Controller Comparison - PlayStation 3 vs. Wii 203
ZiakII writes "Engadet has an article comparing the PS3 Controller to the Wii's Controller. From the article: 'The motion control, however, was another story entirely. Whereas the Wiimote seemed to produce different experiences in different games and scenarios, the only title being shown with motion on the PS3 produced one experience: laggy control.'"
Reason for over patenting ? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:2)
Specifically, this one [amazon.com].
I have one of these. It's fun in some games and a pain in the butt in others. I really enjoyed Motocross Madness, but car driving games, well, drove me crazy.
The Wiimote is a very different technology, but it suffers from the same fatal flaws as every other motion sensing controller (you can count the EyeToy in here too)... a)the body likes to push against something and b) the body likes small control mov
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:5, Funny)
Will you marry me?
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:5, Funny)
Now that we have that out of the way, will you marry me?
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:2)
Also keep in mind that this isn't exactly the first time that Nintendo's been ripped off -- it has a history of leading gaming trends. However, if the Wii does become the leader of a trend rather than just a unique and quirky console, we're going to get more competition, and Nintendo will be forced to come up with even more interesting and fu
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:2)
That's basically what nintendo has done non-stop for the past decade. Nintendo makes its money growing the market sideways, creating ne
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:2)
Hey, wait a sec, that's not what he said....
At any rate, even Sony and Microsoft seem to think that the Wii will do very well and operate largely independent of their battle of the (schoolyard) titans.
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:3, Funny)
Way to combat the stereotype that Slashdotters are desperate!
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:2)
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:5, Funny)
If that ever happened, I'd be hesitant to click on the photos link.
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:3, Funny)
We're quite a happy couple [wklt.com], tyvm.
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:2)
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:2)
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:2)
I don't know, I think tubgirl and goatse guy would make a beautiful couple. And the kids would, well be flexible, I suppose.
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:2)
Way to combat the stereotype that Slashdotters are desperate!
I see you don't get over to craigslist much.
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:2)
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:2)
That's probably why the Wii will have 4 ports for Gamecube controllers. Also, I can't pull a link out off the top of my head, but they're also planning on a classic-style PSX/SNES type "shell" for the remote to attach to for the purpose
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:2)
The attacks on Bailey that you link to are a huge mischaracterization of him and his book. They originate from some in the TS community who were highly offended, and not from other scientists. Actually mischaracterization is wrong. Conway and others flat out lied about him. Read his book and you'll be angry at them for the li
Sony's Controller Patent 1999 (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:3, Informative)
Source [gamespot.com]
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:2, Informative)
PS3 and Wii's controllers can detect movement along x/y/z axis.
The Logitech Gamepad Wingman Extreme and Microsoft Freestyle controllers can only detect tilt, meaning, 3 degrees of freedom. PS3 and Wii are 6 degrees of freedom. Wii however has a sensor bar to detect position as well.
Re:Duh (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Reason for over patenting ? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Is motion sensing controllers a good thing? (Score:4, Funny)
Of course, I think what's going to happen are alot of out of shaped gamers will just get tired too easily and will return to the GameCube. We know they had to remove using motion for regular attacks from Zelda because gamers got to tired.
But we also know the PS3 advance graphics will be hard to program for, and their motion sensing isn't as robust as the Wii. So from a development standpoint, developing for the PS2 makes most sense. Everyone has it already, and it's getting dirt cheap. Whoever wins the HD format war, jsut buy a stand alone player.
Re:Is motion sensing controllers a good thing? (Score:5, Funny)
At least now they'll have an excuse that doesn't scare (normal) people.
Re:Is motion sensing controllers a good thing? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Is motion sensing controllers a good thing? (Score:3, Informative)
Oh dear (Score:2)
Exactly how long do you think it will be until we find pictures off women inventing whole new games with it?
Men may be perverts but at least we don't use gaming hardware in ways it was never intended. Then again have looking at the PS3 controller... what exactly are those rounded pointy bits supposed to be for?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Is motion sensing controllers a good thing? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Is motion sensing controllers a good thing? (Score:2)
Re:Is motion sensing controllers a good thing? (Score:5, Funny)
"That arm's stronger because I play with my Wii a lot"
Oh yeah, problem solved.
Re:Is motion sensing controllers a good thing? (Score:2)
Sony Does Not Innovate (Score:5, Funny)
Thanks for the great design, Sony.
Re:Sony Does Not Innovate (Score:2)
Perfect opportunity for 3rd party controller designers. PS2 has some innovative add-ons like the Eye-toy and the Guitar Hero controller.
Re:Sony Does Not Innovate (Score:3)
which will never get used except the games that force you to buy their extra peripherals
and every other game will use the same exact controller as the PS2.
hope you like sequels!
Re:Sony Does Not Innovate (Score:2)
Yet, still, I'd say there is a lot more leading innovation, both of the revolutionary new game style and the evolutionary increasing depth in existing styles, in PC games than on consoles.
Making a new controller may enable certain kinds of innovation, or at least novelty, in game play, but isn't necessary to or all that closely related to novelty or innovation in game design. Though its a way to get novelty in game experience without advancing the design of t
but... (Score:2)
Re:Sony Does Not Innovate (Score:2)
Re:Sony Does Not Innovate (Score:2)
For the simple reason that the original PS controller wasn't built to accomodate the games being played today. I loved San Andreas, but I would have been far less frustrated with it if I had waited for the PC version.
Re:Sony Does Not Innovate (Score:2)
Re:Sony Does Not Innovate (Score:2)
Sony for sticking with a design that isn't comfortable for users playing popular games.
Re:Sony Does Not Innovate (Score:2)
Re:Sony Does Not Innovate (Score:2)
Re:Sony Does Not Innovate (Score:2)
I've yet to hold it in my hand, of course, but I wonder if it feels the same.
Re:Sony Does Not Innovate (Score:2)
Re:Sony Does Not Innovate (Score:2)
Re:Sony Does Not Innovate (Score:2)
Anyone who thinks Sony didn't copy the Wii? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Anyone who thinks Sony didn't copy the Wii? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Anyone who thinks Sony didn't copy the Wii? (Score:2)
Re:Anyone who thinks Sony didn't copy the Wii? (Score:2)
Either the controller felt laggy because the controller sucks or because WarHawk only had a few weeks to work on it... It makes no sense to say that *both* are true.
IMO, you're right. Sony got the controller working very late, and WarHawk only had a few weeks to work on it... and despite that many reviews have said that the controller felt quite natural. Of course, in the end it's a matter of taste.
Re:Anyone who thinks Sony didn't copy the Wii? (Score:2)
The controller could suck with regards to that game because it was short on time to make the game.
The controller could suck regardless of how much time was put into the game.
The controller could not suck even if they were short on time to make the game.
The controller could not suck regardless of time put into the game.
I don't get how it has to be either a software or hardware problem, but not both. There's
Re:Anyone who thinks Sony didn't copy the Wii? (Score:2, Interesting)
It doesn't matter who's "copying" who -- do you use Internet explorer? OMG it so COPIED netscape. Get over it.
From everything I've seen (and in fact it was mentioned in TFA) the Sony controller did not wor
Re:Anyone who thinks Sony didn't copy the Wii? (Score:2, Insightful)
That's probably because that's all the Dual Shock is -- an SNES controller with an extra shoulder button, and two analog sticks (+ rumble).
Remember from where the PS1 came -- a failed collaboration with Nintendo for an SNES CD-ROM unit.
Re:Anyone who thinks Sony didn't copy the Wii? (Score:2)
Actually, it does matter. Nintendo went full force with the Rev design and applied the methodology towards game making. Sony saw a feature and plugged it in. The difference? There's a reason Nintendo went with the sensor bar. There's a reason Nintendo has a remote and the nunchuck. There's a reason there's a speaker in the remote. They all have to do with game play. Sony band-aided a featu
Poor analog stick placement (Score:5, Interesting)
Every PS fanboy states that the dual-shock is the best controller out there, but when it comes to analog stick placement, it's only because it's what they're used to. Crook your thumbs into the shape necessary to work with the dualshock sticks. Then move them around a little. You'll feel a little fatigue (maybe not much, if you've played a lot with the controller). Then move your thumbs up a little, into the place where the gamecube and xbox controllers have the analog sticks. Move them around again. You'll likely feel less fatigue. That's because your thumbs are in a more relaxed place there, not having to exert any effort to hold it.
It's no surprise that 2 different companies placed the sticks higher up than the dualshock after 2 completely separate bouts of ergonomic research. The thumbs in the dualshock position are already flexing to keep that position. Your most natural position to rest your thumb is on your index finger. If you rest your thumbs on your ring finger, you'll feel the muscles pull because they need to to reach that non-natural state. It's the same state they're in when using the dualshock. You have to exert energy just to keep them at a rest state with those sticks.
The worst part of the design is that it's an example of lazy, "that's the way it's supposed to be" design. It's like the classic story (in software development circles) of the woman who always cut the ends off of a roast before cooking it. When her husband asked why, she said, "that's the way my mom did it; that's the way you're supposed to do it." Later, she asked her mom why she cut the ends off, and her mom told her "because my pan was too small to hold the whole roast." That's the same thing with the design of the dualshock. Those sticks aren't there because of exhaustive ergonomic studies. They're there because they're an afterthought. They were added to the original PS1 controller well after the system's original release, and they were put in the only place they fit. No one wanted to change the rest of the controller around (which is, by the way, a fine controller if you don't use the analog sticks). After they caught on, no one wanted to go back and move them around, because controllers are such an iconic part of console branding.
So that's why I'm disappointed. They had a chance to fix a bad design. It was even more important that they do so today, since most games nowadays use the analog sticks instead of the d-pad. But they didn't, and that's just sad. So now the more frequently used controls are in a harder to reach place, but hey, you can hit that d-pad to change weapons or select from a menu just fine. Oh, and now you can tilt the thing, too....
Re:Poor analog stick placement (Score:5, Insightful)
There are things about the PS2 controller that I like, it is fairly comfortable, but I agree with everything you've said. Only I want to add a couple of complaints:
1.) The L3 and R3 buttons. Oh, thanks a lot for that. I understand where they're coming from on them. It's great that you can just press 'down' and get another click there. On paper, this sounds great. San Andreas, for example, used this to honk the horn. Very intuitive. Except... I didn't know about it at first! My first clue to it came from making extreme turns in the game. Every time I whipped around the corner, HOOOOOOONNNNNNNKKKKKKKKKKK. WTF? Worse, the game would give me clues to it. "Press the R3 button.." I looked all over the damn controller, couldn't find anything labeled R3. Eventually I figured it out. But.. yeesh. It took me a long time to get to where I could use the controller without accidently hitting that button. Even then, I'm not perfect at it. In my humble opinion, it's not good UI design when you tie features to buttons that could be hit easily. At least in San Andreas's case, it wasn't a big deal.
2.) This isn't really the fault of the Dual Shock controller, but Sony's choice in particular. Why on Earth did they think it was a good idea to use heiroglyphics for the symbols of the buttons? Nintendo (and every other console company out there...) had the right idea. A, B, X, Y, L, R. Easy enough to commit to memory. Sony, argh. Normally, this isn't a big issue. Typically with Playstation games, the buttons are fairly intuitively laid out. San Andreas, though, used these shapes to play a DDR'esque game. They'd show you the symbols you need to hit, and you've got to press the correct button at the right time to get the score. This means you have to memorize the button for each symbol. This is attainable, but thoroughly unnecessary. If this were on the Game Cube, this wouldn't have been a problem.
Yeesh. Sad thing is, they have a legacy to follow. They're not going to address either of my complaints, now. Thanks to backwards compatibility, the symbols are here to stay, and they cannot remove the 3 buttons. I can imagine my complaints wouldn't ever be Sony's #1 concern, but I still find it pretty pathetic. I cannot believe they didn't address the whole "analog sticks suck for FPS games" problem. A built in 'light zapper' sensor on the controller would have been better than nothing, cheap too. I'm honestly shocked that niether MS nor Sony tried this. I think Phil Harrison and Peter Moore should be locked in a room and forced to play a version of San Andreas without the auto-targetting feature.
Re:Poor analog stick placement (Score:2)
As for the symbols, they're a pretty key part of t
Re:Poor analog stick placement (Score:2)
Mostly, I think it was a marketing gimmick to differentiate themselve
Re:Poor analog stick placement (Score:2)
I have the opposite problem. I can never remember which GameCube button is X, which is Y, and which is Z.
On the PS2, on the other hand, three of the shapes relate naturally to the
Re:Poor analog stick placement (Score:2)
Can't say I've ever had a problem with that. X is on the left side, Y is on the right side, Z is on the under side. (I do, however, confuse Z for R sometimes. That point I'll concede.) The extra bonus with the X and the Y is that they have the distinctive kidney bean shape.
"The square is to the left near the square-shaped center of the controller; the circle is to the right near the rounded outer e
Re:Poor analog stick placement (Score:2)
For most games you don't need to know the label of the button, since the buttons have distinctive shapes (which also give very good hints at their position) and colors and games use those shapes and colors often in documentation, both in-game and in the manual.
PS2 on the other side has just shapes, which except the triangle don't give much hint on their position. The situation with the PS2 however ge
Disagree about the symbols (Score:2)
Re:Poor analog stick placement (Score:2)
I hate the heiroglyphs too.. but there actually is a logic behind them.
They're actually numbered 1-4.
Circle = 1 Line
X = Two Lines
Triangle = Three Lines
Square = Four Lines.
Retarded I know.
Re:Poor analog stick placement (Score:2)
Re:Poor analog stick placement (Score:3, Insightful)
You seem to be forgetting about the fact that during the PS2's lifetime an increaing number of titles depended on the symmetical positioning of the sticks, Katamari Damachi co
Re:Poor analog stick placement (Score:2)
I first got a DualShock, the one with the analouge sticks, way back when it came out in a dual pack with MediEvil, one of the first dual shock games. MediEvil was designed to promote use of the sticks, both of them, and I ended up using them both a lot. It was the first game to show the power of two analouge s
Re:Poor analog stick placement (Score:2)
problem is that there's only one way to hold the controller that lets
you use the trigger buttons and the analog stick at the same time (I
suppose this might depend on hand size).
At least with the PS2 controller, I can adjust my grip on the controller
without having problems using the buttons. This lets me play all night
without any hand fatigue. I start getting tired with the 360 controller
in less than an hour.
Re:Poor analog stick placement (Score:2)
You will be sad to hear... (Score:2)
It will be great for the vintage games with the d-pad in the comfy spot, but they've sure made it ugly for the 3D platformers we're used to.
Re:Poor analog stick placement (Score:2)
Ergonomics (Score:5, Insightful)
The Wii's control scheme has a significant advantage over that of its rivals' with regard to ergonomics. Holding the Wii-mote and the nunchaku device in the opposing hand (doesn't seem to make a difference if you're a righty or a lefty, either) at an adequate distance can reduce the strain on the wrists, elbows, and shoulders of the player's arms, allowing for a much more relaxed, more natural positioning of limbs. The human hands weren't meant to be held so close together for extended periods of time, which is why gaming with a keyboard and mouse has always been more comfortable (though not completely) than gaming with just the keyboard or with a controller.
And I'm guessing many of the functions with the Wii-mote and the nunchaku won't have to be motion-centric per se, at least not on the level of play that is shown in demonstrations--I think this is more of a basic human reaction amidst adaptation to the control scheme. i.e. The brain thinks, "Hey, I'm moving!" and the body gradually reacts more naturally to the movement on the screen and its interface through the controller. For many veterans (and some newcomers), I'm sure great sweeping movements in repetition won't be necessary, which would further reinforce its ergonomic benefits.
Katamari (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Wiimote for web browsing - 3D Web coming??? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wiimote for web browsing - 3D Web coming??? (Score:2)
What may make the difference though with regards to web browsing on a Wii,
Re:Wiimote for web browsing - 3D Web coming??? (Score:2, Interesting)
So not all that much hacking left to do...
Opera for Wii (Score:2)
Re:Wiimote for web browsing - 3D Web coming??? (Score:2)
And for a good number of people, try doing it on a standard NTSC or PAL television that doesn't even go that high. But now that leads to something interesting...
In the good-ol-days, it used to be a simple arguement of having to support a small range of resolutions when doing site design, most notably 640x480, 800x600, and 1024x768. These days 6x4 has pretty much been kicked to the curb and we're starting to see many more people with monitors capable of resolutions greater
Re:Wiimote for web browsing - 3D Web coming??? (Score:2)
Any NSTC television set should be capable of displaying ~480 visible scanlines; it's provided for in the standards. And it only takes a clock speed of a few MHz for a computer to push out 640 pixels per scanline.
So, to sum up, let's say you're designing a high profile gaming site that wants as much exposure as possible. You'll need to support:
* Resolutions: Quarter VGA (cellphones), 6x4, 8x6, 10x7, 12x10
I didn't notice any lag (Score:5, Insightful)
First off, I really like the PS2/Dual-Analog style controller, so that wasn't going to be a problem for me. I don't like the non-symmetrical layout of the Gamecube and I hated the first-party XBox controllers. The 360 controller is perhaps the best, with the 'bumpers' instead of the white/black buttons that are in different places on different controllers, and the triggers that actually allow for varying degrees of input (which is hard to get with Sony's buttons).
My friends and I were all excited to swordfight with the Wii controller. Problem was, it didn't actually let you control the sword in 3D space, it only let you determine when to swing. Not to say that the controller couldn't do it right, but it hasn't yet. Also, I really didn't like using the Wii controller for the FPS sections of the game, although I was told that Metroid worked much better.
The Wii controller was very sensitive and responsive, but the games just weren't using it to its potential yet. I'm hoping that if they're just afraid 'real' 3D control is too complicated, they'll have some 'advanced'/'arcade' options in there like you often see on console flight simulators. The best game I played in Nintendo's booth was the driving game, which could have been done just as well on PS3, and would have looked better. (Note that they said that 'something came up' and kicked everyone out of the booth before I got to try Zelda, Mario, or Metroid -- probably Paris Hilton showed up or something...)
Meanwhile, after seeing what appeared to be a laggy demo at the press conference, I was pleasantly surprised by how well Warhawk worked. I'm sorry, but anyone who says it's laggy was probably wearing their Nintendo-colored glasses. I found it very easy and natural to pilot my Warhawk, which is very promising given that they had apparently only added this control mode a few weeks before E3! Meanwhile, Nintendo's betting the whole farm on this gimmick, and they still don't have it down.
As a side note, we put in the original Warhawk when we got back, and we were amazed at how craptacular it looked. It must have been displaying like 100 polygons on screen! And at the time we thought it was awesome -- though even then we weren't fooled by the fmv...
Accelerometers AND Gyroscopes (Score:2, Interesting)
That is to say, it can sense translation in the x/y/z dimensions (3 translational axes) and it can sense rotation as roll/pitch/yaw (3 rotational axes).
Using purely accelerometers, it would be impossible to accurately detect the rotational axes. The gravity vector would be necessary to determine the rotation of the device. You can break any algorithm relying on an accelerometer to detect the gravity vector by subjecting the controller to translational accelerati
Re:Accelerometers AND Gyroscopes (Score:2)
No it doesn't. That's more Sony marketing bullshit.
The accelerometer portion has 2 axises.. up/down and left/right
then they count the two analog sticks (2 axises each)!
6 degrees of freedom... but 2/3 of those axises are the analog sticks.
Tilt sensitivity is not motion sensitivity! (Score:4, Informative)
The Wii has a conventional controller. (Score:2)
And what's interesting is how closely that control pad mirrors the layout of the Playstation controller, except that it seems to be a bit more compact and certainly faithful to the look of the Wii.
One thing I've noticed about the wand is how it seems to be a bit small and some of those buttons are placed so far back on the handle that they certainl
Re:sony did NOT rip off nintendo... (Score:2)
egads! but who had the time machine - Sony, Nintendo, or ATARI?
(Whats next, Sony starting a centralized online playstation network, but they are not taking ideas from Xbox Live, they're ripping off SegaNet.)
Re:sony did NOT rip off nintendo... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:sony did NOT rip off nintendo... (Score:4, Interesting)
I would sincerely doubt that Nintendo was thinking about some obscure antique made by Atari when the designed the Wii controller.
There is no doubt in my mind that Sony was thinking about the Wii controller when they hacked motion sensors into the PS3's controller, though.
Definitely a rip-off there.
Re:sony did NOT rip off nintendo... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sony threw some components from a generic gyroscopic mouse in an old controller. That's not ripping off nintendo's genuinely innovative design. Comparing the MS, logitech, atari, or sony controllers to the nintendo one is pure idiocy - they have nowhere near the functionality of the Wii.
The real issue, of course, is Sony attempting to steal Nintendo's thunder, not their idea. So far all it's done is make them look like jackasses.
Re:sony did NOT rip off nintendo... (Score:2)
The differences lie in the fact that Nintendo did much more than conventional motion sensing (as in tilt sensing like previous Nintendo ef
Re:sony did NOT rip off nintendo... (Score:2)
Re:sony did NOT rip off nintendo... (Score:2)
The Le Stick just had mercury filled sensors which activated when you tilted it. It wasn't comfortable for extended use because you had to hold the stick straight in order for it to work properly.
Re:sony did NOT rip off nintendo... (Score:2)
Re:sony did NOT rip off nintendo... (Score:3, Insightful)
Aw, come one! (Score:2)
Nobody is claiming that Nintendo invented motion sensing controllers. But Sony clearly got the idea to introduce it into their console controllers at this time from Nintendo. If anyone claims it's just a coincidence, he's nothing but a Sony fanboy.