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Linden Labs Sends "Permit-and-Proceed" Letter

Posted by kdawson on Wed Jan 31, 2007 12:43 AM
from the as-you-were dept.
It's funny. Laugh. Role Playing (Games)
linuxwrangler writes "In sharp contrast to the incidents chronicled at Chilling Effects, Second Life creators Linden Labs have sent the parody site Get a First Life a proceed-and-permit letter. From the letter: 'Linden Lab is well-known for having strict hiring standards, including a requirement for having a sense of humor, from which our lawyers receive no exception. In conclusion, your invitation to submit a cease-and-desist letter is hereby rejected.' The letter also grants permission to use the parody logos."
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  • pun intended (Score:5, Funny)

    by macadamia_harold (947445) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @12:46AM (#17824516)
    (http://www.google.com/)
    Second Life creators Linden Labs have sent the parody site Get a First Life a proceed-and-permit letter.

    In other words, they're virtually going along with the joke.
    • Re:pun intended by DemoFish (Score:1) Wednesday January 31 2007, @05:50AM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.

    • Re:pun intended (Score:4, Insightful)

      by scumdamn (82357) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @10:12AM (#17827650)
      Not to be a noodge, but they've enhanced the joke as far as I'm concerned. I would appreciate Get A First Life without the letter, but the wording in the letter is right on. I bet the legal dept. got with the marketing dept. for that one because the tone is just perfect. Dry, yet actually funny (you've seen companies try too hard I'm sure. This isn't the case.)
      [ Parent ]

  • Its a great game. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Frogbert (589961) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @12:49AM (#17824542)
    I've always said second life is like four times better then half-life.

  • IP and Fair Use (Score:5, Insightful)

    by DeadManCoding (961283) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @12:50AM (#17824548)
    In an age of the MAFIAA and other organizations dedicated to maintaining stupid IP laws and restrictive fair use laws, it's nice to see a company realize that a parody only helps them more. After all, this is free PR, and good PR at that.

    • Re:IP and Fair Use (Score:5, Insightful)

      by lamasquerade (172547) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:20AM (#17824674)
      ...it's nice to see a company realize that a parody only helps them more.

      Indeed, or even that behaving socially (as opposed to the MPAA's sociopathic actions) is more important that whether or not GetAFirstLife's action helps them. Reading the letter I was struck by just how ridiculous the expected behaviour of companies is. We expect them to act ultra-selfishly - and of course this is covered by the focus of a corporation, profit above all else. But to see a company have some humour, and even grant something it doesn't need to (possibly for a long term profit motive as suggested by parent, but also possibly just because it can and it's nice) shows that the all-profiting, knee jerk bullshit that we are used to is not at all necessary.

      [ Parent ]
    • Re:IP and Fair Use by RexRhino (Score:2) Wednesday January 31 2007, @05:24PM

  • depressing (Score:5, Funny)

    by qw0ntum (831414) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @12:51AM (#17824554)
    (Last Journal: Wednesday December 01 2004, @09:12PM)
    How depressing is it that this type of thing would only happen in an online world? I think if someone did this to Disney they would send Mickey to come eat you or something.

  • Yay linden labs (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ocelotbob (173602) <ocelot&ocelotbob,org> on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:01AM (#17824580)
    (http://www.ocelotbob.org/)
    Now if only other people could be so lenient towards copyright [livejournal.com]...
    • Re:Yay linden labs by Kelz (Score:2) Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:17AM

    • Re:Yay linden labs (Score:5, Informative)

      by Boogaroo (604901) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:35AM (#17824758)
      (http://www.damppaw.com/)
      Copyright and trademark are different situations. To protect your trademark(logo, company name, etc) you MUST take action to protect it. If you ignore it, you may lose your trademark protection. If you license/permit the usage to a group, this is seen as a way to protect your trademark since you've considered the usage and allowed the parties to use the trademark.

      If they did nothing at all, that would cause potential problems. Their response is both classy, and covers their ass.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Yay linden labs by ocelotbob (Score:1) Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:56AM

        • Re:Yay linden labs (Score:5, Informative)

          by bersl2 (689221) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @02:33AM (#17824990)
          (Last Journal: Tuesday September 25, @04:26AM)
          Trademark law (at least, the case law) doesn't work like that.

          If you do not take steps to protect your trademark by either threatening to sue or---apparently, because I've never seen it done like this until now---granting permission, then if someone does end up violating your trademark, no matter how flagrantly, they can argue (and successfully at that) that the mark has been diluted and is therefore invalid. You snooze, you lose.

          Interestingly, a recent instance of this happening was when Sega Europe fired off a nastygram [ytmnd.com] to YTMND [ytmnd.com] regarding an instance of [ahem] unsavory treatment [link NSFW] [ytmnd.com] of a certain trademarked character. Sega can't do anything right these days. If you read the C&D, you can tell it's pure BS, but it's this aspect of trademark law (i.e., needing to defend marks in such an asshatterous manner) that gets it put on my personal proscription list, along with copyright and patent.
          [ Parent ]

  • The Obvious Response... (Score:5, Funny)

    by darkonc (47285) <stephen_samuel.bcgreen@com> on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:19AM (#17824666)
    (http://bcgreen.com/~samuel | Last Journal: Friday April 30 2004, @02:42PM)
    The Get A First Life people need to find a lawyer to slam Linden Labs for denying him work, and suggesting that he could get an injunction against the 'proceed and permit' letter under `restraint of trade` laws.

  • Isn't it sad ... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gone_bush (578354) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:19AM (#17824672)
    that we are commenting on the application of common sense.

  • Lighten up people, it's a joke (Score:5, Funny)

    by melikamp (631205) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:44AM (#17824802)
    (http://www.melikamp.net/ | Last Journal: Sunday January 28 2007, @05:24PM)

    What's with all the lawyer bashing and paranoia? These guys are clearly making fun of him. Just because the person is a lawyer, doesn't mean he is out to rip you off. There are plenty of good lawyers around. In fact, most lawyers wouldn't do something unethical just because it pays so handsomely well.

    Because most lawyers are dead.

    Ah, haha, I just couldn't resist...

  • brilliant (Score:3, Insightful)

    by illuminatedwax (537131) <stdrange.alumni@uchicago@edu> on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:44AM (#17824806)
    (Last Journal: Thursday September 21 2006, @07:20AM)
    Trademarks need to be fought for, otherwise they are useless. This is actually IMHO a very brilliant move by Linden to maintain their hold on their trademarks without being a complete asshole about it.
    • Re:brilliant by supersat (Score:3) Wednesday January 31 2007, @02:39AM

  • Great PR (Score:1)

    by BuR4N (512430) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:50AM (#17824830)
    (http://www.intellipool.se/ | Last Journal: Wednesday January 31 2007, @03:49PM)
    How ever came up with the respons at Linden Labs should get a bonus, turing something that would have been negative news into something both funny, positive and yet still manage to defened their tradmark.

  • About the adds on the site (Score:1, Informative)

    by wellingj (1030460) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:58AM (#17824862)
    Did any one else see the google adds for Second Life on the First Life web site?
    Did that happen before or after the letter?

  • Good law, not just good humour (Score:5, Insightful)

    by john-da-luthrun (876866) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @02:02AM (#17824880)

    This is actually quite smart from a legal point of view. Once Second Life had decided not to go down the road of trying to sue the parody site into oblivion - a wise decision given the PR meltdown such cases tend to cause - it then had a choice.

    If it ignored the parody site, that could dilute or otherwise weaken its trade mark rights, making it harder to take action against truly problematic infringement in future. However, by sending a "permit-and-proceed" letter, it not only gets some positive PR for taking a pragmatic and humorous approach - it also transforms the parody site from a trademark-diluting independent endeavour into something that is, in effect, licensed by Second Life. This means they can still be seen to have asserted their trade mark rights rather than allowing the parody site to continue without any intervention at all.

    A similar position can arise in relation to land, at least under English law. If someone encroaches on your land for a sufficiently long period of time (12+ years) and you do nothing about it one way or another, you can lose your rights in the land (many people living near railway lines have extended their gardens to the edge of the line by these means). However, if you say to the encroacher, "Oh, that's fine, carry on, I don't mind, you have my permission", then that turns it into a licence, and they cannot then claim "adverse possession" against you later.

  • Lawyers and Sense of Humor? (Score:5, Funny)

    by JRHelgeson (576325) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @02:11AM (#17824912)
    (http://www.appiant.com/ | Last Journal: Sunday September 21 2003, @02:10PM)
    Corporations with a sense of humor, and lawyers with common sense? Wow: Second Life really is a fantasy world.

  • Anything is better... (Score:2, Funny)

    by revolu7ion (994315) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @02:13AM (#17824918)
    (http://www.quickflix.com.au/)
    ...than /. stories about flying genitalia

  • I've always liked the lindens (Score:2, Interesting)

    by OfficeSubmarine (1031930) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @03:44AM (#17825234)
    Despite never being able to quite get myself into a frame of mind where I'd enjoy second life, I've always liked the management. They've always seemed oddly sane, given not only the industry, but the fringe subset they've founded.

  • Smart lawyers and dim lawyers (Score:2)

    by Flying pig (925874) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @04:04AM (#17825290)
    The letter (and some of the resulting comments) remind me that there are dim lawyers, smart lawyers, and truly smart lawyers. Linden Labs can obviously afford truly smart lawyers.

    Remember, a lawyer is paid to advise you on your legal interests. A merely smart lawyer knows what plays well in court. A truly smart lawyer knows that public opinion is also a court, and that the best interests of the client involve playing well there as well. The RIAA merely has smart lawyers; they are trying to spread compliance through fear but generate reams of bad press in the process. At the other end of the scale, I once heard of a case in which another US industry body was trying to prevent a foreign firm gaining a foothold by bending a number of rules. A truly smart firm of lawyers reviewed the evidence and sent out a single letter (which I have seen) which caused the sudden collapse of the opposition. It spelled out the evidence, the laws they believed had been broken, the action they could take, and the resulting publicity. My belief is that where there is a real case, this is usually what happens.

  • Secondlife.com down?! (Score:2)

    by nmg196 (184961) * on Wednesday January 31 2007, @06:25AM (#17825926)
    Is it just me or is secondlife.com slashdotted or otherwise down? It's not even linked to from the article but we can't get to it from here.

  • An ancient historical precedent... (Score:2)

    by Captain Sarcastic (109765) * on Wednesday January 31 2007, @09:27AM (#17827086)
    Aristophanes wrote a play titled "The Clouds," in which he lambasted the state of education in ancient Athens. In the process, he also lampooned Socrates, who was depicted as one of the corrupters of youth... even though public opinion at the time considered him no such thing.

    Socrates attended the production of the play... and laughed as uproariously as anyone else at his on-stage caricature.

    Mind you, he might not have had the same remedies available as today had he been thoroughly offended by the play, but the big thing was that the concept of "grin and bear it" was known then. Too bad it seems to be unfashionable these days.

  • Am I the only one who suspects this is marketing? (Score:2)

    by elrous0 (869638) * on Wednesday January 31 2007, @10:16AM (#17827706)
    The "offending" sight seems awfully slim. I get the sense that this whole exchange might be a bit of a publicity ploy to promote Second Life.

    -Eric

  • surprising! (Score:1)

    by Warshadow (132109) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @03:33PM (#17832168)
    Wow, it's nice to see a company not scream, "we're going to sue!" When someone else does a parody of them. Kudos to Linden Labs for this.

  • Step 2. (Score:2)

    by Kaenneth (82978) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @04:30PM (#17833256)
    (http://portal2portal.com/ | Last Journal: Monday June 04, @08:46PM)
    Step 2: Don't be evil.

  • Re:Dangerous precedent being set (Score:5, Funny)

    by deft (253558) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:05AM (#17824604)
    (http://www.deftracing.com/)
    something tells me you wouldnt be hired where they require the sense of humor.
    [ Parent ]
    • Re:Dangerous precedent being set by toupsie (Score:1) Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:17AM

    • Re:Dangerous precedent being set (Score:5, Funny)

      by mrchaotica (681592) * <<mrchaotica> <at> <yahoo.com>> on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:35AM (#17824756)

      Maybe so, but he's got a point. The law doesn't have a sense of humor, so lawyers can't really afford to have on either.

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Dangerous precedent being set by sineltor (Score:1) Wednesday January 31 2007, @04:44AM

      • Re:Dangerous precedent being set (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Tom (822) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @07:50AM (#17826242)
        (http://web.lemuria.org/)
        The law does have quite a bit of humour, you just have to be a lawyer or someone with legal training to appreciate it.

        For example, a workers law here in Germany requires the top boss to talk to the elected workers' council at least once a month. Let me skip the why and boring details. One company persistently rejected to even acknowledge that elected body even existed, much less deal with them.

        So one court case later, the judgement was to take the offenders into custody. It's called "Beugehaft" in Germany, the idea being that for minor crimes where fines aren't the proper punishment because what you want is someone to do something, you take him into custody until he says "ok, ok". Now here's the joke: The judgement called for this punishment to be levied on the entire board of directors, and immediately due to the danger of them fleeing. The people who thought they were above it all were in immediate danger of being put behind bars within the hour. And sure, they could call for revision, but they'd still be taken from their office by police and spend at least one night in jail.
        A bunch of frentic phonecalls later, the CEO had binding instructions to cooperate fully with the workers council.

        Lawyers laugh as much as anyone. It's just that most of their jokes are as puzzling to us as C++ jokes are to your grandmother.
        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Dangerous precedent being set by Eivind (Score:2) Wednesday January 31 2007, @10:00AM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.

  • Re:Dangerous precedent being set (Score:4, Informative)

    by delirium of disorder (701392) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:09AM (#17824628)
    (http://unixclan.no-ip.org/ | Last Journal: Wednesday December 27 2006, @12:59PM)
    "FU and the virtual horse you rode in on" to Linden Labs in regards to this letter -- especially the final sentence This license may be modified, addended, or revoked at any time by Linden Lab in its sole discretion.

    Lighten up, it's a joke!
    [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.

  • Re:Dangerous precedent being set (Score:5, Informative)

    by creysoft (856713) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:18AM (#17824662)
    They acknowledge First Life's inherent right to parody several times, even jokingly stated that they were insulted by the idea that their lawyers WOULDN'T recognize such a right. The only "license" here is a license for the derivative trademark, which they note "may require a license." Notice they didn't say "does require a license." It's more, "Hey, we think this probably falls under fair use. But just in case it doesn't, and anyone ever hassles you about it, here's a license saying you can use it anyway."

    The final clause is standard CYA language. If, for example, First Life started using their derivative logo to do something damaging to Second Life's reputation, Second Life's lawyers may look into it, and if, in fact, the logo is infringing, they may revoke the license. Surely you can't reasonably expect them to grant them a perpetual, non-revokable license to do anything they want with a very slightly modified logo?

    The whole thing's basically a joke anyway, to let everyone know that they know about First Life, and are 100% OK with it. It's also a cheap jab at companies with less sense of humor.
    [ Parent ]

  • Re:Dangerous precedent being set (Score:2)

    by suv4x4 (956391) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:27AM (#17824720)
    The parody site operator of getafirstlife.com should reject this letter immediately. How many companies in the future will start referring to this action as a basis to stop "fair use"? i.e., "Hey, we didn't provide you with a proceed-and-permit letter.

    You should get to know Jack Thompson. My gut tells me you'll do incredible things together.
    [ Parent ]

  • Re:Dangerous precedent being set (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Falladir (1026636) <kingfalladir@yahoo.com> on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:32AM (#17824740)
    "companies in the future will start referring to this action"

    I'm no lawyer, but I aren't precedents set by courts? The actions of a company's legal team have no effect on the status quo.
    [ Parent ]
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.

  • Re:Dangerous precedent being set (Score:3, Informative)

    by syousef (465911) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:43AM (#17824800)
    Actually they'd be right to ignore it. If they accept it or reject or respond in any way they legitimise it. In any case being granted permission does not set a precedent that you MUST be granted permission. If my boss tells me I can go to the doctor if I'm seriously ill and need urgent medical attention it does not mean that if he doesn't give permission the next time I'm ill that I can't go. No license needed to be granted here. I believe parody is protected under US laws, though I'm not a US citizen and I honestly don't know the detail.

    [ Parent ]

  • Re:Dangerous precedent being set (Score:5, Insightful)

    by anagama (611277) <`thepotter' `at' `yahoo.com'> on Wednesday January 31 2007, @01:51AM (#17824838)
    (http://clintonhawk.net/)

    The parody site operator of getafirstlife.com should reject this letter immediately. How many companies in the future will start referring to this action as a basis to stop "fair use"?
    Wow. Layoff the paranoia pipe a bit. Everyone knows that parody is OK. It has been for years. Companies have been parodied on Saturday Night Live since the stoner age. If they were gonna get the fair use provisions relating to parody changed, they would have done it already.

    Secondly, if we want companies to be good citizens and respectful of individual's rights, should not also individuals respect companies when the company does something right? I do. I went to second life from the first life page and signed up for an account. Who woulda thought they actually have a linux version (alpha) for the game?

    What I see is a company that is not full of pricks, plus they supply a linux version of the game. Isn't that what (we linux users at least) have been saying would be great? I say that's worthy of my support so I flipped them a few bucks.
    [ Parent ]

  • Re:Taken out of context (Score:5, Informative)

    by Technician (215283) on Wednesday January 31 2007, @02:26AM (#17824972)
    This license may be modified, addended, or revoked at any time by Linden Lab in its sole discretion.


    This was taken out of context. It simply is in refrence to the online store selling items with the modified logo. If the site creator got out of line with the products with the modified logo, they simply reserve the right to revoke the license to use the logo. The fact they granted a license to use the mofified logo is without fees or royalty payments is very gracious.

    Try using the Mickey Mouse logo in a modified form on your website in a paradoy and sell products with the logo. I doubt the Disney lawyers have a sense of humor regarding selling products with a Mickey logo.
    [ Parent ]
  • 6 replies beneath your current threshold.

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