Gamers Divorced From Reality? 654
nd01 writes "According to Gamepolitics.com, Bill OReilly has a few choice words for gamers and computer geeks in general. The well-known conservative pundit has harsh words for iPod owners, gamers, the PS3, and all of us 'disconnected from reality' by modern technological contrivances."
From the article: "Basically what you have is a large portion of the population, mostly younger people under the age of 45, who don't deal with reality — ever. So they don't know what day it is; they don't know temperature it is; they don't know what their neighbor looks like. They don't know anything... because they are constantly diverted by a machine. Now what this does is it takes a person away from reality because they've created their own reality..."
Pot? Kettle? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Pot? Kettle? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know anything about Bill O'Reilly's origins, since I only watch him for a laugh now and then, but if he were ever part of reality he left it long ago for the greener pastures of celebrity, albeit minor celebrity.
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I think the word you were searching for was "infamy".
Re:Pot? Kettle? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why is it that you don't hear about NBA stars disconnected from reality? All they do is live in their celebrity. They live, breathe, and eat basketball. When the day is done, they go out to clubs in expensive cars and live the life of a celebrity. Are these people just as disconnected from reality? Absolutely. Are all NBA stars like this? Nope, because its a generalization.
I'm sure there are some computer geeks disconnected from reality, but so are plenty of other people, who are into plenty of other things.
It all comes down to O'Reilly being an idiot and looking to generate some publicity with off-the-wall statements.
Re:Pot? Kettle? (Score:5, Insightful)
Good question, my answer is: because people are normally afraid of what they don't understand. Sports are easy to understand, every idiot can understand sports. But looking at strange code on a computer screen or playing games is not familiar to older generations and they react accordingly with fear and accusations of witchcraft.
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Re:Pot? Kettle? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't. I mean, I understand playing sports; that's fun, but I don't get sports fandom. It's one thing to cheer for a friend or family that's playing a game but to be emotionally involved with a bunch of rich guys playing a game with a ball is just weird.
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He's like my great grandfather bitching about my grandpa and those other kids spending all the
Re:Pot? Kettle? (Score:4, Interesting)
Did he also say that interacting face to face all the time hurts the ability for people to interact via technology...and that there would be serious problems down the road for old Luddites?
Re:Pot? Kettle? (Score:5, Interesting)
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This exact same complaint has been made about people who watch television -- people separated from their community and life by sitting in front of the tube.
These days, though, our tube has a network connection out the back.
Meh. He's just pissed over the Mortal Shot nerf (Score:5, Funny)
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In O'Reilley's Reality... (Score:3, Insightful)
we found WMDs in Iraq;
we're winning in Iraq;
the world was created by God approximately 7,500 years ago;
evolution is a liberal fabrication designed to undermine the true faith;
global warming isn't happening, and if it is then it is good for you;
lying about an extra-marital affair is a greater crime than torture, agressive wars, or illegal spying;
any fact can be refuted by yelling !!SHUT-UP!! really loudly; AND...
people who get their news online are more detached from rea
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Re:Pot? Kettle? - Logical Fallacies 101 (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously, if this was an Ask Slashdot, "Do video games, ipods and technology destroy social networks?" and some person said, "Well, that's what O'Reilly thinks and he's a frothing right-wing nutjob," you'd have a point.
However, I'd argue that this is much more about Bill O'Reilly than it is about his rant. Of course, I've probably just been successfully trolled, because who's going to say that an informal Slashdot discussion about something Bill O'Reilly said isn't allowed bring up the dubious authority of the man himself?
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A raving lunatic doesn't need to have every utterance individually refuted in order for someone to know that such ravings aren't likely to be of much value.
Taking every possible point of view solely on its own merits is fine if you have nothing but time, and don't value it. For everyone else, it's reasonable to require some level of positive reputation behind a point before investing any time into considering it.
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Re:Pot? Kettle? - Logical Fallacies 101 (Score:5, Funny)
Expert Opinion (Score:5, Funny)
Hey I know what day it is! (Score:5, Funny)
Forecastfox has the weather for me, and as for what my neighbor looks like, thats what MySpace and Meetup.com are for!
What's reality, anyway?
Re:Hey I know what day it is! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hey I know what day it is! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hey I know what day it is! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Hey I know what day it is! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Hey I know what day it is! (Score:5, Insightful)
Reality is that his generation is using their last gasps at power to fuck everything up for our generation. Is it any wonder that we want to divorce ourselves from his so-called reality?
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Yes, there are a lot of people out here (myself included) who don't believe that the Iraq war is serving our country's interests, and no, I don't see that as a problem. I respect most everyone who is fighting over there. They're making great sacrifices and I believe that most of them honestly believe they are trying to make the world a better place. But I also believe
Re:Hey I know what day it is! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Hey I know what day it is! (Score:5, Insightful)
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As a catholic, he's got his position on abortion of course.
The right is finally starting to disintegrate a bit and break back into it's pieces.
There are fiscal conservatives (quasi-libertarian), social conservatives (o'reilly), war-hawks, corporatists, and not a few fascists among them.
He's probably right about reality- but you know-- reality can SUCK pretty harshly for a lot of folks. For $12.99 a month, they can sink into a reality where they are rich and
In other news... (Score:5, Funny)
How dare you! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:How dare you! (Score:4, Funny)
God! you people are so full of your games! O'Reilly is absolutely righhhh.....
**choke**
*gasp*
WAIT! I was just joking.
**gasping last breath...**
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What the hell is this number over my head counting down that suddenly appeared?
I tried a divorce from reality (Score:5, Funny)
I am not disconnected from reality! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I am not disconnected from reality! (Score:5, Funny)
See? Real life has consequences.
How Is This About Politics??!! (Score:2, Insightful)
And besides, why is this filed under politics? According to the slashdot FAQ, this sections is for news related to US Government politics. The US government is not in play at all here.
Re:How Is This About Politics??!! (Score:5, Funny)
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Yeah (Score:4, Funny)
Hypocracy? (Score:5, Insightful)
--Jeremy
Re:Hypocracy? (Score:5, Insightful)
We're talking about the same Jesus, right?
Conservatives: tough on crime. Liberals: big on rehabilitation.
Typical conservative quote: "You did the crime, now do the time."
Typical liberal quote: "Sure, he robbed a store, but his family was starving, and it was a first offence. Go easy on him."
Jesus: "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." "Go, and sin no more."
Conservatives: big on revenge. Liberals: big on compassion.
Typical conservative quote: "We should avenge 9/11 by bombing some serious Islamofascist ass."
Typical liberal quote: "We should fight terrorism with aid and diplomacy, not bombs."
Jesus: "Love your enemy; do good to those who hate you." "Turn the other cheek."
Conservatives: big on welfare "reform". Liberals: big on welfare.
Typical conservative quote: "Handouts create a culture of dependency and encourage people to be lazy."
Typical liberal quote: "Welfare is essential to fight poverty and give the children of poor parents a decent chance in life."
Jesus: you may draw your own conclusions from the feeding of the 5,000.
Conservatives: hate taxes. Liberals: love taxes.
Typical conservative quote: "We must enact a tax relief package to lift the crushing tax burden on our richest citizens."
Typical liberal quote: "We must raise taxes to pay for better public services."
Jesus: "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's." See also Jesus' famous friendship with tax collectors, and the incident of the Widow's Mite, where Jesus approved of a poor woman paying crippling taxes.
And so on. Sorry, but Jesus = Liberal - there's simply no two ways about it.
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Just curious.
Jesus also had his desciples carry swords. Why? At one point he tells them to sell their cloak and buy a sword.
Bear in mind, the Jews couldn't exactly vote out Roman tax collectors. For more, see;
Regarding welfare and taxes [2wgroup.com] (not my blog)
you may draw your own conclusions from the feeding of the 5,000.
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(emphasis added)source [livius.org], source [isidore-of-seville.com]
Alexander t
Some journalist..... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, there are some pasty-faced unwashed slobs out there who really think they live in Azeroth. But there are a ton of casual gamers who get out, have a real life, etc, etc. People who bring up arguments like this are similar to those that point out that drunks seem to be in taverns or their local liquor shops all the time and do nothing but drink, so therefore all drinkers are bad people.
Addiction to anything can be bad. But painting anyone who indulges in something with the same brush is just ignorant.
Not the only one (Score:2)
Opinion Formula (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder if O'Reilley actually believes the things he says or if he understands them to be opinions manufactured for ratings and political results.
O'Reilly's reality is television (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but... (Score:5, Interesting)
What you and people *over* the age of 45 call reality, I call senile dementia, Bill.
I can respond by saying that people of the age group you are talking about are entirely the problem. They're just as divorced from reality as anyone else...and the thing is, that although younger people might be divorced from reality as well, they're not able to take their delusion and from that perspective *enact laws.*
Also, if you really want to go there...younger people on average are a lot more intimate with technological developments, particularly where computers are concerned. We're a lot more likely to understand issues because unlike you and your geriatric peers, we actually have to live with said issues. Your generation aren't the ones who've had to die by the thousands in Iraq...many of you, when you *were* our age yourselves, dodged service...which makes you sending members of my generation off to die that much more disgusting. You're also not the ones who are going to have to deal with the real consequences of what your generation has done to the environment...you'll be dead in 20 years.
You are a sick, deeply degraded human being, Mr. O'Reilly...and you shame yourself on a continual basis with your entirely voluntary ignorance and rock stupidity. The only thing that keeps me from fervently wishing that you and other individuals like you did not exist is the realisation that in doing so, I would myself go down to your level.
Re:Yes, but... (Score:4, Insightful)
Some Truth to This (Score:2, Insightful)
People now are more separated than they are connected. Through a combination of technology, and paranoia, we've started sealing ourselves off from the world around us. How often do you see kids playing in your neighborhood on a summer's day? I was visiting my folks this summer and I know for a fact the neighborhood they live in is filled with little kids. Not a single one went outside to play the several days I was there
Pedoes (Score:3, Insightful)
The news media has made parents more aware of child molesters, and many parents have become so phobic about th
Re:Some Truth to This (Score:5, Insightful)
Really, this is just TV talking heads pissed off that the TV is being used for more than watching their shows. If the TV is used for video games, it's not used for talking heads.
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Sadly, that's his M.O. - enveloping a micrsoscopic kernel of truth (although most often it's a "perceived truth" aka preconception and stereotype) in endless rhetoric about how he's right, everybody else is wrong and the world going to hell in a handbasket. How he built a little empire on that, I have no idea. IQs must have dropped sharply while I was away.
Re:Some Truth to This (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Some Truth to This (Score:4, Insightful)
The separated from reality stuff is just like all the people who lament the massive shift from the farm to the city; people don't grow their own food anymore and so forth. Guess what, things change.
Technology or not, people are going to seek the same types of relationships, some deeper than others, etc. The enabling factors provided by technology are probably good in some cases, and probably bad in others.
I yell at the kids in my neighborhood to get off my grass all the time.
Citing online dating services as a way to avoid interacting with people is probably a bad idea.
Lot's of my neighbors are idiots. Now that I have better things to do, I do them.
There have always been social problems, and there always will be, part of what makes life interesting is that people are different, and people that are different are going to occasionally actually notice the fact.
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> Look around you at most of the people you may work with in IT. How many of them are social creatures, going out and partying on weekends etc?
ok.
> Gamers, especially hardcore MMO players, are notorious for spending days if not weeks doing little more than playing their games.
I hope you see the contradiction here. MMOs are nothing BUT social events.
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Wait a second. He wants those of us in IT to act like Paris Hilton?
I'm so confused!
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Re:Some Truth to This (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Some Truth to This (Score:5, Insightful)
"How often do you see kids playing in your neighborhood on a summer's day?"
This is true, but honestly a large part of it comes from the parents. My mom would let us run about the neighborhood on our own when I was 10 or so just so long as we came back for dinner. Most parents are so paranoid about kidnappings, drugs, pedophiles, drunk drivers and other problems the media exaggerates. They want they're kids to be where they can see them or hear them. Not to mention that in households with two working parents, or a single parent - the kids don't get home from school until 5 or 6pm. Then its homework, dinner, bath and maybe just time for a TV show or couple rounds of Super Smash Bros before bed. After school play time has been replaced by after school child care programs or other activities. Weekend programs are much more common as well. My own kid's weekend socializing is primarily through organized sports and educational activities.
Kids lives have changed a lot and not just due to video games. Where I live they have a year round program where summer only lasts one and a half months.
"How many of them are social creatures, going out and partying on weekends etc?"
All of the ones I know have some form of social life, be it clubs and partying, wife and family or even church groups.
"When was the last time you sat on your porch and chatted with a neigbor?"
Well we don't have a porch, but last night on the front steps and usually a couple times a week. Every once and a while we have some drinks and a laugh together outside the apartment after work. And these are not people I knew before moving into the apartment. Nor are they people with similar interests to me. One is a janitor at a local school. I make it a point to know my neighbors to some degree.
"We don't like to think that maybe we're less social or less connected with the outside world than we should be."
Why are other communication forms besides face to face bad? I agree that physical body and facial cues are absent. Or in IM so is tonality but thats why IM has such a wide range of terminology to offset that.
I've made friends in other states and countries through online gaming and while no they could never be my closest or best friends (due to proximity), they certainly have enriched my life. I would say learning first hand from people in other places or situations expands my knowledge of the "outside world" - as in it creates a picture larger than that of my immediate location.
Kurt Vonnegut in his last book mentions that virtual communities have no value - and yet he went on to promote the book via an appearance in the game Second Life.
Having worked in media and telecommunications all my life I just don't see increased communications as being bad. It's becoming different but that is just a consequence of the changing world. It doesn't necessarily mean it's becoming worse.
Under 45? (Score:2)
Look at our current political mess, and think about what age group all those people belong to, and tell me that there is reality in there ANYWHERE!
Who's next? (Score:2)
No, I suppose not.
Who' Bill O'Reilly? (Score:2, Funny)
-gam
Oh noes! The Server! (Score:2)
Reality is dependent on context. (Score:3, Insightful)
Folks who interact a lot with technology are no different -- they simply have a set of experiences and priorities that differs from other groups of people.
As long as it doesn't hurt other people, what's the big deal?
Slashdotted (Score:2)
I guess I'm jaded, but I want confirmation of a quote by ANYBODY before I go off half-cocked and getting all upset over what someone
I'm not divorced from reality (Score:2, Funny)
Swi
Early Days off Bill (Score:2, Funny)
Roger Wilco is my mentor (Score:3, Insightful)
Yuh huh. I'm 26 and I've been playing video games for 20 years. I recently completed a post-graduate program in technical writing (top of my class with high honours) and am employed as a tech writer and sys admin. I also fix PCs on the side.
Video games are the foundation of my full time employment which I enjoy very much. I put up with the drudgery of learning batch files, composing multi-config.sys boot environments, configuring IRQ/DMA/IO ports, memory management, hardware installation, and troubleshooting because the payoff of exciting games was worth the trouble. Games are the gateway to technology because they put a human face on computers.
Does O'Reilly claim that playfighting lion cubs are out of touch with reality? Doesn't play prepare us for real challenges?
Who is Bill O'Reilly and why should I care? (Score:5, Insightful)
From the article he doesn't appear to have an academic or industry credentials on the subject to his name so why has he got any more insight than anyone else on the street?
Surely researchers who study the issue would be a better source of information.
Reality (Score:2)
Why, of course I am removed from reality (Score:2)
I wonder what Bill O'Reilly would think, if everyone defined everything that he does now, in the past or in the future by his actions towards his female staff members. He'd probably accuse such persons of being in the liberal conspiracy against him.
What a goddamn idiot.
Well, half the kids that come into my store.. (Score:3, Insightful)
He's not talking about reality. (Score:2)
If O'Reilly wants to go after jihadists, he ought to do so in Counterstrike. It'll get him a lot closer to the "action" than being a member of the whining 101st chairborne.
During his rant... (Score:5, Insightful)
He has downloadable podcasts for his paid website subscribers. Whoops.
Seriously, O'Rielly is a self absorbed idiot who believes anyone that disagrees with him is 'one of them'.
Who cares? (Score:4, Interesting)
1) He mentioned games
2) He's considered right-wing by the decidedly left-wing crowd here, and that's bad.
If Bill Maher/Michael Moore/Robert Greenwald come out for/against video games, should that make news on here?
--trb
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No, but it probably would. Have you noticed the amount of video game stories coming through? We've hated on Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman just as much for their various gaming agendas, along with a whole bunch of minor judges and political figures from either side of the aisle.
Ratings war (Score:3, Insightful)
The article should read, "Please stop living in a fantasy game reality and watch the fantasy reality cable TV is offering..."
Heed Bill's Warning! (Score:4, Informative)
Generational gap (Score:5, Insightful)
O'Reilly values things like knowing what day it is. Why does he value you that? Because in his lifetime, he couldn't function without that kind of information.
People who can function without this information obviously don't need it. This has nothing to do with "reality" or not. In times gone by, you couldn't function very well if you didn't know the current phase of the moon (because that's how people organized time). That's reality, but I bet old Bill has no idea what phase the moon is, nor does he care. In his own way, he's disconnected from reality, but he made that sacrifice so he could devote his attention to connecting to things that matter to him.
Now, he notices that lots of other people are now connecting to things that don't matter to him. Furthermore, they're not connected to things that matter to him. This is okay because, frankly, they're not him, and he's not them. He has a problem with this, probably for a number of reasons, but I can't help but thing his interpretation is a little bit egocentric.
That's not to say that his criticisms are invalid. It is sometimes hard to get by in life without knowing the date, but if someone can do it, then hey... as long as it works.
The real reason O'Reilly thinks this. (Score:3, Insightful)
And of course, in Bill's head, the technology is to blame, because all of these crazy kids with their iPods and Nintendo DSs and the like got their political info from websites, horrible, liberal, progressive, blogspherical, divorced-from-reality websites.
I guess O'Reilly hasn't heard about reality's well known liberal bias.
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While from being outside of the USA I get the impression that the majority of your press is divorced from reality. CNN and even sometimes the NYT get a lot of things wrong with international news (I can't judge your domestic news) and sometimes even NPR sounds like news-lite.
The Enigma That Is Larry (Score:5, Insightful)
Larry telecommutes. He converses with coworkers via teleconference, and he does his job well. His employers are completely happy with his productivity, and he is happy with his privacy. Larry gets paid by direct deposit. He pays his bills online, and never has a need of services that require him to visit a bank.
When it comes to food, Larry likes variety. He prepares a list from an online product catalog, and four hours later the food arrives, delivered by a local company that specializes in this type of transaction. They also deliver household consumables, such as bathroom supplies. Sometimes Larry wants something ready to eat, though, and of course companies have been delivering pizza, oriental food, indeed most kinds of meals, for decades. He orders clothes, gadgets, and computer equipment online, and the courier companies beat a path to his door.
Larry likes to keep fit, and to that end he has a treadmill, a set of weights and a stair climber, all within his home. He works out six days a week, and never strays from his routine. His health is excellent.
When it comes to socialization, Larry is an online kind of guy. He plays MMORPGs - Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games - and is active in video game player guilds, spending upwards of fifty hours per week interacting with other people in a virtual world. He uses a microphone to talk to players from all over the planet, and is well known in the circles of elite gamers. He even has virtual girlfriends. He is popular with people he has never met in his alternate reality, "real life".
Larry never goes out. He never really physically interacts with anybody. In fact, he hasn't left his home in months.
The question is: can Larry be happy?
For a long time I would have thought that no, Larry couldn't really be happy. After all, man is a social being by nature. From birth, we respond to touch, and to the presence of those around us. We have a need of sex, and possibly of love.
But what is really missing from Larry's life? He has food, shelter, clothing, work, entertainment, physical exercise, a social network, and sex by proxy (through "cybering" with his online girlfriends). He has a full life by his standards.
Many people would look down on his life, but Larry is part of a different scene. He grew up in a world that could be fully realized in isolation, and it is one that most people don't understand. But it is a life that has all of the trappings of a normal one, save for some small variances. Larry may be perfectly suited to his life, and consequently he may be very happy and well-adjusted.
Just because somebody makes lifestyle choices that we don't understand is no reason to conclude that their life is somehow lacking depth or value. The world is changing, and lives are changing with it.
Larry may be normal in the future.
(Taken from my blog, July 18, 2006)
He's half right. (Score:3)
People here on Slashdot seem to overwhelmingly hate this guy, but the problem is that he's partly right. I live in a small university town, and the number of goo-heads is astonishing. The difference between the people I know who are "plugged in" versus those who are not, is quite pronounced.
I've seen guys who can't even stand properly, but who wobble back and forth like little kids with nervous conditions. --People who can barely make a plate of food for themselves, who have severely limited social skills, (and I'm not talking about getting a girlfriend or boyfriend; I'm talking about people who have a hard time even communicating at all; people who just don't seem to be really there when you look them in the eye.). --I've met videogame/anime/ipod junkies who I would have very honestly mistaken for being mentally disabled if they weren't enrolled in normal university courses. I don't know how the heck any of them are going to get jobs or lives after their parents stop paying their tuition bills.
Compared to those kids who avoid video games and television and ipods and such, the difference is night and day.
This is not to say that electronics are bad. I know a lot of very well socialized people who use Instant Messenger. But the trick is that such people are well-balanced. They don't JUST use computers. They also get outdoors and have real-time, face to face relations with real live people, they are active physically and they enjoy the raw adventure of life. Computers are, as many have pointed out, a part of life in today's culture, but like anything taken in isolation, they can seriously, and I mean seriously mess you up. Anybody who claims differently ought to visit a university campus sometime.
The good news is that it's really just a percentage; not everybody is a drooling pod person. People can choose and they do. Addiction can be actively chosen against.
-FL
Re:Word. (Score:5, Insightful)
I note you apparently don't suffer from the same issue. And college graduation rates are up across the board (if not retention percentages).
Re:Word. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Word. (Score:5, Insightful)
Still, I've seen exactly the same 'symptoms' that people ascribe to WoW existing before WoW ever turned up. In the eighties I knew people who neglected work and school for Pacman and Firebird.
When people don't want to do something, whether they admit it or not, they will distract themselves with something/anything, often becoming obsessed to the point of losing touch with reality. I knew one guy who got that way with scratchcards, he went without food to get them.
People don't change that fast, but maddeningly every knew 'fad' is touted as the cause of problems that have existed for millenia.
Re:Word. (Score:4, Insightful)
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If you guys were playing D&D that long back then, then I would have to say you guys-at least somewhat-lost touch of the reality around you.
The reality around them at the time was D&D, so they obviously weren't out of touch.
People have this idea that there is one reality, and all things have to jive with that reality. In actuality, everyone has their own version of reality.
I agree that people need to eat, drink, sleep, and defecate, but that is where our c
No... (Score:2)
Re:No... (Score:5, Funny)
The thing I often find while I grow older is that terms and definitions are having less distinction as time goes one. What's the difference between a gamer and a hardcore gamer or even a casual gamer? You ask 10 people and you'll get 10 different answers.
One persons definition of a hardcore gamer might not be the same as someone else's. I could play WoW 2-3 hours a night and be called hardcore by a person who plays 5 hours a week and 'casual' by someone who plays 8 hours a day and 15 hours on weekends/holidays. Yet, one could define someone with the same term depending not on the criteria of time spent playing but activities done during play. A person who spends 2-3 hours in a raid to get loot could be called 'hardcore' while a person who continues to create new characters and plays them solo all the time, could be considered 'casual'.
I find this is happening on many levels outside of gaming. I was just having a discussion with my fiancee where we where arguing over the same agreement but wanted to call it two different things until we reached a decision to clarify our points by created specific terms to distinguish what we where talking about, since we could not argue points since we were not arguing over the same (but similar) things. Or I could point out former President Bill Clinton's argument that "he did not have sexual relations with that woman" because "sexual relations" was re-defined by him.
Anyone else notice this? This (seemingly) transcendence into generalization or the definition of terms to suit our own points?
Cheers,
Fozzy
Re:Oh puh-lease. (Score:5, Insightful)
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