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Condemned 2 Trying to Avoid Manhunt 2's Fate
Posted by
Zonk
on Thu Jul 26, 2007 04:47 PM
from the game-must-be-approved-by-state-comrade dept.
from the game-must-be-approved-by-state-comrade dept.
CVG is reporting that Monolith, makers of the upcoming Condemned 2, are working with the ESRB to avoid an AO rating. As we've discussed previously, an AO ban in the states is effectively a ban on retail sales. From the article: "When asked for examples of what we might now never see in a game again, we were told, 'An example of what we cut would be putting someone's head in a vice. That was too much, you know. There are also some decapitations we've lost. But this is more Sin City than it is real world and we want people to know that this is not a real world.'"
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Manhunt 2 Ban Fallout, Game Rated AO By ESRB 384 comments
In the wake of yesterday's announcement of a UK ban on Manhunt 2 , Rockstar has registered its disappointment at the BBFC's decision. The company simply stated that they 'respect those who have different opinions about the horror genre and videogames as a whole, but we hope they will also consider the opinions of the adult gamers for whom this product is intended.' Meanwhile, here in the US, the ESRB has given the game the dreaded AO rating, for adults only. If you're unfamiliar with this seldom-seen designation, it's essentially the 'kiss of death' for a title at retail; a number of popular videogame outlets refuse to carry titles with that rating. MTV's Stephen Totilo has a lengthy and considered discussion of these proceedings. "For 'Manhunt 2,' signs pointed to the title being both less and more extreme than the first. Gone from press previews were mentions of snuff films and Directors. Instead, a more traditionally violent video game premise: one man's struggle to stay alive in an insane asylum gone mad."
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News: Croal vs. Totilo - The Manhunt 2 Letters 42 comments
N'Gai Croal (of Newsweek) and Stephen Totilo (of MTV) once again match wits in a textual format, this time over the Manhunt 2 controversy. In Round One, the two reporters discuss the process of playing the game for the first time, and wonder what the experience must have been like for the ESRB raters. Round Two sees them take things up a notch, discussing what exactly it is about the game that's so violent. Round Three ... has them questioning the nature of gaming itself. As always, these are two smart guys with some interesting insights into the medium. Well worth your time. From N'Gai's final letter: "It's difficult to 'read' or derive much meaning from a game. That's why in our three Vs. Modes, we ultimately don't spend very much time talking about or analyzing the experience of playing a game, because it's hard to do so without turning our emails into "I went here. I did this. I picked that up." Which is, after all, what games are. So if the essence of a game is located in what we do, is a walkthrough--go here, do this, pick up that--the most truthful way to write about the experience of playing a game? I hope not. But it's something we should consider. Once again, if the essence of any game is located in its action, reaction, interaction, and the rules which circumscribe those three elements, what does the narrative do?"
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The ESRB, Earmarks, and Manhunt 2 in Game Politics 48 comments
GamePolitics has a number of interesting posts up this week on developing stories. The ESRB has fired off a warning to 3D Realms over some out-of-date labeling on the Duke Nukem portion of their website. The organization says it's standard procedure, but 3D Realms co-founder Scott Miller views it as a 'sucker punch'. Meanwhile, Senators discussing earmarks for the year are in a row over videogames. Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) is resisting a $7.5 Million appropriation for an advanced computer system, which he 'compared ... to videogames.' Sen. Ben Nelson (D-NE) countered by noting that Coburn authorized spending that resulted in the creation of an actual videogame, the Full Spectrum Warrior title released by THQ. Finally, Rockstar has fired back at GamesIndustry.biz. The respected European news site wrote a blistering editorial when the Manhunt 2 kerfuffle first started, saying that Rockstar was being 'juvenile, shameful, and irresponsible'. They've now responded: "What about games make them deserve special treatment from the authorities? According to industry groups, the average games player is in his or her 30s, yet you support the widely held view that games are somehow a less sophisticated medium than cinema, only suitable for immature audiences. In other words, although gamers can negotiate the boundaries between reality and fiction in other media, you believe we are incapable of navigating the same boundaries in videogames ...
We believe in a well-run ratings system. With the best rating system in history and the future of the industry and medium at stake, we don't understand why it is necessary to effectively ban all games intended for players 18 and older."
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Bah (Score:5, Insightful)
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Swi
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The ESRB was created as a stopgap by the industry to pull the rug out from those who saught government intervention in ratings and permissions. It's very much a "see? We can self-regulate so you don't have to!" Much like the PMRC did with the parental advisory stickers. The same thing was done by the MPAA a about 50 years ago due to movie content concerns, and comic book organizations, too. V-Chip? Yup. All
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I understand the history behind the ESRB and why it exists, I just feel it's wrong for retailers to make blanket decisions to not stock a product based on its rating. I also think selling two versions of the product, one censored and the other not might be workable, so long as the censored version is clearly marked. I refuse to purchase any CDs at WalMart because they censor all their CDs, and it really ticks me off that they don't even put any warning stickers telling you they're censored.
As for the MPAA,
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they don't want to service a torture porn market in video gaming.
What's torture porn?
Maybe it is time you grew up and began asking what real adults want to see in gaming. You might just discover that disembowelment isn't the answer.
It's not the job of the stores to determine what I want to see in my games. Personally, I wouldn't buy Manhunt 2 no matter what they rated it, it's just not my type of game, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't carry it for people who do want to buy it. I don't care if retailers don't carry a particular game, that's their choice, what I get mad at is when they make blanket rules about games with a particular rating. Each game should be evaluated by the store based on how well they t
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The chains are free to decide what they want to sell. Don't like it. Build your own.
Unbelievable.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Nonetheless, I'm extremely pissed that game makers have to worry about ratings now in order to get their games on the shelves. In the past it was, "Oh, look.. That conservative group is trying to nag at our game. Ha! We're number one on the selling charts!" And then finally, those "conservative groups" get a couple of lawmakers to enforce this type of law because of some group of idiot developers who decide to put an extremely well hidden sex scene in their game.
Just great. So while we're censoring every form of art, how about Michelangelo's statue? Someone needs to put some leaves there. Oh, is that a breast on that artwork? Better get the censor bars out.
No matter what it is, there's always some group that complains enough that, "This shouldn't be shown, because it's just.. shouldn't." Of course, I'll also assume that their kids will group up and be smiling adults that always do the right thing, help old ladies cross the streets, turn their head away from those XXX nightclubs, and of course, never ever get angry.
Beautiful, just beautiful. I suppose if people have a bad enough psychosis that they can't tell that Condemned has a world in which demons exist and physically manifest to cause riots apart from the real world, well.. My opinion on humanity is at a loss for words.
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A game vendor shaving their game to get a M rating isn't that different from film makers shaving scenes to get back from a NC-17 (or worse) rating. Theater chains won't carry it, major retailers won't carry it.
You're right, it's no different, and I don't approve of either one. A game or movies rating should have absolutely zero impact on where or who sells it. The rating is there for the consumers information, not the retailers. Makes me wonder how much capital you would need to start your own movie chain that carries any movie regardless of rating.
Just Make It as Violent as You Please, OK?! (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm getting really sick of all this pussy-footing around. Personally, I have a strong aversion to graphic, unnecessary violence, but if you are so unhinged that you can't tell the difference between reality and a game you are ALREADY off your rocker.
Who will wise up... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Who will wise up... (Score:4, Informative)
The Wii, Xbox360 and PS3 already have systems where you can lock out any ESRB rating if you don't know the passcode to play.
Parent
::choke:: (Score:2)
Hold on, my friends. With each passing day, games are being more and more scrutinized. It's only a matter of time until it's a criminal offense to make a violent game.
And you know what the absolute worst part about all this is? The original video game generation is the generation calling the shots on this one.
How big of a pile of bullshit is that?
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I think this whole controversy is dumb. Just like the organizations that tried to "protect" youth from slasher and nudie moves they are trying to do the same with video games.
It has nothing to do with the "original video game generation." Some people want to control other people. Some don't. These folks obviously do, and I don't support them.
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And you know what the absolute worst part about all this is? The original video game generation is the generation calling the shots on this one.
How big of a pile of bullshit is that?
About the same as the children of the 60s now leading the War on Drug Users.
Open source game platform? (Score:2)
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oes anyone know if there is any sort of work being done on an open source hardware platform kind of thing
Consoles are an interesting problem. People are hesitant to spend money on a potentially expensive device that won't have many games available for it, so you really need to have a big company behind you in order to produce a successful new console. Even with a big name backing you, the battle is still up hill, because people tend to buy only 1 or 2 consoles, so your really having to compete hard in an entrenched market. There are open source portable consoles out there (that run Linux no less), but they'r
Would we have doom? (Score:3, Interesting)
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The stateside market for AO games on the PC is insignificant. The number of PC games released stateside under an AO rating is insignificant. List of AO-rated products [wikipedia.org]
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