Blizzard Responds To Gay Guild Debate

Edge Online reports that Blizzard has responded to the issues raised by a gay guild trying to recruit in public chat. From the article: "We encourage community building among our players with others of similar interests, and we understand that guilds are one of the primary ways to forge these communities. However, topics related to sensitive real-world subjects -- such as religious, sexual, or political preference, for example -- have had a tendency to result in communication between players that often breaks down into harassment." We discussed this story when it first came up last week.

A small difference

", we prohibit mention of topics related to sensitive real-world subjects in open chat within the game, and we do our best to take action whenever we see such topics being broadcast. This includes openly advertising a guild friendly to players based on a particular political, sexual, or religious preference,"

You decide upon your political allegiances
You decide upon your religion beliefs
You do not Choose your sexual preference .

I no more chose to be straight than a gay person chose to be gay

Re:A small difference

So what? Their contention has nothing to do with a player's choice in these matters. They claim (I'm not arguing for or against this line of thinking, just that your point is completely beside the point) that the topics mentioned are prone to bring up heated debate and therefore they don't want them in their game. No one anywhere in this argument is claiming that a gay person chooses or does not choose to be gay.

"I no more chose to be straight than a gay person chose to be gay"

Prove it.

Re:A small difference

No this is exactly the issue , WOW is rampant with homophobic speech as has been conveyed to me by many friends who are addicted .
It is natural that people would want to avoid a hostile environment and try to become part of a community in a community where they are accepted and don't risk insult because of who they are , even if not directed at them it is still really irritating .
Imagine sitting through a conversation with someone who was insulting who you are .

As for proving it , well , I don't find men attractive ,simple as that .

Basically what Blizzard are doing is trying to keep them quite as they are offering a safe haven , in case it offends some bigots .. instead of tracking down the bigots .

Why is WoW Rampant with homophobic speech??

13-17 year olds. I'm not saying that this is the sole age range of the WoW players, but the main majority are. What else are we to expect with a bunch of people that have not made it through what we call an education? They have no real concept of society at this point, and sadly one of those reasons is that our government is not trying to teach that any longer. Most of our good social programs have disappeared, we no longer teach basic laws in school (as far as the government law is concerned,) and in general we're slowly dumbing down our population by lowering the standards. What we're going to end up with is an ignorant society that has no brains, and very soon Webster's Dictionary WILL have a definition for 'sheeple.' That scares the shit out of me.

Re:A small difference

You decide upon your political allegiances You decide upon your religion beliefs You do not Choose your sexual preference . I no more chose to be straight than a gay person chose to be gay So what? Nobody choose to be black either (just ask Chris Rock =-) ), but if you had a "Black people friendly" group, I bet they'd have some issues as well. Or to head the other direction... a "White male friendly" group would probably get near universal scorn. You choose to publicly profess what you are in places you know that could offend. You don't choose what you are. The hair on my left arm is slightly darker than on my right. I don't choose that. That is how I am. Does that mean that I have to create a "Lopsided arm-hair color friendly" guild?

Re:A small difference

I do not choose my faith, my faith chooses me.

Re:A small difference

I thought your parents did?

-Rick

Re:A small difference

Do you think that if you lived in India that Vishnu might have chosen you?

Re:A small difference

You do not Choose your sexual preference .

Obviously, it's not that black-and-white. Sure there are gays who were "born gay", but it seems quite obvious to me that there are people who choose or are influenced to be homosexual.

Anecdote: A woman I know gave up on men after a third date rape. She started experimenting with women and is now happy in a long-term relationship with a woman. She admitted to me that she still finds men attractive, but she refuses to let herself be hurt again. She considers herself to be gay now.

There are plenty of cases where gay people didn't grow up feeling "different" or "out of place" or just knowing that they were gay. I know of gay men who went straight...I recall a Christian musician I heard about a while back who was gay, found religion, and is now happily married and raising children.

There's no one "cause" of homosexuality. Genetics, environment, and experiences all contribute to how a person is sexually attracted to others. Just look at the varying definitions of beauty in different cultures...what is attractive in one place is disgusting in another.

Bullcrap.

I don't buy Blizzard's response.

I see tons of pro-Christian conversations and Guild named all night long when I play. Blizzard never shuts them the hell up or takes action to remove these offensive-to-me names.

Blizazard's perception is that of homophobes. I can't see them any other way with this type of behavior.

- Posting anonymously so their GMs don't *find* some reason to kick me out of the game.

Do do you know that site's a spoof, right?

And anyway... I can understand Blizzard's positon. I mean, you wouldn't be able to use 'camping fag' as an insult anymore, and that could cause the world of online gaming to grind to a halt.

Re:Bullcrap.

Landover baptist is a parody site. This isn't [christiangamer.org]. This thread [christiang...etwork.com] discusses a Christian guild (The Forgiven). Here's another [worldofwar.net] (Pillar of Autumn), and here's a whole slashdot thread about Christian recruiting on WoW [slashdot.org], such as the God's Peons [www.toj.cc] guild.

Re:Bullcrap.

Yes, of course it's bullcrap. I mean, listen to what they are actually saying. They are saying that granting homosexuals a guild that is explicitly friendly towards them would cause these people to be a target of harassment. So they are saying that WoW is an environment that is inherently hostile towards homosexuals, and the only thing stopping a homosexual from being harassed is that nobody knows they are. Joining a "GBLT friendly" guild would be like "coming out of the closet", and the only way to stay safe is to stay in the closet.

Just like in real life. And having a support group in real life is a bad idea for the same reasons, people might find out who you really are and harass you. So keep it a secret and don't get any support... that's obviously the answer to intolerance. [/bitter sarcasm]

Yet it's exactly how WoW isn't real life that makes this argument even more stupid. Having a GBLT-friendly guild is exactly how you would get around harassment in WoW. If you have your guildmates, then you don't need to worry about random strangers to try to get groups. If someone outside your guild trys to harass you for being in your guild, then you just /ignore them. I /ignore jackasses all the time, and once you've done that what on earth can they do to you?

If you penetrate the crap and look at what Bliz's real motivations are, I'm pretty sure that really they don't want to be seen as truly "gay friendly" for fear of losing the demographic who sees "gay friendly" as basically "Satan friendly". Yet they don't want to lose the actual gay-friendly demographic either, so they toss out this half-assed excuse for why this is really all about tolerance and preventing harassment.

Consequence?

This argument is sometimes used to justify prejudicial behavior. In this case, it's being used to try to prevent it, and it's still wrong. Basically, "she was dressed like a whore, so she deserved to get assaulted" is the line of reasoning being used.
If the guild's recruiting has the -potential- to incite prejudicial comments among the immature and clueless, then they shouldn't be allowed at all? No. It's always the transgressor's fault. Always.

Sensitive.

It's really a sensitive topic. It'd be like having a guild comprised of black or black-friendly people. It would prompt political debate on whether or not black people should be able to live without asshole rednecks declaring jihads on their asses. Same thing with gays.
And, really, who wants an argument?

What a maroon

If this guy used any more grovelling, shameless weasel words in that pathetic excuse for an excuse, he would surely have reverted back to the protoplasmic ooze from which he is comprised.

Same enforcement?

With that small bit of clarification - "religious, sexual, or political preference" - I wonder if they actually enforce this policy uniformly for all of the above. Do they shut down guilds that align themselves with Christians, Jews, Islam, libs/dems, left/right, etc? If not, then you've gone from potential harassment and being singled out by other players to definite harassment and being singled out by Blizzard.

Well, I guess my only question is

To promote a positive game environment for everyone and help prevent such harassment from taking place as best we can, we prohibit mention of topics related to sensitive real-world subjects in open chat within the game, and we do our best to take action whenever we see such topics being broadcast. This includes openly advertising a guild friendly to players based on a particular political, sexual, or religious preference, to list a few examples. For guilds that wish to use such topics as part of their recruiting efforts, our Guild Recruitment forum, located at our community Web site, serves as one open avenue for doing so.

I don't play WoW, so I don't have any way to know: Is this actually Blizzard's policy? Or is this just a selectively enforced rule that's getting brought down in this one particular case? What does happen to political/religious guilds when they advert? For example, I'm pretty sure there existed at least one time a Christian guild on WoW; did Blizzard treat them this way?

If this really is the policy that applies to everyone and Blizzard's just saying "keep to the guild recruitment forum", that's really just kind of reasonable and I can't really get upset about this. But if the GLBT guild is getting slammed with rules that no one else is obligated to follow, that's unconsciable and I'm amazed Blizzard would act in a way that's such an overt slap in the face to a nontrivial portion of their members.

So why no action against the other guilds?

... sensitive real-world subjects -- such as religious, sexual, or political preference, for example -- have had a tendency to result in communication between players that often breaks down into harassment.

So my question is, why haven't they taken any action against the Christian guilds? Nothing against Christian guilds, but they obviously exist and it seems no action has previously been taken regarding their existence before this GLBT debacle. Personally, I think Blizzard is blowing this issue since they never took action on 'sensitive real-world subjects' before this point, atleast with religious guilds, so it definitely seems that they are applying a double-standard here. Given the immature atmosphere of any online game, having a guild of like-minded folk whos first reaction to any intelligent piece of personal information is NOT to curse and mock the individual, well, that seems like something that should be encouraged rather than dismissed. Otherwise, Blizzard should start the Great Guild Purge of 2006 and get cracking on those religious guilds (and if they exist, political guilds, never seen any though) as well as any other 'sensitive real world topics' instead of their current method of selective enforcement.

Re:So why no action against the other guilds?

You must remember that Blizzard was not objecting to the existence of a GBLT guild, but rather to the public recruiting thereto.

IANA WoW Player, so I can't say whether or not these "Christian" guilds recruit as openly as the GBLT guild. In Blizzard's view (and, incidentally, in mine), it's irrelevant. If Christians were a hated minority, and I were a member of a Christian guild, I would also be hesitant to advertise/recruit openly.

Although it seems (and may be) discriminatory, we have to keep in mind a few things. First of all, this is a computer game. And like someone else already mentioned, Blizzard wants to keep the focus of the game on the gameplay, and not on the politics/religion/race/sexual orientation of the players. The intent of the game is NOT to recreate real life, but to create a fantasy world, and effectively entertain the players.

Secondly, Blizzard has a lot to lose from allowing a free-for-all on their forums & servers. Yes, we should encourage tolerance and understanding, but a fantasy online world is probably one of the worst places to do so. Besides, by allowing the free-for-all that would probably ensue if they maintained a hands-off approach, the persecuted members would probably leave because the harrassment ruined the game, some of the persecuters would leave out of disgust that Blizzard allowed the persecuted, and everyone would be a little turned off by the inevitable flamewars.

Thirdly, you must remember that Blizzard owns WoW. It's a business. And their priority is to make money. If that means asking some players with unpopular real-world views or characteristics to keep said views or characteristics to themselves in order to keep more people happy and paying, so be it. They are not infringing on those players' rights to free speech elsewhere, or their religion/race/sex/orientation/whatever in real life. It's a private institution, and they can set and enforce the rules as you see fit.

I agree with Blizzard

It's a game - the reason you're playing it is to escape reality. Why would you try and bring real world issues into it? Just shutup, and enjoy the game. Blizzard certainly has two feet to stand on regarding this issue. Do you really want to see a guild war between the Pro Lifes and the Pro Choices?

Re:I agree with Blizzard

Maybe not.

But let me assure you the Guild of Indestructable vi will totally destroy the Guild of Flower-Picking emacs.

Love it or leave it

Though they are paying customers, WoW players are tenants of the virtual property owned by Blizzard. They have the right to welcome, tolerate, or decry whatever kind of behaviour they wish.

WoW players are not citizens, they are guests who must abide by the law of the land.

I'm all for free speech and the right to congregate, recruit, and broadcast, but I think Blizzard is well within their right to dissolve whatever guilds they want for whatever reason they wish. The situation is akin to putting up political posters in the lobby of a hotel - it's the establishment's right to do it, but it might dissuade people from staying.

Discriminating policies

I find it odd that their policies [blizzard.com] say they may suspend people if their character/guild/pet name contains a reference to sexual orientation, but the worst that happens to a name that contains a reference to religion (covered under "inappropriate") is a warning.

So who wants to take odds on...

How long before I'd be shut down for opening a guild as follows:

"The knights of the White Dragon are looking for new members, we are a guild centered around white christian gamers of conservative viewpoints with strong sense of racial pride"

Then when someone protests shut down all arguement with:

"We're already taking down Rag and don't mind letting you leech tier 1 epics on the weekly runs as we're all decked"

Get Real.

Blizzard would also crack down on public recruiting for heterosexual only guilds. In fact I've seen people warned about that EXACT thing believe it or not.

God forbid someone not wanting to know about your sexual preferences. Problem is gays and lesbians tend to be hypersensitive about these things. I mean I guess they have reasons to be in all honesty. But it doesn't give them the right to label an otherwise good company as being haters.

What ever happend to just old fashioned cursing?

I know that "Aww Gay!" "Dude thats so gay!" is running rampant in the online gaming community. After being accosted by a few friends of mine(RL&IG)of differing sexual orientation, we've gone back to the old days of just saying "Ah fuck" and "Dude! You got fucked!" Cause in essence thats what "Gay!" has become, a replacement "Fuck!".(Wow what a strange sentence)

Why not just go back to saying "Fuck" and not caring if someone thinks you have a lesser command of the english language?

If they harrass you for that, just tell them that... You[I] have taken up the cause to use "Fuck" in order to minimize the negativity and abuse of someone's sexual orientation by using the word "Gay" as an explitive in order to foster a better virtual reality for all manner of gamer.

That should catch them off guard.

Real life and RPGs shouldn't mix

I'll probably get modded as flamebait, but this argument smacks entirely of the whole 'Fear of Girls' video kind of situation, but in reverse.

Instead of a bunch of people deciding to yank role-playing into their lives, the decided to spend their time in MMORPGs and inject their real lives into role-playing.

Last I checked, WoW didn't have sexual orientation, and Christian beliefs weren't part of the fundamental makeup of multiverse created by Blizzard. If you want to role-play, then role-play and enjoy. If you need to socialise and engage in some kind of group therapy, then seek out a professional.

There is nothing more frustrating, IMHO, that people who usurp a perfectly good RPG to substitute for their real-life needs. Your real personality will of course affect your choices in the game, but it's still a game. If you can't handle that, log off, and go seek some help.

Look at it the other way

Questions:

Are there currently guilds that only recruit heterosexuals? What's Blizzard's policy on this? What should it be?

Are there currently guilds that only recruit African-Americans? How about guilds that only recruit whites?

Thanks Blizzard, you saved me a lot of money.

Since it seems such a popular game, I'd vaguely considered giving it a go. But if it's official policy that there are just too many homophobic morons in the game to do anything about it, then I'm glad I've not bought it.

Sexuality double-standard

I play warcraft with my wife. Our guildmates know that we're married, and thus they implicitly know that we're heterosexual. In fact, by so much as mentioning my wife, I'm revealing my sexuality. Of course, even if I were reported for that, I highly doubt I'd receive any sort of warning.

On the other hand, if god forbid a male player mentions that he has a boyfriend, he can get a warning for revealing that he's gay... not to mention getting flamed in forum discussions for "throwing his sexuality into people's faces."

I'm not clear on why someone being gay is an affront to other people's existance. Wingnuts, care to respond to this? Sin or not, why does it bother you so much if someone else is gay? Why does someone else's decision about their own sexuality have to be contraversial? Why choose to be offended when you could shrug it off as none of your business?

Re:Sexuality double-standard

This has already been pointed out many times, but the guild isn't homosexual-only, it's homosexual-friendly. And believe it or not, gay-friendly isn't code for gay-only. It means exactly what it says: everyone is welcome as long as they don't have a problem with gay people and don't use offensive language.

The big problem, really, stems from the fact that basically all guilds are straight-friendly (not that that's a problem in itself). You don't have to advertise it in your guild spams because it's just sort of assumed, the same way one assumes a car comes with wheels. It's not something you even think about, it's so obvious. Gay people don't have that luxury; the have to worry about people kicking them out of their guild if it's discovered that they're gay. Mind you, not all guilds would do this, but you can bet a lot more would kick you out for being gay than being straight.

There was a guy in a WoW forum thread a while back who was talking about how he got kicked out of a guild for mentioning that he had a boyfriend. That's something gay people have to worry about; whereas the thought of someone kicking me out of my guild for mentioning that I have a wife is ludicrous. Maybe somewhere, somehow it could happen, but I doubt it ever has.

Gay people generally don't want to throw their sexuality into peoples' faces. They just don't want to have to worry about casual remarks that might tip people off about their sexuality.

as a tile layer...

... i sometimes work at homes there the residents just happens to be gay, and all I have to say that they are much nicer people than the avarage hetero I meet up with.. maybe they're trying more than others to make a good impression but that's the view I've got (and spare me the jokes, they're not hitting on me).

And I believe that people can (and should be able to) do whatever they want with their lives.

So this kind of "news" bothers me, because nobody should really care at all.

I'm hetero btw, just to make that clear. I don't like homosexuality very much but I believe strongly in what I wrote above.

So....

So blizzard get the lawyers to write something which more or less says "we're not gonna say anything that may upset anyone, so we're just going to push it under the carpet and try to hide from everything which may upset people". This is as bad as them going "racist people? HA! I'll bury my head and let them do it all they want, but then I'll ruin their house when they try and meet together".

Blizzard take a damn stance, either get rid of all guilds (not going to happen) or let people make a guild for anything from Hello kitty fans to the village people's friday night orgy club. Most people can look after themselvs and if they can't a simple block button to shut them up will do nicely.

Absolutes

Blizzard really only has three options in this situation:
1. Freedom of Expression,
If you say that these people have the freedom to collect together and openly espouse the values/personal choices/lifestyle similarities, than you must open this standard to all "virtual citizens" in WoW. The verbal harassment system becomes moot because Blizzard has given a basic set of freedoms to all its players. This is the, "If Jewish pride groups can march near city hall then so can the Neo-Nazi's" because freedom can fully be offensive," example.

2.Allocate generous resources to monitoring harassment issues and make thousands of daily decisions in a timely manner,
This is the only way Blizzard could decide which groups can come together and advertise and which can't. Leaving behind how in the world they could develope a fair and far-reaching policy standard, the workload for this "Quality of Experience" issue would be enourmous and vastly overload the current less-than-pervasive GM staff. They would set a standard that the Executives agree with and enforce it around the clock. Unless they had the intellect of Solomon, I'm guessing that they would still take a ton of crap.

3. Cut of the problem with a "blanket" ban of things that might incite harassment,
This is the cheapest and least time consuming of the three, as they can just say, "Nope, we don't want this and its ours game so you can't do it." It is fully within their rights. We can always yell and scream about the fairness of our virtual social experience, but they are the one's in control. If you want to punish them, stop giving them money. That's what they are after in the first place. I personally am not all that up in arms about this decision. If you really wanted to do a Guild that espoused a certain value-set or lifestyle, its easy to do so in a way that is on a "person-to-person" level. And you'll probably end up with better guildmates that way anyway.

Racism

I randomly chose black as my skin colour for the game. At some point, some Euro kid ran up to me and yelled "NEGER!" which I thought was pretty hilarious given that (a) he has no clue what colour I really am, and (b) we're talking about a made-up land full of midgets and Spocks.

I have to say though that's the one and only time where I've heard anything inflammatory (apart from the usual juvenile Southparkian humour) and I rather suspect he was doing it to provoke.

So much for trying to be PC

Blizzard is trying to be Politically Correct. Although there is no specific law implementing so-called Political Correctness, they're trying to prevent some players from being angry, pissed off, insulted, and other related feelings from the free speech and opinions of others. A savvy business move to keep as many customers as possible, and an illogical position to try and maintain.

The glbt community always tries to portray themselves as downtrodden and in need of protection. Stop everyone else's offensive speech. But the moment they want to say something themselves that might either invite criticism -- or be offensive to anyone else -- you start hearing screams of "My free speech rights are being suppressed."

Truism Number 1: You can't suppress some speech rights without trampling on all speech rights.

Truism Number 2: Political Correctness is a game that can never be won due to its internal hypocrisies.

i for one..

i willingly admit that im guy and i would actually have to agree with blizzard on this particular topic. normally i would say "omg-wtf-wwjd" and etc but these games are geared toward youngsters too! i do not believe that youth should be subject to that kind of discussion. especially politics, religion, or even sexual orientation.

Now, if this was an adult only forum or chat for recruiting then i would say "guild peeps, go for it!" but if there are kids around i would do what is neccessary to protect their interests.

and for the record, im 20 years old, so im not far from one of those youths.

Gays

Okay guys just a bit of personal annoyance here.. it's on topic but I'll still get modded down.

Can we stop to refering as gay people as "gays", they're PEOPLE not "gayians", I wouldn't refer to you as a Hetro or a Straight, so don't start calling people by their sexuality. Other than what they get up to in their heads, beds and hotel rooms they're exactly the same as everyone else, so can we please stop using that damn label?

Missing the point ..

Everyone is missing the point. The real concern is that a group of WoW'ers will form a lesbian guild. In a few months when they discover that every member is actually a man playing with a female avatar, they will become enraged and destroy Blizzard HQ for making them face their deep-seated fear of being gay.

BTW

BTW, just how do you play an openly gay, or lbt, character in WoW? I don't recall seeing an explicitly glbt character type there.

Missing a part...

The Blizzard text is copy pasted from a post on the WoW Forums. [worldofwarcraft.com]

What is missing is the second half of the post. They are not banning these guilds, they are just against advertising them in open chat in the game. They have said that the best avenue of recruitment is through their own Guild Recruitment Forums [worldofwarcraft.com]. What they are trying to stop is Orgrimmar and Ironforge (Main capital cities for non-Azerothians) turning into huge (gay/republican/black/white/purple/democrat/straig ht/christian/Jew/Muslim/doglover/catlover/chronica llyillwithcancer) bashing centers.

In game bashing should properly be restricted to the opposing faction, n00bs, gold farmers, overpowered classes, and the hardcore guys who have no life and stand around showing all the 1337lewts you'll never get but still want.

Perhaps I'm missing something...

Perhaps I'm missing something... but this is a game, right? Play by the rules or go home.

EQ2 Mirror

This does really highlight a difference between the population in EQ2 and WoW, in my opinion. A guild advertised exactly the same thing in EQ2. A couple players questioned their agenda, though only a select few were hostile. After this initial phase of discovering they're legit, they're willing to accept anyone, and they're not evil ghey folks out to convert your children, people stopped bothering them and the guild got formed. I kept seeing 'em around, so I guess they were doing okay.

Another thing that happened on a chat channel was that someone start making borderline racist jokes (being both drunk and stupid), and the guy's friends immediately did the right thing and told him to get some sleep and come back tomorrow. It was one of the most amazing things I've ever seen on the internet - no flame war, no cursing, no angry posts on the forums, it just ended.

As to WoW, if they want to handle everything real world by banning its discussion, I have no problem (though I'm curious if it's equally applied -- their policy might actually get them into legal trouble if it's not). I don't know, maybe they have a point with the kiddies, but I think most people in WoW have seen enough elves strip teasing and people talking about teh cybarsechs that it's not an issue. If we really need to head in this direction, I would absolutely love to see 18+ servers so that we could stop having to worry about offending the kiddies constantly.

Who really cares?

Why in the heck does someone's behaviour in a game have to be politically correct? This wole politically correct world that is devoid of personal responsibility that we are living in really is pissing me off.

Oh no someone called you a name in an online game, lets go cry about it, even if the name calling was based upon race or sexual preference, does it really matter that much? Who the heck cares? Insult them back or brawl with them in the game or something.

Sheesh next thing we'll hear about is someone suing someone over something like this, it is just insane...

Simple solution

If you don't like it, take your money and business elsewhere.

Blizzard is a company, conducting its business how it sees fit. It makes its policy statements very clear. As long as it is following this policy (or, really, even if it isn't) YOU are the consumer, it's YOUR DOLLAR that funds them.

Personally, I expect that 'open chat' would devolve into a brain-mushifying torrent of abortion and political arguments, gender issues, the occasional stoner demanding the legalization of pot, and people spamming for cybersex. Woo, now THAT sounds like fun!

I mean, have you ever LISTENED to Barrens chat? (shudder)

*Truth in Advertising notice: I personally believe the 'freedom of association' principle logically reveals the inherent absurdity of anti-discrimination laws, too.*

No Real Life?

I might take Blizzard more seriously if they didn't themselves introduce real-life religious festivals into the games (note: I don't actually mind this, and think it's cute, but they can't do this and then condemn players for introducing similar issues).

P.

Dedicated servers?

I understand their point about in game harassment. I also understand that like minded people want to play with like minded people.

So, why not create a server dedicated to these preferences. There can be a gay server, a christian server, a moslem server, a republican server, a democrat server. Or even, how about a singles server?

This will let people meet like minded people and there will be little to no harassment. Anyone that wants to harass a group of people would essentially have to create an account on that server. And if it becomes clear that the primary intent of that account is to harass, then it can be closed.

so in other words....

blizzard is still "blaming the pretty girl for getting raped."
they're still "blaming the jews for the holocaust." wonderful.
"yes, lets get rid of racism! no blacks in the game, and nobody can call them mean racial nicknames!"

yes, you may argue that its a private game and they set whatever policies they want.
well, its my money, and don't count on me giving any more of it away to blizzard until they change their policy and stop this backwards discrimination.

Not the real issue

I think that there would be no need for a gay-/lesbian-friendly guild at all if people would just not be dicks. Who cares if someone in your guild or someone who wants to join your guild is gay? Does being gay give you stat bonuses or an epic armor set that I can't get because I'm straight? No? THEN WHO CARES?

Regardless of what the situation is, you're always going to have assholes in MMORPGs, whether they be ninja looters or general channel spammers or gold seller whisperers. Making a gay-/lesbian-friendly guild just seems kind of unnecessary. If you have people who are nice and want to play along with you because you're a genuinely fun person to play with, then the whole sexual leaning thing doesn't enter into it. Nor would race, religion, anything.

At least, in a perfect world it wouldn't.

On a bit of a side note, I decided to give a RP server a shot once and rolled up a Tauren warrior (big suprise). Within only a few seconds of wandering around the newbie area, I got whispers from some guy asking if he could give me a Bible. Some other friends were with me and were also getting these whispers. One of their responses was, "What's a 'Bible'? Is it food?"

so what this breaks down to

when you drill through all the double talk... they are banning the mention that gays exist in their game? they say that they are just avoiding mention of political/religious/sexual issues, but this is an obvious lie. people get *married* in game. there are christian guilds.

and what, don't gays exist in their fantasy world? homosexuality isn't a political party that can just not happen to exist, it's a phenomena that's pervasive throughout mammalian life for whatever reason. even dogs do it. elves don't? humans in some other world don't? that's stupid.

besides, in most mythologies all or most dwarves are guys. in tolkeins world even the women looked almost identical to men. what do you think that would lead to huh? huh?

in warcraft all the night elves were women. the men were all asleep or some such shit. common, you know they were totally getting some hot lesbian elf action on.

that's all I have to say on that topic.

The real concern

It seems to me that the real concern is that they don't want a group out there publicizing its GLBT friendliness, its whether or not they are universal on their enforcement. Do they punish people who use the term 'gay' as derogatory? (ie, "Thats so gay!") Do they discourage guilds that market themselves as Christian guilds?

I don't really see any problem with their enforcement. The problem will only arise if they don't enforce these policies across the board.

-Da3vid-

Sexism and Hypocrisy at Blizzard

...meanwhile, WoW is a game which is filled with imagery that is both degrading and subjugating to women. Furthermore, the game's environment promotes derogatory comments to, and defamatory treatment of, every female player in Blizzard's customer base.

I've spoken out about these topics many times, both on Blizzard's forums (from which I've been permanently banned), and on my own website (www.tessmage.com)... and the resulting flamewars have been a clear indication of exactly which demographic Blizzard has been marketing to: rabidly homophobic teenaged boys, all of whom fantasize about half-naked women that they can openly (and rudely) try to cyber with in video games.

Blizzard... enough is enough. Your hypocrisy is showing - again.

- Tessera -

it was always about the Oil

Blizzard's behavior is susceptible to a completely money-based, completely cynical explanation.

Namely, guilds are good for Blizzard because players like them and play more and recruit friends to play too. More players for more months = more money. However, now there is a guild devoted to groups and viewpoints that are unpopular among players and potential players. Such a guild could anger bigger groups of players and potential players. If prohibiting this new guild will cause Blizzard to have more customers than not prohibiting it, they will prohibit it.

The cynical explanation neatly explains why Blizzard would allow discussion of popular viewpoints but prohibit discussion of unpopular ones. So, why should we believe that Blizzard's move is about anything but the money?

Re:Interesting

funny, I always thought the most hated group on Slashdot was Anonymous Cowards.