Sony to Add TV Tuner, DVR to PS3

pjhenley writes "Sony has announced that they will add digital TV and DVR capabilities to the PS3 in Europe. TV can also be watched on a PSP using 'remote play' over WiFi or via downloaded recordings. 'The new box will feature two 1080p tuners, which utilize the European Digital Video Broadcasting system (DVB-T) -- which should dash any US hopes for the time being. The system will allow you to store recorded broadcasts on your PS3 drive, and also transcode and transfer the saved files to your PSP.'"

Before anyone starts to complain

We europeans pay around 700-900 USD for the PS3

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

Sales tax isn't applied until it gets to the consumer. VAT is applied at each exchange.

But can be claimed back by VAT registered companies, so it all works out the same in the end.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

There is no VAT in the US, its Sales tax, and the reason it varies from area to area, from 0-9.75% is because its not a federal tax, but is set by the state, and in some cases the county or city will add to it. For example, large Native American areas will have 0% sales tax on items. In the area of Texas I live in, the sales tax is 8.25% (varies when I go from one city to the next, typically between 8-8.75%).

While at first, that may sound lower, the difference is that VAT is added into the sales price, Sales Tax is not. Therefore, while the unit is $699 in the store, you then add on top of that the 8.25% sales tax. This, in my area, brought the total of the PS3 to $756.67 Of course, the advertised price is $699. Very few places in the US add tax to their advertised prices, i think the exception is when advertising gasoline prices, and a few mom and pop stores.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

To be fair, I have not heard many reports of people owning a PS3.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

Before you start complaining about the US price vs the European prices, always remember to remove the VAT from the European prices. Why can't Europeans bother to remember such a simple thing? List prices in the US do not include tax.

Fair point but Amazon is offering the PS3 60GB version for $499 in the USA and £399 in the UK.

Take 17.5% off £399 and you get roughly £340 which, according to xe.com, is $683.

You're looking at $680 vs $499 for exactly the same product - even without the VAT, we have every right to still complain.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

Fair point, but I think you are forgetting something - you are comparing the prices based on if you are an American trying to buy a product in the UK, in which case the exchange rate would be against you.

The exchange rate that ought to be of interest here is that against the yen, Sony being a Japanese firm. If the dollar is unusually strong against the yen at a time while the pound is weak, then we should expect Americans to get a good deal and Britons to get a poor one. But the contrary is true: at present the dollar is weak and the pound is very strong. If anything, the PS3 should be substantially cheaper in Britain.

The truth is that Sony will charge whatever the market will pay, and the market in Britain is well-known for its tolerance for blatant rip-offs.

Re:Before anyone starts to complain

You should be paying Euros for the PS3, not USD.

What's this about!!!

We're the US, the greatest country on Earth!

Why aren't we getting it first?

I gotta say

I love the PS3 for all of it's capabilities (especially since I also have a PSP) I think it's a very well built, very well designed machine that has a lot of potential. It's non-gaming feature list is extensive and USEFUL.

So why do I still very much prefer my 360 over my PS3?

Games. The fucking games.

Come on Sony. We all know that it's a powerful beast of a machine, we know it can do a lot of cool shit...but how about investing in some more quality GAMES? My 360 gets FAR more playtime than my PS3...why?

BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING TO PLAY, SONY.

Re:I gotta say

Yes, but we're just coming into the first real release season for the PS3. Over the next year that will change. People conveniently forget just how long the 360 has already been out for, and that many xBox games were released on the 360 instead of the xbox. Sony has NEVER had a lot of games out in the first year for a new console. Those that know this know that waiting another 6 months to a year will result in likely a cheaper console purchase, and more game options...and in the meantime, thoroughly enjoying the last and best games to be released on the PS2. (End of console lifecycle games are traditionally the best on sony consoles)

Now, if there aren't lots of quality games to choose from by this time next year, there will be problems without a doubt.

Re:I gotta say

See, that's just the thing though....look at what is coming to 360 or 360/PC in the next year (I'm including BioShock in that which, by the way, is one of the best games ever made)

Now look at what is coming to the PS3 in the next year.

I gotta say, just looking at what is on the schedule to be released in the next year, unless something unannounced comes out, it appears my 360 will continue to be putting in overtime while my PS3 takes vacations for months at a time...

Re:I gotta say

Nintendo had the "People want to play fun games and don't want to have to take out a loan to do so" attitude and they're winning.

At least, they are if you're an investor.

From a gamer's perspective, I'm a bit puzzled by the way everyone seems to love console wars. Personally I dislike exclusives. If they're on a console I own that leaves some of my friends unable to share in my enjoyment of the game. If they're on a console I don't own that's just annoying.

The Wii's great for gaming in general, because it reminds people in the industry that actual gameplay matters. Unfortunately there are downsides too - by making what would once have been a custom peripheral into the standard controller, Nintendo ensure that most Wii games will never appear on other platforms. That's bad news for game studios, because it means less revenue per title. And anything that reduces the profitability of titles is ultimately bad for gamers too.

But there is one lesson I really, really hope the other manufacturers take away from the Wii's success: keep the costs down!

Re:I gotta say

Saying things might change in the future just doesn't matter. If it -does- turn around, it can be re-evaluated whenever that -actually- happens.

And odds are by the PS3 makes sense, it'll be cheaper to have bought a 360 or wii today and a PS3 then, rather than buy a PS3 today and twiddle your thumbs in the interim. Gamers like games. They don't gain anything by denying themselves games in some odd form of platform loyalty.

That whole 'fan' thing is just silly.
It used to be XBox fans defending claims that their console has a worse selection of games with lines like:
'but it's more powerful!'
'b-b-but A/V quality'
'its doing better than the PS2 did at the same point in its release!'
and
'just wait until A and B killer titles release'

And now it's almost perfectly reversed.
Proving once again that people who talk about platforms and potential rather than games are only useful as comic relief.

Re:I gotta say

There are two flaws with your evaluation. I can't believe you got modded 5.

First, you don't buy games based on the percentage of all games that are over 80, you buy games that are over 80 (assuming that means good). So 360 has the most games over 80 - 3 times as many as PS3.

As a more complicated evaluation, you should not necessarily include cross platform in evaluating 360/PS3 unless there is a substantial difference in the games. This is what is bringing the 360 down - the cross platforms average higher than 80 - so if you remove them, PS3 will have even less games over 80 and possibly a lower percentage over 80.

The crux of this is the number matters, not the percentage. There was a massive amount of shovelware for the PS1/PS2 - remember? But that didn't detract from GTA, etc.

The reasoning

Being a half-assed blu-ray player is not enough to convince people to buy a PS3 so now they're trying to make it a half-assed Tivo too.

It will be crippled

Be sure it will be crippled so channels not willing to let your record or transmit via network will be blocked for that.

I just ordered a DreamBox DM7025 (waiting for it in 2 to 3 weeks) with two DVB-S (satellite) tuners. This one run with VDR and Linux. It can't do HD video but, well there are so few or interrestings ones in here...
And the DreamBox is will not block anything. If I can view a channel, I can record and broadcast it to my LAN via standard protocols and codecs to use with VideoLan.

almost worth the price

A couple more features like this one and it will be worth to pay $500.

Blame it on comcast...

They dash any hopes of this happening :(

CableCard addons could have worked but comcast would have to certify the whole PS3 video recording "chain" and that would take so long the product would never reach the consumer in time for it to make a difference.

PS3 or not, i wish more devices could have DVR functionality. I want consumer cablecard in my MediaCenter/360 combination as well but that won't happen unless i re-buy my media center and bullocks to that! I also don't want Comcast flagging my content either.

OTA FTW

I swear

Sony: if you add PVR capabilities to your US models, I will buy the PS3. I bet others who have been wavering will as well. A lot of others.

I love the PS3. It is an awesome piece of hardware. It pushes the envelope. It is driving progress in parallel software architecture and creation. Some good games are presently available, and I feel certain that the next generation of coolness will be created for the PS3--something truly wicked this way comes.

However, a game machine is not enough to warrant the price. I have been waiting for all the other promised applications: music, PVR, etc. Just the PVR alone would warrant my purchase, with the games being frosting on the cake.

The PS3 what's that?

Oh, right, that new Blu-Ray player / DVR / DVD Player that Sony came out with. I heard that they are thinking of even adding some functionality to it to play games eventually!

All jesting aside (yes the 360 does many functions too), does anyone else wonder if the console makers have strayed to far from the core purposes of the consoles themselves - to provide gaming entertainment? One of the big draws that I always saw for consoles was the idea that it was a cheaper device that you knew would work with every game you purchased, compared to the computer that, while more powerful, needed to be upgraded to keep it top of the line and often has compatibility issues with games due to the massive amount of variety in the hardware present in computers. This draw seems to have lessened in recent years though since the new consoles are coming out on faster and faster release cycles (with the new advent of releasing 'better' versions of the same console during the console's release cycle - see the 360 elite as an example of this), and also are costing more and more money so saying you can't get a decent computer to play the games on for the same price is becoming less of a reality.

For me, I want my console to play lots of games and i'm also ok with basic DVD player functionality if the console is sharing that ability due to utilizing similar media for the games. But adding all of these other extras while nice, forces me to pay for something that I may not want. I want to play games, not have an inferior (in almost every case) HD/Blu-Ray player or DVR. The stand-alone products are almost always going to include more features, be more up to date to the current, evolving industry standards, and also let you purchase it only if you want it!

The bundling of un-asked for features needs to be stopped - at least if you do this make it an optional add-on attached to an expansion port of some sort so those of us who don't want it don't pay for it (like the HD-DVD add-on for the 360).

So what is the PS3 again?

We keep hearing Sony about how the PS3 is the best game system, but so far the only arguments we hear are that it's a Blu-Ray movie player, a Linux computer and now it's also a PVR. Mind you, if the american PS3 had a PVR to begin with, maybe it wouldn't seem too expensive.

Even as a non-Sony fanboy (I'm a Nintendo fanboy), I do wish Blu-Ray wins against HD-DVD, if only because this isn't a Sony-only attempt at pushing their own crap (Memory Stick, miniDisc, ATRAC, etc) but it's even better than HD-DVD in capacity (especially future potential capacity).

And next week...

Sony just keeps addng feature after feature. What's next, a coffee brewer to allow you to keep playing without getting up for your caffine fix?

Re:And next week...

I think they need to add the Sony CD so that high quality sound and video can be played on the console. Then they can add the PS32X to increase the processing power. Then they can announce that game development for both accessories will halt in about a year after the release and you will be stuck for decades with a monster created of multiple esoteric parts and expansions that completely hide the original machine.

I'm going to go play some games on my Sega Genesis/32X/CD. Ah the simple days when a console was a console.

Why 1080p?

Its a "nice to have" feature for sure, but even the quality of the broadcast image doesn't even slightly justify them putting 1080p in there.

US doesn't have real standard yet?

While we've heard a lot about cablecards and cablecard2's and mcards, the Tivo-HD compatibility problems show that we in the USA don't have a good standard yet. It works in some places but not in others. Would Sony face the same problem? Are they just avoiding this fiasco until there's a better guarantee that their tuners will actually work for all buyers in America? How is it that Europe gets better defined standards to work with (GSM, DVB) to ensure compatibility while we in America are rolling the dice with cablecards without knowing if we have the switched video stuff or not that might prevent my cablecard device from working? Or that vastly reduces choice in what phones I can use on my cellphone network?

Re:US doesn't have real standard yet?

How is it that Europe gets better defined standards to work with (GSM, DVB) to ensure compatibility while we in America are rolling the dice with cablecards without knowing if we have the switched video stuff or not that might prevent my cablecard device from working? Or that vastly reduces choice in what phones I can use on my cellphone network?

I'm actually really interested in whether anyone has some genuine insight into that, as I've often wondered the same thing myself. Why is it that the US, which is one country, apparently has so much more trouble to deploy some decent standards than Europe, which is a pretty loosely held together bunch of countries which couldn't be more different from each other?

Re:US doesn't have real standard yet?

Why is it that the US, which is one country, apparently has so much more trouble to deploy some decent standards than Europe, which is a pretty loosely held together bunch of countries which couldn't be more different from each other?

Because the EU isn't afraid to regulate when the market fails its citizens?

Completely off topic but...

...is anyone having trouble with GMail this morning? It just keeps timing out (at least, over https which I have to use at work). I'd ask one of my friends, but they're all on Google Talk, heheh.

Anyways, in order to make this post slight ON topic:

Before anyone starts bitching about how stupid it is to add PVR functionality to what is supposedly a game system, just remember the PSX (not the be confused with the original PlayStation). It was a PS2/PVR released in Japan a few years ago that sold surprisingly well, in spite of being in the range of $600-$800. Now, why they're releasing this in Europe but not Japan I'm not sure, but I'm sure they've done their research and recognized the existence of a market.

I for one would rather keep my PVR separate from my game console. But on the other hand, I've been planning to build a MythTV box for a while, and it will also have MAME on it, so maybe it's not such a far-fetched idea for some people.

One more reason...

... for MS to undermine Blue-Ray adoption...

Look at my precedent comment [slashdot.org].

Now you don't need a STB in the last line.

Both companies struggle for the dominance in the living room. Except that MS is torn between its internal divisions: they get most of their money by licensing software to hardware companies and with the XBox also are a hardware company competing with their licensees... I wonder if they're not limiting themselves with the XBox to not lose these licensees...

it slices, it dices

it prepares food ten different ways! Don't forget, we just added the kitchen sink!

Seriously, though. I like having discrete devices because stuff breaks and I like to:
1. amortize the impact (cost, etc.) of a breakage by having less expensive components
2. get components that do fewer things, but do them better
3. have a DVD on while playing a game. PiP, you know.
and several other reasons i'm forgetting just now.

Microsoft called they want their idea back

Using a game console as a viewing device and having a secondary device to act as a TV tuner/Media manager... sure sounds like Xbox + Windows Media Center to me. I thought the PS3 was supposed to be leading the whole media front rather than playing catchup/me-too. Granted I'm not a big fan of the WMC look and feel, but they've been doing it for years already so the PS3 should have had this from the start (heck WMC can do encrypted cable card capture, and send it the Xbox) rather than months later.

So.. Different SKU I assume?

I thought Sony was afraid of having multiple SKUs..

(and maybe they should get around to finalizing the Bluray spec first?!)

Maybe Europe is different...

Here, I have to use my cable box anyway. So, this would be an even more colossal waste of money than the PS3 already is, assuming of course that this new version costs more.

In the UK you'll need a TV license

Sony has announced that they will add digital TV and DVR capabilities to the PS3 in Europe

The law requires everyone, including students, to be covered by a licence if they use any device to receive television programmes as they're being shown on TV. This includes any TV set, DVD or video recorder, digital box, PC, laptop or mobile phone - TV Licensing [tvlicensing.co.uk]

I expect Slashdotters to reply along the lines of "but I won't use my PS3 to watch TV so I don't need a license". Tell it to the judge, guys, when you get prosecuted.

Emacs!

It seems like the PS3 is the new Emacs: It's a good all-around computer, the only thing missing is good games!

Can it record while you play online?

While PVR functionality would be a nice added feature for the PS3, I have to wonder if it will be capable of recording a program while your playing a game or watching a DVD.

If it cannot record, than its utility as a recording device is much more limited. My current PVR will let me record the shows I like while I play a console title simply by virtue of being a separate piece of hardware. Otherwise, they would be better off trying to add some sort of background torrent streaming so it can download programs while idle.

END COMMUNICATION

This is a great feature

Europe has a lot of terrestrial digital channels via DVB-T. This add-on for the PS3 is essentially a twin tuner that receives DVB-T and allows you to record and watch shows as well as getting listings. Not only that but it appears Sony are future proofing it by allowing it to receive H264 HD channels when they start to appear making it doubly appealing. I think this device will generate a lot of interest for the PS3 in Germany, France and the UK.

The one concern I have is how this plugs into the PS3. I assume the receiver plugs into a USB port, but does it require one port or two? Is one port sufficient for the data? I know PC USB tuners manage on one, but how will it cope with twin tuners and H264? Additionally the PS3 has USB ports on it's front side which might make this thing look a little kludgy when its plugged in.

Still, it's a welcome addition and about bloody time. Consoles are more than capable of acting as multi-media centres (not dumb streaming slaves to PCs), so it's nice to see Sony treating the PS3 like one.

Two 1080P Tuners?

That's a misleading way of saying it has two digital tuners. 1080P is nonsense in that context, the tuners don't play any part in the decoding or display of the video. They just take the broadcast and convert it into a digital stream that the system saves to disk. Just like my HDHomeRun networked Tuners are "1080i or 720p tuners" because it grabs the broadcast and sends t to my MythTV box via UDP.

But, with the horsepower of the PS3, it could make a nice DVR. The cell processors can be utilized to decode the few 1080P H.264 channels available in Europe - or the much more common SD Widescreen channels.

Can it record TV programs to a network drive, or at least a USB drive?
It can transcode for use on the PSP.. that's a nice use of the Cell power. Can that be done for iPods, iPhones, or Laptop use too?

Of course, it won't ever do some of the things MythTV does, like commercial flagging/skipping..

So what's the market?

I am seriously getting confused about what the PS3 is meant to be. So far it seems to be doing its best to be a jack of trades and still fairing worse than a PC for the cost. Options of what it is meant to be:
    - Game console
    - Blu ray player
    - PC (I believe it was suggested at some point)
    - TiVo

Now which one is it successful at being at? There is nothing worse than losing focus and at least with a PC you can do whatever you want with it.

Still Missing...

... CableCard support.

Seriously. If a game console can do DVR and Tuner stuff, then just add a CableCard slot and the days of the proprietary cable-co. box are numbered. Microsoft, are you listening?

Then again, if they can manage to get the price-point down a tad, maybe they can just make an OEM deal with Comcast or Cox, and be done with it. It would have to be better than the POS boxes they're using now.

Well thats me sold...

Im a UKer, I have a 360 and I love it, HOWEVER seen as Microsoft seem unwilling to add the video marketplace over here and seen as there is a complete lack of decent TIVO like systems in this country, I'm probably gonna loose my anti Sony bias (Long time Xbox and Nintendo fanboy) because at last a company has actually realised that Europe is quite a large market and bloody well given us something! Thank you Sony, you've just gained a customer.

Just wait...

Until the release the price point. Sure it may be worth it at $700-$00 but is it worth it at $1500? And I wouldn't be surrised if there was a monthly fee to use the feature. That is where the money is at, reaccuring fees.

"sony" -- Webstr explains

sony - v.

1. To anger one's customer base in a flagrant manner. Ex: "2KGames really Sonyed us with that SecuROM stuff."

2. To desperately seek relevance in a market in which your success is dwindling. Ex: "Did you hear that Sony's going to add a TV Tuner and DVR to the PS3?"
 

No burner?

I didn't see any evidence that you'd be able to burn these programs to the Blu-Ray device, just store them on the PS3's hard drive. Are Blu-Ray burners godawful expensive, or is this just an aversion to letting people make hard copies of copyrighted materials?

It's amusing to see how Sony has jumped the fence since the Betamax days. Now that it's big into music and movies, it suddenly doesn't seem quite so aggressive about marketing devices that can duplicate copyrighted materials.

Company comparison

Sony = style, but no content Microsoft = content, but no style Apple = the perfect fusion of style and content Personally, I'm holding back my hard earned dollars until the iGame comes to market...

additional features

Not mentioned in TFA is another exciting new feature. A wireless bed pan with built in rumble! Experience full gluteal tactile feedback and fully immerse yourself in your gaming experience, defecating right along with your in-game avatar. Now the PS3 is the most amazing console ever.












For me to poop on!

Why Europe

Why does Europe always get all the good and bad ideas that sony has first?

no clear direction

a suggestion to sony, add a keyboard, mouse and allow x86 programs to run, put in satellite fm tuner, audio amplifier, and mixer into the box among others to make it the center of the living room.

if i were a game developer, i would no longer develop for the ps3. by making the people spend time with the ps3 as a pvr than a game console, my potential sales will be lost.

i just see it as,
father: i want to watch the show i missed.
son: i want to play.
father: sorry you should have gotten a wii. haha!

Just last night I was adding this myself-

Has anyone else played with a MythTV backend recording to a uPnP share? I've started watching TV with my PS3 already. . .

Linux/DSP Alternative PS3

What the PS3 needs is someone to port X/OpenGL and its (TV) graphics rendering libraries to the PS3's DSPs (SPEs) [wikipedia.org]. Then we can use any USB tuner and DVR SW we want under PS3 Linux [psubuntu.com]. On a fast multimedia platform that's subsidized by Sony to be much cheaper for the performance and features.

Without depending on Sony not to lock us in with DRM or to snoop on us with spyware. If Sony can do it with their dedicated HW, the rest of us can do it with their opened HW and the open Linux platform.

Okay, now I'll buy one.

Really, I just needed some additional reason to buy it... games... something... I mean it's not like it's expensive or anything.

"which should dash any US hopes"

Which could dash US sales, too.

When you're only now getting your box up from a lethargic start, you really take a gamble when you announce a far superior version on another continent. Apparently Sony sees no way to win the current console race without adding more functionality.

Well, ironically, that's also a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's not only the competition that this affects. I was close to pulling the trigger on a PS3, but Sony has given me another reason to wait. (Price and more games being the other reasons.)

As Master Po might say: Patience, feature grasshopper. :-)

Isn't this redundant with sky HD/virgin media?

In the UK, you can only get HD programmes off the Sky HD satellite service or the virgin media cable service. I don't have sky HD or Virgin media HD but I understand that you need a set top box for either service. These boxes already include two HD tuners and a 160Gb hard drive in each http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V+#Technical_specific ations [wikipedia.org], http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/17/skys_hd_bo x_review/ [theregister.co.uk].

I'm fairly sure you'd have to hook up one of these two boxes to a PS3 to allow it to record HD programmes. So why would you bother getting an add-on for the PS3 just to record TV when you get a cheaper DVR (than the original PS3) with a higher storage capacity just for subscribing to the service?

The only pro I can see is going to watch TV on your PSP whilst sitting on the toilet. But since DVRs can pause live TV long enough for any toilet break, isn't that also redundant?

As an American, can't really complain

So the Europeans get HDTV tuners and PVR capabilities, BFD. Mine actually plays PS2 games.

Re:Dear Sony

Reply from Sony:

Dear Anonymous Coward;

Install Linux, use XMMS, Enjoy. Works on a Playstation 2 with a Linux kit installed too.

SCEfoo