The Elite's Sour Side

Now that the news about Microsoft's Elite has had a chance to set in, there are a few objections being raised by commentators. That 120 gig hard drive (the really expensive one) is going to come pre-loaded with content; all well and good, but the content transfer cable and software is a bit odd. Additionally, there are serious objections being raised over the frustrations of early adopters. Despite the easy dismissal out of hand heard on Major Nelson's Wednesday podcast, it's not as easy for early 360 buyers to roll with the changes. "Current Xbox 360 owners, who can purchase a separate 120-gigabyte hard drive at a cost of $179, appear to be getting a raw deal. Not only are these early adopters stuck with an older model of the console that offers less in the way of high-definition support, but factor in the cost of a current premium Xbox 360 ($399) and the price of the larger hard drive and the figure is close to $600 dollars, far exceeding the Elite's retail price, due to be $479."

Nothing says you 3 your customers

Like making sure they regret buying your product when they did.

Re:Nothing says you 3 your customers

Like making sure they regret buying your product when they did.

Yeah, because nobody could have predicted electronics to get better/faster/cheaper over the past year and a half.

Re:Nothing says you 3 your customers

That's why people buy consoles instead of computers. These things are supposed to be a constant. Microsoft more than Sony or Nintendo (but Sony has it's multi-SKUs as well) are trying to warp the console business into an evolving world like PC gaming. The reason console games are as bug free (mostly) is that they are in a controlled environment. They don't have to worry about branch code for different hardware. Evolving your console is possibly the worst thing you could do. Developers than have to determine the correct system and plan for it. Even a difference like the Core/Premium XBox360 and one version not having a hard drive is a BIG mistake in terms of consoles. Twenty vs. Sixty Gig drives doesn't really matter all that much. You likely not going to use all that space, but you don't have to check if the hard drive exists and run different caching code.

Price Drop

Isn't this another way of announcing a price drop? That's happened before. Probably sweetens the deal and improves their positioning against the Wii and PS3.

Early Adopters?

So, the system has been out for like 1.5 years... The "Early Adopter" phase has come and gone. I picked one up last April and I wasn't an early adopter -then-. People are just being whiny.

Re:Early Adopters?

Seriously. For just about every piece of electronics gear that I've ever bought, the company I bought it from came out with a better model at a different price point after a while. What is there to bitch about here?

ok, so...

Current Xbox 360 owners, who can purchase a separate 120-gigabyte hard drive at a cost of $179, appear to be getting a raw deal. Not only are these early adopters stuck with an older model of the console

So do the same complaints apply to Apple, when they release a new revision of the ipod every 12 months? What about Dell, when they release a new computer?

Are these people completely unfamiliar with the concept of purchasing goods and services?

Does Ford owe you a coupon because the new Taurus comes with more trunk space, which your year-old model lacks? Give me a break.

Elite's true sour side..

.. is those bloody Thargoids. I don't want to turn on my console only to find myself transported into witch space surrounded by a billon octgonal spaceships. This stinks of sloppy design.

Early adaptor syndrome

I for one would be pissed if I had a 360 and heard about this. I bought the DS right when it came out, and I've felt like an idiot since the DS lite came out.

As it is, this might be a great time to pick up a 360 Premium (or whatever the current 'best' model is) on the cheap. I don't want/need HDMI, as I don't plan on buying a 1080p TV any time soon, and I'll probably never fill the hard drive.

This also might be a ploy by MS to finally get all of the buggy first-run 360's off the shelves. Hopefully the Elite won't have the same drive issues the current ones do.

The Elite is a robbery

I am so mad at Microsoft for improving their product. The existing XBox 360 models are now useless. Sure, they play the same games the same way, but they are now 30% less fun because I know I don't have the best SKU.

The Beginning of the End?

This is what i've been afraid of for the last several years.

Several Years ago, the main reasoning behind buying/owning a console (aside from exclusives) was that consoles are universally consistent, so you don't have to mess with drivers, memory, or any other variance. A Playstation is a Playstation, and if it works on one playstation it should work on all playstations.

As consoles become more "computer-like", and with Microsoft already in their planned obsolence mindset of Windows, they're invalidating this entire argument by releasing significant "upgrades" to their existing platforms. While it seems innocent enough, how long will it be before a game comes out that requires the 120G drive? How long before they start releasing memory upgrades, HDMI upgrades (which they're already talking about), and more? Each time they're creating something new and eventually people will have to upgrade just to stay current, just like with current PC's.

The way I see it, It could go either way:
1) The upgrades become increasingly difficult to ignore (mandatory for new games) requiring people to upgrade, making more $$ for Microsoft (who hopefully is learning that OS design isn't all that profitable anymore) and they slowly convert the XBox into a "Family PC".
2) The upgrades start to drive away consumers as they find their console "too old" to play the latest Halo, and simply walk away.

Re:The Beginning of the End?

"Each time they're creating something new and eventually people will have to upgrade just to stay current, just like with current PC's."

Upgrades are optional. If you like the same PC games, no need to upgrade your hardware. If you can handle lower resolutions and detail, many new PC games are perfectly playable on non-cutting-edge hardware. If you want it all, though, you want it all. And that costs. No different from anything else in the world.

In the interest of calling a spade a spade:
The NES had "optional" upgrades. These Elite features are optional: nothing more. If there was a "penultimate NES", it would include a Zapper, R.O.B., Action Pad, NES Satellite, and maybe other things I'm forgetting. Remember, that system also sold in different level "trims". Hell, the overwhelming majority of NES titles had additional memory banking hardware in each cartridge to enable the game to access more than 64K of memory.

Genesis: Penultimate would have: Genesis, Master System adapter, Sega CD, 32X.

The N64 came the closest to a "required" upgrade, that 8M memory upgrade that sat right there in front of the cartridge port. Even then, most games didn't need it, let alone used it, and those that did were clearly marked.

In the end, upgrades will have value based on applications. If you want downloadable content and want your games to run better by caching content on the HD, then get a 360 with a HD. If you've got more time than money and can live without demos, forget it. If there ever ARE games that require optional equipment, Microsoft would do well to make sure it's VERY obvious they need it.

Not sure why there is so much...

crying about this? I just bought my 360 like 2.5 weeks ago but this doesn't bother me. The current Premium meets my gaming needs (and has plenty of hard drive space) and my Toshiba HD-DVD player and cable box handles the rest (and tie up both my HDMI ports). It is an option for new Xbox customers and by no means invalidates your current purchase.

This strikes me as more about being obsessed with always having the latest and greatest than a real issue, grow up...

Lessons Learned

Here's what consumers need to learn:
* Products get updated all the time.
The benefits of "buy now" versus "buy later" is the time between now and later in which you will own and enjoy your product. I remember buying Final Fantasy X for $55 and then seeing it in the Greatest Hits bin for $15 a year or two later. If you cry about it and the companies want to make you feel better, they won't do it by releasing something at a medium price like $35 forever, they'll do it by releasing it at the full $55 and never dropping MSRP. (At least those who got the 'tard pack can upgrade to a hard drive for the next difference in the price difference of Core versus Elite. It's not GREAT, but it's not a slap in the face, either.)

* What's top dog now won't be top dog later.
PC gamers have already figured this out. The fact that there are even "generations" of gaming consoles should have taught you this applies in the console world as well.

Here's what console companies need to learn:
* Newer, more premium products need to push existing prices down.
While it makes better sense for your bottom line, your base gets green with envy instead of less green by giving you money. Nintendo figured this one out already.

* Think about upgrade capacity.
Wouldn't it have been neat, instead, if you could take your existing 360 hard drive and piggy-back it to the new hard drive (like a daughterboard) and the drives would automatically move your contents and digital signatures to the new one and restore your old one to factory fresh? When I bought a new cell phone I set my old one to send all my contacts via infra red and set my new one to receive and it was quite nice to get it all done without a whole lot of pain. Nintendo tripped up on this with the WiFi being matched from the DS game to your DS's MAC / serial number, but they got it together on the Wii by using a standard and portable SD card for data transfer.

That said, with the said problems, if the Elite 360 is targeted for holdouts who don't already have a 360, it fails. I don't have a 360 but I've been waiting for lower noise/power consumption 65nm, HD-DVD, bigger HD, and HDMI and Elite represents only 1/2 of that. Oh, plus BLACK. Wee. Here's hoping for a Super Elite come Christmas for $399. ;)

What about re-authorizing downloaded content?

As many Xbox 360 owners know, when you purchase something from Marketplace, it gets authorized to your gamertag and your console (not the hard drive). This means that if you replace the console but keep the hard drive, you'll need to be logged into Xbox Live to use any of that purchased content. Microsoft acknowledges the problem but hasn't provided a convenient solution for everyone yet.

Does anyone know what happens to people who have an Xbox 360, buy the Elite, and transfer the content from the old drive to the new? Does the content get re-authorized? If so, this would be a way for people to replace their broken Xbox 360s and still have all their content work offline.

NEWS FLASH! Early Adopters pay more!

Seriously, this is news? People who are early adopters of tech pay more than the people who wait 6-12 months to buy similar tech.

Move along, nothing to see here...

You think *this* is bad?

Just think how bad the early adopters of the PS3 must feel when they see that new models got rid of that annoying backward compatibility feature. Man, those people must be steamed.

The Real Raw Deal: Canada

If Elite comes to Canada (which they probably will) it'll be almost a scam-level bad purchase. You see, the main reason to have the big hard drive is to download video.

But, 99% of the actual video marketplace is not available in Canada.

So we'd be paying $100 basically for an HDMI port and a coat of paint.

What's the big deal?

I have over 2TB of hard drive space on my PC and I am running low on free space, yet the 20GB hard drive on my 360 is more than I will ever need. I download game demos. I picked up the free South Park episode. And I still have 17GB free. 120GB on a 360? Come on. What are you gonna do with that? That's more than the average schmo has on their entire PC.

Elite HDMI version?

Does the Elite HDMI connection support the HDMI 1.3 spec (wider bit depth for displays)?

The reason why there is a backlash

Yamauchi (paraphrasing) has said, "What many companies do not understand about the video game business is that the software is the product, not the hardware. People buy the hardware only to get to the software." This solves the mystery as to why people moan and complain of new hardware (or buying more expensive hardware) but they were not complaining at all buying $70 games in the 16-bit generation. The amount of money spent on software totally eclipses what is spent on hardware with multiple $50 (and now $60) products. Just buying four games puts you to $200!

The image of the games industry is that the consoles are the main product with software revolving around it. Rather, it is the other way around. It is no coincidence that people always complain about the hardware (since it drains entertainment dollars they would rather pay for games).

Look at the pattern of outcry:

-PS3 announced at $599
-Multiple versions of Nintendo handhelds.
-GBA dongle thing to listen to headphones.
-Purchasing link cables and additional GBAs to play 'linked' Gamecube games.
-Xbox 360 failure rates
-Purchasing all the Wii controllers (and there are many!).
-16-bit (and earlier) gamers complaining how today's consoles don't come with a bundled game like they used to.

No one likes spending entertainment dollars on hardware (since you cannot play the hardware). Judging from sales results, no one is buying a PS3 or Xbox 360 based on its non-game functions of the hardware. The hardware sales revolve around the software sales instead of the other way around. Video games are about the software experience, not the hardware experience.

Anyone remember the very popular IBM mainframe called the 360? It was released in multiple versions and was structured that someone would buy a cheaper version and upgrade if their needs warranted it. This appears to be exactly what Microsoft intends. But why on Earth is Microsoft following the IBM mainframe model for their living room top box?

(Also, when the Wii launched everyone said it would have multiple versions especially a HD capable Wii in the near future. Yet, ironically, the consoles coming out with multiple versions are the Xbox 360 and the PS3 [who is rumored to have its own elite model coming soon as well].)

We all know the drill

Yes this is probably redundant, but we all know as electronics consumers that as soon as we plunk down our hard earned plastic, we've just purchased something that is already obsolete. It's the nature of the beast. I'll continue to occasionally play my 360 games the same way I occasionally play my 1st gen XBOX games and I'll eventually be occasionally playing Elite games and reading about how MS is coming out with the "Most Advanced Gaming System Ever Imagined!" and eventually I'll occasionally be playing games on that thing as well. As long as we are still breathing we will be playing on yesterday's technology. Besides, they keep adding inputs to our super duper TVs that will all be obsolete when laser-on-a-chip TVs come out at the end of the year and what do you think all those inputs are for?

Since when ... ?

.. did Slashdot become Pro-Microsoft ? Don't tell me I have to shop elsewhere for my daily Microsoft bashing ? :(

I laugh about all who thought that MS was in the game business NOT to rape you :) *puts anti-xbot flamesuit on* This will probably get me a Flamebait mod, bah, I have Karma left :p

Oh give me a break...

Not only are these early adopters stuck with an older model of the console

Oh come on... There's a reason early adopters are called early adopters. They're the beta testers of released products. In the market of today, you can't buy a product when it's first released and not expect it to be outdated in a year or two. Look at the computer hardware industry for cryin' out loud. "The Elite's Sour Side?" More like "The way hardware sales works."

Xbox 360 is hurting their loyal fans

I beleive that Microsoft is really sticking it to their loyal XBox 360 fans more than anything. They have been known to always provide current owners the ability to add on anything that is created after the release of the console. That is what I liked so much about Microsoft rather than Sony is that they did't force you to buy a 500 dollar product like PS3. Now out of no where they create a new "elite system" that doesn't allow current console owners the ability to upgrade. Other than the harddrive, which i'd rather buy a cheaper usb one, there is no way that a current console owner will be able to experience the capabilites of HDMI without buying the new console. I thought that the main idea of the console was that you wouldn't have to upgrade, like you did with the PC. I am very fustrated with this, and I am hoping they can find a way to allow 360 pro console owners the ability to experience the advanced audio and video. If they don't I think people will just start going out and buying a PS3 instead because now this new elite version is almost just as much money.

Re:mod

Not currently possible, and much more difficult than it was for the Xbox and the PS2. Advancements and discoveries are made all the time, but don't expect anything like that to ever happen on the 360. We'll be very lucky if it does.