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2006 NetHack Tournament 61

Posted by Zonk from the may-those-who-are-about-to-die-salute-you dept.
robin writes "With another Halloween here and gone, the fall NetHack season is open once again. The 8th annual /dev/null/nethack Tournament started at midnight on November 1st, and will last through the rest of the month. You may wish to read the instructions and see what trophies are available this year before registering to compete."
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2006 NetHack Tournament More

2006 NetHack Tournament

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  • Porn (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 06, 2006 @06:30PM (#16744251)
    n@n
  • I just started playing Nethack, it is such a fantastic game. If I went here I would get smoked. If something like this could ever be made graphical I would eat it alive.

    • Re:Just started (Score:4, Informative)

      by wertarbyte ( 811674 ) on Monday November 06, 2006 @06:50PM (#16744597) Homepage
      There are many gui frontends for nethack, I especially like this one [maemo.org] for my Nokia 770 :-)
    • Try Tiles Mode [wikipedia.org] then...

    • Re:Just started (Score:4, Informative)

      by pla ( 258480 ) on Monday November 06, 2006 @06:53PM (#16744647) Journal
      If something like this could ever be made graphical I would eat it alive.

      Although I think, based on that statement, that you might not quite "get" the charm of NetHack...

      Falcon's Eye [users.tkk.fi] does exactly what you ask for, a fully (isometric) 3d interface on top of core game engine.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by hurfy ( 735314 )
        Semi-informative perhaps...

        Appears Falcon's eye is a couple versions old with no updates in many years :(
        Vulture's Eye is a *nix GUI replacement for current version.

        Appears you have to hack em together yourself for a current windows GUI :(

        Darn sounded interesting...always liked the play of nethack and moria.

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by pla ( 258480 )
          Appears you have to hack em together yourself for a current windows GUI :(

          Strangely enough, thanks to this Slashdot FP rekindling my ancient almost-beaten addiction to NetHack, I discovered Vuture shortly after I posted.

          The newest version (2.1.0) actually supports Windows directly, and runs windowed as well (Falcon's would only run fullscreen). You can grab it from here [darkarts.co.za].

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by misleb ( 129952 )
        Of course, the 3D interfaces are difficult to play. But maybe I'm must too used to having the full dumgeon map laid out in small, succinct characters for maximum information. Falcon's Eye, while nice looking, was unplayable, IMO.

        -matthew

        • Of course, the 3D interfaces are difficult to play. But maybe I'm must too used to having the full dumgeon map laid out in small, succinct characters for maximum information. Falcon's Eye, while nice looking, was unplayable, IMO.

          The problem with normal text mode is that you can't tell a ghost (" ") form a darkened portion of the room (also " ") without specifically looking around. Realistic, perhaps, but also annoying.

          I once, long ago, when i still used DOS, found a program that replaced the font with

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by misleb ( 129952 )

            The problem with normal text mode is that you can't tell a ghost (" ") form a darkened portion of the room (also " ") without specifically looking around. Realistic, perhaps, but also annoying.

            I think that is kinda the point.

            I once, long ago, when i still used DOS, found a program that replaced the font with special symbols. It wasn't exactly graphical, but it was just enough to turn the game from ascetic to comfortable. Ah, the hours I spent chasing after succubi...

            I agree, roguelikes are better with som

            • I have been able to get the "IBM graphics" option to work on linux by setting the terminal program (eg gnometerm) encoding to "Western" (not UTF8), then setting TERM=pcansi in the shell and doing "tput reset". Start nethack and set the IBM Graphics and colour option, and this should give you the proper walls, shaded corridors etc

              I started playing Hack over twenty years ago on an Olivetti M21, and I've never been able to handle the unix graphics.

      • On the contrary, (Score:3, Informative)

        by patio11 ( 857072 )
        ... "eat it alive" is exactly the NetHack mentality. Just don't do it to a cockatrice. Bad idea unless you've been polymorphed into something with immunity to stoning, have a ring of anti-petrification, etc. Oh, don't eat Pestilence alive, either. Save that for trolls, it stops them from regenerating. (No, really, I swear: this is Informative, not Funny.)

      • Re:Just started (Score:4, Insightful)

        by grumbel ( 592662 ) <grumbel+slashdot@gmail.com> on Monday November 06, 2006 @11:44PM (#16747823) Homepage
        The problem with Falcon's Eye and virtually every other NetHack GUI is that they basically only replace the ASCII characters with graphical tiles, they neither change the interface nor gameplay, which however would be needed to have a good looking and well playable graphical client. The result is that the graphic clients still look ugly (no animation, no smooth scrolling, walls don't differ from unexplored terrain, ...) nor play well (gtk dialogs are not what you want to use to navigate nethack, mouse interface is there, but basically unplayable so you need keyboard, ...).

        I would love to see a nethack version/fork that adds real current day graphics and interfaces, while staying true to the core of the original game, but so far none of the GUI additions come even close to that, they don't even try.
        • As far as I know the GUIs aren't supposed to add whizz-bang graphics, I think they're made only to help newbies identify friends, foes, items, and objects. Speaking as a slashdotter who has never had the pleasure of enjoying NetHack simply because I don't have the time nor have taken the effort to memorize each of the ascii chars used, I would probably have an easier time learning with pictures. (bonus points if I can switch between the graphical tiles and the ascii chars on the fly)
        • You know that Diablo is basically a real-time Roguelike. Also, a neat little game called Dungeon Hack [mobygames.com] came out in the early 90s which melded Roguelikes with AD&D (Eye of the Beholder style). I still play it once in a while with DOSBox.
      • I play the game in tile based and sometimes classic mode and it is fantastic, I do "get" the charm. You use your imagination. I was not specific enough in my first post, I meant if it was ever fully rendered and well made into a three dimensional modern game that could take what I see in my imagination and perfectly capture it. Which I doubt is going to happen anytime soon. Vultures eye and the Slash'EM mod (I think vultures claw) really hurt the game for someone who has never played it before I think.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by sixpaw ( 648825 )
      If something like this could ever be made graphical I would eat it alive.
      They did. It was called Diablo, and you might have heard something about it...

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by misleb ( 129952 )
        They did. It was called Diablo, and you might have heard something about it...


        Oh please. They're barely in the same genre. For one thing, Diablo is real-time/action where Nethack is turn based/strategy...

        -matthew
        • Diablo started as a turn-based game, but the team made a (very good) decision to go real-time. I read an interview with the devs some years back.

          I playeed Angband, a nethack variant set in the First Age of Middle Earth. Well, sort of set then.

          Diablo randomly generates levels. Angband randomly generates levels.
          Diablo randomly generates a level full of monsters, including a handful of 'boss' monsters. Angband does the same, but the special levels are far harder and can contain many 'boss' monsters.
          Diablo has

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by misleb ( 129952 )

            Diablo started as a turn-based game, but the team made a (very good) decision to go real-time. I read an interview with the devs some years back.

            Whether or not the developers started Diablo as turn-based is irrelevent. It isn't turn-based. The turn-based nature of Nethack (and since you brought it up, Andband) is one of the primary features that makes the (sub)genre we call "roguelike" in which Diablo is not included.

            Diablo randomly generates levels. Angband randomly generates levels.

            Lots of games randoml

            • Ah. Someone who responds to every sentence.

              We clearly disagree, and that you refer to Diablo as a RPG shows you clearly haven't played a real RPG. Like NetHack, it's a dungeon crawler. Sadly it never had the variety of NetHack, Angband or many variants. It's just dull. Levels full of one type of monster or (shock gasp!) two! The excitement was just... never there.

              Nice that you enjoyed it though. It was very popular, but as someone who likes a lot more substance I found it boring. I'm clearly out of step wit

              • Re: (Score:2)

                by misleb ( 129952 )
                How can we disagree? I don't even think we are having the same conversation. It might help if you actually responded to my points directly instead of pretending they never existed. You seem to think that I am expounding upon the virtues of Diablo. I'm just saying that it isn't in the same class as roguelikes like Nethack or Angband. Not because rouguelikes are better or more interesting (although I agree that they are), but just because roguelikes are a class of their own. The styles of gameplay are just di

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by HanClinto ( 621615 )
      I see that many other people here have suggested Vultures/Falcon's Eye. That one's okay, but I don't like the fixed isometric perspective or the way it handles mouse navigation. My personal favorite has been [url=http://www.darkarts.co.za/projects/noegnud/] n oeGNUd[/url] -- it's got fairly recent builds for Windows, the text-based pseudo-graphical tile sets that are available are well done (like a little red "d" with a white tip for a fox). I also really like the way it does 3d, with letting you spin the ca

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Hatta ( 162192 )
      I just started playing Nethack, it is such a fantastic game. If I went here I would get smoked. If something like this could ever be made graphical I would eat it alive.

      Graphics just get in the way. Eventually you just "see" through the characters and your imagination does the rest. Use the console, and use the 'hjkl' keys. These are essential for the complete nethack experience.

      Above all, don't give up. I started playing in 2002 and just ascended this year. It's so worth it.

  • dupe (Score:1)

    by sdaemon ( 25357 )
    dupe from several days ago.

  • I *heart* nethack (Score:4, Interesting)

    by joe 155 ( 937621 ) on Monday November 06, 2006 @06:48PM (#16744577) Journal
    Nethack is an ace game, I usually play as a male human neutral ranger, and over my few games I've gradually been getting deeper - so far I could win one award, well, I say award it is "Killed By A Trickery", which happened to me today... all the word text from pick ups got stuck on parts of the screen so I couldn't tell what was an enemy and then I was killed very slyly by something random like a cyote...

    By the way, what is a good level to get to on nethack for a short game after having been playing for a little while?

    • Re:I *heart* nethack (Score:4, Informative)

      by AdamTrace ( 255409 ) on Monday November 06, 2006 @07:01PM (#16744767)
      I think completing the Gnomish Mines and Sokoban are good goals for a newbie player... Afterwards follow the Quest, Medusa, and the Castle...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by misleb ( 129952 )
      You should at least be able to get to the castle (killed by a drawbridge lately?) often. Although, sadly, I often don't make it through the gnomish mines. Once I make it through there, i'm usually in for a good long game.

      My favorite character is a valkyrie. Gauntlets of Power + Mjollnir == serious ass kicking.

      Although I don't play Nethack anymore. I'm a total ToME [t-o-m-e.net] convert.

      -matthew
       
    • Bring killed by a trickery, on a multi-user system, practically always means killed by a game bug. If you were playing it on the tournament site then it's probably because of a bug in the patch they use to implement this year's "challenge."

      Trickeries occur when the game notices a problem with a save file or one of the temporary level files that causes it to suspect they have been tampered with. Thus, game bugs can also cause them, although "panic" and "killed by a collapsing dungeon" are also possible res

  • Does anyone know of a good NetHack GUI for OS X? All I've found is the old Carbon version, and something based on QT. They are both incredibly ugly. I also know there is the command line version, but I fell in love with the Windows GUI and I was wondering if anyone knew of a similar GUI for OS X?

    As for me? I'm terrible. I have gotten to the end of the Gnomish mines two or three times. Doing that and getting back up to the main dungeon then down a few levels is my biggest accomplishment.

    • I don't know about a GUI, but if an ugly tileset is your only problem, you could replace it with this one [olywa.net], my personal favorite.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by misleb ( 129952 )
      Mind if I ask what you need a GUI for? If I remember correctly, the Windows version isn't significantly different than the old fashioned console version. Do you need tiles? Personally, I won't use anything that doesn't show monsters as letters. There is no better way to identify/classify the myriad of monsters in Nethack than letters. The tiles are usually too small to be very informative. And not knowing what you are up against is usually fatal.

      -matthew

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by ClamIAm ( 926466 )
      I heard terminal.app is pretty good.

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Slashcrap ( 869349 )
      Does anyone know of a good NetHack GUI for OS X? All I've found is the old Carbon version, and something based on QT. They are both incredibly ugly.

      So not only do you need a GUI to play a fundamentally text based game but you're complaining that the window decorations on the GUI you have clash with your oh-so-pretty OSX.

      Are you trying to be a parody of the whiniest, most irritating Mac user ever created or are you just like that in real life?

  • Rogue season. (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    > "With another Halloween here and gone, the fall NetHack season is open once again.

    daffy: Rogue season!
    bugs: Nethack season!
    daffy: Rogue season!
    bugs: Nethack season!
    daffy: Rogue season!
    bugs: Rogue season!
    daffy: Nethack season! Fire!
    @: *BLAM*
    daffy was killed by a buwwet

    *reload*

    daffy: OK. This time you start it.
    bugs: Right! Rogu-
    daffy: Nethack! FIRE!
    @: *BLAM*

    daffy takes 10 HP of damage.

    @: *click*
    @: WTF? No more buwwets.
    daffy: No more buwwets?
    bugs: Hey laughing

  • If stuck... (Score:4, Informative)

    by ZzzzSleep ( 606571 ) on Monday November 06, 2006 @07:21PM (#16745033) Homepage Journal
    If you need some help, here are some of the best places to visit.
    rec.games.roguelike.nethack [google.com].
    Dylan O'Donnell's nethack spoiler page [spod-central.org].

    Enjoy and good luck everybody!
    • For my information, I personally like Wikihack [wikia.com]. It has just about everything.

      Of course, I'm still not that great at the game. I've gotten to the quest portion, but only by savescumming [wikia.com]. I know it's frowned upon, but savescumming is a good way to learn what the hell you're doing. And when I did get to the quest, I wasn't high enough level to start it, which sucked because there were two liches (a master lich [wikia.com] and an arch-lich [wikia.com]) on the same level as the quest master. That sucked.

      Aero

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by ZzzzSleep ( 606571 )
        It may sound strange, but your skills will improve once you stop savescumming. I used to savescum, but wouldn't be able to keep motivated to keep playing. Once I stopped, my playstyle improved and I was able to ascend. When you savescum, there is no need to constantly improve your character, because you can always restart at the last save point.
        • Actually, I agree with you completely. I can honestly say that taking one rogue to level 12 by savescumming did help me a lot, though. I learned a lot about the creatures I need to be on the lookout for. I haven't done it since that character.

          You're right though. Saving it like that does make the game pretty boring pretty quickly. But dying constantly also makes it pretty boring.

          aero

          • Re: (Score:2)

            by SQLGuru ( 980662 )
            I'd recommend one pass through the game in Wizard mode (see documentation on how to enable it). You get to see everything and it doesn't resort to save scumming (since you can prevent death). Plus, you don't pollute the high score table. Then, try to repeat in normal mode. Repeat until successful.

            Layne

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by jandrese ( 485 )
              I second that thought. One thing I've never much liked about Nethack is that as you get better you can often make games last for hours before finding a situation you've never encountered before, but handling the situation wrong (and the proper solution isn't correct) basically just dumps you back at level 1 with nothing. That gets disheartening real fast because there are a lot of dangers on the lower levels that can kill or screw you over in a single action and basically stop your 12 hour run right on th
  • You can find just about every spoiler at Wikihack [wikia.com], along with a whole lot more than you ever needed to know.
  • Goodbye, dear family - if all goes well, I'll bring a D's tooth back for each of you.
  • What about a networked game locally of Nethack? My daughter's computer is an old piece of junk, and I've been looking for games we can network together. Of course I'd want a GUI frontend like Falcon's Eye, but for the server I can put it on either Linux or Windows.

    Jonah HEX

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Fjornir ( 516960 )
      Dunno about nethack but there are multiplayer angbands.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by 6350' ( 936630 )
      Yes, there are multiplayer variants of a number of roguelikes. The url in name/blrb deal above is to a multiplayer Angband variant that I'm a big fan of.

      Now, we all know that Diablo draws some clear inspiration from Roguelikes (randomly generated dungeons in a stack under a town, with the main bad dude at the bottom). However, I recently hear tale that originally, Diablo was turn-based! It ran, thus, almost completely like a graphical roguelike. One programmer thought it would be a fun game if it were to
  • The two challenges -- the grues and the no-Elbereth -- really make the game not nethack. The first challenge cuts off the mines and any dark room until you find a magic lamp or learn the light spell. These are things that don't usually happen until you've done most of the mines or made it down to the castle. Plus without the mines your character will not gain the 3-6 levels and asorted items it needs to survive the big room and below. Not to mention that it makes trapdoors almost an instadeath if you hap
    • Sure you can ignore the challenges, but lets face it no one is going to respect you if you do.

      I've happily ignored both challenges and feel no qualms about either. I'm kindof sorry I ignored the Grue challenge as it sounds like it could be a lot of fun, but I'm plodding ahead regardless. I don't feel that I've lost any "respect" from my Nethack-playing-peers, as if that's what I was playing the game for. Personally I think Robin has done a great job with the tournament and I for one welcome him as our N

    • So, no one will respect you if you ignore the challenges, but they WILL if you complain about the challenges and then completely refuse to play...? Is that where we're at here?

      I love the Grue challenge. I've decided to ignore the KOL challenge because there is no way I'm getting anywhere near the Wizard during this tournament anyway (because I suck). As for the darkness, though, all you need is a wand of light and a wand of digging (or a pickaxe), and you can buy a lamp in the Gnome town. I've made it t
    • Actually I very rarely use the E-word for just repelling monsters, and the swarms of a's and q's are better avoided by other means (such as dancing away and throwing things at them).

      Most commonly (unless I'm going illiterate) I use the Elbereth to keep things such as b's away from my stashes (mainly the gelotonous variety). Coming back to find your massive cache of scrolls has been eaten or dragged all over the map by intelligent monsters is not a pretty site. Especially the large box gets eaten by a b, b g

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