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GameStop Manager Suspended After "Games for Grades"
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Mon Sep 17, 2007 04:51 PM
from the remember-you-still-work-for-someone-else dept.
from the remember-you-still-work-for-someone-else dept.
mikesd81 writes "A manager at a GameStop has been suspended for instituting a 'games for grades' policy. 'Brandon Scott says he started a unique new policy in his store to promote good grades in school but now his employer has sent him to detention for speaking out of turn. Scott says he's been suspended by GameStop in the wake of his unconventional "games for grades" policy at an Oak Cliff store.' Apparently, on his own, Scott decided to stop selling video games to any school-age customer unless an adult would vouch for the student's good grades."
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Bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bad idea (Score:5, Insightful)
GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:5, Insightful)
If he's unwilling to sell games to kids who are flunking out of school? I TOTALLY LOVE THAT STAND. Seriously, think about it. We have major issues these days with schools being fucked up. If kids aren't making the grade, we may love games, but just letting them play the games is not going to teach them to take school (and work) seriously.
Fuck Gamestop for suspending him. They should be putting him on a pedestal and making this a nationwide policy.
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:5, Insightful)
What's the cutoff though? I agree if someone is flunking and in danger of being held back a year then they shouldn't be playing games. But what about people who are barely passing? Are you willing to go so far as to let society dictate to them a change in lifestyle? Do you even know if the school that person is going to is properly testing the student?
When so many questions are being asked about the institutions supplying those grades (in the US) the idea seems dangerous. A lot of those kids who are barely passing are the smart ones because they aren't buying into the bullshit daycare system they've been shoved into.
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Really now, I think you are missing a very valid, important point this whole plan causes... PARENTAL INVOLVEMENT - the parents are forced to be involved in their kids' game-playing choices, as well as the fact their kids are getting good - or bad - grades is a reinforced memory. The fact that this store wont sell the kids games unless they are getting good grades should also thus (hopefully) prompt more parental involvement "Gee, that store manager was right... maybe I should look into other ways besides denying them the latest game to assist them in getting better grades"
Of course, the reality is probably that more parents, overburdened enough already just trying to make ends meet, will get less involved (or it wont change their involvement at all) under the false sense of security in the fact that "Gee, the store manager has already dealt with that issue"
Now, as for your change in lifestyle comment... I dont know about you, but if I was getting bad grades, and playing video games, I can guarantee you my parents would insist on a change in my lifestyle... (1) no games, (2) It would hurt sitting for at least a few days from the ass whooping I'd get. Am I condoning #2? No. (Though it was decent incentive for me to be an Honor Roll student)... but things that fit in the #1 category SHOULD be something considered by EVERY parent who wants to see their kids have a chance to succeed. Is school the be-all-end-all for having a successful life? NO... but it does help - in the very least, it opens up opportunities allowing the kid-turning-adult to choose when the time comes. Would you rather that, or a kid that wasnt motivated to do well in school who then complains the rest of his life that all he can be is a janitor? Being a janitor by choice is fine... not having a choice because when you were a kid, there was no incentive for good grades and behavior (and no punishment for bad) is pretty fucked up.
Your DayCare comment makes no sense... I doubt this story is about the guy not selling to kids in daycare. As for non-daycare school, I had some tough times because I was bored (thus didnt do my work, and had to struggle at the last minute to stay on the honor roll)... but I found that with the right motivation, that changed... got into AP classes, got more mentally challenged (pun possibly intended), and did far better in those classes than in the standard level classes.
Besides, it really shouldnt matter what SOCIETY does - it should really matter what is right - or wrong... not opinions, not faith, not "everyone does it".
For this guy to take such a stand, takes guts... funnily, if you go back in time a bit, substitute games with anything else that shouldnt be sold to a certain age, such as... cigarettes... you find something really interesting... he probably would be in the exact same situation had he not sold 17 year olds cigarettes because he didnt think he should be selling something to a kid who may not yet understand the risks they were undertaking... nowadays, if he DID sell those cigarettes, he'd get fined or worse... too much of a stink for the corporations to try to validate such sales. So, know you have a corporation looking for nothing more than making more money - at whatever legal expense, with no moral implications because of a society that doesnt care. And you apparently support that. Nice.
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:4, Insightful)
If it were really about education then AP courses would be available everywhere. Also, the regular courses would be harder and students would graduate high school knowing the things we teach in first year university. It's not impossible - in fact it's how it's been done for years in Europe (though I hear Europe's been dumbing down as well), and Japan.
Instead we have a system (the majority of teachers, principals, school boards, regulatory agencies, etc) that doesn't give a shit what the students do so long as they sit still, play nice, and don't cause too much trouble. If that's not a day care I don't know what is.
Overall I agree, society should stand up for right and wrong, but this isn't the way to do it at all. Not letting kids buy games because they're failing is like attacking gays because straight people are divorcing in record numbers - it's shooting way off target at an only vaguely related "problem".
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:4, Insightful)
"Right & wrong" are opinions of individuals and society.
It also takes guts for pharmacists to refuse to dispense the "morning after pill." Doesn't mean that society as a whole, or a company should support their unilateral imposition of values.
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:5, Interesting)
You may not think so now, but you'll be glad later that school was like that in terms of authority. Yes, schools try to indoctrinate kids that way, but thankfully they do it BADLY. You've been blessed with a healthy skepticism and disrespect for authority that will hopefully serve you well through the rest of your life. It's one thing to get it from a cultural perspective, it's another to see first hand that many adults really don't know what they're doing, and can't always muddle through.
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Because, after all, gamestop should be parenting rather than, oh, I don't know, the parents. If parents wants to let their kids play games all day instead of studying they're not exactly right, but more power to them. You can't force people to make the right desisions.
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:5, Insightful)
And his manager exercised the right to suspend him without pay.
And the world spins on...
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:5, Funny)
But not before.
!GREAT Business, !GREAT sense (Score:5, Insightful)
First of all, declining to sell the games to customers on random basis (he defines what "good grades" are, doesn't he?) is not what he was supposed to do. If he thought this would be beneficial to the business, he should've talked to the actual owners. He didn't and he got in trouble.
Secondly, the reason schools are all fucked up is NOT video games. I repeat, video games are not the reason schools suck. I'm rather big on procrastination, and I don't need any games to avoid working on the thesis. Neither do these kids. They'll find something else to do, which would be inevitably more interesting than doing homework. There are many options available, one could argue on slashdot, get drunk with their underage friends, watch paint dry, or, hell, even read a book.
And finally, even if we ignore the above two points, his negative approach is still stupid. Positive reinforcement would've worked just as well if not much better, without attracting any of the criticism. Simply give kids discounts for good grades. I've seen this done in a local computer hardware store, and while the discount wasn't huge, it was a nice touch. Maybe make each subject graded above X points worth a 5pp discount, or something. The more good grades the kids have, the more games they can buy. Everybody wins.
So in conclusion, fuck that guy. I'm glad they put a stop to this retarded policy before it could spread anywhere.
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:5, Informative)
No one used the curve. Nor did anyone in college.
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as I know, this is only done when there are a lot of people (enough to get a good distribution) and even then typically only in very demanding disciplines (like medical school).
But some teachers will talk about a curve when they really mean that if everyone gets question #17 wrong then everyone's score will go up by x%
Another way I've heard people use it is when a teacher says he'll shift the top score in the class to 100% and whatever he has to add to the score will then also be added to every other student. For instance, the smartest kid in the class got a 92%. Then everyone in the class gets +8% added to their score.
I've seen a lot of variants to these types of "curves" but I've never had a true curve like the one I first described in any of the three colleges I've attended. That's not to say that no teacher in any of the schools I attended ever used a curve...perhaps some did...but I never was in their class nor did I ever hear of a fellow student complaining about it (and I heard lots of students complaining about all kinds of things in their classes).
I would be really surprised to hear of a high school or middle school that actually brought a kids score down because of a curve. Have you ever heard of a kid getting an 85 on a test but got an F because he happened to be on the low end of the curve (everyone else scored higher)? In my experience, if you did the work and followed the directions you were pretty much guaranteed a B- or higher. Every time I got lower or any of the people I knew got lower, it was because they didn't do an assignment, turned things in late on a regular basis, or something similar.
I imagine parents would go ballistic if their kid got a C or less in a class simply because, while they did the work well, others did it better.
You posted as an AC but if you do happen to read this, how were curves calculated and used in your undergraduate classes (and what was your major)?
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Props to the Gamestop guy for trying to bring some morality to this industry.
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Where am I now? Volition, Inc. I'm a game programmer.
Grades are bullshit, mostly. They're a measure of your desire to let the system mold you, your tolerance for menial busy-work, and your memorization skills. Not all classes are like that (very few at my college were, so I actually liked those classes and studied), but most public education is like that.
It's none of Gamestop's business what grades kids get. Leave the parenting to the parents.
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:5, Interesting)
Anyway, I studied for some AP tests and audited college classes until I could get into a university as a math major. I'm 16 now, in my senior year in college as a math major.
So let me get to the root of my anger. If someone had tried to make me "get off my ass and get responsible" when I was a 14 year old based on my grades, they would have not known that I skipped my Algebra class to sneak into Calculus lectures at a nearby university, or that I poured over Physics and Economics textbooks at home instead of performing pointless county mandated busy work at home.
I invested a lot of thought into my choices, and if he has any advice I will be happy to take it into consideration. But I highly resent any attempt to actively discriminate against me and make my life more difficult solely on the basis of something that does not affect anyone else but me.
The grades of his customers are not the business of this Manager, and I'm glad he was suspended.
Re:GREAT Business, GREAT sense (Score:5, Insightful)
While he did overstep he did so out of a legitimate concern. Normally we see something like this in a "moral" light, for instance a pharmacist who refuses to sell the morning after pill, which is completely wrong.
This man's stance was a desire to see parents involved in what their children were doing, more so than any punishment.
Because it's not his place to do so (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bad idea (Score:4, Insightful)
And when your local grocery store decides that they won't sell to you unless you can show a written confirmation from your local church that you have been there the last Sunday, is that still okay ? After all, being devote fundamentalist Christian, the grocer is convinced that you'll burn in Hell unless you convert, so he's simply being caring and trying to do right for you.
There is a huge difference between caring about people and trying to force your will on them, no matter how benevolent you think you're being. And traditionally, resource starvation has been one of the most efficient ways of coercion, as any army laying siege can tell you. Such enforcement might seem like it's nothing now because it's directed against kids and an unimportant resource; but even kids are human beings and shouldn't be subjected to arbitrary use of power by anyone who cares to do so. Besides, it's best to nip these things in the bud.
That, by the way, is also where the libertarian concept of "only physical force is coercion" falls flat on its face: I can kill you without ever lifting a finger against you if I control some vital resource.
Re:Bad idea (Score:4, Insightful)
when your local grocery store decides that they won't sell to you unless you can show a written confirmation from your local church that you have been there the last Sunday, is that still okay ?
No. Religion is explicitly prohibited as a reason for discrimination. What the manager did was not at all unconstitutional. If it was in violation of anything, it was corporate policy.
There is a huge difference between caring about people and trying to force your will on them, no matter how benevolent you think you're being.
There's also a huge difference between forcing your will on someone and refusing to do business with them. Namely, the former is generally illegal (with the exception of parent-child relationships) while the latter is perfectly reasonable, provided your business isn't a government protected monopoly like power or water.
I can kill you without ever lifting a finger against you if I control some vital resource.
True, which is why vital resources are protected by the government. Video games hardly fall into that category. Your argument of food is hypothetically valid, though in practice no single entity controls distribution, nor is the prospective buyer prohibited from growing/hunting his own, or going to a soup kitchen, etc. Aside from that, using your influence to deliberately cause or contribute to the death of someone else is clearly a criminal act, as is knowingly failing to prevent the death or egregious harm of another in the absence of danger to self or others. It's really a stretch to compare a sales policy on video games to willful disregard for life.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Bad idea (Score:4, Insightful)
The sort of customer GameStop Corp. wants (Score:5, Funny)
"So that's World or Mariocraft at $54.95, Halogen World at $54.95 and ECCH Sofa Soccer '08 at $54.95, with tax is um $202.45"
"Duh, how many twenties is that?"
"How many do you have, ah 12 or 13 should do."
"*drool* Dar, don't I get some change back?"
"Oh Certainly, let's see here's 1, 2, 3, say, what grade are you in?"
"Duh, 10."
"Ah, very good, where was I, oh yes, 10, 11, how old are you if you don't mind my asking?"
"Dur. I'm 16."
"Ah, I should have guessed, so let's see, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, there you go have a nice day! Enjoy your games!"
"Duh, oh boy will I! Buh bye!"
Local news on the fiasco (Score:5, Informative)
Before (Sep 13): Store only sells video games to kids with good grades [wfaa.com]. Wow, great guy, good publicity!
After (Sep 14): GameStop manager suspended after 'games for grades' policy [wfaa.com]. Hey, bad boy, hurt sales!
Fortunately, I don't feel the need to stop in at GameStop anyway. Not when the Dallas area has independent stores like Game Trade [thegametrade.com], with a bigger selection, better prices, more knowledgable staff, and a LAN room in the back.
Re:Local news on the fiasco (Score:5, Funny)
idiot (Score:4, Insightful)
really? (Score:3, Interesting)
He's an idiot because it's not his store (Score:4, Insightful)
Also it is stupid because it really isn't a store's job to play police over what people buy. If parents don't want their kids playing games, that is their responsibility. It isn't his responsibility to make that decision for them. Maybe a parent decides that Cs are good enough. Maybe their kid isn't all that bright and Cs are all they can do, and that's doing well for them and thus they are rewarded for it.
As I said: If you want to open a store based on this, go right ahead. However don't be surprised if you find your business suffers for it. If you choose to work for someone else as their representative, your duty is to do what they tell you. If their policy is "Sell to anyone who has the money," it is your duty to do that. You were not hired to play morality police, you were hired to do a job. If they had a policy prohibiting all sales to minors, it would be your duty to do that as well, even if it was costing them money.
I get real tired of people trying to play morality police with others. How about you decide how you and your family are going to live your lives, and I'll decide for me and mine?
Where's the story here? (Score:3, Interesting)
Now if he had made it a discount, it could have been a win-win. It would save the kid some money (and possibly be an incentive to work harder) and make good publicity for his store. But just stopping is bad business sense. The customer will just go elsewhere.
Re:Where's the story here? (Score:5, Interesting)
It doesn't have to be a legal or ethical violation to be news.
Lesson (Score:5, Insightful)
I wish more people in our society would learn this lesson. I'm old enough to not need a Mom to tell me what to do or not to do. Kids, on the other hand, already have a Mom and don't really need 50 of them.
This guy is an idiot (Score:4, Insightful)
If anybody thinks this guy is a good Samaritan or should be rewarded, you're living in your own little hippy infested lovey dovey moron world. He just made customers go another block to the 'other of a million' game stores and buy there for the same competitive price.
He also took away a pretty basic freedom / right from all of his younger customers. So maybe he's the one that needs to learn a lesson. I wish I lived close enough to refuse to buy anything from this store ever again. If the government instituted the same policy for merchants - there would be riots in the streets.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
No. (Score:3, Insightful)
It's completely insane to deny a sale to anyone for any criteria other than that which makes them eligible to own (i.e. you can't buy this m-rated game because you are 4 years old, or you only have $7). I mean, that's like saying "Sorry, you can't buy this car because you work at McDonalds. I don't care if you can pay in full in cash right now, have great credit, etc, etc."
Having the opposite policy (as some seem to be suggesting) would have been equally as bad. A discount for good grades is just as discriminatory; "Sorry, Mr. Gates, we can't sell you this Toyota - you'll have to go to the Porche dealer down the street."
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
The real problem I see with this is 16-18 yr olds (Score:5, Insightful)
Great idea, bad implementation (Score:5, Insightful)
Failed exam = free vodka (Score:5, Funny)
Those were the days...
Bad rap (Score:5, Interesting)
"It's not his job to be those kids mom". Yep, you are right. So mom could lie and say he got good grades, or just buy her idiot son (with a promising future in the fast food service industry) the latest game. Problem solved.
I don't have a problem with what he was doing, though I think he would have been in a better position to offer discounts for good grades.
I also don't have a problem with certain types of games requiring an adult to purchase them. Again, it's not the store deciding if the kid gets the game or not. The parent will make the ultimate decision. Without the limitation, the parent doesn't get any say.
Oh, for you idiot teenagers with mod points today that will be modding me down as flamebait or a troll. Kiss my ass. You'll have kids one day. Your entire attitude will change.
Note to dad: Uhm, you remember when I was a teenager and was a complete asshole. I'm sorry about that. You were right.
Re:They can just say that they fired him for lack (Score:5, Insightful)
There's a high probability that they don't have to give him any reason why they let him go. Honestly, while this might be great and all in theory, I don't see why GameStop wouldn't act the way they did, it would be different if this guy owned his own store and was instituting his own policy. When you work for corporate America you follow the proper channels or you end up like this poor bastard.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, it's against the corporatist attitude that you went way overboard trying to defend. But it was a
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If he gets parents'
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Weird Angle (Score:4, Informative)
Re:MODULATE PARENT RATIO (Score:4, Interesting)
You know what? There's an old saying: "It takes a village to raise a child"
Fat jokes aside, that's substantially true. It seems to me that before everyone went lawsuit-happy, other adults that didn't even *know* a kid would tell them to stop doing something (assuming they were being miscreants), and maybe even drag them home by the ear to their parents.
Now, we have one of the very first responses to an article about a guy that was worried about kids wasting too much time on video games and not enough on homework displaying an attitude that suggests that he not only doesn't have children, but that he doesn't give a crap about how any prospective children he might have will do in school.
I love that idea...of course, if my kids aren't getting good grades, they're usually doing a lot of homework and complaining that dad gets to play video games, but they have to do homework...
It probably doesn't make good business sense, especially in this day and age, for a manager to try and make that kind of decision on his own, and I have no problem with GameStop for firing him...social engineering isn't his job. I get that. On the other hand, if said manager opened a similar store nearby on his own, and with the same policy, I'd probably shop there instead of GameStop.
If you think this is a reward or punishment, you're nuts. And "socialists" would have made a lot more sense than "communists" in your bold declaration.