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College Librarians Urged To Play Video Games
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Mon Jun 25, 2007 01:39 PM
from the use-more-buzzwords dept.
from the use-more-buzzwords dept.
An anonymous reader writes "At meeting of college librarians, experts tell them they need to start thinking the way video game producers think and provide library services that will make sense to those who play computer games. 'In an era when most students would have to go to a museum to see an old-fashioned card catalog, there's no doubt that libraries have embraced technology. But speakers said that there was a larger split between students -- who are "digital natives," in one popular way of classifying people based on their experience with technology -- and librarians, who are more likely to be "digital immigrants." They may have learned the language, but it's a second language.'"
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Just the opposite (Score:4, Funny)
Uhhh... (Score:3)
Re:Just the opposite (Score:5, Insightful)
We aren't talking about people who don't "know jack diddly shit about computers," we're talking about those who know how to use computers, perhaps rather efficiently and at a higher than novice level, but don't necessarily live the immersed in digital technology life that many of us do now. That was the whole key point of the article when it mentioned that today you'd have to go to a museum to see a card catalog, since most all libraries use technology. They know how to use computers, but that isn't the same as being "native" to them. There is a huge divide between those that can use computers, but don't necessarily do so outside of work, email, etc., and those that are literally on a digital device of some sort nearly 24/7 (except for sleeping of course, but the iPod alarm clock will make sure you don't sleep too long).
It really is the classic case of knowing the difference between knowing a language and being native to it. A lot of younger (30 and younger, let's say, to be diplomatic) think in digital terms (I catch myself all the time telling someone to click on the buttons in an elevator), much like native speakers of a language think it that language, regardless of whatever other languages they know. And it's not really something you can teach - you just have to try and immerse yourself, much like learning a culture by living in its native country. I don't think playing video games is really going to be that much of a help, but the core idea is somewhat solid.
Parent
Re:Just the opposite (Score:4, Insightful)
If a game player wants to find some sort of information out and doesn't know how, perhaps that person can simply do what everyone else does, and translate the request into proper English and simply speak it to a librarian. This is a skill that has worked well for several hundred years Oh, right, this is new technology so that obviously means all existing paradigms are invalid.
Most librarians that I have interacted with are extremely competent, know how to find what you want to know, and are helpful to a fault. Which is sort of a job requirement for them because (as the article I'm commenting on illustrates so clearly) some people have this sense of entitlement when they speak to one. They figure the librarian owes them on a personal level the information they want in the format that best suits them. That somehow it's the library's job to reach out proactively and bestow needed information on everyone like a fairy godmother. Wrong. The student is the supplicant (as much as the article seems to want to mock this), and the student that wants to know can jolly well learn how to learn. This is the greatest skill that any university can teach, and simply plopping it in a student's lap does that student no good.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Google, Yahoo, et al, are good tools for locating information - if you know what you're looking for. Most people that I know - even "computer literate" ones, have almost no idea how to pick search terms in a way that will get them the information that they need quickly. Yes, they know how to use boolean operators, quotes and the other ways that you can tune queries, but if they don't know exactly what they're looking for to start with, they're pretty much lost. They under
Re:Just the opposite (Score:5, Informative)
The divide is likely caused in part by the age rift.. librarians are paid very low wages for a required masters degree (admittedly, more in college than in the public domain), so the job is still typically held by financially comfortable older women, just like the stereotype.
If the salaries of libraries was adjusted to be more in line with the knowledge they are expected to have, and the degree they are required to earn, then the technology initiatives that libraries are pushing these days would likely be more effective, as more "digital natives" would be attracted to library positions.
Parent
WoW Decimal System (Score:5, Funny)
200 - Rare Loot
300 - Epic Loot
400 - Instances
500 - World Zones
600 - Creatures of Azeroth
700 - Biographies of Alliance and Horde Leaders
800 - History of Azeroth
900 - Addictions
As a Digital Native... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:As a Digital Native... (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is that most of today's smart youth are indeed videogame junkies with a lack of patience, but we need them to develop into tomorrow's politicians, scientists, programmers, doctors, businessmen, and engineers. This will require different tools for teachers at schools and libraries.
The truth is, most kids just aren't going to spend several hours going to the library, finding the right book, and reading some 10-20 pages to find the relevant info when they belive they can find that same info via google in 10 minutes.
Mind you, digitalizing the libraries is a far easier task than reaching the other 50%+ of kids whose parents don't value education or give a fuck that their kids are sucked into the ghetto/gang culture.
Parent
Re:As a Digital Native... (Score:5, Insightful)
I think rather that the young of this generation, like every other generation before and probably every one to come, would simply like to see the old discarded. A lot of the time that is based on the rational belief that when you have a better way to do things, you should do them that way, and not stick with the old because of tradition. I would further state that tradition is never a justification for doing something immoral, unethical, or just plain dumb.
Frankly I don't know or want to know or plan to use the dewey decimal system, aside from it putting books in some kind of sequential order so you can find them on the shelf. This is because they have been kind enough to organize the catalog information on the computer, and I can simply go look for books on a subject, or by an author, or by title. And I will unintentionally "use" (rather, "benefit from") the system because books tend to be grouped near like books.
Regardless, the article (while occasionally wrongheaded) makes some excellent points. While I disagree that a digital native (like myself) would never read the instruction manual before playing a new game (I do this just to find out the controls so I'm not flailing, even if there is a tutorial) it is eminently reasonable to expect the information-finding tools to not require any training, introductory documentation, et cetera. There is no reason why every interface should be as intuitive as possible.
Some of the suggestions are ridiculous (why should a librarian have to try to help me via a series of ~150-character text messages? that's not an effective use of their time) but some of them are good sense in any educational setting, like "Avoid implying to students that there is a single, correct way of doing things" (I wish more teachers would try that one) or "Look for ways to involve digital natives in designing library services and even providing them" which only makes sense - the students should be involved in the process, as they are the intended end users. But some of it is kind of ridiculous, like "Schedule support services on a 24/7/365 basis" which would require money, or "Play more video games" which is frankly not necessary for any thinking individual to be able to absorb, comprehend, and implement the more intelligent suggestions made in the article.
Parent
Re:As a Digital Native... (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:As a Digital Native... (Score:5, Interesting)
Start with a cage containing five monkeys.
Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string and place a ladder under it. Before long, one of the monkeys will spot the banana and start to climb the ladder. As soon as he does, spray all of the other monkeys with cold water.
Replace the banana.
After a while another of the monkeys will probably go for the banana. Again, spray all of the other monkeys with cold water. Monkeys are fairly smart, so pretty soon whenever one of the monkeys tries to climb the ladder all the other monkeys will try and prevent him doing it. When this happens, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. Then put another banana at the top of the ladder.
The new monkey will spot the banana and make for the ladder. To his surprise all of the other monkeys attack him. After a couple more attempts result in further beatings the new monkey will not make any attempt to go for the banana.
Remove another of the original monkeys and replace it with another new one. Then replace the banana. Again, the new monkey will make a grab for it. Like his predecessor he will be amazed to find that all the other monkeys attack him. The previous newcomer will take part in his punishment with some enthusiasm.
One at a time, gradually replace all of the original monkeys with new ones. Each of the newcomers will go for the banana. Each one will be attacked by the other four. Most of the new monkeys have absolutely no idea why they were not allowed to climb the ladder, or why they are participating in the assault on the newest monkey.
When all of the original monkeys have been replaced, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless no monkey ever approaches the ladder. Why not? Because as far as they are concerned that's the way it has always been done around here.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Now... I can honestly not recall the last time I was in a library. Probably the one time I had to go there for a college report in which I couldn't use a single internet-based
Oh, yeah. (Score:4, Funny)
And that is different from anyone else
Haven't us guys ALWAYS been accused of skipping the instructions? Be it stereo or bicycle or whatever.
Apparently everything old is now new.
Re:Oh, yeah. (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
No! Kick 'em in the ass instead (Score:5, Insightful)
So where is the companion article titled:
Video game players encouraged to learn to use libraries
?
This is just depressing. More dumbing down.
OK fine, but I never thought of research as play.
True, I do this every day. But again, we're not talking about play. It's a little harder (but not impossible) to graduate from college and hold a job while inept. And of course, the best quote from the article:
Because we don't want failure to hold anybody back, teach people to learn from their mistakes, or encourage them to work harder.
What about old people? (Score:3, Insightful)
Conan the Librarian (Score:4, Funny)
sigh. Gotta pull out that UHF DVD and watch it sometime...
Seems like feature bloat (Score:5, Insightful)
I feel that the suggestion to have college libraries host LAN parties is just ridiculous, unless the purpose is to drive up user traffic (which a lot of the time affects funding). It seems to me that hosting LAN parties for gaming is antithetical to the purpose of a library, and would be distracting to people using the library for work (even if it's in a separate, sound-proofed area -- the temptation would be distracting to me, I'm sure). If the library has resources to host parties after hours, then I believe those resources would be much better used keeping the library open for study longer.
As for 24-7 support services, wouldn't that be expensive? And why should a college library offer full services 24-7 other than making life easier for students? I know for certain that when I work late, I don't have full support from staff at my company. I think students should get used to the fact that not all resources at at our fingertips 24-7, and we should not expect them to be. Students need to learn to manage resources well, and that includes dealing with part-time access to them.
I don't ant to sound like I'm going off on a get-off-my-lawn tirade, but I truly feel that libraries should stick to their base functions as information repositories and access points. Does this mean that library use may drop, since the internet has become the prime access point for information among younger people? Sure. But rather than expand the scope of libraries, I'd rather see reduced expenditures (like shared acquisitions {when licensing permits}, more efficient use of technology (why keep all those little-used dead trees around when digital versions are both more useful and cheaper to deal with?).
Plenty like a video game! (Score:3, Funny)
(Bonus points if you can identify the major US university I'm referring to.)
"think like a game designer would" (Score:5, Funny)
The librarian coos, "Oh, that's a lovely book. I can point you directly to the shelf where it belongs. It's in the basement, near the new Ancient Egypt exhibits."
> north
You are in a twisty maze of Paleology stacks, all alike. > north
You are in a twisty maze of Bolivian Studies stacks, all alike. There is a staircase leading down. > down
I don't understand you.
> go down the stairs
It is dark. You might be eaten by a grue.
> light light I don't understand you.
> turn on flashlight
You are in a twisty maze of Egyptian stacks, all alike. An archway leads east between two papier mache sphynxes.
> east
A janitor yells at you, "Hey! You can't go in there! The exhibit's closed until Monday. But if you fetch me a bottle of whiskey I stashed in the Astronomy stacks on the third floor, I'll let you in."
>
Video Games? (Score:3, Interesting)
People aren't having a whole lot of fun in libraries. They suggest: Hold LAN parties, after hours, in libraries. In effect, make the library somewhere that people associate with fun, instead of... not. I don't think this will ever work: people come to the library to find books. If people enjoy reading, they'll enjoy the library. If they just come to do work, then they probably won't. Nothing wrong with that. In my opinion, if you want to make libraries seem like a more fun place, they should have more sections that don't stress silence so much. Of course, people who are trying to work or read quietly, perfectly understandable, but if I'm just leisurely reading and I see someone reading an interesting book, I might want to have a chat with that person. If you go to any bookstore, especially one with a cafe attached, you'll see tons of people reading, drinking coffee and chatting. Why? Silence isn't an enforced rule.
The real substance of the article, though, is about usability. It's not really true that no gamer reads the manual before playing, but the reason that it's not mandatory is because games (especially console games) have a common interface. If you're playing on the 360, you know the controller layout, it's just a matter of pushing a button and seeing what it does. PC games can be a bit more complicated, and I would argue that most people tend to read the readme or look at the Controls option in the game to find out what the controls are. Libraries without a doubt could use a usability overhaul. A requisite link for talking about usability is Don Norman's publications [jnd.org].
As a sidenote, I really hate the term "Digital Natives". I hope it doesn't catch on.
Remember the old "King's Quest" games? (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, just like in the old King's Quest games. Or just about anything from Sierra's old line.
Again, just like the old games. If you're looking for the "armourer", you look for the shop with the say saying "armourer".
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
When the power goes out, in most cases, you can't read the card catalogs. Most libraries' windows do not provide sufficient sunlight for clear vision.
Dude. I mean, DUDE. "We could do it without a calculator. We were still fucked without our slide rules and log tables, though." That's all I have to say about that.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I come from the generation who can actually do math without a calculator. We used slide rules and log tables. We could interpolate.
All due respect, but every generation makes this kind of argument about their kids. My grandfather was a blacksmith, making horseshoes and metal tools. He knew how to pluck chicken and how to gut and clean a deer. He knew how to treat a turkey's wing so that it was rough enough to use as a scouring pad. My parents don't know how to do this, and I don't either.
My father