Fix Your Crashing X-Box 360 With String 686
mkraft writes "A gamer fed up with his new Xbox 360 crashing every 20 minutes has fixed the problem by raising the power supply off the ground with some string. Goldeneyemaster over at the GameSpot forums indicates that the main reason for his Xbox 360 freezing up is the power supply overheating. The solution is to lift the power supply off the floor and allow the air to circulate better around it."
Quality Repairs (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Informative)
If a power supply gets hot enough to fail under normal conditions, it's not a very efficient or well-designed power supply.
Modern switching power supplies should be able to function at temperature extremes without failing. Power supplies are mature technology; there's really no excuse for this.
Maybe MS should have gone with a well known high quality PSU maker like ASTEC for this.
-Z
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:4, Funny)
Yeah, too bad they went with their own out-of-ASTEC solution on this one, huh.
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Interesting)
People manufacture or design bum power supplies all the time. It seems like once or twice a year there is a story on Slashdot about a major power supply recall. At least this one hasn't burned someone's living room down yet.
Who knows what happened with this incident. When I see an ID mishap such as this, it's usually because some idiot at a manufacturing plant in BFE didn't adhere to a design spec.
Since this problem didn't seem to show up with during the small preliminary manufacturing runs, and designers / engineers usually run heat and environment tests, it could probably be a problem with final manufacturing.
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:4, Insightful)
Where I work we keep the data center at 20C, if 1 unit fails the temp usually rises to about 25C, if 2 fail (it's happened once during a hot summer) the temp rises VERY quickly. I've seen the average temp at 65C, I'd hate to guess what some of the temps were inside the servers who didn't have the thermal protection enabled in bios.
I've seen mobo's that have been lightly burnt / melted around the CPU socket.
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Insightful)
Small kids play these game systems, everyone knows that. They should be built tough. I'm guessing the Xbox 360 is probably built tough, but it only takes a single weak part to ruin all of the effort.
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:4, Funny)
Right. Because I just love playing Xbox in the kitchen. The basement too - not that it's freezing cold down there this time of year or anything.
And that beastly-looking power supply really doesn't look so nice with your entertainment system - and when you bring your Xbox to your friends' houses to play with them, you probably don't want to waste your time fitting it into their TV cabinet - you just want to play. Plus, if you hide it in the back of the cabinet behind other stuff, everything else will be blocking its ventilation.
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Funny)
"...The basement too - not that it's freezing cold down there this time of year or anything."
But how long would it stay cold with your 360 down there? :p
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Informative)
Probably what the engineers did was "think" they had a thermally stable supply when in fact the lab bench acted like a big heatsink. The thermal resistance from a lab bench would be much less compared to carpet. Finally, lab supplies are regulated so well that even if you do place them in high heat, they maintain constant power even though they are hot. The process this uses is negative feedback, and given the correct choice of chip material for the power supply controller, should never be an issue. If it is an issue, go back to Asia and yell at your designers for giving you a crappy supply.
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Insightful)
Legal responsibility, that's why. The whole point of a Professional Engineer can be summed up as "the buck stops here, and I can vouch for every piece of the design, so if the design was followed, I agree (personally; not my company) to pay the penalties."
Most people don't know this, but 'Engineer' is not some phrase you can toss around or apply as desired. It's actually a legally defined term, such as 'Attorney,' 'Medical Doctor,' 'Registered Nurse,' or 'Senator'. As is the case with the title 'attorney' or 'M.D.', it's a criminal offense to call onself an Engineer if s/he don't have a Bachelors (or better) degree from an accredited university, as well as having been officially tested and licenced by the proper governmental authorities (and have the requisite number of years of experience in the field, and have your apprenticeship signed off by multiple Professional Engineers). You can't just tack the name 'Engineer' to a job and/or title; as is the case with Attorney, in which you have to be licensed by Bar, or a Medical Doctor, in which you have to be certified by the boards, an Engineer must also meet similar requirements.
The law was written to allow only competent, licenced individuals to make decisions that can have lethal consequences. Professional Engineers are quite aware of the consequences should they not perform their job with all dilligence.
While it's been fashionable lately for tech wannabies to tack the phrase 'Engineer' to their job description; ie. "Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer", or "Certified Netware Engineer", 'network engineer', this practice is illegal and punishible as fraud in most localities. (Microsoft can call it whatever they want; but technically, you can only say you have an MCSE certificate, not that you're an Engineer.)
The practice has really only survived because Engineers, in general, don't get all pissy about people abusing their official/professional title. Hell, I only mention it for education's sake: I have an Engineering degree, I legally can't call myself an Engineer for precicely this reason -- I'm not professionally licensed by the state (nor can I become licenced until I have a few years more experience). Yet when people ask, I tell them I'm an Engineer...
Of course, in the case of people misusing the title of Attorneys or Medical Doctors... I can understand the Doctors worrying-- I wouldn't want to find out my 'doctor' simply put the initials 'M.D.' on his front door. But who in their right mind would want to piss off the same profession that includes the prosecuting attorney, the judge, and the guy defending you?
In every state in the USA (and pretty much every other democratic nation), a Professional Engineer has to sign his (or her) name to every design before it can be sold and/or built. If the design is found to be faulty, civil cases (for money) can be brought against the company. Criminal cases can be brought against the engineer for his/her negligence. Such cases against engineers aren't uncommon (IIRC, it happened to the engineers who signed off the design of the World Trade Center).
Mechanical engineers are the ones who are (legally) responsible for any thermal issues involved in a design.
Electrical Engineers don't generally have to be professionally licenced; case in point: at my university, two of the EE professors are licenced. All of the ME professors are. EE students don't have to pass the FE (fundamentals of engineering) exam to get their degree; ME students do. The number of cases where it's required to be a licenced EE are currently quite small; the largest one is to be an expert witness in a court of law. But an ME needs the licence for just about everything he does.
A good part of this is difference is maturity: The understanding of electrical devices is only a couple of centuries old; however mechanical devices are a couple millenia more mature. I'm sure a century from now, an E
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Insightful)
It is in Texas, where this nonsense was been repealed.
Which actually happens about 0.01% of the time. If the failure of the design won't turn somebody into a nasty smear or splatter, the law is universally ignored. With no consequences to the public. Welcome to the real world.
It has survived because prosecuting it would bring the wrath of the state legislature crashing down. As it did in Texas, when it was discovered that companies were being driven out of business by a state board dumb enough to believe their own pieces of paper, a state board who said with a straight face that the inventor of the integrated circuit was definitely not an engineer.
Have you actually read some of these laws? Like the one in my jurisdiction that requires not merely that the P.E. have a bachelors degree, but that it must come from an institution where every technical professor also has a PE (I.e., no institution on Earth grants qualifying degrees.)
Or the ones that define engineering so broadly that telling someone that two inches of styrofoam out to keep their six pack cool all day is a regulated act of engineering. So broadly that all radio hams must be PEs.
Wrong. The letter of the law requires all design threats to property to be licensed. Not just significant threats, all threats no matter how tiny. Every electronic device incorporating a totem-pole output must be approved by a PE (because the device will destroy itself if the upper and lower switches are turned on at the same time). That the device costs $0.08 and makes a light blink in a novelty toy powered by a AAA battery does not matter. It is Regulated Engineering and by god must be controlled.
Because writing aircraft fly-by-wire firmware and writing Hollywood graphics rendering software are both software engineering. Both require tremendous technical knowledge, the techniques for getting correct results are well established, and billions of dollars depend on each. Yet the required quality is drastically different. One must never fail, while it's OK if the other needs a full-time babysitter.
Licensure on the basis of knowledge, education, or task will always fail. Everyone will ingore it, and any engineering board foolish enough to try to enforce its regulations will be sternly corrected by their state legislature. The rational approach would be to draw up a list of particular types of designs that are regulated. E.g., airplanes, custom architecture, outdoor power lines, tanks operated above a pressure of N psi, and so forth.
And what if you could bring a particular software engineer to justice
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Insightful)
Good thing it's not summer over there, or there might be even more issues reported.
Can't wait for the Australian release - mid summer - with all the people who don't have air-conditioned homes trying to run this think in 35+ degress celcius and see what happens...
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Funny)
Re:People who live in cramped quarters (Score:5, Funny)
Personally I don't see what's so interesting about this whole solve-a-problem-using-string story. Now MacGuyver, there's a guy who knows how to use string. I mean, in one episode of MacGuyver, MacGuyver builds a helicopter using string. And a little bit of duck tape, of course.
Re:People who live in cramped quarters (Score:3, Informative)
It was originally Duck tape.
Re:People who live in cramped quarters (Score:3, Interesting)
Duct tape sucks on air ducts. Does not last very long at all.
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:3, Insightful)
well afaik a power supply has to deliver constant voltage as well as clean power. I'm guessing your run of the mill "cheap" power supply wouldn't be able to deliver and the console would crash all the time. If you had access to a good clean power supply, then I don't see a
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Informative)
The internal power circuitry of the cpu/mobo can easily "clean up" noisy power with a simple network of capacitors, however if the voltage is too low it can do nothing.
Re:Quality Repairs (Score:5, Funny)
Buying hardware from a software monopoly (Score:3, Insightful)
This kind of thing, and hell, this precise situation, would never happen in a company that is run by engineers. Real engineers, not software engineers or sanitation engineers. People who have been rigorous trained in the behavior of physical materials when acted upon by systematic application of an energy
MS has built hardware before (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft has produced sophisticated hardware before, for example Z80 coprocessor cards for Apple IIs. This let Apple II users run CP/M back in the day.
OK that was a while ago, more recently we have keyboard, mice, joysticks. Not quite sophisticated, even when you toss in force feeback
The above may not qualify as sophisticated by it does show that they are also a hardware company to some degree.
And, uh, you are aware that the XBox360 is a followup to something called the XBox? I think that little piece of hardware may fall in to the "sophisticated" category.
Irrelevant. Apple enjoys an equally monopolistic position over *it's* customers and Apple is able to design some very nice hardware.
This kind of thing, and hell, this precise situation, would never happen in a company that is run by engineers.
Like a hardware company named Apple, a company that has been producing sophisticated hardware for nearly 30 years? Oh yeah, they've never shipped with bad power supplies, bad batteries that could catch on fire,
If use of Apple offends you we could use HP (pre-Compaq), Intel, or a host of other companies to prove the same point.
Re:MS has built hardware before (Score:5, Informative)
You can bet that the XBox 360 power supply was produced over in China, Taiwan, Korea, or another nation like that, where everyone else's power supplies get built too. Why does Apple have all of these well-known hardware screw-ups despite being primarily a "hardware company" full of engineers doing R&D? Same reason! When you hear complaints of inconsistent color and "pinkish edges" on the new 23" Cinema displays, exploding batteries on one model of older Powerbook, failing backplanes on revision A iMac G5's, and much more - they're primarily due to failures due to lack of quality control on shipments from these 3rd. world countries. (EG. Faulty capacitors caused the backplane problems
Re:MS has built hardware before (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:MS has built hardware before (Score:5, Interesting)
The knowledge needed to make a large project happen is wide ranging, and not always found in a textbook, and not always found with a consultant. Supply chains, economy estimates, component interactions, assembly are truly intersting and difficult problems. The simple act of asking someone else to build something, especially if you do not understand the product, can be a major pain. And the last point about using companies that sacrifice cost for quality. That is experience. Knowing who can be trusted, and who can't.
Companies do have core competencies, and it when they merge and buy and consilidate in a fantasy that core compentencies and cultures do no matter that trouble starts. We make fun of their stupidy when the stock falls as cultures collide, but it is comments like the parent and grandparents that promote those bad decisions in the first place.
Re:MS has built hardware before (Score:3, Interesting)
Joystiq or Spong had a comparison of the power supply for the Xbox360 (huge) and the 360 devbox sent to reviewers so they can play pre-release builts and games from other regions (huger, yes, that's possible, somehow). I assume they made the bigger power supply first and it worked fine. Then someone at MS decided size was an issue, they made a new smaller power supply but to do so they had to make it borderline overheating. Now people use that power
Re:MS has built hardware before (Score:4, Informative)
a) I meant the debug box
b) Here [kikizo.com] is a picture of the two. And here [kikizo.com] the article the picture's from
Re:MS has built hardware before (Score:3, Interesting)
The first X-Box was a big PC in a box. Literally, if you open it up, it's a bunch of standard computer parts. I'd call that "good marketing in getting people to buy a keyboard-less PC," but not sophisticated hardware design.
Re:Microsoft Wireless Networking (Score:3, Insightful)
Cases in point: The Pipeline P50 and P75 would lock up after running for a while in NAT mode, so would early versions of the LinkSys BEFSR41, as well as the Efficient Networks SpeedStream 5660 and later model NetGears (after the switch from Zynos.) Oh, and my beloved SMC Barricade 7004ABR did the same thing in or
Simpsons' Individual Stringettes - finally a use! (Score:5, Funny)
Adrian Wapcaplet: John Cleese
Mr. Simpson: Eric Idle
Adrian Wapcaplet: Aah, come in, come in, Mr....Simpson. Aaah, welcome to Mousebat, Follicle, Goosecreature, Ampersand,
Spong, Wapcaplet, Looseliver, Vendetta and Prang!
Mr. Simpson: Thank you.
Adrian Wapcaplet: Do sit down--my name's Wapcaplet, Adrian Wapcaplet...
Mr. Simpson: how'd'y'do.
Wapcaplet: Now, Mr. Simpson... Simpson, Simpson... French, is it?
Mr. Simpson: No.
Adrian Wapcaplet: Aah. Now, I understand you want us to advertise your washing powder.
Mr. Simpson: String.
Adrian Wapcaplet: String, washing powder, what's the difference. We can sell *anything*.
Mr. Simpson: Good. Well I have this large quantity of string, a hundred and twenty-two thousand *miles* of it to be exact,
which I inherited, and I thought if I advertised it--
Adrian Wapcaplet: Of course! A national campaign. Useful stuff, string, no trouble there.
Mr. Simpson: Ah, but there's a snag, you see. Due to bad planning, the hundred and twenty-two thousand miles is in three
inch lengths. So it's not very useful.
Adrian Wapcaplet: Well, that's our selling point! "SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL STRINGETTES!"
Mr. Simpson: What?
Adrian Wapcaplet: "THE NOW STRING! READY CUT, EASY TO HANDLE, SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL EMPEROR
STRINGETTES - JUST THE RIGHT LENGTH!"
Mr. Simpson: For what?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Uuuh..."A MILLION HOUSEHOLD USES!"
Mr. Simpson: Such as?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Uhmm...Tying up very small parcels, attatching notes to pigeons' legs, uh, destroying household pests...
Mr. Simpson: Destroying household pests?! How?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Well, if they're bigger than a mouse, you can strangle them with it, and if they're smaller than, you flog
them to death with it!
Mr. Simpson: Well *surely*!....
Adrian Wapcaplet: "DESTROY NINETY-NINE PERCENT OF KNOWN HOUSEHOLD PESTS WITH PRE-SLICED,
RUSTPROOF, EASY-TO-HANDLE, LOW CALORIE SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL EMPEROR STRINGETTES, FREE
FROM ARTIFICIAL COLORING, AS USED IN HOSPITALS!"
Mr. Simpson: 'Ospitals!?!?!?!!?
Adrian Wapcaplet: Have you ever in a Hospital where they didn't have string?
Mr. Simpson: No, but it's only *string*!
Adrian Wapcaplet: ONLY STRING?! It's everything! It's...it's waterproof!
Mr. Simpson: No, it isn't!
Adrian Wapcaplet: All right, it's water resistant then!
Mr. Simpson: It, isn't!
Adrian Wapcaplet: All right, it's water absorbent! It's...Super Absorbent String! "ABSORB WATER TODAY WITH
SIMPSON'S INDIVIDUAL WATER ABSORB-A-TEX STRINGETTES! AWAY WITH FLOODS!"
Mr. Simpson: You just said it was waterproof!
Adrian Wapcaplet: "AWAY WITH THE DULL DRUDGERY OF WORKADAY TIDAL WAVES! USE SIMPSON'S
INDIVIDUAL FLOOD PREVENTERS!"
Mr. Simpson: You're mad!
Adrian Wapcaplet: Shut up, shut up, shut up! Sex, sex sex, must get sex into it. Wait, I see a television commercial - There's
this nude woman in a bath holding a bit of your string. That's great, great, but we need a doctor, got to have a medical opinion.
There's a nude woman in a bath with a doctor--that's too sexy. Put an archbishop there watching them, that'll take the curse
off it. Now, we need children and animals. There's two kids admiring the string, and a dog admiring the archbishop who's
blessing the string. Uhh...international flavor's missing...make the archbishop Greek Orthodox. Why not Archbishop
Macarios? No, no, he's dead... never mind, we'll get his brother, it'll be cheaper... So there's archbishop Macarios, his brother
and a doctor in the bath with this nude woman, two doctors and a dog....
Leave it to Microsoft. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Leave it to Microsoft. (Score:3, Interesting)
Why didn't they do more in-depth burn-in tests of these?
I mean, sure, defects are common in manufacturing, but something as simple to detect as overheating?
With a unit of this cost, one would think that their engineering team would have, at the very least, warned that overheating 'may' be an issue.
Re:Leave it to Microsoft. (Score:5, Funny)
They did, but the test site burned down before they completed the tests.
Re:Leave it to Microsoft. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why would they?
Why should they incur that expense?
They have beta-tes^H^H customers out there that willingly PAY THEM $400+ to do it for them. Literally fighting each other at stores for the oppurtunity.
Re:Leave it to Microsoft. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Leave it to Microsoft. (Score:5, Funny)
All MS jokes aside (Score:3, Insightful)
And 'fixing it with string'? Sounds more like 'fixing it by allowing it to get some AIR'...
Re:All MS jokes aside (Score:5, Informative)
I fail to see why this would be considered 'misuse' of the Xbox. It really ought to be able to live anywhere your stereo does. Especially with an external power brick that is dealing with much of the heat.
Re:All MS jokes aside (Score:3, Insightful)
Also, I realize that it's a trade-off of cost vs usability, but game consoles generally live in the little empty space in the entertainment center cabinet next to the TV screen, so they must be designed to tolerate high temperatures without failure.
I suppose Microsoft will get to do an embarassing pr
Re:All MS jokes aside (Score:5, Interesting)
If they want to compete in that arena, where VCRs, DVD players, stereos, and the last generation of consoles lived (and every console before that), then they better make damn sure their hardware works in that environement. After all, *they* are the ones that want to compete in the living room. The console must conform to the entertainment center, not the other way around...the $400 purchase simply won't drive the design of a living room for 95% of the people buying one (that number was made up...but I'm sure it is a vast majority).
If this is not the case, then the XBox360, PS3 and whatever else just become another type of PC, with an entire area set up to accomodate that particular piece of hardware. Trust me when I say that this is not what most consumers want, and is certainly ot what MS (Sony) wants. If we are going to do that, just get a nice PC and game there. At least PCs are upgradeable as you go along to accomodate new requirements as games come out.
The solution? Design a friggin' power supply that doesn't overheat when it sits on a carpeted floor, or in the back of a entertainment center. It's been done thousands of times before, and we need to see this for what it is: a defect. Just like the release of the PSP, just because the manual says that "8 or fewer dead/stuck pixels are normal and not a defect." doesn't *actually mean* that 8 or fewer dead/stuck pixels isn't a defect. MS can tell us that the power supply should be placed in the bottom shelf of your freezer to "properly" set up the XBox360, but that doesn't mean that it isn't a problem with the unit.
NOTE: I am not a bitter Xbox360 owner (I don't own one at all), just simply observing from the sidelines. I agree people should do their research, but that doesn't mean the company can make whatever demands they want on the consumer in the manual and they become reasonable.
Re:All MS jokes aside (Score:5, Informative)
Re:All MS jokes aside (Score:5, Insightful)
Do not place the console or power supply near any heat sources, such as radiators, heat registers, stoves, or amplifiers.[/blockquote]
So where do I put it? Not everyone has a concrete pad with air conditioning running over it to play their games. This is an applicance like your stereo, like your tv, like most of the stuff people stuff into an entertainment center. It's insane that you have to have so much ventilation for a game system like that.
Re:All MS jokes aside (Score:5, Insightful)
My most recent 20" box fan came with a manual. It says to never ever EVER put the fan in a window. The picture on the box shows it in a window. I have it in a window. It works fine there.
I have a humidifier, with a great big scary orange sticker on the inside of the lid, that actually says (paraphrased) "WARNING: If this unit becomes wet, unplug it, let it dry fully, and have it inspected by an authorized service technician before attempting to use it again". And what purpose does this lid, with so dire a warning, serve? You lift this particular lid to... FILL THE THING WITH WATER!
Virtually the entire warning section in most manuals exists solely for the purpose of helping the manufacturer fight off product liability suits. In the case of the box fan, some moron probably tried to use one in a window in the rain, and got zapped or burned his house down. That doesn't mean that I can't put a fan in the window on a nice sunny day, it just means if I do something stupid Lesko can say "see, we told you so!". For the humidifier, I don't quite know what they had in mind, but I have 100% confidence it involves covering their butts in some way.
So when the XBox360 says not to use it on a bed or sofa, which I expect accounts for where 99% of people would use it... Even those who read the warnings will tend to ignore it as just another sad attempt to protect Microsoft from morons.
Re:All MS jokes aside (Score:3, Informative)
Now I dont have the 360, but from these pics [gamespot.com], it looks like any other black power brick (just really big) - IE: no such ventilation openings (the power supply in your PC is what co
Re:All MS jokes aside (Score:3, Insightful)
They've done worse before... (Score:5, Informative)
I don't give a rat's ass about Sony's problems. I'm here to ask about the awful consumer experience I had with my original Xbox and what exactly is the truth about this new product. Here are links that show what a known issue those drives were.
http://sentientcreations.com/xboxIssues/problem.p
http://www.llamma.com/xbox/Repairs/xbox_dvd_repai
Now there's an entire market based upon replacing your Xbox's DVD drive with a better one such as Samsung.
Microsoft's support solution: clean the disc. No matter how many times you tell them the disc is brand new, they say it's a dirty disc.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb
Then there was the power supply issue. A recall in which power cords were issued to cover up shoddy circuitry that could and did cause house fires. Mostly due to bad soldering. In the recall, older Xboxes were given power cords with breakers, so in the event of a short, you may burn out your Xbox but at least your house won't burn down.
http://s4.invisionfree.com/Popular_Technology/ar/
So a few weeks ago we started to see Xbox 360s in demo retail models showing the dreaded Error 74. Photograph of it here.
http://joystiq.com/entry/1234000480066825/ [joystiq.com]
Now we have reports of crashes that yes, are online and could be from a vocal minority, but I have never heard of or owned a console that crashes the way photographs show us is happening to the 360 - and let's remember the people complaining about it are the ones who braved the cold and the nuisance of picking one up.
http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/xbox-360/hours-old-a
Now apparently there is a fix in the form of suspending the power supply. People are finding it's working. Ergo, the power supply is defective. Just like the one on the original Xbox which was RECALLED.
Whatever marketing spiel Microsoft want to give, I want for them to answer one thing. What exactly is Error 74 and Error 79 - what does it mean is happening to the box. They have refused, as they did with the Thompson DVD drive, to let us know what is going wrong. Even if it isolated. Does it bode poorly for the future? Why is there a SPECIFIC error message already in the box's OS that is happening to people?
Now we know for certain that the machine is not only prone to overheating, there is an inbuilt error message related to it.
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/907533/ [microsoft.com]
And did you hear about how the tech support person told that guy to "wipe his video cables with a soft cloth"? Too rich.
It's Still An Improvement... (Score:5, Funny)
Rubber feet (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh, and keep it out of the carpet..
Re:Rubber feet (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Rubber feet (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Rubber feet (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Rubber feet (Score:4, Funny)
Once again, it appears that Microsoft has blatantly ripped off Apple.
Re:Rubber feet (Score:3, Interesting)
Indeed. How many of these do you suppose are stuffed behind the entertainment center with the rest of the wall warts?
quick! (Score:4, Funny)
Reminds me (Score:3, Informative)
Xbox360 Ad: (Score:5, Funny)
re: My xbox360 is broken! (Score:5, Funny)
Your string is on its way!
Thanks,
Microsoft Support
Re: My xbox360 is broken! (Score:5, Funny)
We have decided to deny your warranty request to replace the external power supply and deny your request for a complimentary Microsoft XPCool Strings(tm).
The reason for this is that you have not used your unit according to the specifications.
As per the instruction manual included in MS Word format on the XBox 360's hard drive, it clearly states in section 361.27.5a(iii) the following:
"As an additional winter bonus, we have provided you with a power supply that doubles as a personal block heater, this block heater must be set up by suspending over the cardboard box provided with the XBox360. Failure to do so can cause system instability or fire.
If your friend or family member has thrown away this box, please purchase an additional usage license for that friend or family member as you are clearly in violation of the EULA (as this the console is provided with a single user license); we will provide you with an extra box for power supply suspension along with the additional license upon request"
How 20th Century (Score:5, Funny)
In summer? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:In summer? (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem seems more to do with air flow though. People putting the supply on a shag carpet or no doubt going to have more heat problems than people who place the supply on it's side up on a table. The supply probably should have used some extra heatsinks though.
Still I am curious as to the ratio of people having problems in warmer clients to those in co
It makes me wonder... (Score:3, Insightful)
Jerry
http://www.cyvin.org/ [cyvin.org]
Re:It makes me wonder... (Score:4, Insightful)
Chances are they bought the supplies in.... (Score:5, Informative)
The main reasons for the prevalence of external power supplies or "wall warts" are that they shift regulatory compliance (UL, CSA, TUV, or whatnot) onto a third party (the power supply vendor), and enable the same basic product to be sold worldwide with different external supplies provided to accomodate local variations in line voltage/frequency/receptacle type.
Your girlfriend doesn't play games ? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Your girlfriend doesn't play games ? (Score:5, Funny)
string (Score:5, Funny)
From the EULA (Score:5, Funny)
If You Think It Is A Problem Now... (Score:3, Insightful)
I can see cooling being a big issue for the CPU and graphics chips which have to dissipate quite a bit no matter what, but the power supply? A well designed switching supply should have very low losses and run cool.
Re:If You Think It Is A Problem Now... (Score:5, Funny)
Sorry, pal. This is a Microsoft product.
Re:If You Think It Is A Problem Now... (Score:3, Funny)
Exactly. Microsoft products use evolution. In other words, it takes JUST A FEW MILLION YEARS to get them right - almost.
Who is the manufacturer? Where is it manufactured? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Who is the manufacturer? Where is it manufactur (Score:5, Interesting)
Made in China.
It could easily have been a management problem too... As frickin' huge as the thing is, it's possible it was even larger during development, and the management word came down "the PSU must be smaller! Otherwise the japanese won't buy it. Consequences be damned!", and it turns out this was the smallest they could get it.
I fixed mine with string... (Score:3, Funny)
Power supply true story (Score:5, Interesting)
I went back to report and had a very hard time from the product manager (it was in fact so bad that half way through the meeting I told him I had to switch out of the language we were using back to my native English because I did not want a grammatical error to turn into an "admission" in a court of law.) But in the end he gave up.
The engineers then gave me lunch and told me that everybody knew that the project manager had specified to the PSU manaufacturer that the unit had to work up to 35C free air - completely failing to allow for its being used on a carpet, on top of a hot TV, or even on top of the TV covered in magazines. Nobody could understand what sort of a house he must live in that he was unaware of how the box was actually likely to be used.
Reminds me of my old Commodore 64 (Score:3, Funny)
The HSF solution... (Score:5, Funny)
Two HSF @ $7.49 - $14.98
Two Arctiv Silver tubes @ $8.99 - $17.98
A reasonable total of $32.96 to solve yet another MS oversight.
that's odd, the PS doesn't get very hot... (Score:5, Informative)
First of all, I separate the power supply from the 360. I have my 360 in a stereo cabinet, but I have the power supply behind the stereo cabinet on the floor. I did this because it was clear from the 24" power cable between the PS and 360 that MS intended this to be possible. Second of all, I cut some small holes in the back of my stereo cabinet for airflow. These are probably about 6 square inches total. Additionally, I don't close the cabinet completely, so I have some airflow out the front.
I also have been experimenting with fans just to see the effects. Here's a set of measurments I did with the front opening cracked a bit. This is the temperature in the stereo cabinet space (about 8 cubic feet) containg the 360.
0:00 - 73.4F (ambient)
0:30 - 89.4F
0:50 - 94.8F
1:10 - 98.1F
1:30 - 100.2F
1:50 - 101.7F
2:10 - 102.7F
2:30 - 103.5F
Then I turned on the fan in the cabinet and the temp dropped to 98.8F. With the fan on, I could close the front door completely and the temp still only rose to about 100F.
Clearly this thing is a heat monster! If I measure the temp at the output fan it, it has risen over 115F.
But, I have checked the power supply in back cursorily, and it just doesn't get all that hot on its own. This makes sense, given that if the PS is about 80% efficient, then only 50W is being dissapated by the PS back there, and 200W is being dissapated by the 360 in front.
So, although I haven't had any problems, my recommendation would be first of all, get your 360 out of that confined space. It just generates too much heat for that. Second of all, even in a semi-confined space, get the power supply away from the 360, preferably get it into its own "cooling zone".
For sure, do not put the power supply directly behind the 360 in any kind of smallish space! The 360 draws air in at the back, at the lower of the two fans (on the right if it is laying down). If you put the PS right there, it will not only block the airflow, making the 360 take in its own exhaust, but it will also heat up the intake air even further.
My guess is people who are having this problem, and don't have the 360 in a small, sealed space are mostly just putting the PS in a bad place, and putting it on strings, is just a complicated form of relocating it so it isn't there heating up the 360 intake air.
Re:that's odd, the PS doesn't get very hot... (Score:5, Funny)
I have another solution (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I have another solution (Score:5, Funny)
Darwinizing xbox fanboys/girls is not the solution.
Re:I have another solution (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I have another solution (Score:5, Funny)
Darwinizing xbox fanboys/girls is not the solution.
At least it's an aqueous solution.
360 Degrees (Score:3, Funny)
Zalman, Thermaltake and others... (Score:3, Funny)
When office supplies control the world... (Score:4, Funny)
String solved overheating problems...
Does Staples or Office Depot sell stock? I have a feeling they could help me become very rich, soon...
Back to nominal uptime (Score:3, Funny)
Doesn't work for PC (Score:5, Funny)
Apparantly Microsoft forgot to mention (Score:3, Funny)
Obligatory Simpsons Quote (Score:5, Funny)
Could you explain your model, young man?
GRIMES:
What's to explain? He's an idiot!
LENNY:
Pipe down!
HOMER:
Well basically, I just copied the plant we have now.
BURNS:
Mm-hmm.
HOMER:
Then, I added some fins to lower wind resistance. (pointing) And this racing stripe here I feel is pretty sharp.
Re:What a fucking disaster (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What a fucking disaster (Score:4, Insightful)
I know you're a troll and you don't really deserve an answer, but...
Actually it's not Microsoft users who love getting raped, it's early adopters. And a damn good thing too: without early adopters, we patient and reasonable consumers wouldn't get good products with all the design kinks worked out.
Re:What a fucking disaster (Score:4, Insightful)
You are probably right... but if everyone was a 'patient, reasonable consumer' then maybe MS would have to fix their shit before they, you know, ship it? Otherwise no one would buy it. Just a thought.
Re:Why are we so tolerate this behavior? (Score:3, Insightful)
People are rebooting thier fuc
Re:Does it really make that much of a difference? (Score:4, Interesting)
Water conducts heat about 25x better than air (which is why hypothermia hits in minutes when you are in 35 degree water, but can stand in 35 degree air for half an hour or more with little more than a shiver) but not too many people will let you flood their homes just to keep them warm.
Modern electronics use cooling fans because they are cheap, and because they work good enough. For serious heat management, you are back to liquids (look at car engines, for example.)
It looks like the MS power supply could use some cooling fins, because dunking it in mineral oil (while effective) isn't particularly end user friendly.
Re:It crashes too (Score:4, Informative)
This page is in german, but the HTML code can be seen with no problems. I managed to bring 2 out of 3 windows XP installations down by this trick (sometimes, you have to wait a little while before it crashes, but it most probably will)
Re:It crashes too (Score:4, Informative)
You can't limit things like number of processes without knowing what the machine is supposed to do. A limit of 30 processes might be perfectly fine on a firewall, and completely insane for a machine that runs Apache. Set it to 500, and it won't prevent the firewall from becoming unusable due to a fork bomb, which may very well consume all available memory.
Same goes for things like memory limits. Databases are expected to use up most of the RAM available in the machine, very unlike a computer used for word processing, where it's very rare for any single program to consume a large fraction of RAM.
This is in no way unique to computers. You can't apply the same current limits to a residential house and a factory.
Thing is, this kind of safety measures only work when you know the setting, the expected resource usage, and put limits in the right place. They're specific for each particular situation.