Sony Pushes Back Release For Blu-Ray Players

Sony has announced that their first model of Blu-Ray player will release in August, not later this month as originally announced. The BDP-SP1, retailing for $1000, will now ship on or about August 15th. Bad news for fans of the new format, and even worse news for the PS3. Since Sony's lackluster E3 showing, a string of bad news has seemed to conspire against the company's next-gen console. From the Gamers with Jobs article: "With the PS3's high-end model coming it at a whopping $400.00 less than a stand-alone Blu-Ray player, Sony needs to release these players as soon as possible. If they wait too long, the PS3 will begin looming on the horizon, causing even devout early adopters to question the intelligence of buying a stand-alone Blu-Ray unit. Sony also needs the largest possible installed base, come launch-time for the PS3. For the Blu-Ray player to be the PS3's version of the PS2's DVD player, casual technophiles need to be able to see the virtues of the Blu-Ray format. If there are few players, and few titles, this might not happen."

Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though?

If they wait too long, the PS3 will begin looming on the horizon, causing even devout early adopters to question the intelligence of buying a stand-alone Blu-Ray unit.

Assuming the PS3 blu-ray player actually works [wikipedia.org], then it will be an issue for Sony to consider.

My friend bought a first generation DVD player and it's still functioning to this day. I think it even has some of the codecs built into it (MP3, AVIs, etc.). His PS2's DVD functionality went out long ago. And that was after he participated in the first recall [megagames.com].

Buy a game console for its games. Buy a media player for its media playing abilities. Let's stop encouraging the console makers to bloat their consoles. Concentrate on one thing and--for the love of the game--get it right!

Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though?

Movies and gaming have a deserved mutual understanding -- as time goes on, they both need more space. This is why console makers keep going into the markets of the next gen video media. Take DVD's for example -- Sony and Microsoft didn't choose DVD's over CD's because they wanted to be able to market to consumers that wanted to watch movies -- they needed more space (I know of a few PS2 games that take up multiple DVD's, I don't even want to think about how many CD's that would take). True, they COULD develop their own proprietary format, losing countless amounts of dollars in R&D and ending up with something that is pretty much a DVD anyway (except not). Your competitors would just eat the licensing fees and go with DVD -- they would be able to market to the consumer "hey, we play those DVD movies in addition to having games that fit on one disk (usually)". Blu-ray promises the ability to cope with the ever-increasing capacity requirements of modern games (although I think it'll be a while before a game actually needs that much space).
Take Nintendo for example -- they went with their own proprietary mini-disc format... and look where it got them: the bottom of the console market. I think the PS3 would be much more attractive if they went with a DVD drive, like the Xbox 360... but I'm sure eventually the BR capacity will be used (pr0n?).

Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though?

You're right!

Except for Laserdisc.
and VCD.
and digital tape.

But other than that, you're absolutely right!

Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though?

Concentrate on one thing and--for the love of the game--get it right!

I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but I have to disagree. I love my PSP. I can surf the web for downloads, watching movies (UMD and ripped DVD's), listening to streaming audio, listening to my MP3's at work, and even playing a game occasionally. It's the only portable device I own other than my cell phone and I think it works great. It satisfies my needs perfectly. The wireless gaming is especially addictive, and I'm really getting hooked by Force Commander's play-by-email because I can keep the game going while satisfying my wife's nagging requests. As for media centers, I realize the niceness of a receiver to organize your devices, but I really yearn to take all of my machines and consolidate them into one. Do I really need 6 boxes sitting next to my television? Cable, DVR, DVD, VCR, Xbox/PS3/Wii/whatever, and then the receiver, plus speakers and the television? How large does my media cabinet have to be?

Re:Will PS3's Blu-ray Even Work Though?

It would bring a new meaning to head shot.

sniff sniff

I love the smell of a corporate implosion in the morning.

Can Sony survive this easily?

With the XBox 360 out and doing well and Nintendo realeasing soon with a great prices... will Sony recover from this? I just don't see any excitement around the next Playstation... all I hear is bad news.

http://religiousfreaks.com/ [religiousfreaks.com]

Re:Can Sony survive this easily?

Sony shouldn't have any problem recovering from a delay. The XBox 360 has already been out for 6 months, and by the time the PS3 comes out, the XBox 360 will have been out for at least a year. The buzz around the XBox system itself will have fizzled out, as the "new" novelty of the system will be gone. Nintendo has long been 3rd in the console rankings, and that probably won't change here. It has gotten a lot of buzz coming out of E3, and critics seem to love the system. It will come out around the same time as the Playstation 3, so Sony won't be hurt too bad from that standpoint. More importantly though, the name "Playstation" carries more weight than arguably any other system out there. Game consoles are not necessarily for the tech-minded. As cool as the Wii seems right now, little kids do not care about the blu-ray vs. HD debate, or how fun it would be to use a remote control to play games. These kids, the ones that drive the console industry, will be the ones who determine which console takes off. And they have the name "Playstation" engraved in their heads. It has long been at the top of the class, and reputation alone should be able to get it through these rough patches.

Re:Can Sony survive this easily?

Nintendo isn't thrid anywhere but the US. Its second everywhere else, with a higher profit than MS or Sony.

You put way too much value in the PS name. Nintendo made the same mistake with the N64, and look what happened. THe big dog can lose. Meanwhile, SOny is now putting out a $600 console. You're right- kids are one of the drivers for games. No parent is going to pay $600 for a gaming console. Even the 360 at $400 is high priced. At 1/3 the cost of the PS3, the Wii is going to wipe the floor with Sony.

Why Do We Want To Get Rid of Sony?

Why does anyone want Sony dstroyed? We are going to get some awesome titles out in the next two years simply because many ISVs consider the market in the air which applies pressure to Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo to perform and hunt for the best projects to sponsor. I enjoy the fact that Sony is pushing the technology envelope. Whether or not they are going about it the right way or could have picked a better set of features is a question for historians a couple of years from now. It might all be that Sony was a mere half a year off on their timing to push this stuff but I don't think anyone should stop them from trying.

The writing was on the wall: No matter how 'elite' the PS3 is they were going to lose market position because the competition is strong this time around instead of the limp wristed toss outs Nintendo and Microsoft threw last time. The only thing Sony could do is try to lead which means going out on the limb. They are way out on a thin branch where it might pay off or it might come crashing down.

As many who are going "ha ha!" at Sony's seemingly consistent knack for steping on all of the landmines, no one should relish a gaming world where Microsoft and Sony switch places. Do many of you think Microsoft will treat you better than Sony did if they dominate the space? I guarentee if Microsoft runs away with the market and crushes Sony we'll be back to same quite pace we've seen in the last few years. No thanks...I'll gladly take the three way race.

Re:Why Do We Want To Get Rid of Sony?

Its not a question of wanting Sony dead, its more an issue of watching Sony kill itself. The PS3 could be the greatest console ever, and it still is not a prudent business move. No one really wants to fork over $600 for a console, especially when the compitition offers more than adequate alternatives for half the price or less.

And my major beef is that the "pushing the technology envelope" syndrome is idiotic. There is no need for Blu-Ray, except to force a fake tech trend, and make all of us go by new hardware for massive cash. I know people who have just finally upgraded to DVD, and why ever would they want to spend more on something that is pretty much a DVD?

Also, it seems that the PS3 is pretty much nothing but paperware right now, I wouldn't be suprised if they released a C-64 in a pretty case instead of whatever they are promising today (as opposed to yesterday).

Unlike the last console release war, Sony has no buzz. Last time they were the winner before all 3 were released even, now I think they might be taking the (underestimated) Gamecube's place in the market. Not that I really care that much, I'm just going to buy a Revoltion (or the *shudder* Wii), since buying Nintendo at least guarantees fun and innovative games with little hastle.

Re:Why Do We Want To Get Rid of Sony?

> Why does anyone want Sony destroyed?

I don't want them destroyed. I want them humbled. I want them to learn their BetaMax/ATRAC/UMD lesson for good. I want this arrogant zaibatsu to know it's mortal.

I own a PS2, I like the PS2, but after the conduct of Sony these past couple years, with their new price tags adding even more insult, they've lost me as a customer. Not my devotion or fandom or loyalty -- no one has that, it's just consumer electronics after all -- but just me as a customer. Sony has become synonymous with screwing their own customers, and I don't feel like bending over for the PS3.

Naturally

Am I the only one who thinks that the era of Sony's console dominance (they 0wned everyone with the PS1 & PS2) is finally coming to an end because of their insistance on packaging Blu Ray with the PS3?

Who cares?

I won't be buying anymore Sony junk, period. I don't care if it is late or not.

Re:Who cares?

Have you been living under a rock?

http://fuckbluray.com/ [fuckbluray.com]
http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/Sony-BMG/ [eff.org]
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,114850,0 0.asp [pcworld.com]

I stopped buying Sony's crap after discovering that a normal memory stick (which was a STUPID, unnecessary format to begin with) wasn't good enough for my sony mp3 player, I needed a more expensive, DRM encumbered 'magic gate' stick. I also had no choice but to use Sony's buggy software to put music on the darn thing.

This isn't FUD, Sony just keeps shafting and screwing customers when it comes to the content market. They've been doing it for years, and will continue to do so.

The Blu-Ray curse

Addition by subtraction. A dual-layer DVD drive can hold near 10 gigs - more than enough for 1080i/1080p games. PC games have been at this resolution for years - most still fit on 3 CD's or less.

Do the right thing Sony. If you want the PS3 to thrive, cut the price in half and let the lower-end model use Dual-Layer discs.

Gamers don't care about blu-ray, home theater enthusiasts will buy a professional player. Ditch it. No way I'm buying a PS3 for the price of a 360, a Wii, and games.

Not the only manufacturer of Blu-Ray players

Though Sony's stand-alone is being delayed until August, Samsung has a standalone Blu-Ray player coming out on June 25th.

Panasonic has one coming in September. Sony's lateness is not the sole barometer for the standard's success or failure.

3rd Party Hardware?

Any news on how the PS3 is affecting 3rd party hardware manufacturers for Blu-ray? I can't imagine they'd appreciate the PS3 undercutting them by $400. However, it does raise the question of what features they will be implementing to make their hardware worth that extra money. For my dollar, they better be implementing something absolutely incredible.

How is that bad for the PS3?

So how is the delay of a Blu-Ray player bad for the PS3? It seems to me that the only effect would be to actually help the pS3 by having external Blu-Ray players still very expensive when they launch the PS3.

Now if Blu-Ray drives themselves cause the PS3 delivery date to be pushed back, that would actually be a problem. When we see that news the headlined may apply. Until then, this is just more sensationalist FUD about Sony who has become Zonk's favorite whipping boy.

Re:How is that bad for the PS3?

I think the argument is that, if this player is going to be $1000 at launch, and it's launch date is pushed out even closer to the PS3 launch, early adopters might just forgo the stand alone player and buy a PS3 instead. This pushes new sales of BR players out, further delaying the establishment of the format, while damaging Sony's bottom line, since, unlike the standalone player, the PS3 is almost certainly going to be a loss-leader. Further, this will stick Sony with lame-duck product, which I can't imagine is a good thing.

High price and delays part of strategy?

"If they wait too long, the PS3 will begin looming on the horizon, causing even devout early adopters to question the intelligence of buying a stand-alone Blu-Ray unit."

Couldn't that be Sony's strategy? They know all the bad press the PS3 has been getting so all they have to do is make it more attractive as a Blu-Ray player than the stand-alones. This kills 2 birds with 1 stone; it get's people buying the PS3 for games and for the Blu-ray capabilities. Either way, they win.

Re:High price and delays part of strategy?

This kills 2 birds with 1 stone; it get's people buying the PS3 for games and for the Blu-ray capabilities. Either way, they win.

People buying the PS3 for games see a $500-600 system that's the most expensive "new console" out there. By a lot. Heck, there'll still be PS2 systems sitting on shelves this Christmas, and so now they've got to compare a $129 (if it doesn't drop to $99) system to a $500-600 system? Yah. So it's fair to say that the only section of this market they'll get are the ones that have loads of money to throw away, or Sony fanboys. By any measure, that's a niche portion of the market.

People buying the system for Blu-ray capabilities are going to start off as a small market anyway, as it's a $500-600 movie player. But at that point, you're getting someone who wants a top-end home theatre system, and is willing to throw money at it. Now there'll be $1000 standalone players, and a $500-600 PS3. Does Sony really think that those kind of people are going to be swayed by the "ooh, it's $400 cheaper" argument? Of course not - they spent $1500 on an HDTV with marginal amounts of programming available for it. They'll go after the $1000 Blu-ray player, which will be advertised as a "better player" than the PS3. Hint for any Circuit City employees, it's easy enough to just reference the PS2's disc read error issues as well as the poor quality of the DVD output and the compatibility issues it had with certain DVDs, and you'll get people looking at the Blu-ray player instead. So here, again, they're targeting a niche portion of a small market.

I think describing the PS3 as a "cheap" Blu-ray player is the easiest way to keep videophiles from buying them. They'd be better off with standalone Blu-ray players being $500-600. At $400 less, now they just look like there's something wrong with them.

Sony is EVIL

Sony is EVIL, because of it's terminally stupid moronic croporate culture.

What comes around, well, comes around.

Marketing?

Is it just me, or could this be a plausible marketing ploy? Sony wants the biggest install base of the PS3 as possible to make some money, and have better market penetration than the 360 or Wii. What if they're releasing a high priced player closer to the window of the launch of the PS3 on purpose? If you had your choice between a box that did Blu Ray for $1000, or a box that did Blu Ray + lots of other stuff, for $600, a lot of non-elitist consumers are going to go with the cheaper bargain. It's entirely possible that sony is releasing an over priced blu ray player now (btw, $1000? I can get a HD-DVD drive for under $200!), to increase adoption of the ps3 by the "I love HD, but my pocket book hates it" crowd.

Whatever, Zonk

Of course, as even the linked article admits, Samsung's blu-ray player [bestbuy.com] is still due out at the end of this month, at the same time the first round of blu-ray discs are.

Since unlike UMDs and other failed "Sony" formats of the past, Blu-Ray is not propreitary, it doesn't matter when Sony gets their player out. The Blu-Ray does not succeed or fall based on Sony alone; Sony delaying their personal player for six months makes no difference. While surely having two blu-ray players out at format launch would have been better than one from a consumer perspective, Sony's delay means effectively nothing except that early adopters interested in blu-ray will be buying a Samsung instead.

But hey, Zonk's never let little things like facts get in the way of his constant proclamations of doom and death for Sony and everything connected to them. So whatever. Rootkit rootkit rootkit $599 lol.

When will Sony learn

That the key to dominating is "excellence in conformity?" The key to beating your competition is to build up a standard, then trash your competition at implementing it. Who wants to be limited to all Sony? No one who wants to do something as "lame" as borrowing a next gen DVD from a friend.

Only slightly infammatory

I am sick of Sony trying to control the format of . They keep trying to use their sheer bulk to force us to use their latest tech (see their music player history for an example). I know Sony is capable of producing a quality product that I would love to use, but they just keep shooting themselves in the foot (UMD anyone?). Now they want to try to shove a heavily DRM'd format down our throats and make us like it (and they dont even seem to be able to put out a proper product). I wish consumers would wake up and grow some self control (I have to admit to being the first in line occasionally). If you stop buying products that contain objectionable components (whatever your hot button issue is DRM, porn, violence) then the companies will stop making it. Consumers need to stop "compromising" with companies. Give us a product that we want 100%.

"A luxury once experienced becomes a necessity".

Let's get it over with

Sony has a hitsory of making up non-standard proprietary formats. These
include the (a) memory stick, (b) the customized (non-standard) firewire port,
(c) the universal
operating system of the AIBO, (d) the minidisc and, of course, (e) betamax. No doubt, there are other I can't think of or don't know about.

In almost every case, they are either failures or (worse) sources of ongoing frustration.
I thought Blu-ray had promise, but not I realize it is another one of these monstrosities. Maybe it had better just die as quickly as possible to spare us being burdeneed with it for ages.

(like the memory stick -- an extra format we never needed).

Do people really want a new format?

I think Sony's biggest problem with getting widespread adoption of Blu-Ray is that the vast majority of users are happy with the current DVD format. The improvement from VHS to DVD was obvious. Replacing your DVD collection with an expensive Blu-Ray collection that may never catch on with most people seems ludicrous. People might find Blu-Ray equipment in the closet with their Betamax VCRs and their old minidisc players.

Is schadenfreude OK?

I was offended by Sony's horrible DRM/rootkit situation, not because they tried to install rootkits (although that was bad enough) but because of their response when caught: "So what? Consumers won't even comprehend your techno-babble complaints."

I was offended by Sony's horrible pricing for the PS3, not because the pricing was so high (although that was bad enough) but because of their response when people took issue: "So what? Sony fanboys are going to pay no matter what the price."

I was offended by Sony's blatant plagarism of the Wii controller, not because of the 2nd-rate implementation (although... you get the idea), but because of their flat-out lying about it: "We didn't copy Nintendo. We're the real innovators."

All of these situations have a common thread: arrogance. A cavalier disrespect for the customer. A lack of ethics. There are no laws that say companies must be ethical, or must respect the customer. So I guess we can write off Sony's behavior as "it's just business." But there are also no laws which say I have to buy into it. So I hope that what goes around, comes around.

-Tony

Mid-2007 maybe???

I think anyone thinking that Sony will launch the already ill-fated PS3 this year is smoking the same stuff as Sony.

Blu-ray - nobody cares.

How long is it going to take people who write articles to get it?

What's happening with the new dvd format? I don't care. Almost no one who buys a PS3 cares about the blu-ray thing. Really. All we want to know about is the game system.

I'm not sure if they publish these articles to try to create hype about the blu-ray format and associate it with the "cool" Playstation, or if they get published because Sony genuinely believes that anyone cares.

Where can I game?

This is causing me to lose even more respect for Sony (rootkit anyone). I was a loyal PS2 user but if its not one things its another and Sony is really going downhill in my book. Continued delays. Backing losing mediums (I'd rather go with HD-DVD). etc, etc. If I can no longer support Sony and god forbid I buy an Xbox where can I console-game? I guess I should just dig out the old-school Nintendo. I can't use Xbox or Sony anymore on principle.

Not to worry, everyone wants the DRM

after all, in addition to a new disk format noone sees a need for, and a price way too high for not enough games, you also get wonderful DRM and region-coding to make your life even more meaningful.

I'll be using my inexpensive, less than $250 USD Wii, in the meantime, playing all the really cool games that knock my socks off.

But, on a good note, PS2 sales are still beating the xBox and xBox360 combined, after E3.

Much ado about nothing

Kind of a side track but for myself and other Linux users will Blu-Ray ever be usable?

According to wikipedia among the many horrific things they've done DRM-wise is a change where the keys on players may be dynamically updated once a key has been broken and new media distributed from that point will use new, unbroken keys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Digital_ rights_management

Now I'm not sure how easy it will be for the crackers to get these keys but if it's anything but routine than Linux users will now have to do some sort of research into a disk before they buy it to make sure they can play it. It's even possible that they could have multiple keys in circulation at once making it impossible for a Linux user to know at the time of purchase if the media is even playable!

If this new encrpytion scheme is successful I'm going to have to stick to buying DVDs, and when those stop being sold I guess I'll have to be a pirate.

No.... you mean...

I'm going to have to wait even longer not to buy a Blu Ray unit?

Crap. I was really anxious to opt out of provider-updateable DRM ("Self-Protecting Digital Content") sooner rather than later.

http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=884 [freedom-to-tinker.com]

don't waste your money

Only a moron would spend $1,000 for a blu-ray player right now in my opinion.

What are you going to do with it? Watch one of the handfull of shitty movies that are out for it?

Wait 2 or 3 years and you'll get it for 1/4 that price and there will actually be something worth watching assuming the format doesn't completely fucking flop.

not to be pessimistic...

I have been reading a lot of comments about this being a strategy of Sony's -- push back the stand-alone player's date and the PS3 will sell because of its low price and inclusion of Blue Ray. But does anyone else realize how poor of a strategy that is? They're practically sabotaging their stand-alone for the console! Not to be pessimistic, folks, but I think Sony's console days are numbered.

Sony will release Blu-ray next week...

According to CNet, Sony will release a Blu-ray notebook next week http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-6082914.html?part= rss&tag=6082914&subj=news [com.com].

They also explained that the Blu-Ray player was delayed to coincide with the release of their new line of Bravia flat-screen TVs.

Geez... Isn't the gloom and doom stuff getting old?

Repeat after me... It's only a game console... It's only an evolutionary step from DVD technology... It is not oxygen, we can wait and see what happens...

Blu-ray: Quality will win

HD-DVD has been out for a month, and is reportedly "selling well" but that is, relatively well for an early adopter product. They are not moving huge volumes. The only players on the market are from Toshiba, with a "budget" $500 model and a "premium" $800 model.

The real market for both Blu-ray and HD-DVD is for 1080p HDTV owners. Upscaling DVD looks good on a 720p TV, and the maximum broadcast quality will be 1080i. The only place to get 1080p quality content will be Blu-ray or HD-DVD, and the cheaper Toshiba players will not even put out 1080p. All the Blu-ray players announced will feature 1080p, and are meant to have high build quality and high quality components, so that the early adopters who have 1080p sets will want them, because they have money, and want the best.

So, if the SONY unit is delayed until August, it just means that there will only be 1 Blu-ray player on the market for the first few months, and Samsung will have higher sales initially. Samsung also is making some very competitive 1080p HDTV sets, so look for some bundling and cross-promotion.

When the first Blu-ray movies are released with the Samsung player at the end of this month, the home theater sites and publications will compare the image quality, sound quality, and content of Blu-ray movies with the existing HD-DVD releases. There is a good chance that Blu-ray will look better, and win the favor of the early adopter technophile market. Over the next couple of years the percentage of HDTV sets that support 1080p will increase, driving demand for the highest quality content. The 50GB Blu-ray disc will support more movie content, and higher bitrate (less agressive compression, fewer compression artifacts), resulting in better image quality than HD-DVD.

Where does PS3 come in? As we know, the cheaper $500 PS3 will not have HDMI, so it is intended not to compete with the high-end Blu-ray players, but it will provide a huge market for Blu-ray discs. This will eventually bring prices down, so that 3 years from now, when the majority HDTVs are 1080p, and there are even 1080p sets for under $1000, then stand-alone blu-ray players will sell for $200-$300, and start to become mass market item.

That is my prediction.

The Sony/Samsung machine is C$1300!

I live in Canada and the announced price of the Samsung BD-P1000 is C$1299 versus C$699 for already released Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player. That's almost double the price! Why would I pay C$600 more for the Bluray player, especially when you factor in that all the major movie studios have announced support for both formats? $1299 for a DVD player, that just insane.

Granted, the Bluray movies have an expected price of around C$20 versus C$30-$35 for HD-DVD, but I could still purchase fifteen to twenty HD-DVD movies for the difference in the price of the Bluray player. I would also expect that if HD-DVD takes off, the price of movies will drop to that of the Bluray titles.

That price is even more insane when you consider that the release of the PS3 at ~C$700 is sure to cannibalize sales at half the price. Why not just sell the Bluray player at that price? It's going to make those that buy a player now feel like idiots come November. Is HD really worth spending $1300 bucks on (and there are only a handful of titles to choose from)?

I still don't understand Sony's strategy here.

Lest SONY's tactics be forgotten...

http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/17/ 0020225 [slashdot.org]

Just a thought

It is too late for sony to remove the Blue Ray Drive from the PS3. With the cost being known for the standalone drives being more than the PS3 people could argue that by replacing it with a DVD Sony should be able to give the console away.

Sony have shot themselves, again, in the foot.

Re:Sony, PS3, and BluRay

Yeah, Sony is really screwing up...just ask any Xbox fanboy - like, oh, Zonk!

Yeah, Microsoft and Nintendo are really screwing up... just ask any Sony fanboy - like, oh, YOU.

Half of the points you made are irrelevant until the consoles have actually been out for a couple years. Look at the first few titles for the GC, and then at the ones that have been coming out recently. MUCH improvement. Personally, I'm not really seeing that with the PS2. In fact, I'm seeing GC games that look better than PS2 games. And your 8000+ backcatalog points.... you've apparently forgot about the Wii's backcatalog of NES, SNES, N64, GC, Genesis, and TurboGrafx-16 games. I'm betting on them announcing even more before or shortly after release. Also, does anyone really expect the PS3 to be completely, flawlessly backward compatible?

Really, I'm just sick of hearing about any of this. And of people giving Zonk and the other editors crap about being biased. THEY'RE EDITORS. THAT'S WHAT EDITORS DO. Have you ever read a newspaper? Most of them have some sort of bias in the articles. Why do you expect it to be any different here?

Re:logical decision

Also there are very few titles availabe for HD DVD. Maybe they do this on purpose because people cannot see yet that there are a lot of other 'big releases' missing, not all studios signed up for hd dvd.

"A few" is more than ZERO releases of BD movies, which I guess doesn't matter since there are ZERO BD players available to consumers for another couple of weeks anyways. Even with all the studios signed up for BD the loss of "first-mover" advantage presents a great challenge, and despite the number of studios jumping on the BD wagon, they didn't EXCLUSIVELY jump on that wagon so it means little to nothing.

I think that sony is waiting to have more titles available, so they can make a big release.

And what will motivate those releases, when the captain of the team is late for the game? Perhaps there will be double the releases when the player finally comes out than there was for HD-DVD but two dozen vs. one dozen is still pathetic...and the longer it takes for BD players to filter into the market, the larger the library of HD-DVD releases gets, and once the reace really begins they'll be about equal.

Does the Playstation 3 record BD's? No, so stop comparing it to 1000 dollar players, you noobs

My understanding was that the $1000 standalone unit won't record either (that will cost even more), and I think that early-adopters would be more inclined to use a PVR to record so it would not be a killer feature. Furthermore, Sony could have a bit of a problem with the PS3, not only because it would undercut most of the 1st-gen standalone BD players, but also becasue Sony will lose money on the PS3--it is cheaper not because it costs less to make, but rather becasue Sony has amputated the profit margin because its computer entertainment division (like Microsoft's) sells consoles as a loss leader and tries to make money on the content.

Unfortunately this has the hallmarks of becoming "Beta: The Sequel"--a technically superior technology being out-priced and out-marketed by the more "primitive" yet still adequate and practical competition.

Re:Sony, PS3, and BluRay

I'm waiting to see who will have the crappier graphics. The PS2 was powerful in theory, but in practice most games looked much worse than on the Xbox. The PS3 is very likely to continue this trend, with its multiple processors and poor development tools.

Re:Sony, PS3, and BluRay

For $499 you get a PS3 from Sony that:

*Plays 1080p HD BluRay movies over component cables... Until they implement HDCP...
*Plays 1080p games (which has been possible on PC for years)
*All the same exclusive games that 103+ million people bought Playstation 2s for (so why not just play them on that)
*Complate backwards compatibility with 8000+ Playstation games (when it decideds to work properly)
*Complete backwards compatibility with 8000+ Playstation 2 games (see above)
*Free online play for all non-MMORPG games. Nothing new here
*Linux. To what end? I'm sure it will be just as huge a success as Linux on PS2 was.......
*Webbrowsing in 1080p on your HD TV monitor and other desktop apps that you run in 1600x1200+ (higher than 1080p) on your PC
*Tilt controller that they copied from Nintendo

Compared to the 200-250 Wii which looks to be fun at parties and can produce graphics that are more than adequate, all the while maintaining an aura of FUN vs just being eye-candy.

Or the XBox 360 which will end up costing you over 700 bucks for the non-worthless version over four to five years, vs a system that will cost you well over $2000 up front to use it to its full potential ($600 for a non-crippled PS3, $200 for a few games, $1200+ on the low end for a TV that supports HDMI so you don't lose 1080p playback when HDCP is implemented). And that doesn't include a keyboard or mouse to actually USE the "other desktop apps" properly. Or the overpriced accessories.

Re:What are they thinking?

SONY has always SUCKed!

You're just seeing the truths that many a young 12 yr old discovered after dishing out $100 for SONY Walkmans that died 4 months later. Just in time for the poor little kids to discover that the warranty had expired!

Re:logical decision

I don't even know if it is on the market here.

I've seen two Toshiba HD-DVD players on the market here (in the US if that is what you mean by 'here'). One is for $499 and the other for $799.

Re:Sony, PS3, and BluRay

* All the same exclusive games that 103+ million people bought Playstation 2s for
* Complete backwards compatibility with 8000+ Playstation games
* Complete backwards compatibility with 8000+ Playstation 2 games

I fail to see why people tout this as a reason to buy a PS3. Yes, I love my exclusive PS2 games...and I can continue to play them on my PS2, as I do now. That's not going to convince me to buy a PS3. I'm gonna buy a PS3 when there are games out that I want to play enough to justify the price of said games + the console. Not a moment sooner.