Most modern single-player RPGs have changed quite a bit since the early days of the NES. Real-time combat and epic story arcs have allowed the traditionally hardcore RPG market to draw in new fans who may not otherwise want to invest 100+ hours on a single title. Square Enix, the company that founded the genre, spits in the eye of progress with Dragon Quest VIII. This traditional dungeon delve has an old-school heart with a beautiful current-generation exterior. Read on for my impressions of the latest chapter in the mind-numbingly popular Dragon Quest series.
- Title: Dragon Quest VIII
- Developer: Level 5
- Publisher: Square Enix
- System:PS2
- Score:9/10
Admittedly, your mind is only likely numb if you live in Japan. The U.S. first saw the series on the Nintendo Entertainment System as Dragon Warrior, and some of the most hardcore elements were dumbed down for our squishy American palates. Since those heady early days Dragon Quest has been largely absent from our shores. Dragon Quest VIII allows us to once again experience what can only be described as a Japanese cultural phenomenon.
Dragon Quest's focus is on entertaining and enjoyable gameplay, and so for the most part the game's plot can be forgiven for being fairly weak. The game's subtitle, "Journey of the Cursed King", is almost everything you need to know to understand what's going on. You, an unnamed heroic adventurer, are on the hunt for a power-hungry sorcerer. The spellcaster has stolen a potent magical artifact, and pair of royals present when the artifact was stolen are turned into a frog-demon thing and a horse. They hook up with you and your buddy Yangus (a burly fighter-type), in hopes of finding the spellcaster and reversing the magical effect that imprisons them. Along the way you encounter some typical RPG stereotypes (like the scantily clad mage Jessica), but for the most part that's the hook that drives the story. While this doesn't sound like much to go on, the NPC characterizations are so well-written and over-the-top that it's hard not to like them.
Really, it's surprisingly hard not to like everything about this game. Gameplay-wise, the latest installment of the Dragon Quest series is an unapologetic blast from the past. The game features menu-driven turn-based combat, endless hours of gameplay, a random encounter strewn overworld map, and plenty of slimes. You'd think this would tire a veteran RPG player, but the quality of the game's presentation and the obvious effort the designers put into the game's systems is inspiring. The overworld map, a tired warhorse in the gaming world, is a beautifully rendered naturescape. Beautiful glens, soaring caverns, and imposing ruins all lie hidden within the gameworld. The mini-map, a constant companion in most games, is blissfully absent. Without any easy-access artificial assistance, the temptation to explore is overwhelming, and can lead to some interesting hard-to-find creatures and treasures.
This sense of exploration is only broken by the occasional encounter with wandering monsters. The pace of encounters is well spaced out, to ensure that you won't have to fight through several encounters just to proceed a short way down a trail. The combat is a traditional RPG line-up, with enemies on one side and heroes on the other. Players navigate an intuitive menu to instruct their characters in who and how to fight, but attacks are far from the bland or ordinary. Both monsters and heroes have an array of visually interesting attacks and spells to take out opposing forces. Giant tongues seem to be a weapon of choice for the enemies, who have an array of quirky appearances and behaviors. Besides the title-identifying slimes, there are a bevy of beasts and monsters to face down. Some of the early beasts actually forgo their turns to calmly lick their fur. This variety of choice, animation, and behavior ensures that even the most jaded RPG fan is unlikely to get bored with combat. Trying to one-button push your way through combat, if you do start to glaze over, will teach you the error of your ways quickly. The challenge level here is high, and you can expect to wipe more than once at low levels. The tenacity exhibited by a gang of cute little kitty cats can easily end in tragedy.
That gang of cats, like everything else in the game, have distinct sensibilities conveyed by their unique visual design. The whole title has a beautiful cell-shaded look, and an anime quality that brings the personality of each beast and NPC to the fore. Dragon Ball Z designer Akira Toriyama helmed the look of this title, and the result is a naturalistic landscape and highly distinctive characters. The audio environment is stirring as well. Adventuring music takes center stage, with the occasional more thoughtful piece thrown in to highlight some of the game's quieter moments. Despite the tissue-paper plot, the voice acting is top-notch. The laughable whining and cowardice of the King and Yangus's thick brogue should set the standard for RPG cohorts in future titles. The dialogue's localization is also tremendous, with some jokes managing to be bitingly clever. It's hard not to appreciate the attention to detail spent here, as the inordinate amount of time you'll spend with these characters almost requires a sense of connection and empathy. While they may not make you cry, you'll definitely enjoy spending time with these likable non-people.
Dragon Quest VIII is not an evolution in the genre, nor is it likely to convert a dyed-in-the-wool anti-RPG nut. It's a challenging old-school game that appeals directly to traditional fans, and does so with personality, levity, and a lot of style. The hack and slash, turn-based combat system has never been so lovingly displayed as it is in this title. If you ever find yourself pining for those long-past grind sessions, gaining levels outside of Elfland by slaying ogres, this is a game you simply must play.
and a playable demo of the next FF? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:and a playable demo of the next FF? (Score:5, Funny)
If you don't buy it, you're a nazi.
Godwin's Law makes an appearance on the first post - Amazing!
Weird graphics (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Weird graphics (Score:4, Informative)
If you ask me, they could have used 8-bit sprites, as long as the gameplay was good.
Re:Weird graphics (Score:4, Insightful)
There are *tons* of profitable games that don't have top of the line graphics. They just aren't super hyped with multi-million dollar marketing budgets, because they don't need tens or thousands of copies to sell to make a profit. You need cutting edge graphic and a huge budget to justify outrageous hype fueled by a huge amount a advertising dollars, but the the need for big budgets and fancy graphics is a complete myth that only people who need to be spoon fed their content buy into.
Profitable games *don't* need cutting edge graphics. If you disagree, I'd point you to Puzzle Pirates, Popcap, Kingdom of Loathing, or one of the dozens of others of low-profile profitable games that have some out in the last year or two. If you don't know this, you're missing out. Spend a few hours to search around and see what you're missing when you don't look at games that don't advertise on television or in pay-for-reviews gaming rags.
Top-notch Voice Acting? (Score:5, Informative)
Just a fair warning: The voice acting is very over the top in a cartoonish way. If "top-notch voice acting" means realistic and dramatic to you, you'll be sorely disappointed with the voice acting in DQVIII. The accents and the content of the dialog is so silly and uninteresting, that I ended up skipping story sequences (a major RPG sin in my opinion) after a dozen hours of the same crap. You've been warned.
Great game otherwise.
Great Review (Score:2, Funny)
Good! (Score:5, Insightful)
You know, just because people have come up with new gameplay mechanics doesn't mean we should abandon the old ones. It's about time some tried and true turn based RPG came back on the market. The game market has grown, and there's room for the old style and the new style out there. I think it's fair to say that the old turn based style games offer different types of strategy than the newer real time games, and I was getting a little tired of every new RPG testing my reflexes and jacking up the pace. Those are good games, but sometimes you want to slow down and relax a bit, or add in the increased complexity that having turns allows.
If somebody came up with a real-time version of a game like chess that was sufficiently fun that it became popular, I bet people would still play the old version too. Why should video games be any different. While they're at it, let's get some good old style 2D (the environments, not the graphics nescessarily) platformers back out there for non-handheld systems. Perhaps something that uses the Symphony of the Night engine. Maybe the Revolution will bring some of these types of games back.
Re:Good! (Score:5, Funny)
(http://www.keirstead.org/)
If somebody came up with a real-time version of a game like chess that was sufficiently fun that it became popular...
It's called war.
And it seems to be extremely popular nowadays.
Excellent Game (Score:3, Interesting)
Loving the game (Score:4, Interesting)
And lest we forget, Jessica is rather, err, bouncy... o.o
I don't know if it's that it's old school.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Bad example, Zonk! (Score:3, Interesting)
(Last Journal: Tuesday November 13, @11:26PM)
And that's not a Dragon Quest/Warrior game - that was Final Fantasy!
The better analogy would have been fighting Wyverns in a swamp while carrying Princess Gwaelin back to King Lorik...
Re:Bad example, Zonk! (Score:5, Funny)
(Last Journal: Saturday October 27, @04:36PM)
After getting my ass roasted by that damned dragon, the least the bitch could have done is walked herself.
Need for Games Like These? (Score:3, Insightful)
Endless zombie gore
pales before the epic thrill
of asterisk spam
-A haiku for MUDs.
Good old Dragon Warrior (Score:1)
(http://armanox.no-ip.org/ | Last Journal: Wednesday October 10, @12:25AM)
I knew it! A.T.'s handiwork... (Score:2, Interesting)
I did a little research and he designed the monsters and characters
Re:I knew it! A.T.'s handiwork... (Score:5, Informative)
(http://www.nwinfo.net/~mcantrell/)
Yuji Horii has done the storyline and scenarios for every game in the series.
Koichi Sugiyama has done the music for every game in the series.
They, combined, are the "DQ Team", and are responsible for the entire series, having come together to create it after enjoying Wizardry and Ultima, but thinking they were too complex for the mainstream.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_Quest [wikipedia.org]
In addition Toriyama and Horii did quite a bit of work on Chrono Trigger -- Toriyama did the art and designs, Horii did the storyline and scenarios, and several experts from the original Final Fantasy team did the battle engine, music, etc.
That's why CT was so great -- it was basically a new spin on the Dragon Warrior series of games.
Bewarned, even though DQ8 is arguably the easiest game in the DQ series, it's still leaps and bounds above the difficulty arc of modern Final Fantasy games. If you've never played a DQ game before you're in for a treat, but you *will* die a few times.
Question: (Score:2, Funny)
I love this game. (Score:4, Informative)
(Last Journal: Tuesday July 19 2005, @07:33PM)
Toriyama is the Liefeld of Anime. (Score:5, Informative)
(http://amongthechosen.com/)
If memory serves, Toriyama's done the design on all of the DQ titles... which was vastly more palatable back in the 8-bit days, when you couldn't tell how atrocious his "distinctive" character design was. He's also responsible for the aesthetic of Chrono Trigger - a game that plays great but in my opinion looks absolutely horrible: his grotesque "anatomy" and facial design seriously hampered my enjoyment of the title.
The lesson here is that a "distinctive" look and feel can alienate gamers as well as attract them - I won't play or watch anything modern that Toriyama's involved with simply because I just can't stand to look at it.
Re:Toriyama is the Liefeld of Anime. (Score:4, Informative)
(http://www.snowplow.org/tom/)
There's nothing remotely new or surprising about this--edgy art has always appealed to a smaller audience than "mainstream" art.
Frankly, I'd rather "suffer" through the occasional bizzare-looking game than have designers bend their vision for the sake of mass appeal. Take, for example, Hieronymus Bosch. Bosch made plenty of "regular" art, but he is best remembered for his utterly mind-bending depictions of demons, Hell, and Judgement. Had he abandoned his artistic direction and not composed some of the most truly exotic, horrifying pre-modern art ever created, he'd be remembered as a talented--but only marginally significant--artist, and our society would be missing out on some geuninely unique and amazing art.
Art doesn't always appeal, but it's almost always more valuable than uninspired works designed for mass comsumption. There's a seemingly endless supply of well-painted, arrow-riddled St. Sebastians out there--but there's nothing else quite like the Garden of Earthly Delights...
You seem to be a little confused (Score:5, Informative)
(Last Journal: Saturday October 27, @04:36PM)
You seem to be confusing this with the Final Fantasy series. The only changes made to the first Dragon Warrior was an improvement in graphics to make it look as pretty as Dragon Quest II ("ZOMG, I can face in four directions! Look, a shoreline!"). Later games had you dragging along ghosts instead of coffins when somebody died, but Enix didn't pull any of that EasyType crap on us like Squaresoft.
Which is why it didn't sell. Dragon Quest never apologized for being Dragon Quest.
Uh that's not how you levelled (Score:3, Insightful)
As others have noted, this more FF1 than DQ1. Additionally, you didn't fight ogres outside elfland; you go to the top of the peninsula just northeast of Pravoka. Due to the map design and the way the monster distribution is laid out in a grid across the map, in these two squares you find monsters from across the next continent. With decent buff skills, and the fact the Pravoka area is very early in the game, you can gain levels very quickly here.
(The Dawn of Souls port for the GBA makes this even more trivial with the addition of MP instead of static spell counts. I was able to complete the game in barely 13 hours with 999999 gold, level 60+ characters, and all the items, using this method followed by harvesting the dungeons out of order for items and exp.)
In Dragon Warrior, you could gain levels very quickly by fighting Metal Slimes, which gave tons of exp and had very little HP... but were very hard to hit.
DQ8 Is a Case Study On "Old School"... (Score:5, Insightful)
(Last Journal: Thursday July 10 2003, @10:13AM)
DQ8 combat engine is simplistic. I mean dirt simple to the point you can predict with "in your head math" whether you can win the fight or should flee before damage is even exchanged. This leaves a system where the only way one can challenge the player is by trying to use "Surprise! Your Dead!" rare super attacks or the equally rare chance that given 4 targets, the size of your party, they will all chose to hit just one. Neither of these senarios features much intelgence nor does it dictate any strategy or stance player should take (beyond "overwhelming forces"). In any event, you are left with no strategy to play with. No tactics to leverage. No action to minimize risks or maximize bonuses. Simply put: there are no real decisions in DQ8. You either determin in the first round if you can win or leave.
DQ8 tries to promote mindless "grinding". This sort of aimless wandering around hoping for random encounters is an artifact any level based system which DQ8 is strongly tied into. Nominally, grinding happens when a player "lucks out" or out flanks the game to arrive a place the game didn't content on seeing at this particular time or level. The problem with DQ8 and their guerilla style strategy is that by the time you disembark a city, travel to the dungeon entrance, work your way to the bottom of a dungeon, spending resources and energy along the way to do so, it is too late to show the player "Oops, you should have been a higher level!" Grinding should be tuned and supressed as much as possible. Tasked based quest systems give much more satisfaction than vague "see you when you get there" systems DQ8 uses.
Randomly wandering around, randonly bumping into creatures that may randomly kill you off just isn't fun. I seriously question they were fun back in the "old school" days too (I don't ever seem to remember thinking "oh joy! another random encounter" in any console RPG). We now have the knowledge and technology to actually instill some more complex logic and real challenges into games instead of relying on random acts of "fickle fate" to try to trip up players. If I wanted to play a game that featued such randomness, I would rather play poker.
DQ8 is a great looking game. The plot is sometimes amusing even if it is cheesey RPG fare. The music is a bit repetive but otherwise is awesome. I even like the touch that the SFX are old school. It is the wet dream of a designer who lived 20+ years ago who thought this is how these games should look like. The problem is we are play this game now instead of then and are left wonder "Why is this fun?"
Short short review. (Score:2)
(I just wish I knew what it meant)
I agree 100% with the review. (Score:3, Interesting)
(http://slashdot.org/~Audigy | Last Journal: Monday February 07 2005, @10:50AM)
Despite the paper-thin plot (as it appears to me currently, at least) the game is challenging, and encourages the players to utilize tactics other than "button mashing" to get through battles.
The monsters are detailed and adorable, and the Bestiary feature allows you to look at monsters you've already fought and reply their battle animations as many times as you'd like if you just can't get enough.
The voice acting and the localization effort are top-notch. I can't remember feeling sorry for a character in recent memory except while playing DragonQuest VIII. Additionally, some of the jokes are incredible.
I'm glad I bought this game, and I am extremely happy that one of my favorite console RPG series is pulling in such stellar reviews in America. I look forward to many copies being sold so the game is re-released as part of the Greatest Hits series in 6-12 months.
awful review (Score:1)
The graphics are alright, the sound is so-so. The worst part? Storyline and no progression of character development. You litterally have to grind for hours trying to enter the first dungeon. Why do you need to go in there? Because you're forced to help some chick in the first town. You don't learn any background into many more hours into the game, you're just doing what you're told to. I wouldn't recommend playing this game at all.
Is this the same as the Dragon Warrior series? (Score:2)
I loved those Dragon Warrior games.
Mind-Numbingly popular? (Score:2, Funny)
(http://agh2o.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday September 19 2006, @02:56PM)
It looks like an old Sega Genesis game (Score:1)
Dragon Quest VIII (Score:2, Interesting)
The great thing about Dragon Quest is that it gives the option of exploration as well as the incentive -- something that is largely absent in most "modern" RPGs I've played. Most other so-called RPGs restrict you to the story. You don't have options to search or work for better equipment and abilities, you're given them when the story dictates it.
They always follow the same formula: story, dungeon, next town/location, buy the next weapon/armor upgrade (which doesn't actually do anything for you but was just put in to make it feel more role-playing), repeat. Anyone who plays these games is going to play every scenario under the exact same constraints as everyone else because of the strict linear gameplay and lack of options for customization. Two different people playing Dragon Quest can be at the same scenario with completely different equipment, levels, skills and abilities depending on how they played the game. Dragon Quest gives you choices, perhaps at the expense of an epic storyline, but it makes the gameplay very enjoyable. If you'd rather watch an interactive movie, might I suggest a post-SNES Final Fantasy game.
Largely absent? (Score:2)
-Erwos
Things that buggged me (Score:4, Interesting)
(http://www.flying-rhenquest.net/)
The monster encouter rate for monsters too weak to damage (or help) your party is much too high. Those monsters should stay away unless called (And yes, you can call them.)
The monster treasure drop rate is WAY too low. And the skill you can get to increase it doesn't help much.
The voice acting is... well it's terrible. They should have not had voice acting and used the extra time and money to put more stuff in the world and increase interaction with NPCs (A la Morriwind.)
Occasionally the writing was heavyhanded in a very typical RPG and Anime way. It's that whole "Oh look the bad guy is gearing up to cast a spell that will destroy my party, I'll just stand here with my thumb up my ass and let him" mentality. NO! Put an arrow in him before he can launch his attack! Or "We just beat down the big bad boss without breaking a sweat, but the next scene is of us all gasping for breath while he attacks again/does a move that makes him stronger/limps off to lick his wounds" wtf?!
All in all it's a reasonably fun game that will keep you busy for a while, but I'm still holding out for the next Morrwind game.
RPG of the Year? Close, but not quite (Score:1)
(http://www.vgrc.net/)
What!?!?! (Score:5, Insightful)
(http://www.glasshead.net/)
BS, BS and more BS. The CRPG genre was well established before Square [wikipedia.org] or Enix [wikipedia.org] were even founded as companies. Heck Ultima III [rpgdot.com] (Richard Garrot's forth CRPG) had already been released before those companies came into being, Ultima IV [rpgdot.com] was out before the first Dragon Quest [wikipedia.org], and Ultima 5 [rpgdot.com] was out before the first Dragon Warrior [dragon-warrior.com] Game.
Dragon Warrior was a dumbed down newbie to a mature and established CRPG genre when it was released.
I'm at 25 hours... (Score:1)
The FF XII demo on the other hand blows. Taking crappy MMO gameplay and trying to turn into a single RPG will not get you anywhere. Unless some major improvements occur with the battle system and the AI before release it will probably be a rental only for me.
Elfland (Score:2, Insightful)
(FF1, for those who missed out)
PAL? (Score:1)
(http://rocksirens.com/)
Dragon Quest VIII.... (Score:1)
Mixed Emotions at this... (Score:1)
(http://www.kaihaku.net/)
Now...for the downside... Ever since this game was released, I have been surrounded with "graphics junkies" who refuse to remain silent about the game. These are the same people who refused to touch Dragon Warrior VII because of its old school feel and who still voice that Star Ocean 3 was the best game ever (How anyone can claim that after the second disc and the supposed "coolest biggest plot twist ever" is beyond me). My first RPG was Ultima III and I grew up on the original Final Fantasy, I still play games of this era as well as the current...needless to say I have my share of conflicts with the Final Fantasy VII crowd. Story and gameplay are of a bit more value to me than the latest gimmick and greatest graphics.
Now...I admit that I have no claim to making said "graphics junkies" remain silent but as a fairly old schooler I do have the right to grumble and complain about them. It's like casting pearls before swine.
It's the same grumbling I claimed when Lord of the Rings went popular. It's annoying enough to have a girl convinced that Strider and Boromir are the same person, it's more annoying to have said girl argue that you (Who happens to have read the trilogy at least four times before hand...not to mention the Hobbit, and the Silmarillion) are in the wrong. I don't look forward to this phenomena in regards to Dragon Warrior. I should have know that someday the most popular RPG in Japan would somehow surge into popular culture here... Is nothing safe?
Well...at the least...I think Akira Kurosawa and StarTropics should be safe for awhile...and I'll always have Secret of Evermore....
Mood (Score:2)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Thursday October 24 2002, @07:42AM)
Excellent examples of moods are:
NES: Legend of Zela, alone and exploring an unknown world
PS: Persona, Mysterious and spooky
None of the DQ series really ever gave a mood that I could relate to. Ultima on the other hand, Garriot had an knack for moods in those games, largely after Exodus using the Virtues as a moral backdrop to drive the moods. Sadly JPRG's (Japanese RPG) largely are lost in translation and the ability for players to relate to the content. Where did all the North American RPG developers go?
garbage (Score:1)
Re:I don't get RPGs (Score:1)
RPG = Roll Playing Game
If you want actual Role Playing, start a game with friends/acquantancies/random people off the street, etc, or go back to the old style mud/mush/moos and start there.
Re:I don't get RPGs (Score:2)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday April 11 2006, @05:02PM)
See, I don't think you've actually laughed at the writing of each and every RPG you've ever played.
So, could there ever be any RPG plot you approved of?
Re:I don't get RPGs (Score:1, Insightful)
Adventure games: Try every option until you pick the right one. Yay.
FPS: Run around, shoot stuff. Yay.
RTS: Let's see who can click the fastest. Yay.
Re:Characters (Score:2, Informative)
(Last Journal: Tuesday July 19 2005, @07:33PM)
Re:It's About You (Score:1, Interesting)
Role playing games have traditionally offered some amazingly subtle and beautiful challenges. Like, negotiating in a free market for the things you want. Now that is a skill that a lot of people use in real life. Fast-twitch trigger-happy shoot-anything-that-moves may be useful to some people in real life, but not me!
Another challenge in RPG's has been learning the rules. With complicated ranking mechanisms involving many variables, and huge maps with dungeons-inside-dungeons, it rivals the complexity of real life. (When's the last time you tried to use public transportation? The kill-or-be-killed skills a la Halo won't help you get on the metro.)
I could go on, but basically, that's the idea. By the way, I love Dragon Quest!
I've seen several posts like this one recently. (Score:1)
If so, have you considered the advantages of finding a slightly less prominent location from which to launch your communiques?
Re:I don't get RPGs (Score:2, Funny)
Re:RPG Music (Score:1)
For remix, there is a great website entirely destined for VG remix. OcRemix [ocremix.org]
Re:RPG Music (Score:1)
Re:I don't get RPGs (Score:1)
Lets take FPS:
"I just get bored to DEATH. Wander around, find guns, shoot monsters for nothing. Yay."
See?
Re:RPG Music (Score:1)
The OST is in synth. When they released the US version, they put the orchestrated songs on the game. So if you want the music on your game, look for the symphonic version. I'm hoping I get it for Christmas...
BTW, the demo disk had the synth versions, I think. So if anyone noticed a difference, that's it.
Re:Characters (Score:2)
Re:I hate this game (Score:2)
You do know you get items and spells that will keep these low level creatures from attacking your party, right?