Getting Into the Games Industry Isn't Easy 84
simoniker writes "Lots of people want to be game developers — but it's not as simple as it sounds, as the Game Career Guide website explains in a new feature on game schools. Game professor Peter Raad: 'The number of job seekers who are seriously pursuing this field is staggering. It used to be the case that studios had the liberty to take bright, fresh, new employees with no specific game education background and train them in the methods, tools, and style that are required to make games. This is no longer true.'"
3am TV Meets 3pm /. (Score:5, Insightful)
Why are these 1 year game programming schools a bad idea? Because they're highly specific. Even a 2 year technical college would give you more options than a tech school.
I am currently a developer but I went through a four year liberal arts program at a state University. I would recommend at least that experience and I value those classes above everything else I have learned. My number one fear is that people sign up for these game academies and make the mistake of investing a lot of money (through loans probably) while coming away with only the potential for working on games. This isn't a good decision, the results can be quite devastating.
I think that game emphasis should be something only sought after a four year degree at a respected university. If you don't have at least a bachelor's degree, you're setting yourself up for some big time risk.
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Re:3am TV Meets 3pm /. (Score:5, Insightful)
Moreover, I do not see game schools as providing coders with the education they need to be game programmers. We're talking about strictly intermediate, cursory knolwedge of C++, little to no education in algorithms & data structures... These guys are the VB programmers of the industry, their education covered none of the CS basics that are wholly necessary in apps as optimized and low-level as performance 3D apps. the only good coders I've seen come out of game schools are the ones that went in experienced programmers already, and drove themselves to learn everything on their own, the school can take little credit for that one.
I disagree with TFA that there are an astounding number of people trying to break into the industry. Game development is the 20-somethings' equivalent of "I wanna be an astronaut!". A lot of people say it, a lot of people fantasize about it, but mostly everyone has no hope in hell of doing it, nor would they stay if they got there. In terms of the real contenders, I think we're doing just fine.
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-Rick
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I think there is a dev studio or two in M
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I don't think anyone really wants to be a game developer, as its just developing software and tedious at that. I think most people want to design the games.
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On a side note I just got my first computer with
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I don't know about that. I go to a school with an accredited CS program, and somehow we hav
Broaden your scope (Score:2)
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At the heart of it technology is still at the core of video games. While it's true that practically all major studios buy into middleware, this doesn't remove technology from the equation, nor does it open the door for incapable coders to create games. Even your average UnrealScript guy needs a heck of a lot more programming expertise than he is likely to gain from a game school certificate. A strong understanding of code, even if the coder is not operating at a very low level, is absolutely necessary. The
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A mesh editor doesn't care, and isn't expected to care about how many bits he can crame into a signle FP opperation. A Level designer doesn't need to understand how a lighting engine claculates surface
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It's not only that I have "no hope in hell of doing it" (although that may be true, I simply don't know since I've never tried), but also that even though programming games is kind of a dream, it would mean that I'd have to work twice as much, work crappy hours and receive half as much money as I do now.
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This industry started out with a bunch of small companies making games. Some of those grew into larger companies, some of those grew larger still, and then some of those either went public (EA) or got bought up by megacorps (too many to mention).
Given the amount of cash required to make a game these days, the small players are virtually all gone - they hun
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A designer needs to have an introduction to programming so that he can script, and know the technical limitations of a computer.
Programming positions still require 4 year degrees, or comparable experience. Computer science is such a large field. And game programming (at least for consoles, which I do) requires a quite in depth knowledge
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Herzing college game degree (Score:2)
First off (last I heard) their gamers degree was a bachelor's level degree, and the way their education is set up, it is much easier to complete a technical as
I'm not listening to you (Score:2)
Hell yes, it's easy! (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Hell yes, it's easy! (Score:4, Funny)
Not that I have a problem with that... They just could have toned down the iZod/70's hair thing a bit maybe? Tightening the graphics probably wouldn't have helped.
Getting into $established_industry isn't easy! (Score:1)
Game schools are basically jokes (Score:3, Insightful)
Out of all those things they all have helped me now that I'm in the industry, these "schools" are basically 16 month programs where if you really work you can learn a lot however there's not a huge drive to work hard, you can pass with a little work or you can excel if you push yourself.
That's not to say they are useless, one guy I work with went through these programs and he actually said that because he had a lot of drive he really went far, but that doesn't mean the school did anything other then give him people to learn from. It was his own personal push that got him through the school and got him a job at our company.
The only problem is that if he doesn't like the game industry it would be significantly harder for him to leave and get a job in IT or programming outside the game development world. The degree is so precise in what it teaches and so fast that with out experience it becomes null and void much faster then even basic CS degrees. But I guess you get what you pay for, my friend got the cannon which he loaded with the blasting powder which shot him up to our level (a decent sized studio making blockbuster sized games), while others in his class barely had enough to blow their own nose with.
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I think it goes beyond even the nuts and bolts of a programming. A good CompSci/CompEng program teaches the critical thinking skills necessary to be a good programmer. It is not enough to know how to do something; you really need to know why you are doing something and why that thing works.
For example, I don't think there were any programming assignments in the senior/grad data structures course I took. That's the easy part. Knowing why the algorithms worked the way they did and being albe to really r
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Of course, with a few changes, what you say could be applied to State Universities: I've seen a lot of people go through them without any real effort or motivation, and go into something they're not particularly interested in. But the
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Riiight, redux (Score:3, Interesting)
There's no such thing as an entry level tech job any more. Even a tech support rep position requires 2 years of tech support experience (see: catch-22). A job in the gaming industry requires not only that but soon it'll require one other thing: fluency in Hindu and Chinese. Preferably both, according to a recent Gamasutra article.
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There is plenty of work in the tech industry for almost-entry level positions. The catch is that so many kids are good with computers that they grow into already-trained young adults. The projects you were wasting time in high school and college on might end up being more relevant than the high school or college degree (not that having either of these hurts your chances at all.
Mod parent up, insightful (Score:1)
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Oh bullshit. My office mate just got a call from a recruiter today who is pleading for entry level A+ certified techs who have the following abilities:
- to show up to work on time
- to not hit on every female at the customer's site
- to iron one's shirt before showing up to work (no ties required)
- to manage customer relationships while representing the compan
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I think games jobs are safe for a while. The need for rapid turn-a-round between design, art, dev, and test is crucial and gets more important the closer you get to shipping. Waiting a day or two for assets/code because of the time difference would kill productivity, and no game studio I know of is organized enough to keep th
Duh. Wha? (Score:3, Insightful)
Right... It's called 'every teenage boy wants to do this with his life.' It's the next generation version of 'rock star.' It also means that not everyone who is 'seriously pursuing this field' is even remotely competent at it. They just want it really bad.
"It used to be the case that studios had the liberty to take bright, fresh, new employees with no specific game education background and train them in the methods, tools, and style that are required to make games. This is no longer true."
What? Sure it is. They are totally at liberty to take completely unknowledgeable people and try to expensively train them while ignoring semi- and mostly-trained people that also want that job. They'd be fools to do it (in most cases), but hey, that's their right.
I don't think there's any news here at all. Especially since there have been school entirely dedicated to this for quite some time. (I won't bother to advertise for them, as I feel they are all scam artists. "We promise to get you a job" etc etc. My sister's boyfriend just went through one... $80,000 later he's still looking for a job as a clerk.)
Knock, Knock... it's opportunity (Score:3, Interesting)
Right... It's called 'every teenage boy wants to do this with his life.' It's the next generation version of 'rock star.' It also means that not everyone who is 'seriously pursuing this field' is even remotely competent at it. They just want it really bad.
All these fly by night gaming schools are tapping into this market, but there is another way. A few really competent developers could clean up by grabbing one of the open source gaming engines out there, getting some venture capital and building it out
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There's been tons of 'program games quickly' apps out there and none of them have every produced a game worth selling... And I haven't met any that I felt were worth playing, either.
I would guess the best you could hope for with this is that a huge mega-company saw your efforts and thought 'wow, we would use that on upcoming game x' and hired you. Like Narbacular Drop. Except a game that was meant to have tons o
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I wish somebody would, but not because I think it'd work... But because I'd like to use it ;)
I've seen similar models work to build mod communities, even around relatively obscure games. Back in the 90s I remember the Macintosh only game "Realmz" which shipped with really cheap dev tools and had a built in service for downloading and selling these new modules. People were happy to pay $15-$30 for more content, some from the original author and some from other people. The key is to build a game that has l
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That's been going on since the early days of the home computer in the 1980's. Back then, it was text based adventure games and pinball creation kits; "Build the ultimate pinball machine".
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Re:Knock, Knock... it's opportunity - Crystalspace (Score:2)
Just like being a game developer, in theory it sounds easy and simple. In practice, it's tedious and complex.
But... look at Crystalspace - it's maybe the cl
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Just like being a game developer, in theory it sounds easy and simple. In practice, it's tedious and complex.
It doesn't sound easy or simple, but it is doable and something of the sort has been done before. Look at the easy to use editing tools in Neverwinter nights or Warcraft 3, or any number of other games. Something with that level of sophistication and ease of use, but integrated with a delivery service and open source.
But... look at Crystalspace...
Cystalspace is an engine and one that has some
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Yay! That means that wanna-be rock stars like myself will have more chance because everyone else'll want to be games programmers. Wait! I want to be a games programmer too... Which means i now have less chance of getting in the field... Life is rough!
my recruiter has hundreds of openings (Score:2)
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This is sort of what I'm thinking. I'd love to program games. I just graduated and got a job doing programming and it's quite nice. As much as I'd love to work on games, I know it isn't going to happen. My job pays well and has great flexability. If I get a job in the industry I'll be worked until I'm about to pass out for semi-reasonable pay.
I also think those kind of degrees are useless. That kind of thing is best as a minor with a real CS degree at most. I came out of DeVry just as they started rolling
Guildhall (Score:1)
The real issue is obvious (Score:2)
It really is part of the instant gratification, I deserve everything, entitlement attitude too many come out of schools with. Reality sucks and it hits many of them hard. Most who never had to do anything harder than whine to two parents to get what they wa
Game development is hardcore development (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't know whether to cry or laugh when I see mentions of these schools offering specific game programming courses and "degrees" that last for a year or two. Who are they kidding? Even colleges that offer 3-4 year programs with some kind of game programming specializations would, in my view, hardly prepare a person to actually develop games. Design, maybe, from the user's point of view
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Maybe I am out of the loop and game programming has indeed turned into some drag and drop excercise, but I am of the old skool where we used to optimize inner loops in assembly to get our pixels onto the screen as fast as possible when me and my friends were coding some crappy little games in high school.
So here's the deal. To make a fun game, you don't need really fast, impressive graphics. You need gameplay. You absolutely need some good coders to develop good gameplay, but you also need people with v
The gaming industry wasn't for me (Score:4, Interesting)
Now, don't take me wrong. I love games and I love making games. The main problem is that I seem to love them when I can develop games on my own terms, something of a rarity in the gaming industry. The pressure in the game industry is intense, with crunch time and publisher demands and an uncertain career path. Plus, if you falter, there's a dozen other people ready to take your place.
I opted for a much more stable and lucrative position in the healthcare industry. The work is interesting (web application development) and I like the people I work with. In what seems like a rarity these days, I can easily see myself spending the bulk of my career where I am. Already I've been here for 10 years and another thirty sounds just fine with me.
Making games as a hobby seemed to be the best choice for me. I enjoy the creative aspect of the work and the freedom to make the story I want to tell. It's fun to be able to give my work away for essentially free and bring a bit of joy to the world. There are occasional frustrations, such as debugging and post-release tension, but for the most part it's an enjoyable pastime that I hope to continue well into the future.
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Now I work 37.5 hours a week doing financial web apps, and code games at home.
I make more money, have less pressure and get to spend more time on doing innovative, interesting games development.
The only downside is that I'll never have 6+ million people play a game I worked on, and young boys don't say "wow you have the coolest job ever!"
It's probably easier now... (Score:2)
A perspective from the 8-bit days (Score:2)
It's never been like those commercials that run on G4, with those two guys in recliners looking at a big screen TV. "Which way d
Why would I hire someone from a "Games" school? (Score:4, Funny)
Take De Blob [gamedev.net], created by nine Dutch students for (I believe) the city government of Utrecht, in The Netherlands. I think it's a fine game; not perfect, but well-polished and (most importantly) complete. This means that the team has seen both the great and nasty aspects:
* "Let's create a great concept! This is going to be so rad!"
* "Prototype's done. Let's kick the tires."
* "I know we have the same machine. I'm saying it's not working on my machine."
* "That prototype sucked. We need to re-design our core game mechanic."
* "What do you mean we created our art assets too early and have to discard them?"
* "Time for the alpha. Our programming lead just left to become a nun?"
* "This game is so much fun that we play it for hours on end instead of working."
* "We have a bug where the game crashes if you move the mouse too much."
* "Why does everyone outside the dev team not like our game? We love it."
* "I want to quit. I want to quit. I want to quit. Rrrrr!"
* "Okay, now more artwork. Someone tell the artist to stop using 4096x4096 textures."
* "Everything's running smoothly. Beta time! This should be cake."
* "What do you mean, 'nobody can run the beta'?"
* "It's finally done! Hahaha!"
* "Wait, what do you mean it's not done?"
* "I'm so freakin' tired. Damnit, if I quit, I'll fail the course. Can't quit. Gotta keep going."
* "Finishing the final 10% should only take us 10% of our total dev time, right?"
* "Our playtesters are smashing their controllers against the walls."
* "Okay, our playtesters are finally happy."
* "Time to ship. That wasn't so bad. What's that yellow thing in the sky called, again?"
* "I need a drink."
Presumably, folks who have been through a project of any reasonable size have some idea of how development goes, and can recognize some not-so-obvious mistakes. And the ability to stick with it through a grungy project (and they're all grungy at one point or another) is a plus.
While that's not enough to recommend these programs outright (and there many be many other points that make them not worthwhile), I view it as a big benefit.
________________________________________
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Games for Linux is VERY easy (Score:2)
There was a time when it was impossible to get a job working on a kernel until open source came along. Open source has enabled alot of developers to cut their teeth and prove their skills to be able to get a job.
You can always develop for Linux (even a paid for project) using openGL and should your project go well, you will get the attention you deserve. It may even be possible that you could start your own company should it get popular enough.
It's a great wayto cut yo
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How I got into the games industry as a developer (Score:3, Interesting)
PS I got back out of games a year later...
What they need is tighter graphics!!! (Score:1)
http://tightgraphs.ytmnd.com/ [ytmnd.com]
Reality is that it is not what you know, but who you know. Not only do you need skill to be successful in the industry but know those that are already in that can help you get in, but only if you're worthy enough.
My buddy got his job as a level designer without going to school whatsoever. I mean he's a highschool graduate, went to Devry, dropped out of there cuz he didn't like it - then attended a
SIGGRAPH jobs lists (Score:2)
I started my career in the games industry... (Score:1)
It was a great job while it lasted - long long hours, passion to make fun games, learned so so mu
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I think I'd just rather do some more interesting business programming. I doubt I'd actually enjoy game programming full time, so perhaps it IS best I just
My path to the games industry was similar (Score:2)
I agree there is a ton of BS to deal with, mostly dealing with business and marketing. I don't think gamers realize how hard it is to balance quality with all of the money and time aspects of the business. I'm the believer that almost anything can be solved with technology, ingen
Long days working after you get the job (Score:1)
Getting Into the Movies Industry Isn't Easy Either (Score:2)
Lots of people want to be game developers -- but it's not as simple as it sounds
In other news, lots of people want to be top models, famous singers and actors - but it's not as simple as it sounds
Game Artists? (Score:1)
Designers shouldn't know how to program (Score:2)
Wait a minute... game DESIGNERS shouldn't be programmers, in fact, I'd say that knowing a programming language would just get in the way of the creative concepts that go into making games. Shouldn't game designers have more of a background in human psychology, literature, problem solving, drama, cinematography/videography, and the arts?
I think the worlds of the developer and the designer, at least in terms of the larger, mainstream markets, should be kept completely separate. Designing and developing are
Motivation (Score:2)
Game programming is what you might call a "sexy" field, and it's not the only one. It's not that there is anything special or different about coding games that makes it so difficult to get into--you just have to be good at it. Companies want to hire you because you have what it takes; it's not like you have to be "in" or anything.
The biggest problem is that a lot of people have delusions about what they need to do or what they can do--they are infatuated with the concept of creating games because they lo
Can be great. (Score:2)
Being in the industry.... (Score:2)