the structured 3D of the real world? You can have your 10,000 acre paradise as a simple door off a building in the "very interesting virtual spot" for example, one click and bam! Your visitors are in paradise.
Re:Virtual Property (Score:3, Insightful)
Land is NOT scarce on this planet. We could all spread out and own a good number of acres --
world land area: 510.072 million sq km (cia world factbook) = 126 billion acres
world population: call it 6 billion (CIA says 6.5).
126E9/6.5E9 = 21 acres per person.
Game land could be infinite. Nobody would care. The price would be the same.
People go where the people are. People want to be where 'stuff happens'.
It is also a transportation issue, of course, just like in real life. Look what the car did
Re:Virtual Property (Score:2)
Re:Virtual Property (Score:2)
Re:Virtual Property -- Supply and Demand (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Virtual Property (Score:2)
Ah-hah! You lie. I've seen all sorts of your posts since you said that, you crafty A.C.
Real Life (TM) (Score:2)
Re:Real Life (TM) (Score:5, Funny)
I'm trying, but I'm having a hard time getting the paperclip in the hole on my backside. Can you give me a hand?
got it in... (Score:2)
A link from the Past (Score:2, Redundant)
Developer's Giddy (Score:4, Interesting)
copy virtual_island1 virtual_island2
print money
Not a bad deal for the island-buyer either, as long as they've determined the risks, ie. the game's subscriber base withering away.
Re:Developer's Giddy (Score:2)
It'd almost be worth buying an acre or two (Score:4, Funny)
And nobody better be touching my still out in back....
Re:It'd almost be worth buying an acre or two (Score:2)
Re:It'd almost be worth buying an acre or two (Score:2)
Glorified Slots machine (Score:5, Insightful)
Given that, the Project Entropia system cannot generate rewards greater than the amount of money fed into the system, minus however much MindArk takes off the top.
You are using a virtual tool that decays, purchased with real money, attempting to generate a positive income in a system already rigged to prevent such a scenario on average. Your tool will break, and you will buy another one, in the hopes of getting that big payoff. It's a gambling system dressed in some livelier colors.
Re:Glorified Slots machine (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Glorified Slots machine (Score:2)
Sounds like day trading the stock market. You can't make money unless other people put in money.
Re:Glorified Slots machine (Score:3, Insightful)
MindArk's take from the top is no different than the government's take off the top in the form of taxes. That revenue provides services - the servers and code in MindArk's case, roads, schools, a judicial system, and so forth in 'reality.'
Re:Glorified Slots machine (Score:2, Interesting)
Except that this is completely rigged so that you will almost always lose. There is the occasional win (i.e. earning back your money) but this is compensated by other people's losses so that ultimately, MindArk are the only winners.
The tractor will break down soon. In PE:
You will keep having to buy new, expensive ammo to keep you
Re:Glorified Slots machine (Score:2)
The tractor will break down soon.
The Sun will break down eventually, I hear.
Re:Glorified Slots machine (Score:2)
Just like real life. (Score:2)
Re:Glorified Slots machine (Score:2)
yeah, because none of them are playing online poker, I'm sure.
Just another Luxury (Score:4, Insightful)
I personally don't see the need or even want in this but it's not my money..
Re:Just another Luxury (Score:2)
The difference is that the game producers can very easily produce whatever they want in the game. Fancy shoes take raw material (leather, which takes raising a cow and tanning the hide and so on) and manufacturing (a hand craftsman that produces sharp looking shoes) which all takes time. Thus fancy shoes are more rare than a copy and paste action on a
Re:Just another Luxury (Score:2)
Re:Just another Luxury (Score:2)
Time involved? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Time involved? (Score:2)
Re:Time involved? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Time involved? (Score:2)
Re:Time involved? (Score:2)
Sure, but one can enjoy things even if they aren't games.
Re:Time involved? (Score:2)
No, otherwise there would be no such things as games. I prefer the mathematical point of view which doesn't make such a distinction.
Re:Time involved? (Score:2)
Not really, depends on what he would have been doing instead. If he would have been using that time just playing some other game anyway then he has made his money back.
Silly me... (Score:2)
Advice.... (Score:5, Funny)
Little did everyone know....
like .com stock (Score:2)
Kind of like the US Federal Reserve (Score:2)
Opportunity Costs? (Score:2, Insightful)
All your virtual items are belong to us! (Score:3, Informative)
As part of your interactions with the System, you may acquire, create, design, or modify Virtual items, but you agree that you will not gain any ownership interest whatsoever in any Virtual item, and you hereby assign to MindArk all of your rights, title and interest in any such Virtual item.
From the sound of it, the user doesn't own anything... I wish I could sell nothing for $100,000.
And then there's the space station... (Score:2)
As Dave Barry is so fond of saying, I am not making this up.
hmm (Score:2)
Stock market anyone... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Stock market anyone... (Score:2)
Yea, but in the US these markets are regulated. Therefore, the companies can't just produce stock out of nothing. Therefore the stock is rare, and if demand is higher than the supply, the stock has a positive value.
Contrast this with the game. The game designers can pump out islands as fast as they can hit copy and paste. There's no regulation to stop them from just adding another island, and another island, as long as they w
Interview with the investor (Score:3, Informative)
Today's Youth (Score:2, Funny)
Johnny: Mommy, when I grow up I want to be a virtual real estate tycoon and make lots of money!
Mom: Ok Johnny, but if you want to be successful you'll have to spend a lot of time playing your online games, and you might even need to skip some classes.
Johnny: I'm willing to make the sacrifices!
Sure, he bought an island (Score:2)
Sure, he bought a virtual island in cyberspace. But in the real world, he lives with a roommate in a U-Stor It room.
Calm down everyone (Score:2, Insightful)
You have to wonder whether "Deathifier" is as intelligent as so many people on this website are suggesting, or whether he A) was one of the lucky ones or B)simply worked alot harder than the other people to sell his propert
PT Barnum thanks you (Score:2)
All ownership is virtual (Score:2)
Now companies go under way more often then governments, but governments do go under, and land claims are invalidated. But it is similar.
Re:Wow. (Score:3, Funny)
You must pay rent to use this space.
Forward funds to his account immediately or you will be evicted.
Re:games of economy (Score:2, Funny)
Call it "stargate - in the beginning" and you would triple the players instantly.
Re:Smart Guy (Score:4, Insightful)
This is NOT land (Score:2)
This, however, is just some bits of code created by programmers working in an office somewhere. They can, and will, create almost infinit
Re:Smart Guy (Score:2)
problem with this is that it's completely virtual. The creators of Project Entropia could, at any time, create another, better looking island and cause your island to depreciate, and with no limit to how large this virtual world can be they can make as many island
Re:Smart Guy (Score:2)
Re:Smart Guy (Score:2)
Re:Smart Guy (Score:2)
Uhh, put in in the bank at zero interest (Score:3, Insightful)
This guy may have beaten the interest rate on a CD, but a CD doesn't require hundreds of hours of micromanaging, either.
Re:Uhh, put in in the bank at zero interest (Score:2)
Re:Uhh, put in in the bank at zero interest (Score:2)
If he'd put the money in a U.S. Treasury bill (aka the risk free rate), he'd have made ~4.125%. So his net gain was 1.125%. THAT is what alternatives should be compared to, because any idiot can do that. Comparing it to what some fool does in day trading is completely specious. -3% vs. 1.125% - it's obvious that "recouping his investment" is a poor decision.
Of course, he migh
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Uhh, put in in the bank at zero interest (Score:2)
No, he didn't. Go back and read what I wrote, especially the "his money is worth ~3% less today than it was a year ago due to inflation" part.
Really depends on the source of earnings. (Score:2)
However, if only 50% of his earnings came from reselling property, and the other 50% came
The real measure...$$$/h (Score:2)
I am sure we are talking nickels and dimes.
Pennies at best (Score:2)
No one but the poorest of the poor Chinese would attempt to do this as a way to make money.
Wal-Mart and McDonald's Pay Better (Score:2)
Wal-Mart checkers and McDonald's burger flippers make better money.
2 cents,
Queen B
Re:Wal-Mart and McDonald's Pay Better (Score:2)
Re:So... how is this taxed? (Score:2)
That's the theory, anyway.
Re:Offtopic? I don't think so; mod parent up! (Score:2)
If anyone asks you to explain why slashdot is now a steaming pile of crap instead of the hugely interesting site that it used to be, just point them at the moderators....
same as wikipedia territory stamping where a determined clueless loon will drive off a world reknowned expert in any given field, which, hypocritically, slashdotters will bemoan...
I think the goat story is brilliant for exactly the reasons you mention, you can apply it to so much