Banned From WoW For WINE & Programmable Keyboard

An anonymous reader writes "Player gets banned for playing World of Warcraft under WINE and using a Logitech Gaming keyboard. "I am an experienced network engineer for an ISP and I am often running World of Warcraft on Linux through the use of WINE..."" Although the e-mails exchanged are unclear my guess is that the programmable keyboard was more the problem then WINE. Not that you'd ever know that given that Blizzard communicates with their users seemingly almost exclusively with form letters.

Anonymous?

Slashdot profile [slashdot.org]

The keyboard he is using sounds quite cool though :)
I shall have to look into getting one.

Re:Anonymous?

Around Christmas I bought me and my brother both a Logitech G15. They are really nice keyboards, with a lot of versitility. G15forums.com [g15forums.com] has a lot of different ways to use the display it comes with.

Unfortunetely, for the keyboard to be effective in WoW, Blizzard is going to have to support it and program some hooks into the game for it to be supported. Even if there was a 3rd party program (or even a UI mod) that would take care of the hooks for WoW it would be against the ToS, and my account would be banned for it.

As much as I like the game, I have found blizzard themselves to be fairly nazi about what can do what and who can do it. CmdrTaco had an instance with Blizzard Nazism not too long ago. [slashdot.org]

A Mr. Godwin on the line for you

As much as I like the game, I have found blizzard themselves to be fairly nazi about what can do what and who can do it. CmdrTaco had an instance with Blizzard Nazism not too long ago. [slashdot.org]

Oh please. Lets get some perspective. Blizzard told CmdrTaco to change a name he had been using for awhile because it violated the game rules. That's it. Blizzard has yet to start rounding up and gassing Slashdot editors.

"I can't use my nickname! It's like Auschqitz in here!"

Re:A Mr. Godwin on the line for you

That's it. Blizzard has yet to start rounding up and gassing Slashdot editors.

too bad.

Re:Anonymous?

Yeah, cool, but it got him banned. He should have used one of those little, swinging, water-drinking, wooden birds with the funny hats, they're harder to detect.

Re:Anonymous?

I did not submit this anonymously myself; I submitted under my own account a week or two ago. I guess someone else resubmitted it.

And just a minor remark here to people who claim I was botting. Please, go look up some botting software.

1) They virtually all need MS .Net framework - in other words, botting software doesnt work on WINE.
2) Botting software runs around, taps mobs, kills them, loots them and repeats this process. I didnt. I did not loot, move, nor change target. Anyone with a WoW account can run to Thousand Needles, find a Windchaser creature, get a lowest level weapon and hit it indefinately, provided that you are a healing class.

Anyway, I mentioned this, but I can understand why people who quickly read would miss it.

Re:Anonymous?

I sympathize with you man. This kind of treatment is why I gave up WoW. I haven't had to go through that terrible process myself, I just sick of the way people were being treated and cancelled my account, but to see you being blind-sided like that with no warning really makes my blood boil.

One of the most obvious problems with WoW these days is that there is this massive wall of low level employees (GMs, Billing & accounts etc) who don't have either the authority or time to really look after customers properly. Add to this Blizzards obvious contempt for it's playerbase as easymeat who are pretty much addicts so can be treated like trash and you have a situation where people will frequently get reamed like this with no way to prevent it.

You will of course get accused of botting by lots of players, but lots of players also happen to be 14 year old children who love to point fingers (not to say every 14 year old is like this, but the culture of WoW has shown to me that while there are exceptions if a player sounds like a 14 year, acts like a 14 year old and talks AOL trash talk then he's caek).

In the end Blizz and it's employees can pretty much act as they want and this is the most problematic part of it for me. There is no accountability, GMs have been to behave extremely innapropriately in the past, it's impossible to defend yourself from accusations of cheating because Blizz wants to be seen to having a strong anti-cheater policy so if false positives come up then it doesn't really matter. Amoung the thousands of cheaters those innocent will go unheard.

I suggest that you give up on WoW, and find a MMO that treats it's customers with at least a little common decency. Hmph that might be tricky though.

Re:Anonymous?

I think your only legitimate statement is that Logitech claims the keyboard is useable for WoW. Other than that, using macros is a definite nono.

Botting is not defined by "botting software." Its defined by Blizzard. In Eve-online, they don't have a 'bot' ban. They ban you if you are using macros. Maybe Blizzard should upgrade their terminology to make it clearer. If you were a younger person I might accept that you had no idea you would get banned. If you never gamed before I might expect you may think a legalistic position would work. But as a network engineer, and someone that has probably gamed before you should know better. You know there is neither judge nor jury. You know legitimate users get banned all the time. Knowing that you should have known the keyboard would be an issue.

I hope they let you back in. You seem like an honest person based on how much info you told them. My mom also taught me to tell the truth. The world really doesen't care...

Re:Anonymous?

"I think your only legitimate statement is that Logitech claims the keyboard is useable for WoW. Other than that, using macros is a definite nono."

If you RTFA, he provides a (now defunct) link to a post in the EU forums, with a quote, in which blizzard had stated that using keyboard macro functions is okay.

How is Using Macro's Not Allowed?

The game itself allows you to create macros in game through the /m command and then in game you can assign a key to the macro button you just created. Maybe I'm being overly simple here, but to me that would mean that Blizzard does in fact not only allow macros but also assists the player in setting them up?

Re:How is Using Macro's Not Allowed?

In other words ... Blizzard allows macros that don't fundamentally alter the game experience. This user used outside equipment (keyboard) to set up macros that do fundamentally alter the gaming experience - allow him to run automated attacks, from what I can read here - and Blizzard banned him for it.

I don't see this as any more novel than someone getting banned for inserting a graphics driver wallhack. He's violating the spirit of the game (no automated character improvements; you must invest your own time) while trying to weasel around the letter of the rules. Blizzard is vague precisely so that they can ban smartasses like this guy!

(All that said, I think Blizzard would be better served inventing some other "punishment" for this. Like, if your character spends 20 minutes attacking a critter it shouldn't be able to kill and it looks like you are a bot, some big SLOW nasty spawns and kills you. If you weren't a bot, you could outrun the nasty... but dumbass bot users die. And maybe take an experience penalty too.)

Keyboards

I have one of those Logitec G15 keyboards, as well as a Belkin Nostromo N52 (Which I no longer use). I am very concerned that Blizzard considers them a bannable offense. Only, they apparently don't. But they do. But...

Blizzard is infamous for refusing to give details about exactly WHAT you did wrong when they ban you. As you can see in the emails. "We looked, you're guilty." "of what?" "Being banned." "For?" "Being guilty". "Of?" "Being Banned." "Well, can you review it?" "Ok. You're still guilty." "Of what??" "Of Being Banned." "For..."

They're unfortunately just asking for a lawsuit in this matter, but... I guess 6 million customers paying $15 a month makes one feel they can get away with anything.

I suggest you call their headquarters directly. They will tell you to email them instead. Refuse. Be a huge pain in the ass, and don't accept being told to go away. They *are* accountable for disabling your account. Fortunately you are in Europe where their EULA holds MUCH less weight than in the US -- they can't write away your consumer rights, so fight for them!

You were still botting

It just is a matter of degree. In your view you were not botting as you define it to a scope which your event does not qualify.

Look, if your not paying attention to the game go do something else. If it is that boring to do what you were doing then why bother? If it is for improvment within the game should you not focus your attention on it.

Unattended play, botting, macroing. Call it whatever you will.

If you want a game which will allow you to bot, supposedly only attended, then go play Asheron's Call. Turbine themselves approved of combat automation to the horror of the entire industry.

Favor

He should consider it a favor. Now he can go back to living his life.

Getting banned from recreational sites

I just got out of a pink page of death ban myself here at Slashdot. Somehow they mistook my frequent reloading of pages and multiple-thread bouncing as some sort of bot or malicious bandwidth-stealing script. It was neither.

So I sit out a couple days trying to get the techs behind [e-mail] to notice my emails. Finally, after a long negotiation with these guys and promising that I will turn off all my Firefox extensions when accessing the site, I get let back on.

And this is what I come back to. A story about someone getting banned.

Re:Getting banned from recreational sites

I suppose it's a bad sign when BadAnalogyGuy beats me to exactly the analogy I was going to make...

Re:Getting banned from recreational sites

Karma...getting...low... Need..to..get..back..over...Positive!

Fasterfox?

I've noticed that Fasterfox's default setting is to be horribly abusive about page loading. I'm far more thorough about reading through settings than most people, and I toned it down from "Turbo Charged" to "Optimized".

I'm hoping this isn't a trend, because Fasterfox really does make a HUGE pageloading difference. :(

Perhaps if I run a squid proxy on my network it would help too? There's only 3 machines here, my desktop, may laptop, and my wife's desktop.

He's better off.

It stings to get banned... but realy any MMO is a waste of time, WoW being one of the worst in my opinion.

if this is Blizzards new attitiude towards it's customers, maybe I can get all of my friends to stop playing WoW and spend some time in the real world interacting with people in person.

Mod me a troll if you want it won't change the fact that I am siclk of Fantasy MMOs.

Re:He's better off.

but there's really no such thing as an offline MMORPG is there?

Yes there is. It's called business.

Re:He's better off.

Good analogy. Business has lots of grinding, low level mobs, and elitist guilds.

Re:He's better off.

Ugh. I just had visions of the IT department getting a raid party together and heading down to payroll.

And I think all FPSs are a Wate of Time

It's called a gamesupposed to be a waste of time. If it wasn't a waste of time then it would be called "work" or "chores", because other than work, chores, eating, and sleeping, everything you do in life is a "waste of time", since it's only purpose is to entertain you.

To each his own, I don't care if you don't like MMORPGs, but you don't have to try to belittle those who do.

Not a Suprise

In any situation which one party has vastly superior authority and little chance of penalized. Don't expect them to act in a reasonable manner.

Re:Not a Suprise

In any situation which one party has vastly superior authority and little chance of penalized. Don't expect them to act in a reasonable manner.

I guess it depends upon your definition of reasonable.

In this case they actively pissed off a customer, terminating the account of a paying subscriber, because they felt that his actions were detrimental to the rest of the community. His actions had nothing to do with Linux, but rather were the result of what appeared to be automated activity (which could have been that a user saw him there stat padding for hours, complained, and then an admin trying conversing with him to find the character just mechanically repeating the same steps). Reading his account, it sounds like he configured a variety of complex activities as macros on his keyboard, and just sat there repeating them ad nauseam for hours while he did other things (fun!), doing this largely automated activity for his own gain. Given that MMMORPGs are somewhat of a zero sum affair, this means that it's at the cost of other players.

I'm actually amazed that the company acted so responsibly. It would have been easy to just backtrack and forgive and forget, but they forged ahead, making an enemy and losing a customer, to try to maintain the "rules of the land". Good for them.

I should also say that the individual in question might want to learn why "the right to silence" can be an important trait. He completely indicted himself in his emails ("so I was sitting her occasionally triggering macros while I watched TV...").

Re:Not a Suprise

I'm actually amazed that the company acted so responsibly. It would have been easy to just backtrack and forgive and forget, but they forged ahead, making an enemy and losing a customer, to try to maintain the "rules of the land". Good for them.

You have a funny definition of "responsible". If you read TFA, he went through great lengths to attempt to resolve the issue with Blizzard, keeping his emails polite at all times. He pointed out that both Logitech and Blizzard had advertised the keyboard as being good for WoW, and even offered to accept a temporary ban to make up for any accidental infractions.

Blizzard ignored all his correspondance, and went for a permanent ban, apparently in direct violation of their own terms of service. [blizzard.com]

Blizzard was WRONG, and paid no attention to a reasonable customer. I find it perfectly acceptable if he was currently considering either legal or grass roots responses to their gross negligence in the matter. If that is the best they can do for loyal customers who attempted civil resolutions, then they deserve to end up in a media circus of bad press and class action suits.

Re:Not a Suprise

So you're convinced that every person who accidentally triggers a TOS violation should be permanently banned from a service like WoW, even when:

1. The service claims in forum posts that what he's doing is okay.
2. The user offers to correct the problem, and even accept a punishment.
3. The service has a policy that is supposed to require multiple violations to obtain a ban.
4. The user has no prior history of TOS violations.
5. The user has spent considerable money on the product.

If you think that all that combines to make a "responsible decision" on the part of Blizzard, then allow me to be the first to point out that you're a heartless tyrant, and I really do hope this happens to you. Perhaps you'll see things different from the other side.

I for one, hopes he gets a good lawyer. Given that this is far from the first time I've heard these complaints, a class action suit against Blizzard may just be what's needed to shake things up.

Re:Not a Suprise

Maybe it's a fun game, but it's just a game, a service provided by Blizzard for a fee.

(Emphasis mine.)

There's the part you seem to be missing. He has paid money to be provided with a service. As of right now, he's been singled out for violations to the agreement that he didn't commit, and has been unfairly kicked out of the service he paid for. (Presumably without a refund.) Because of this, he has suffered the loss of virtual property (his characters/accounts) that he has a paid significant amount of time and money to obtain. This just isn't okay, neither in a moral sense, nor in a legal sense.

You have got to be kidding. "This company refuses to take my money anymore! I'm suing.!" I marvel at the mindset that spurred you to even imagine writing that paragraph.

I'm dead serious. The legal system is there as a recourse for resolving disputes between parties. He has pursued every avenue available to him in resolving this issue. He has been ignored and treated poorly by the other party at every step of the way. As a result, he has an honest grevience to bring against Blizzard.

While I'm not one to suggest that he sue for $10,000,000 for "emotional damages" (that's just not right), suing for restoration of his account(s), legal fees to be paid by Blizzard, and a full refund of the amount he has paid to date (to cover the harrassment he has received) is a perfectly acceptable solution. Of course, it's a lot easier to get a lawyer to handle a class action suit for him, so in that case Blizzard would be facing the equivalent of hundreds of these suits at once.

Even if he didn't take the class-action path, a judge may note several reasonable complaints occurring around the same period and decide to combine them into a single suit himself.

Firstly, we're of course hearing one side of the story.

That's about the only insightful thing you've said. Unfortunately, Blizzard refuses to talk about the issue. If they won't even talk to the customer they have a disagreement with, then that customer may have to force them to tell their side in court. Alternatively, he could start a grass-roots mailing campaign or boycott against Blizzard. These are the options he has available.

Secondly, how about some perspective: This is a game.

My perspective is just fine. A game or not, Blizzard is offering a service in exchange for money. If Blizzard then decides to turn around and unjustly harrass its customers in violation of the contract entered into, it can expect that its customers will seek to reverse the business transaction and/or force Blizzard to uphold its contractual obligations. Not only does this resolve the matter, but it sends a message to the business that the customers do not appreciate being stepped on. Otherwise, what is to prevent the company from further abusing its other customers?

Re:Not a Suprise

Blizzard ignored all his correspondance, and went for a permanent ban, apparently in direct violation of their own terms of service.

I wonder what it's like to make so much money you can give a dedicated customer a high handed heave-ho.

Re:Not a Suprise

I wonder what it's like to make so much money you can give a dedicated customer a high handed heave-ho.

You should ask Sony Online Entertainment, they're currently living with the results.

It's the keyboard, stupid.

They have stated repeatedly that programmable keyboards like the Logitech one violate the EULA for WoW. While the current iteration of hacks -- sending the keyboard the mana/HP, are benign, the possibilty exists for there to be future mods that become harmful to the game or allow for some form of hacking.

Source:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=w ow-interface-customization&t=330798&tmp=1#post3307 98 [worldofwarcraft.com]

Re:It's the keyboard, stupid. - And he was BOTTING

OMG! I wanted to get the link in, but I read through the rest of the email:

At the time of the suspension I was playing WoW on Linux. I was training my weapon skills because I recently turned to level 60. I had programmed the switching of weapons (I use Wardrobe for that) to my programmable keyboard and was fighting a low-level healing mob to upgrade all my weapon skills to 300. As you might very well know, this takes hours, and while I was training my different weapon skills by pressing the macro keys and healing myself every now and then, I watched some movies on my TV, because fighting a level 25 healing mob doesn't require much attention if you're a level 60 priest.

It's not a matter of WINE, he was fucking botting! He took his programmable keyboard and built macros for fighting mobs and then left it unattendend.

When you a grinding, if a GM suspects botting they will whisper you looking for you to respond. If you don't respond within a reasonable amount of time you get nailed for botting.

Yawn..