Xbox 360 Backup Discs Bootable 287
An anonymous reader writes "The firmware of the Xbox 360 DVD drive has been hacked, allowing users to boot backups of games on the new Microsoft console. A group of hackers on the xboxhacker.net forum managed to trick the DVD firmware into reporting a recordable disc as an original Xbox 360 disc. This means that it will not allow booting of unsigned homebrew code (like Linux), as the signature check is not bypassed. This hack will just trick the Xbox 360 into thinking you inserted an original Xbox 360 disc, so it'll only boot unedited executables. A video has been released, the hack has not been released to the public (because it will be mainly used for piracy), but all the research of the last few months is publicly viewable."
"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:5, Funny)
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:5, Funny)
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:5, Funny)
This website can now close down.
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:2, Funny)
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:2)
Coffee, meet screen.
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:3, Interesting)
Why in the world is a backup considered piracy? I have all my cds/movies on my harddrive precisely because I don't want to damage the discs and therefore have to buy the same crap again. It's the content industry that wants their products to have the advantages of both a physical medial and pure license, but without the downside of either.
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:2)
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:2, Redundant)
Fair Use is another reason, but not the topic I originally replied to.
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:2)
AFAIK, nobody has managed to backup and burn GameCube discs.
You can stream backups from your PC to your GC over a LAN.
So while it's a functional hack, it isn't nearly as... simple.
I wonder why they ignored the only schema so far that has kept the modders from ripp
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:4, Informative)
Gamecube games can be backed up and burned with very little trouble. Stick in a modchip and buy a custom case to allow the Cube to hold full-sized DVDRs and you're all set.
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:2, Informative)
Re:"we don't want to support piracy" (Score:3, Interesting)
firmware check on new games? (Score:3, Interesting)
( + reporting to MS Live if you have a hacked verison and cancelling your account? ala Blizzard?)
Re:firmware check on new games? (Score:2)
Re:firmware check on new games? (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, but Microsoft is cunning you see, they number their program lines one by one instead of 10 by 10, so you can't insert a GOTO line. And RENUM is disabled. Clever I tell you!
Re:firmware check on new games? (Score:2)
Re:firmware check on new games? (Score:2)
Re:firmware check on new games? (Score:2)
Re:firmware check on new games? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:firmware check on new games? (Score:2)
You mean like Sony can be trusted to make CDs that won't compromise people's computers? I'm glad these companies are so trustworthy because otherwise, we'd have a lot to worry about.
Re:firmware check on new games? (Score:2)
Umm, that doesn't really answer his question. [windowsitpro.com]
Re:firmware check on new games? (Score:2)
better video (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyZQ4k7Bi-8 [youtube.com]
Re:better video (Score:2)
Re:better video (Score:3, Insightful)
Ability to boot non-Microsoft code more useful (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Ability to boot non-Microsoft code more useful (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes, but if you try to trick (and it is the only way) the DRM that prevents non-original content from loading you're violating the DCMA.
Re:Ability to boot non-Microsoft code more useful (Score:2)
Re:Ability to boot non-Microsoft code more useful (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Ability to boot non-Microsoft code more useful (Score:4, Insightful)
In order to run unsigned binaries you have to crack several levels of protection, some of them embedded into the processor itself. And these are not your garden variety propriety measures hackable in an hour by sophomore CS student.
So, you still can't run XBMC (NG) on Xbox360, but you can play all the pirated games you want. Weird, isn't it?
I own original Xbox modified with DuoX modchip. Of course I have several pirated games installed on my (upgraded) HD. I would have bought some games I love (like burnout 3, 4), if it weren't for extremely stupid, suicidal policy of MS to ship Xbox with defective DVD drives that don't read DVD-R etc disks[1].
So, for me it's funny... MS is doing anything it can to make Xbox 360 unatractive to me and to prevent me from ever buying legal copies of games for either its old or new system...
Robert
PS If you want to condemn me as unwashed pirate, bugger off. I have a DVD collection bought legally, exceeding 300 DVD-s. Give me fair deal and I'll make your toilet solid gold. But if you want me to bend over for marginal gain, you must have been smoking something very strong all of your life.
[1] You see, me and my wife are compulsive sci-fi/crime series watchers. Unlike me, my wife can't really comprehend them in English, so whenever I buy dvd set I process it to add Polish translation. But -- in order to play those remastered DVDs -- I had to change the Xbox DVD drive to PC DVD drive, to read DVD-R. And PC DVD drive won't read original xboxdvd discs...
I hear you on Xbox DVD drive issues (Score:2)
What I've done instead is turn it into
Re:I hear you on Xbox DVD drive issues (Score:2)
You see, the "defectiveness" of DVD drives is just a product of MS's DRM. They deliberately decided, that Xbox DVD can't play DVD-R/+R etc. Not just DVD media ID, but really DVD recorded discs. So they ordered drives that would have their laser IC calibrated in such a way, that it would not be able to properly play home recorder DVDs. But the side effect of this is that such DVD drive quite rapidly stops reading even "legitimate" xbox dvd dis
This is step 1 of 2. (Score:2)
- The Xbox needs to boot from DVD recordable discs. (this news means that's been done)
- The encryption that checks whether or not the executable code is "signed" needs to be overcome. (yet to be done)
So, this is important. The next part is probably harder, though.
Re:This is step 1 of 2. (Score:3, Insightful)
For arbitrary code, you compute the signature for whatever you want - media flag and all.
Re:This is step 1 of 2. (Score:2)
- The Xbox needs to boot from DVD recordable discs. (this news means that's been done)
- The encryption that checks whether or not the executable code is "signed" needs to be overcome. (yet to be done)
On the Xbox the security system was broken by taking advantage of buffer overflows and similar errors in the save/load game functions and font renderers, etc. This can be done using an unmodified DVD with a correct signature.
I bet something similar will be
drm sucks (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course 'backup' for the copy you're using isn't a very good term.
Re:drm sucks (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't like DRM either, but one fallacy among opponents is the distinction between "average consumers" and "pirates". The problem is that average consumers can easily become pirates if various conditions are ripe: the original seems expensive, copying is easy, nobody is ever punished, etc. There are entire countries of "average consumers" who almost never buy original software or music.
Re:drm sucks (Score:2)
Re:drm sucks (Score:2)
The problem is that average consumers can easily become pirates if various conditions are ripe: the original seems expensive, copying is easy, nobody is ever punished, they are dirt poor, etc. There are entire countries of "average consum
Re:drm sucks (Score:2)
Problem: digital copies are equally "good" as the original.
Industry solution(drm): Make it so that today a copy is actually *superior* to the original.
What is superior ?
An original, say Bertine Zetlits-CD, that is not valid CD-audio, won't play in your car, won't play in your DVD-player, won't play in your computer, won't transfer cleanl
Re:drm sucks (Score:2)
Re:Bollocks (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Bollocks (Score:2)
Wrong. You are not downloading their backups, you are downloading a copy of the game INTENDED TO BE ILLEGALLY DISSEMINATED. Backups do not imply copyright violations. Warez and backups ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.
BS (Score:2)
Then I got drunk and stepped on it.
It stopped working, unsurprisingly.
The same (more or less) happened with SOCOM 1 (fortunately, about a day and a half before 2 came out) and Star Wars Battlefront 1.
If I had a backup, I could still play all of these games. Sooner or later, my other games will go bad.
And let's not forget all the movie DVDs; Bourne Identity, Star Wars I (well, no big loss, there), Ind
Re:BS (Score:2)
Nice timing! (Score:3, Informative)
Tut, tut, tut... (Score:4, Funny)
It is sad to see so much cynicism in the world
Surprised it took this long (Score:5, Interesting)
I always thought that was a pretty good area of attack right there.
Re:Surprised it took this long (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Surprised it took this long (Score:2)
Also, I doubt that the XBox compatability CDs are actually booted. I'd bet that the 360 checks for that type of disk the same way it checks for DVDs and launches the software from the HD, and even then I'm sure the data has to be signed.
Re:Surprised it took this long (Score:3, Informative)
Unlike the CPU, the chip that drives the DVD rom can be completely re-implemented with a relatively cheap FPGA. You can reverse engineer chips with electron microscopes, [elecdesign.com] although it is really expensive. Mod chips could still be produced even if Microsoft decided to start making their DVD-ROMs with an embedded
Impact on PS3 (Score:2)
Citations (Score:4, Interesting)
the hack has not been released to the public
From Jane Austen's "Emma":
'It's to be a secret, I conclude,' said he. These matters are always a secret, till it is found out that everybody knows them. Only let me be told when I may speak out.'"
One small step (Score:3, Interesting)
I remember hackers speaking of how easy hacking the Xbox 360 will be, that it will only take hours once it is released.
Now, 4 months after the release, they manage to hack a disc. Microsoft sure has given them a challenge this time.
Re:One small step (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:One small step (Score:2)
No true hacker ever claimed that. Plenty of clueless idiots did, though.
Re:One small step (Score:2)
Trying to eat the cake and have it too (Score:2, Insightful)
So they figure they wont release the code.
They say, hey its possible.
They say, hey this is the exact result.
They say, hey this is how we've been going abt it these past few months.
They say, sorry folks, y'know we'd love to spread the good hack around, but y'know
piracy's pira
LOL (Score:4, Interesting)
Then why did they bother? Testing XP or linux to see if its security is working is one thing. That has real world consequences. Testing it is a noble cause IMHO. Hacking the firmware of a gaming system make get done to "boot linux" but we all know the real world implication here. I don't frown on this morally one bit but let's not kid ourselves here. Information may want to be free, but people want free games even more.
Re:LOL (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:LOL (Score:2)
Implications for xbox live (Score:2, Interesting)
I suppose microsoft could detect this on live by scanning the dvd drives firmware, but the data contained on the firmware itself could easily be spoofed. The other software on the xbox has to relie on whatever the firmware itself says it has. Somebody could just ad
Re:Implications for xbox live (Score:2)
Re:Implications for xbox live (Score:2)
But i wont release it.. (Score:3, Insightful)
" i found out the secret of area 51, but since it might be used improperly , ill just not tell you the details ".. its about as valid as he story subject.
And as a disclaimer, im not a gamer.
Why did Microsoft not use nonstandard drives? (Score:2)
No big surprise (Score:3, Insightful)
It's very obvious that Microsoft cares much more about blocking Linux and Xbox Media Player than it does about piracy. They have their priorities way out of whack.
Melissa
Re:No big surprise (Score:2)
Piracy? Who cares? They don't sell many of the games!
Rather fast game console turned general purpose parralel computer for $400? Not good.
Re:No big surprise (Score:2)
I think thats what MS is really worried about. Copying DVDs is still kind of a process, and not THAT many people have DVD burners. But if you can rip any game you rent to the hard drive (as you can on the Xbox), then you open up the doors for "casual" piracy.
Hell, softmodding your Xbox is so pitifully easy that you'd be nuts to *not* do it. MS doesn't want that situat
Is it real? (Score:2)
RtFA... (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't just a "Oh, I'll put this firmware on a disk and load it up and Bam!, insta-pirate!". This is a firmware for the DVD-ROM, which you first have to A) physically open up the XBox360 B) Then remove the DVD-ROM C) then desolder the firmware chip D) then read the firmware and figure out where to edit, because each DVD-ROM has a unique ID tag E) then you have to reprogram the chip using specialized equipment F) reinstall the chip and hope you didn't ruin a $400+ machine G) get a good copy of a game and hopefully it'll work.
Currently, this is *far* harder than the average modchip. Since each chip has to be custom-programmed, this isn't an easy hack, even if you did have the hacked firmware available.
Still, hopefully this is a taste of things to come. The 360 has been only out for 4 months, and this is much better progress than with the original XBox.
Not any different than past console hacks.. (Score:2)
Either way, 360 devs are shitting themselves right about now. When this happened with the Dreamcast, developer support disappeared and went to the PS2.
I have a feeling a lot of current XBox360 pro
I'm not sure how it read to everybody else but (Score:2)
"we've given a rough idea about how we did it"
"We're not going to release the details for fear of piracy"
Guess who's waiting for a fat MS cheque for 'security consultancy' in the post over the next couple of days.
Re:Forget Piracy. Solution For Disc Scratching Mes (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Forget Piracy. Solution For Disc Scratching Mes (Score:2)
Re:Forget Piracy. Solution For Disc Scratching Mes (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Forget Piracy. Solution For Disc Scratching Mes (Score:3, Informative)
I found the d_skin protectors on sale for a pack of 30, and they have been nothing but a blessing. Anyone who is paranoid (like me) about scratching up their disks even slightly should definitely look into buying a pack.
It's a HELL of a lot cheaper to replace a scratched up d_skin protector than it is a $50 game.
Re:Forget Piracy. Solution For Disc Scratching Mes (Score:2)
Congratulations SpryWeb you're the first person to ever make my foe list.
Re:Forget Piracy. Solution For Disc Scratching Mes (Score:2)
Seriously, let's say he WAS related to d_skin somehow.. if he really was looking to market these things, why would he waste effort on a one-time slashdot post buried on a page somewhere?
Even if he WAS in it for marketing, his point's still valid. I happen to own d_skins too, and they're a damn good product that have saved my ass more than once from well-meaning idiots handling my discs. It's sad how quickly you'd add someone to a foe list based on
Re:Forget Piracy. Solution For Disc Scratching Mes (Score:2)
Re:Mainly used? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Mainly used? (Score:2)
Re:Mainly used? (Score:5, Insightful)
Neither is creating a backup copy of software you have purchased, nor is utilising that backup copy. As for the DMCA, there is an explicit exception for reverse engineering for interoperability that does not limit it to interoperability of software with other systems. It could just as easily be read to allow modification for interoperability with other software.
Re:Mainly used? (Score:2)
Re:Mainly used? (Score:2)
Re:Mainly used? (Score:2)
If anything, guns are a boon to society, as they are an equalize
Re:Morality (Score:5, Funny)
Huh? The submitter wrote, right there in the summary, "it will be mainly used for piracy". I really don't see how he could have been any blunter about it. It does not look to me like there is any attempt being made to mislead readers in any way whatsoever.
But I'm not surprised to see a response like yours. However someone phrases it, there's always someone who thinks they should have phrased it more strongly. I expect that even if the submitter had opened the article with "Filthy bloodsucking terrorist pedophile pirates have raped America's freedom once again in a savage assault on the copyright protections that keep our children safe", then someone would still have complained that he was being too sympathetic to them...
Re:Morality (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft will.... (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft will.... (Score:2)
Re:Microsoft will.... (Score:2)
I think people are used enough to product activation for this to work... the only problem I see is that it would tie a disc to a certain 360. Microsoft could provide a way to disassociate a disc with a given 360, but game rentals and used game sales would be problematic.
Microsoft could provide special time-limited activa
Re:Not releasing (Score:2)
Re:Not releasing (Score:2)
Re:hmmmmm (Score:2)
Re:netcrap confirms it (Score:2)