Chinese Govt Limits Kids to 3hrs of Online Gaming 299
1MC writes "The Chinese govt is requiring game houses to modify MMOG's to restrict under 18 users to 3 hours "productive" gameplay per day. This "anti-addiction" software must be in place within 4 months, with games not compliant by July 15 liable to be shut down in China. Net9, Shanda and NetEase will be moving to comply with the government regulations. Users will have to register with their real names and Chinese identity card numbers to be allowed access to the games."
I disagree (Score:5, Funny)
I'd rather say, thank-god-i'm-not-in-china!
thank-god-they-got-something-right (Score:2, Insightful)
These sad souls need guidance, rehab, a life, something outside the warm cocoon of fat rolls and 3d dwarf landscapes.
Re:thank-god-they-got-something-right (Score:4, Interesting)
On the contrary, one ought to decide for himself if he wants to live in the ``cocoon of fat rolls and 3d dwarf landscapes.'' Through observation, it has been noticed that children of a certain age are unable to make this decision for themselves (though, I must say that 18 is far too old to be considered the time one becomes an adult. It should be 16, in my opinion), it is the duty of parents to make this decision. Never the government. I would much rather see my children spending 24 hours a day playing silly games than be regulated in those matters by the state.
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I think the distinction between "government" and "family" is actually a little artificial. In some sense, the family is the smallest unit of government, to which certain tasks are delegated. This is definitely the theory of many mid-century social theorists, including Althusser.
Re:thank-god-they-got-something-right (Score:5, Insightful)
I think this is one of the most wrong things I've ever read.
A parent has a direct compelling desire to protect and nurture his/her child. The parent has intimate knowledge and experience of that child's unique requirements. The parent has a genetic drive to insure the child's welfare. I can tell you as a parent that this drive is powerful and in the same realm as the drive for food and shelter. I feel the need to care for my child the same way I feel the need to eat.
The "government" is not a single entity, but the resultant vector of millions of competing agendas and forces. As such it doesn't "care" for any child and it doesn't have knowledge of any child. It can only set broad policies that hopefully indirectly cause "good" but often cause "bad" in it's pursuit of particular agendas.
Corporations and Governments are not people. They are not living entities, although we often treat them as such legally.
To say the "government" can care for a child is simply incorrect. A teacher, a nanny, a social worker, a lawyer and a congressman may be affecting a child, but there is no such person as "the government".
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I should say "the state" rather than "government," really, to be more precise. The family is the smallest unit of the state - it has expectations delegated to it and responsibilities assigned to it. That there is an emotional element is not at issue: many people in
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Lemmy, as I mentioned in a different sub-thread, it is pointless to argue about the current state of events; let's, rather, discuss ideals.
The government's incentive for children's well-being is entirely against the incentives of the parent, and, most importantly, of the child himself. The government needs money, which it gains from taxes. Taxes it gets from citizens, and to attract citizens, among other things, it needs a high educational rating. Thus, the government wants kids to do well on tests. The p
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I agree that the government cannot care for a child - individuals care for children. The exact same thing can be said of a family. Children don't fare well i
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Those children should be adopted by families or sent to private orphanages.
Whether or not the family is considered a unit of government is not very relevant in itself. It shouldn't be considered a unit of government, for the
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Parents are expected - legally - to make sure their children receive an adequate education, are generally care for, are kept out of inappropriate places, etc. Parents who fail to do these things will lose their children and possibly face criminal charges.
I'm not necessarily defending this policy on the part of China, mind you. Simp
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Lemmy, you may have noticed that my arguments were not a reflection of the current state of events, but rather the ideal state of events.
I do not think that parents should make education mandatory, especially in terms of attendance to schools. It may be the parent's responsibility that children are not beaten, deprived of food, etc. but any regulation beyond a minimum on testing is superfluous, in my opinion. If a test is repeatedly failed, then the parents should be fined, but not deprived of children. T
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If Bush is convincing people that he is doing the Lord's work, then he can do that not because they are religious, but because they are uneducated. Wars are inherently against religion. In fact, the only time that religion is in the government's best interest is when the government is the deity, such as Ancient Egypt and Rome. Thankfully, that is no longer the case in modern times.
Sure, occasionally, religion helps the government escape some blame (e.g. Katrina was the work of God, and its damage not our
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You made me puke a little bit.
Re:thank-god-they-got-something-right (Score:5, Interesting)
Without commenting on your arrogant assertion that you know how someone else should live their live, this rises up a rather interesting point: why does the Chinese government want children to spend their time in reality rather than virtual reality ? After all, people playing WoW are far less likely to demand freedom or engage in other activities antithethical to the Chinese political system than people spending their time speaking with each other and perhaps coming up with dangerous ideas lie freedom from censorship. Warm cocoon makes people drowsy, cold reality shocks them wide awake. The former makes it far easier for the Chinese government to stay in power than the latter.
Is this a case of a tyrant starting to believe his own lies about his benevolence, or does the Chinese government just have absolute confidence in their iron fist ?
Re:thank-god-they-got-something-right (Score:4, Insightful)
You know, not every government decision has to be associated with suppression and regime.
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The kid is in the parent's custody, and thus they need to decide whether or not the kids should play games. If not, it is not the government's place to make the call.
Trust me, regulation of the state is bad, always.
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Re:Sad News, Don Imus dead at 83 (Score:4, Insightful)
Um, poverty is a real culture. I grew up with a single mom that probably messed with drugs a bit more than she should have. Then I messed around with drugs more than I should have. I grew up in poverty and through a lot of hard work I've gotten a college education and so has my sister. The fact that we are all where we are today doesn't for an instant mean that we can't identify with music that targets those living in a "self perpetuating cycle of self-inflicted poverty and crime". The culture of poverty even the culture of crime is about improving your situation. I know it may not seem like it from the outside looking in, but drug addiction and crime are both things that many people do in order to improve their situation if only for a short time. Eating is better than not, getting high is better than jumping off a bridge. Other issues are highly emotional, it's hard when a child or relative dies because you cannot afford proper medical treatment, it's hard when someone becomes an alcoholic rather than a moderate drinker, it's hard when your parents argue every night because of bills, it's hard for people who are black and cannot afford a train ticket in order to look for work. You sit on a high horse claiming that this music contributes to the problem, when you do this you take focus away from the real problems, like drug addiction, lack of education, lack of jobs and a general lack of hope a lot kids face every day. You also apply a double standard when you don't say the same of art like Tom Sawyer, Gangs of New York, and many other stories, movies and songs that stretch back to the begining of man.
Re:Guns don't kill people, niggers kill people. (Score:5, Insightful)
I would imagine... (Score:5, Interesting)
Parents (or kids?) going to jail because junior wanted to play WoW for more than 3 hours a day and faked ID?
China is repressive (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course I think their system will collapse in a few years because of this anyway, but it is likely to stave off the inevitable for a little while at least.
Re:China is repressive (Score:4, Insightful)
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The thing china is doing wrong is that they are trying to stomp out subversive groups without addressing the underlying issues or at least swinging popular opinion against subversive groups. They need to cause their own terrorist attack (from XYZ subversive group in china) so that they can have public opinion behind the government again.
Also... (Score:3, Insightful)
It helps a lot that in many cases, the subversive groups are fringe crazies.
Re:Also... (Score:5, Funny)
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The vast majority of people aren't going to risk their new improving lifestyles for the sake of extra hours gaming for the kids, or even free speech. I just hope a nut-job doesn't find his way into power.
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Good working conditions actually give people inspiration to try to change their government, because now that they don't struggle to put food on the table every day they can spend time thinking about political issues.
Re:China is repressive (Score:4, Insightful)
If you're looking at philosophical movements among the wealthy, sure. Such activities require financial independence. But as for mass political movements, economic dissatisfaction is almost always required.
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Oh no! (Score:5, Interesting)
Can't they just restrict their manufacturing to 3 hours a day too?
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Supply, demand. Attempting to get closer b
I wish US players had to do this... (Score:4, Interesting)
...so that under-18 players could be restricted to certain servers, and the rest of us could play in peace, basking in the huge decrease in leetspeek, ninja looters, griefers & beggars.
Seriously though, this whole "nanny state" the Chinese have going over there just cracks me up. I wonder if one can "bank" one's hours by not playing for a few days, in order to have enough time to join an end-game raid without worrying about one's big-brother software logging you off at an inopportune time.
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Having been intelligent and literate at 14, and having met people age 30 with the maturity of a toddler, I know there are exceptions on both sides. With the anonymity of the internet, it's best to judge someone by the content of their character and not by their supposed age.
You have to be kidding? (Score:3, Insightful)
Let alone the fact this is the typical selfish reaction from people who only think freedom works when someone else doesn't do something they don't like.
no, the solution is for you to ignore the people who cause you grief in these games or just don't play them. Most MMORPGs have methods to ignore the very people you speak of. U
Sadly, it's not that simple (Score:4, Insightful)
Point in case, I actually know a mid-40's mid-level manager who speaks l33t in MMOs. Shocked the heck out of me to hear (ok, read) him online chatting in what I imagined to be typical loser-kid speak. The poor sap probably imagines that adopting that lingo makes him all cool and hip online.
I know a guy in his 50's whose online life consists pretty much of being a die-hard ganker. That's how he gets his jollies. Ganking newbies.
Also, let's just say there must be a reason why the stereotype about all the "horny naked teenage female" characters online is to assume it must be a fat 40-year-old guy, and not, say, that it must be a 14 year old guy. 'Nuff said.
Conversely, I've been grouped with more than enough 14 year olds and even (according to himself) a 11 year old, that could actually play the game pretty darn well and functioned perfectly well in a group.
Now I'm not saying that either covers 100% of the group. ("All generalizations are false, including this one.") Just that you can't take it for granted that kids = "leetspeek, ninja looters, griefers & beggars", and adults = cool.
As for the nanny-state part, actually I hope that it's _not_ possible to bank hours. The chinese have my sympathy, but from a selfish bastard point of view: maybe having to deal with the chinese market will finally hammer it into everyone's head that 40-man 8-hour raids are _not_ fun. If it's not possible to do it in 3 hours, including getting the group, that should be anyone's hint that it's probably not that much fun. If you end up having some sort of _duty_ to the guild to be there daily at hour X, because 39 others depend on you, it's not fun. Time sinks are ok only when done in moderation, not when you need to quit your job or give up sleep to even be able to join.
Again, I'm aware that it's a very selfish and nasty thing to say, cheering at someone else's problems. So don't take it too seriously. But, still, if it's happening anyway, it might as well give some designers some clue.
If China really wants to help kids... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Pictures at eleven.
Re:If China really wants to help kids... (Score:5, Funny)
What are you talking about? All I see are happy pictures of happy people hanging around China's grand Tiananmen Square [google.cn]. It sounds like you've been listening to too many American conspiracies! Would you like to visit our special hotel for American conspirists?
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What about the Olympics? (Score:2)
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Read the article.. not the summary- no time limit (Score:5, Informative)
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What's wrong with people? (Score:2, Insightful)
Nanny states are bullshit, just come visit the UK [engadget.com] in the not to distant future and you'll see what I mean (in fact, regardless of the nature of the previous link, we're already a nanny state).
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"but at least we can make our own mistakes...." (Score:2)
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This is not to restrict kids online playtime (Score:5, Interesting)
THAT is the real reason. Register for this...soon register for ALL internet use.
"We want to know who you are and where you go."
Re:This is not to restrict kids online playtime (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm actually quite surprised I had to read this far down in the comments to find someone else who caught that.
Hearing China freak out about video game and internet addiction so much lately has raised some weird red flags with me. The Chinese government has a lot of reasons to keep people offline, and online gaming is one of those things the Great Firewall of China (the existence of which the government denies) they can't control as tightly. This is another subtle way to keep their citizenry in line.
it's so sad that China that gets it right (Score:2, Insightful)
It is so sad that it has to be a country like China that finally gets it right.
MMO-s are addictive, they are designed to be addictive, not as a controlled substance but as a physiological trick of continuous reinforcement. Very soon people do not have fun in these game, rather they can't actually quit, they need to play to feel good again and regular life seems devoid of this feel good ingredient.
Alas I know too well what it is like to be addicted to an MMO. And I consider myself lucky to still have a j
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Even IF their motives were purely "in the best interests of the kids" (yeah, right!), since when is it government's job to interfere in this way? MMOs *are* addictive. No argument from me there! That's one big reason I'm divorced. My ex-wi
Re:it's so sad that China that gets it right (Score:5, Interesting)
There was a time - back when I was actively playing a MMORPG (Final Fantasy XI) that I would have agreed with the idea that MMORPGs are addictive. However, my experiences over the last year or so have made me far less certain.
I started playing FFXI in November 03, importing a copy from the US when it launched there. For the first couple of months, it was just a curiousity... something I logged into once in a while and ran around a bit. Then somebody else I knew in real life started playing. And then another. The amount of time I was putting into the game increased considerably, to the point where it was taking up well over 50% of my non-work time (I have what's essentially a 9-5 office-based job). I was going out less, particularly at the weekends, playing other games less and watching fewer movies (never complain about MMORPG monthly fees - you wouldn't believe how much money they save you). About the only other past-time that didn't suffer was reading.
I got heavily into the game. I did the whole end-game thing, with all the grief and drama that went with it. I slogged through the Chains of Promathia expansion, which was exhausting, frustrating, and infuriating, but also responsible for some of the biggest adrenelin rushes I've ever had from gaming.
At this point, if the addiction analogy were really true, the next stage of the story should write itself; losing contact with real life friends and family, locking myself away in a darkened room, losing my job, dying alone in poverty etc. Except... it didn't. Some time last summer, I noticed that I just didn't quite care about the game as much as I had in the past. Logging in felt more like a chore, the game itself rarely did much for me and I was losing interest in the community. Over the next few months, my play time dwindled rapidly. By Christmas, I was only logging in for a couple of hours a week for scheduled Limbus runs. By February, even that had stopped.
There was no dramatic intervention. No moment when I realised I needed to go cold-turkey. In fact, I never did go cold turkey. I've still got the game installed and still pay $15 a month for my account. I just don't log into it, because I can't be bothered. It's not that I've moved onto another MMORPG. I have a WoW account, which I do log into occasionally, but I just don't find that game fun enough to grip me for long periods. Rather, I've more or less gone back to using my free time to do the things I did before FFXI came along. I'm not alone in this... the real life friends who got into FFXI shortly after I did followed a similar trajectory.
Now, compare that to how a genuine addiction works. I've known lots of smokers. I've also known a guy who started smoking cannabis at 15 and who was dead of a heroin overdose at 23. I've never known a smoker just give up the habit because they found cigarettes just didn't do much for them any more. From what I've seen (and I've never smoked), giving up smoking is painful (emotionally and perhaps even physically) and requires a good chunk of will-power. When drug users find that their current drug of choice doesn't do much for them any more, the response seems to be to move onto something harder.
MMORPGs have the effect on people they do for a number of reasons - interesting game worlds, clear goals of the kind that people lack in their real lives (this one is important), the ability to act out fantasies, a sense of worth from standing in a virtual community and so on. However, I can no longer believe that genuine addiction is one of the factors at work in most cases.
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People call MMORPGs an addiction because up until the point where you burn out they exhibit all the symptoms of it. Your social life does suffer, other games are left unplayed in favor of the MMO, chores are put off (well, this happens anyway) etc. The crucial difference, insightfully noted by you, is that instead of finding something harder or being perpetually enslaved there is a sudden burn out and the "addiction" ends.
I'd stil
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Finally, a response that I can agree with. Yes, this law may seem silly to some, but it makes perfect sense. Two things:
1. Every country limits the activities of minors. The assumption is that minors are at risk, compared to adults, and need extra protection. The USA doesn't let minors buy alcohol - til they are 21, even. Sex is also limited (to 16/18/whatever, depending on the location). You can argue with the specifics, b
This is good (Score:3, Interesting)
I think I speak for all of the Legashi in Azshara (Score:2)
Not so bad... (Score:2, Insightful)
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Notice that this does not restrict adults, and it does not constrict what anyone (including minors) do in the privacy of their own home.
That's where you are very, very wrong. It may not restrict adult's gameplay (for now), but the only way to enforce these rules is, as mentioned, using "registration" and "ID cards" and things like that. This type of tracking most definately imposes a restriction on minors and adults alike, and very
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That makes sense... (Score:2)
Sorry. I was channeling Don Imus.
Chinese Party Youth League moves meeting (Score:4, Funny)
Unchanged is the mandatory attendance policy.
if only... (Score:2)
All those "good for kids" morons should wake up (Score:4, Interesting)
if you BAR kids from doing something they REALLY like and WANT to do in their development stages, and instead FORCE them to do whatever society/you think right and should be done, what you do is going to come back to you as payback when kids reach adulthood and start to exhibit personality/psychological deviations.
ANYTHING that is suppressed gets bigger and strikes back at a later date.
this same trend was here in turkey aroun 15-20 years ago, all kids were put to the "career race", which was something that was seen as both good for the kids, and for the society. (hey, you make the kid race for ranking at the top in the national university entrance exams, which guarantees them a good education and then later a respectable, high salary job, what can be wrong with that)
and 15 years later now, majority of those generations are experiencing personality quirks, antisocial behaviour, a degree of childish selfishness, (which leads to MANY marriages to breaking up), strike-back from stress that is accrued in 15 years of organizational education/racing, aimlessness in life and valueing/judging everything on merits of career/power/monetary values and not able to appreciate real values like love, compassion, friendship, family and so on. hell, there are so many stuff that i dont know if i can stop once i start.
you, chinese are total morons for approving that, or forcing your kids to forfeit their present for their future, a future which never comes and constant sacrifice continues while trying to reach it.
time spent NEVER comes back. NEVER EVER. at deathbed what people think are what they HAVE done, not what they MEANT to do.
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That the majority of kids seem fine and well adjusted isn't the issue at all. Despite not being alcoholics, alpha bullies, chronic gamblers, or excessively violent there are very few that do not consider or actively dabble in such things because of the forceful methods by which they are forbidden. It's not obvious, but the rules are still broken.
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a future in a high position high salary career job together with constant prozac or shrink visits is not some "bright" future, dont forget.
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A Dangerous Game (Score:2)
lucky kids (Score:2)
She truely was totalitarian!
What about the severely disabled? (Score:2)
Besides the very obvious argument that the government shouldn't have the right to decide what's best for you, what about people who can't enjoy going outside? Some people are only really alive in virtual reality. This is just another way of crippling them.
I guess they'll just have to spend more money so they can take up multiple MMORPGs.
Rhetorical question one: Is the government going to reimburse players for the 11 hours (counting a normal sleep cycle) they have paid for but now cannot use?
Rhetor
Good for them (Score:2)
In the absence of parents that give a damn, it's nice that someone is telling the kids to do their homework. But then again, I'm a responsible parent that already limits my children's time when they're unable to manage it themselves.
Comments miss the point (Score:3, Insightful)
Other "Features"? (Score:4, Interesting)
Sure sure, I know China's already got the tap on these places. The sites these users visit (that aren't blocked), are probably logged for easy reviewing access. But it sure would be nice to tie browsing (and game-playing) history to one person, regardless as to what computer he sits at or cafe's he visits.
Monitoring in-game chat would also be a "nice" feature.
-Derek
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I agree with you that, in today's society/culture, the chance that many high school kids will exercise moderation when it comes to consuming booze is pretty slim.
However, do you think if American society didn't pound the "drinking is bad, drinking is naughty, drinking is dangerous, you should NEVER drink" message into kids' heads (as opposed to "alcohol is a beverage that people enjoy with meals & in social settings, but, like anything else, drinking too much is not a good idea"), would the average hig
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So is this something "repressive" by the Chinese government? What would you say if your own government tried to impose something like this?
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Well, I can tell you one thing - if the governments here tried to raise the drinking age to 21 there would be far bigger protests than if they tried to impose this...
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He is making a good point. People get very excited when the opression is of unfamiliar kind but generally do not notice it right in front of them.
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I've yet to be able to wrap my head around the "Here's a gun, go kill for your country... but no beer for you!" policy of americans.
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Even worse... (Score:2)
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http://dwd.wisconsin.gov/dwd/publications/erd/pdf/ erd_9212_p.pdf [wisconsin.gov]
http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/ChildLaborPamphlet2000. html#8 [ca.gov]
http://198.234.41.198/w3/webwh.nsf/Files/MLLPoster
I'm not going to go through all 50 states, but as far as I know there are not ANY states in the US that do not severely limit the number of hours a minor can work. Tell me this... What do you think a 15 year old girl is going to do when it is a crime for a legit
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In any case, every culture is going to find something they don't like about a different culture. Even Slashdot has its own culture...and it is very anti-government control. So yes, to a typical Slashdot this is repressive. Our country is moving too much in that direction already. But hey, maybe Jack Thompson can move over ther
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yeaa (Score:2)
so, instead of "drugs" you want them to be FORCED to modern day slavery.
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