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Education Entertainment Games Science

Doctor Urges AMA To Classify Gaming Addiction 258

Posted by Zonk from the we-who-are-about-to-grind-for-xp-salute-you dept.
Doctor Mario writes "The AMA has issued a set of findings and recommendations (Word document) which follow a lengthy look at possible connections between gaming and violence, as well as gaming addiction. Ars Technica has a very good summary of the report, which suggests that gaming addiction is likely to be a subset of Internet addiction 'as it most frequently occurs in players of MMORPGs. In both of these addictions, the current definition is currently informal — the described symptoms actually most closely resemble pathological gambling, rather than an addiction. In either case, the report notes, "there is currently insufficient research to definitively conclude that video game overuse is an addiction."' The report also recommends that Internet and videogame addiction be included in a revision to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders."
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Doctor Urges AMA To Classify Gaming Addiction More

Doctor Urges AMA To Classify Gaming Addiction

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  • Hoping the Proposal is Rejected (Score:5, Interesting)

    by duerra ( 684053 ) * on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:48PM (#19510469) Homepage
    It's probably a good thing if this gets voted down by AMA. Right now most of the states' laws that are being passed in their respective legislatures are being declared unconstitutional because it has not been demonstrated that video games pose a legit risk to children or their mental health. If the AMA votes through this proposal, we could start to see states pointing to this, and seeing the courts side with the states regarding the legislation that they are passing, which are all currently and consistently being ruled unconstitutional by the courts.
    • ...of people sucking the dick of the kid working the local game outlet in exchange for the latest expansion pack.

      Heroin is addictive. Are we seeing similar behaviour? No? Not at all? Hmmmmm.....

      This is nothing more than further abuse of the "addiction" crap. Everything is "addictive".

    • Re:Hoping the Proposal is Rejected (Score:5, Insightful)

      by krunk7 ( 748055 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @04:29PM (#19512151)

      There is a distinct difference between someone who is participating in escapist behavior and a particular substance or activity being addictive. In the first case, whatever the focus or expression of the escapist behavior is largely incidental. Take the video games away and the person will find some other way of escaping. That may turn out to be reading all day and refusing to interact socially, self cutting, huffing glue, or whatever else may appeal to their personalities. Further, it is very arbitrary in what we would term "destructive" escapism and "constructive" escapism. For example, the socially defunct or depressed teenager who chooses books is viewed as a studios bookworm even though the root cause of the behavior is not any different nor ultimately any more beneficial to the individual.

      For anyone who cannnot clearly see the difference I have a case study. Take a completely average, well adjusted, completely within the bounds or normalcy guy or gal from the street. Now force them to injest considerable quantities of Nicotine, Alcohol, Cocaine or Heroin over an extended period of time. That "extended period" might only need to be a week or two. Now take it away. What happens? You got it, this completely well adjusted individual will go through severe withdrawal. It will be physical, it will be accompanied but not limited to a significant mental craving, and it will be extremely unpleasant and in some cases life threatening. Take the same well adjusted individual and force them to play Warcraft and nothing of the sort will occur. Nada, ziltch. Depending on his general disposition toward games they may even dislike it quite a bit and be very thankful and relieved when they're allowed to discontinue their doses.

      I've known first hand a good amount of people with this so called "game addiction" and in every single case they were running from life not toward games. Conversely, I've interacted with people with real addictions and though many were running from life there was a not insignificant number who were just hard partiers who woke up one day and realized they had a monkey on their back that they couldn't shake without help.

      If only these nut jobs who want to term anything and everything under the sun as "addictive" could be brought to realize the truth of this they'd see that not every negative human behavior can be blamed on an external cause.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by StikyPad ( 445176 )

        There is a distinct difference between someone who is participating in escapist behavior and a particular substance or activity being addictive.

        The difference between physical and psychological addiction are indeed distinct, which is why they have different names.

        Take a completely average, well adjusted, completely within the bounds or normalcy guy or gal from the street. Now force them to injest considerable quantities of Nicotine, Alcohol, Cocaine or Heroin over an extended period of time.

        That is an excel

  • Oh, Come on.... (Score:4, Funny)

    by Wintermute__ ( 22920 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:51PM (#19510513)
    I can quit anytime I want to.

    I'm completely in control.

    • Re:Oh, Come on.... (Score:5, Funny)

      by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) * on Thursday June 14, 2007 @03:18PM (#19510981) Homepage Journal
      Slashdot, or the game?

      • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

        by drinkypoo ( 153816 )

        Slashdot, or the game?

        Slashdot the game. There, fixed that for you.

        I mean, you've got the unwashed masses (no karma bonus), the slightly privileged class (karma bonus), the undesirable element (karma anti-bonus) and the unmentionable class (anonymous cowards, emphasis on coward) not to mention the nobility (editors) and the monsters (also the editors) and the king (Taco).

        Guess that makes OSDL god in this context :)

    • http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/05/08 [penny-arcade.com]

      I'm not playing right now

      In all seriousness games aren't an addicting substance. I've played games for a long time now, on and off. I've never found it difficult to stop playing, never needed any sort of help. I often find it hard to keep playing a game after playing it for more than a week or so. Maybe some people are getting addicted to game, and those are probably the same people who can get addicted to just about anything thanks to some deeper psychological pr

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by e2d2 ( 115622 )
        Yes but would you admit that there is a big difference between moderation - playing games when it doesn't affect your life negatively, and excess - playing games to excess and having it hurt your life. For instance, how many marriages had turmoil because of addiction to WoW? Think it doesn't happen? Better think again. I saw my roommate and his wife almost reach the point of divorce over his WoW obsession.

        So then you say it's about personal choice. Of course it is. So is doing crack. Obviously an addict isn

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by geekoid ( 135745 )
        There not a substance, but they could be addictive..or not. Certainly there are a lot of indicators that they are.
        Maybe some doctor would try to get more studies so we can make informed decsions? if only...

        I think we can safely say they can be habit forming. I have seen peoples behaviors be affected when they can't play games. Depression, mostly.
        People have played until they died, and there are a number of cases where people have gamed to the determent of themselves. Loosing jobs, family etc...

        None of which

      • Re:Obligatory Penny Arcade (Score:4, Interesting)

        by StikyPad ( 445176 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @05:14PM (#19512775) Homepage
        Next thing you know someone'll look at a bookworm and claim books are addicting because they were unhappy at being able to read their favorite book, or a moviegoer unhappy at being barred from seeing a movie

        While I don't think game addiction necessarily needs a distinct category in the DSM, there is a difference between the hobbies you mention and potentially addictive activities. Namely, the latter involve persistant and compelling reasons to engage in the activity. Aside from delayed gratification (which can be more satisfying than instant gratification anyway), there typically isn't a downside to waiting to see a movie or read a book. In a MMORPG, on the other hand, there are countless disincentives to allow the real world clock to tick without accumulating /play time. Granted, these aren't immediately obvious to the novice who may have no problem stopping play, but I've never met a smoker who was addicted after his first cigarette either. From the low levels, the disincentive is to prevent peers from out-leveling you (or perhaps the satisfaction of outleveling them yourself). As you progress in the game, the disincentives turn to missed "rare" opportunities and potential ostracism for failing to help the group. In short, MMOGs are dynamic environments which people can and do miss out on by failing to play. In contrast, books, movies, model-building, and so on are static and exhibit little to no disincentive to ignore them.

        Note also both the similarity between, and integration of, gambling and MMOGs. Each exhibit similar characteristics: They are ostensibly social activities. They never end; there is always another potential goal*. They offer steady but random rewards and punishments. There also appears to be a large overlap of gamblers and gamers: From "guess the number," to full-blown casinos in Second Life, gambling is ever popular among the gaming population.

        I'm not making a value judgement on any of these activities -- I enjoy gambling, and I've enjoyed years of MMOG playing -- but to say that they are no different from avid reading or moviegoing is disingenuous. If they were not fundamentally different, they wouldn't be so seductive, and it's not difficult to see how people can be drawn in to MMOGs to the detriment of all else.

        * The fatal flaw in many MMOGs is that they do, in fact, run out of goals if a player is dedicated enough, which is why high-level guilds tend to have a high turnover of players who become disillusioned once they actually "have it all."
  • like not having medical insurance!

    the problem is doctors addicted to affluence
    • Wow, talk about your incorrect oversimplifications.

      Maybe look into how the consumer is out of the insurance-drug company-doctor-government loop on medical insurance, and how it doesn't truly subsist of a free market.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Gruneun ( 261463 )
      the problem is doctors addicted to affluence

      If you think the doctors are the reason for the lack of medical insurance, you're sadly mistaken. You're attacking the same people that are shutting down their practices instead of paying ludicrous amounts for malpractice insurance, due to frivolous lawsuits.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Stripe7 ( 571267 )
      I doubt if they really want a study done as to who is prone to violence, kids who play games all the time, ( develop problem solving skills, interpersonal relationships on the net, team play etc.. ) or kids who play out side all the time. ( shooting birds, killing cats, stealing cars for joy rides ) It does not take a kid who plays games all the time to become a violence prone bully. My friends nephew grew up playing FPS's games with his grandfather over the net. They developed a very close personal bond du

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by kilgortrout ( 674919 )
      I think you are closer to the truth than you suspect. The medical establishment likes stupid things defined as diseases and addictions for a very good reason - once something is classified as a disease or an addiction, medical insurance coverage is triggered and they get paid. That's why you see a proliferation of human activities being reclassified as diseases and addictions when before we just considered these people fuckups.
  • They said 1-2 hours total, and gaming within that 1-2 hours ... damn, I spend almost 8 hours a day at work in front of a 'screen'. I'm screwed.
    • A professional addict. Those are the worst. Next we'll see you in front of the Walmart begging for change so you can pay your lights bill.

  • Addiction? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by IgLou ( 732042 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:55PM (#19510579)
    Or is the percieved behavior actually the result of some obsessive compulsive tendency? I still find the idea of people being addicted to video games a stretch.
    • I don't.

      It's just hard to identify, due to the subjective methods of determining cases.

      Given an activity someone finds sufficiently enjoyable, combined with a predisposition for addiction, can lead to (this is the important part) neurophysiological changes in the areas of the brain known to play a role in addiction (Nucleus Accumbens, Ventral Tegmental Area, etc).

      There might not be withdrawal symptoms associated with certain drug uses, but *PHYSICAL* changes to these areas constitute addiction IMHO. Some pe
      • Oh really. There is "no way to diagnose it" yet it happens. And you know this *how exactly*? How can you know, if by your own words it can't be detected?

    • Re:Addiction? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by illumin8 ( 148082 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @03:28PM (#19511129) Journal

      I still find the idea of people being addicted to video games a stretch.
      The sooner you realize that the AMA is a business association of medical professionals that is dedicated to increasing the profit and revenue streams to their members, aka "doctors", the sooner you'll understand why we have these diagnostic classifications. I'm not saying that doctors don't help people on a daily basis, but the kind of money that can be made once one of these pseudo-sicknesses is classified as an actual disorder and is covered by health insurance is astronomical. Mental health treatment alone is one of the most expensive forms of health care around. It's in their financial interests to have everything we do be considered a "disorder" of some type or another. As in any case, follow the money.

      Remember, there is a fine line between a "hobby" and "mental illness."
      • Amen. Feynman was right. There's little difference between ancient witch doctors and the modern the mental health profession. The major one being that modern psychoanalysts are a greater danger to free society.

        Their criteria for declaring something a medial disorder is based on 1) rhetoric and 2) political correctness. Why did the AMA delist homosexuality as a medical disorder? Better yet, why was it classified as a disorder in the first place? In both cases the answer is that the AMA bowed to social and political pressure. More direct examples of this sort of thing can be seen when psychiatrists are called in by politicians and companies to label opponents or employees as insane. When the definition of a "disorder" is based solely and completely on a wordy, obscure, and vaguely written paper by a "prominent" author, you can basically tag anyone as being insane.

        It's a pity. There's some good work done in the sphere of mental health. People helping trauma victims based on studies of objective data being the best example. But most of the field is weighed down by extremely abstract humanities doctorates posing as scientists. The situation isn't helped by the neuroscience community waving about brain scans with no concrete idea of anything that's going on, and devouring the first scrap tossed to them by the entrenched ideas of psychoanalysis.

        Bottom line, we need to stop treating psychiatrists and psychologist as scientists. They're not. At best they are practitioners, like doctors, or humanities researchers, like historians, though frankly that's a disparagement to both those groups. In the main the mental health community consists of amateurs posing as professionals. Their opinions should hold no weight in a court of law. The fact that the do is undermining our system of justice.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )
      Why's that? Someone predisposed to it can get addicted to anything that produces a reward. Games are specifically designed to keep you playing them by giving you measured rewards.

      Video lottery terminal addiction is a growing problem -- the things are even more addictive than regular gambling. They're a type of video game.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by jc42 ( 318812 )
        Someone predisposed to it can get addicted to anything that produces a reward.

        And, of course, that's just a rephrasing of the widely-understood definition:

        Addiction: n. Something that someone enjoys and does frequently.

        The tendency to describe enjoyment as "addiction" is well known here in the US, and is often attributed to our Puritan heritage. And the fact that such a diagnosis can be very profitable to the people making the diagnosis goes right along with the practice.

        In reality, maybe what we have her

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )
          No, it's not a rephrasing of your made up definition. It's not even a definition.

          The actual definition of addiction is in flux at the moment, but it still doesn't come anywhere close to what you claim is the widely-understood definition. Addiction isn't just doing something you enjoy, it's being compelled to do something, to the point where it has a strong negative effect on your life.

          The majority here on Slashdot get awfully defensive when anyone mentions that games can be bad. It's too bad, because it

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by RsG ( 809189 )

          Addiction: n. Something that someone enjoys and does frequently.

          While I'm not going to dispute the fact that many people do subscribe to this definition, I don't agree that it's the widely understood definition.

          Psychological addiction is a well observed phenomenon. Generally, it's seen in cases where a normal pleasurable activity becomes a compulsion, to the point where the person cannot stop or quit. The addicts in these cases are frequently people with underlying problems, whose compulsive behavior is a

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Hatta ( 162192 )
      I still find the idea of people being addicted to video games a stretch.

      Ever played nethack [nethack.org]?
    • My roomate suffers from withdrawl when he is away from his account for anything over a day. It's just like watching a smoker or a drug user. They get grumpy, and easilly iritable. They feel anxious and can't think about anything else. They have trouble sleeping.

      Gaming addictions can be just as bad a nicotine addiction, or they can be as mild as chocolate/caffeine. It should be a recognised addiction, for what its worth. Like most other addictions, however, your employer should not have to put up wi
    • I still find the idea of people being addicted to video games a stretch.

      You've never met my mother-in-law. She is so obsessed with World of Warcraft that she pretty much only gets up from the computer to fulfill basic biological necessities. All other aspects of her life have completely halted. She typically plays sixteen hours a day and hardly sleeps.

      I've known people who abused actual drugs and weren't half as addicted.
      • I wonder what kind of social support network your mother in law has. Does she live alone? Because I for one am certain, that if my mom (or mom in law for that matter) were acting in that specific way you just described, I wouldn't be getting them help. I would BE the help. They'd loose Internet connectivity, and they'aad be taken for a long vacation to sub saharan africa (I hear they dont have internet connections there).

        If there was fighting, screaming, crying.. THEN I'd take her to a doctor at that point

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Reality Master 101 ( 179095 )

          So my question is, why isn't anyone doing something about your mom in laws behavior?

          That's like asking, "why don't they take the bottle out of the alcoholic's hands?"

          It's not that simple when you're dealing with an adult making their choices.

    • It is certainly not a chemical addiction to an external substance in the way that some drugs can be, however it may be the case that certain games, and MMORPGs in particular, result in a type of physiological dependence in some people when coupled with certain chemicals produced and released by the body (similar to some of the aforementioned drugs, but not externally introduced) as part of the positive = pleasure and negative = pain reward pathways in the brain. In this sense it has no substantial proven ed

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by IgLou ( 732042 )
        And I've heard of things like that before. IIRC (but I may have this wrong), for some people certain activities triggers a release of serotonin and they keep coming back to that same activity again and again.

        The way I should have phrased my original response as "I still find the idea of people being addicted to video games explaining all these behaviors a stretch". I really think most instances of percieved video game addiction are really do to folks who have some level of obsessive compulsive engaged

  • Seriously... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Valdez ( 125966 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:55PM (#19510589)
    Does this open the door to collecting disability pay/insurance for losing your job after too much WoW?

    Does anyone know how non-accidental disabilities... like drug addictions... are handled in such cases? I've never been a drug addict, but surely you can't collect disability pay for it.

    • Does this open the doors to suing Blizzard akin to the suits against the tobacco industry?

  • Politically Expedient Research (Score:5, Interesting)

    by unlametheweak ( 1102159 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:56PM (#19510607)
    Instead of projecting mental conditions onto physical entities and behaviors like gaming, people should spend more time just trying to understand addiction and obsessive compulsive behavior in general.

    Just studying addictive personalities however is not as sensational or politically expedient as the more sensational avenue of linking games to violence and anti-social behavior. I'm sure a researcher can get more money by studying the latter.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by kabocox ( 199019 )
      Just studying addictive personalities however is not as sensational or politically expedient as the more sensational avenue of linking games to violence and anti-social behavior. I'm sure a researcher can get more money by studying the latter.

      Well you can get addicted to nearly any thing. Let's see there is sex, work, beer, partying, socializing, religion, information, TV, reading, maybe radio, live bands, food, wasting time, gambling, getting various "highs" or "rushes", being the leader of a group, drivin

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by RsG ( 809189 )

        Name an activity and see if you can think of people being addicted to it.

        Suicide. Though I'd bet you could get hooked on suicide *attempts*, you'd have a hard time being addicted to killing yourself.

        Similarly, I cannot picture somebody being addiction to, say, being mauled by wild bears. That's really the sort of thing that you don't do twice :-)

        But, to amend your statement, a person can get hooked on anything pleasurable/stimulating. All they really need is a void in their life that can be filled by doi

  • It's Not An Addiction (Score:4, Funny)

    by Nymz ( 905908 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:56PM (#19510615) Journal
    If you can still breakaway to post on Slashdot.
    Hmm, does the AMA say anything about Slashdot addiction?

    • Hmm, does the AMA say anything about Slashdot addiction?

      The day they classify Slashdot as an addiction is the day I get a free ride. I won't have any trouble proving it.

  • Like smoking a spliff, or listening to music, or getting laid. There's no physical dependancy. You might feel a bit pissed off if you can't have what you're used to, but that's about it.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by wframe9109 ( 899486 )
      I hate when uneducated folk try to make this argument.

      An addiction to something you find pleasurable may not have a few negative withdrawal effects, but EVERYTHING else is the same, including the PHYSICAL changes in the brain.

      I wish I could provide a compelling argument for you, but you obviously have no background in neuroscience, and would thus have no idea what was being argued.
      • And I hate it when over-educated folk get condencending and pompous. Try us, some of that expensive learnin' may rub off on us and make us better people, i.e more like you. Of course you may be just too lazy to write anything more than a couple of sentances.
      • I think the problem with calling it an addiction is that it makes it sound like the substance (or, in this case, activity) causes the behaviour, rather than a person. No game is so much fun that the average person will play them to the exclusion of all else, while it's a fairly hard to find someone who wouldn't experience a craving for, say, Heroin after using it.

        By calling it an addiction, it sounds like you are saying games are inherently dangerous, rather than that some people have a psychological di

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Hatta ( 162192 )
        An addiction to something you find pleasurable may not have a few negative withdrawal effects, but EVERYTHING else is the same, including the PHYSICAL changes in the brain.

        Really? Can you show me an MRI or PET of the brain of an opiate addict and the brain of someone who spends 14 hours a day on WoW and a drug/WoW naive brain and point to those changes? Can you link me to a paper in which they've done so?

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by HTH NE1 ( 675604 )

        I hate when uneducated folk try to make this argument.

        An addiction to something you find pleasurable may not have a few negative withdrawal effects, but EVERYTHING else is the same, including the PHYSICAL changes in the brain.

        What if I find learning new things to be pleasurable? Am I then addicted to education? Should I then be prevented from seeking an education?

        By whose standard does someone (else!) like something too much to label it an addiction? It's all about the powerful not wanting others to fee

    • Examples of a habit would be waking up before daylight, forgetting your car keys, or doing a daily exercise routine (getting laid counts I guess).

      Example of addictions would be a habit that you depend upon, like a morning cup of coffee (caffine) in order to get "moving", or an alcohol beverage in order to escape from emotional pain.

  • why an addiction? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Lurker2288 ( 995635 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:57PM (#19510639)
    Presumably addiction here means that playing games stimulates the pleasure centers in the brain, which leads players to play more in order to sustain the dopamine rush (or endorphins, or whatever). But can anybody explain to me why this is any different from, say, somebody who loves playing soccer, or playing piano? I know people who get cranky if they don't go to the gym at least once a day--are they addicted? What makes gaming (or gambling, for that matter) an addiction?

    Here's your tinfoil hat thought of the day: at least one major drug company is currently working on drugs intended to treat nonspecific 'compulsive' behaviors, and the list of populations they're targeting includes gamblers, overeaters, and gamers. Bit creepy, or is it just me?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Twanfox ( 185252 )
      Excellent points, and ones I ask when this crap comes up. People will do what makes them feel good. I wonder if that behavior falls within the realm of 'addiction'. If so, I wonder what 'normal' is, to walk around in a dull kind of vegetable state, getting little to no enjoyment out of anything you do? If so, screw that. I'll remain addicted.
    • Those things are not thought of as addictive, I would guess, because there are natural limits on how long you can engage in them (you get tired), which prevent them from taking over anyones life. Even pleasurable intellectual activities tire the mind and force you to take breaks. Games however don't tire people in this way and so can be played as long as the person likes. Thus they have greater potential to control the person's life in an unhealthy way (the healthy life contains a balance of activities).
    • "What makes gaming (or gambling, for that matter) an addiction?"

      The same thing that separates feeling depressed from a depressive disorder. Interference and inability to carry out daily activities. Like someone who plays WoW 4 hours a night but otherwise has a normal life is fine, but someone who quits his job by not showing up, ignores his family and loses friendships over WoW would be someone who could probably use a psychiatric consult.
      • Video Fever
        The Beepers
        WarGames Soundtrack

        Working just the other day
        You were an achiever, such a busy beaver!
        Now we hear you've gone astray
        And you're livin' in the shade of a video arcade

        We don't see you on the street
        People ask about you; life is grey without you!
        Do you ever stop to eat?
        Do you comb your hair? Do you really care?

        And it's just a little to the left
        And it's just a little to the right
        And it's just unreal how alive you feel
        Vaporizing everything in sight

        And i

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by ceoyoyo ( 59147 )
      For something to be an addiction that needs treatment it has to be having a negative impact on your life. Gambling all your money away and getting drunk and beating your wife? Check. Getting fired because you're always at the track? Check. Dying in a cyber cafe because you forgot to eat or drink? Check.

      There are adrenaline junkies who probably qualify as addicts -- they take more and more risks until something gets them. Exercise is probably doable too, say if you lose your job and all your friends b

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by brkello ( 642429 )
      Because gaming is still considered anti-social (even if it is an MMORPG, you aren't out with "real" people) and doing it a lot is considered bad in our society. Playing soccer or piano is considered a good thing because you are doing something that is considered constructive (i.e. soccer gets you in good shape and playing the piano allows you to make beautiful music). Gaming is only appealing to the person who is doing it and yields no long term perceivable benefit. I know studies show it gives you bette

  • Ugh (Score:4, Insightful)

    by fastcoke11 ( 805687 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @02:58PM (#19510659)
    Violent video games are a healthy outlet for the natural violent thoughts and feelings that occur in every human being. There IS a correlation between violent people and violent video games, but most people see this in the wrong light. It's a symptom, not a cause. Violent video games do not make people more violent, but one should be worried if observing an unnatural propensity to play violent video games that stretches beyond the game.

    So I guess my point was that people, in general, have this completely backwards. It comes down to whether or not a person can see the difference between fantasy and reality violence. When one cannot tell the difference, it is indicative of something other than an overabundance of video gaming.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Notquitecajun ( 1073646 )
      "...it is indicative of something other than an overabundance of video gaming."

      I'll go out on a limb here and call it bad parenting.

      • I'll go out on a limb here and call it bad parenting.

        I think it's unfair to brand all parents of "problem" kids as failed parents. A personality is built on both nature AND nurture. Some people might turn out bad no matter how hard their parents try. Hoisting the responsibility off the wrongdoers and onto their parents doesn't put enough blame on the actual perpetrators of evil deeds.

  • Hmm.. I think gaming addiction is covered by our healthcare. Now this would help confirm it.

    But we got screwed anyway:
    >>The choice was Universal Health Care or Cheap Games. Canada obviously made the wrong choice, so next time you're visiting the doctor, remember, you could have had cheap games instead. --deadend, Evil Avatar forums.

  • Hi, my name is UnknowingFool

    and I play WoW.

    • Hi, my name is EverPhilski, and I played Everquest for years. Then I started feeling the burn, and decided to back down and play some WoW. Man, that was some weak !@#$, and I kept having night sweats and curling in the fetal position in the shower mumbling Avril Lavigne lyrics from withdrawl. I dropped that !@#$ and hopped back on the EverCrack.

      *twitch*

  • If it were respected then it wouldn't be an issue (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MMInterface ( 1039102 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @03:17PM (#19510961)
    I think the real issue here is that playing video games isn't something that is respected as a valid use of people's time. This realization makes much of the video game addiction issue unravel. If a person spent just as much time playing or watching sports it wouldn't be considered an addiction even if they neglected other aspects of their life. If a person sat around reading novels it wouldn't be considered an addiction but throw some pictures in there and some bubbles around the words (comics, manga) and suddenly its considered and unhealthy obsessive hobby. For every person that spends all their time playing video games there are many more that spend their time watching tv or movies. Video games are singled out because of lack of respect and the perception that only kids should play them. Work is another good example. People use the term workaholic but in most cases the practice is encouraged and respected, yet it is more likely to end a marriage or cause children to be emotionally neglected and it is much more common. Mentally none of these addictions are any different aside from public perception and what the feeble minded media decides to single out.
  • (Courtesy of South Park) "Gentlemen, we are dealing with someone here who ... has absolutely no life".

  • Finding a definition will already be impossible (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Opportunist ( 166417 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @03:25PM (#19511073)
    But we're still at the point of defining addiction. When are you an addict? When you do something for a certain time per day? When you don't want to stop doing this and do something else instead? When you start thinking that this thing is more important than your job? When you would, facing the choice between your loved one and this thing, would choose the thing? When this thing becomes more important than meeting your friends and socializing? When you miss critical appointments, maybe even with your doctor, to pursue this thing?

    If so, I'm addicted to living.

    Ok, that was a blatant one, but it should show that different "things to be addicted to" deserve different definitions. You can't just say "When you do something for X hours you're addicted to it, no matter what it is". When I drink for 3 hours straight I'm most likely on the floor. When I run for 3 hours I'm hopefully near a hospital. When I play for 3 hours I'm mostly relaxed.

    Then there's very different kinds of people. I spend about 60 hours a week reading assembler code. Am I addicted to movs and nops? No, I'm employed. It's my job, and I like it enough that I do actually do the same after I go home. Could I stop? I do every year for a month, and I barely miss it. There's so much else to do.

    Maybe if there's nothing else anymore that interests you could be a suitable definition. But then again, there are quite a few very healthy people who have a narrow field of interests. Otherwise, I am pretty sure there are millions if not billions of people addicted to TV.

    The whole "addiction" theme already fails at its definition. Of course, the subject line is false. They WILL come up with some kind of definition. It will be as arbitrary, indifferent and false as pretty much every other definition of addiction.
    • Addiction is obviously a very difficult to define concept, and there are alot of grey areas. However, people like you who summarily dismiss the concept do nothing to contribute to the meaningful discussion of the topic.

      Here's a very loose definition that might work for you: addiction is any overwhelming feeling of compulsion to perform an activity other than natural biological functions (like eating). A person who is addicted to an activity has a recognizable set of behaviors that indicate the addiction,
      • By the way, people can definitely be addicted to eating, I didn't mean to imply that they couldn't. I just mentioned biological processes like eating to respond to the GP's ridiculous assertion that he or she is addicted to living. My point was only that just because you feel compelled to do something (like eating when you are hungry) it doesn't mean that this is an addiction, but that doesn't mean that being compelled to do something is never an addiction.
  • Information is the crack of todays age. Only problem is it's either free, plentiful or both. Information addiction ranges from MMOs and RSS Feeds to countdowns and refreshing your inbox every minute. My personal opinion is that's a more general addiction not to be narrowed down to gaming. I say this because I feel i suffer from such an addiction. The irony? Reading summaries and posting comments is like a mini "fix."

  • Civ (Score:2, Funny)

    by lonechicken ( 1046406 )
    Civilization at 19 years old: "One more turn! Even if it means I'll miss class and fail!"

    Civilization IV at 34 years old: "One more turn! Even if...ZZZZzzzzzzzz"

    See, I'm cured.
  • I'm so sick of this "gaming addiction" crap. If they really want to understand the problem, perhaps they should stop labeling it as a disorder on such a surface level, lacking any insight or thought whatsoever, and really try to figure out why these kids decide that it's a better life to stare at a virtual world in a computer than to actually participate in society outside of the virtual world.

    Maybe they'd discover something about humans: namely, that we've caged ourselves up in an over-regulated, overprot
  • Do we really need diagnosis like "addiction to chess", "addiction to talking to people", "addiction to gardening"? Playing MMORGs is not any different from these activities and generally it's nobody's business how we spend our free time. If you feel you have a problem, treatment would be the same no matter which activity it is you are addicted to.
  • I've been playing for fifteen years and I ain't hooked yet.

  • Great! (Score:4, Funny)

    by drxenos ( 573895 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @03:52PM (#19511589)
    Does that mean I can get a permit to park in handicap spots? Hey, drug addicts can (or could last I heard).

  • I see merit behind it, but doubt it's usefulness. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kinglink ( 195330 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @04:05PM (#19511801)
    I see this becoming like ADD and ADHD, where a few of us actually have it to the point where when we are an adult we can't shake off some of the tendencies. But then then it was classified as a major problem, and all of a sudden EVERYONE has it, and those of us who actually have it (not just appear to have it) get screwed. Suddenly it's Normal to have it, and that it's "ok" to have it, when half the people I saw with ADD were just suffering from normal adolescents that they weren't even growing out of because it was "ok" that's what made me understand what bullshit is. That was the point I told my psychiatrist to go to hell, and dealt with the problem myself because no external source could give it me. I still have some of the tendencies but the fact is I've dealt with them rather then just accepted them and most people don't realize I ever had an issue with it (and it was a severe case).

    We have the same situation with autism currently. So many kids are being diagnosed with them, but is it merely a case of a genetic defect that is all of a sudden present in them or is it a case of a diagnosis that is just too broad and doesn't realize the term "borderline" really should be "is similar but not really". Personally the research and the cases I've seen seems to be the later. That doesn't mean there isn't autism, but the severe cases are getting grouped with the "normal" cases of anti-social kids who have imaginary friends (imagine a kid having that?)

    Even the behaviors involved with the identification of the conditions are often at odds with itself.

    But even this makes me believe gaming addiction is ripe for another "autism" where there's people with serious problems (read "people who play themselves to death", aka the two Korean gentlemen I read about 6 months ago.) who really do need help, will once again get clumped in with anti-social people who'd prefer to play a game than go to a bar. Do I play games more than I should? Yeah, but I do it rather then going out all night and partying. Losing a job because you're playing WoW is an issue, but preferring to have fun playing games doesn't qualify as a disorder, just as reading too many fiction books isn't one. Sadly the AMA tends to broaden their definitions too much to if you play more than 2 hours of games a day you're sick and need help.
  • ...Step Three will involve Linus Torvalds.

    rj
  • If you spend hours, everyday doing something, then it will effect you. Especially the young.
    Is it good? bad? doesn't matter?
    I don't know. So we need studies.

    Considering the nature of games has changed so much, comparing it to PAC-MAN is a little silly.

    Oh, and if PAC-MAN effected people it doesn't mean we would eat pills and listen to repetitive music*. It could mean we have memory retention issue later in life.

    Determining if something is an addiction is NOT removing blame from someone. It is a data point to

  • Behaviour addiction.

    Because in reality, people can get addicted to almost anything... the only requirement being that such activity stimulates the pleasure centre, creating the addiction response.

    The term behaviour addiction would thus cover internet addiction, gaming addiction, tv addiction, and a host of others, and would reduce the need to have an ever-expanding medical dictionary for new so-called illnesses that are actually just variations on a single theme.

  • Comparing it with Alcohol Classes (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Durrok ( 912509 ) <calltechsucks&gmail,com> on Thursday June 14, 2007 @05:25PM (#19512901) Homepage Journal
    If you get a PI, DUI, or possession charge in Indiana the court puts you on probation for a year and makes you take anywhere from 8-40 hours of classes. I received a PI and had to take 20 hours of these "Prime for Life" classes. Among many things, they explain the various stages leading up to physical addiction with alcohol and marijuana and I can definitely see some similarities between "WoW addiction" or addictions of any kind. Here is a quickly adapted WoW addiction phase table

    Phase one: Take it or leave it

    You can stand to be without it and while you do enjoy when you do get to play you only do it when you have free time that you might have spent playing other games. Your odds of ever getting to 70 are pretty low and are likely to have a few low level alts.

    Phase two: Anticipation

    You look forward to playing WoW when you are leaving work or places where you cannot play. You spend some downtime when you can't play the game looking up some items or character builds and other information about the game. You probably talk about WoW with some friends or co-workers who play. This would be your normal player of WoW who will likely hit 70 some day, make some twinks, and even join a light raiding guild. If anything else comes up with friends, work, or family you will /quit without thinking twice and go spend time with them.

    Phase three: Occupation

    You spend almost every waking moment thinking about WoW in some fashion. Typically work and social life are impacted as you re-prioritize your choices and life around WoW. You probably join a raiding guild and have set times everyday when you login and play. WoW is the only game you spend any serious time playing. Anything that interrupts those things will highly annoy you and you are likely to alienate yourself from others who do not play as to minimize distractions. Relationships with friends and family begin to become strained. You have 2-3 70s and clock in at least 30 hours a week.

    Phase four: Complete Psychological Addiction

    Note: This would be physical addiction for drugs

    Your life is WoW. Every activity in your life revolves around it. You might seek out a job that gives you the best hours for raiding, pass up on promotions that would interfere with it, or even quit your job altogether. Your friends and family rarely see you and you grow distant from everyone who is not a member of your guild. Health and productivity go down the toilet after weeks and weeks of little sleep and complete occupation with the game take its toil. You lose many of your friends and any relationships where your partner does not play WoW as well. You may leave your guild as they are no longer "hardcore" enough for you and either start your own or join a very serious raiding guild. If not you are likely a guild leader or very high up in your guild.

    Maybe I should start a "Prime for Gaming" support group. :P

  • Television addiction? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by kris2112 ( 136712 ) on Thursday June 14, 2007 @06:46PM (#19513661)
    The average american watches 4.5 hours of television a day.

    Is that an addiction or a mental illness?

    Or is that acceptable because the boomers grew up with it, but not with video games?

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