MMO Bans Men Playing As Women

jkcity writes "In a bizarre move Aurora Technology the owners of the King of the World MMORPG has taken the unusual step of banning men who play women characters but the ban itself does not stretch to women playing men. If you want to play as a woman now in game you have to prove you are a women via web cam. This is something that people ask for in many mmorpgs I myself have seen people say people who play women in EVE online as being some kind of degenerate but how long can a policy of verification by web cam last since its so easy to get around it doesn't seem to solve much and is an insult to many."

So that means...

no role playing in a Role Playing Game?

Re:So that means...

That means one of the admins found out his online girlfriend was a 50 year old guy from Brooklyn.

Re:So that means...

50-year-old guys from Brooklyn can be pretty tasty.

Re:So that means...

Actually once somebody gets over 40 years old they start to become a tougher bite and require longer roasting and more sauce. I prefer females between 15 and 20 years old, they are flavorful and tender although some of them excercise a lot and then their organs are the best parts. There was once this census maker, I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti...

Re:So that means...

I prefer females between 15 and 20 years old...

Who doesn't?!?

Re:So that means...

Gary Glitter

Re:So that means...

That means one of the admins found out his online girlfriend was a 50 year old guy from Brooklyn.

Hey c'mon, how was I supposed to know that Slutzilla was a man!?

Re:So that means...

No powergamers either. Min/maxers pick girl characters (assuming no stat drop) because:

*You can get free stuff with minimal effort.
*You don't spend 30+ hours a week staring at the cartoon picture of a guy's ass.

Re:So that means...

Yes, I play MMO's to escape my daily monotony. Staring at polygon guy Nalgas is not escaping , it breaks my imersion.

Re:So that means...

You'd rather spend 30+ hours a week getting your cartoon ass stared at by other guys?

You know, I'd played female tabletop RPG characters with about equal frequency as male PCs for years, without having to worry about that. If the other players at the table bothered me "in that way," a quick shocking grasp or heat metal to the codpiece set them straight.

But my first female toon in WoW was a bank alt, and I dressed her in her undies and a buccaneer's shirt, cuz she looked good in them. Then I noticed other toons standing around and gawking at her.

And you know, I finally felt what most women must have to learn to deal with when they grow bewbs.

And the second revalation is that it only took me about 60 seconds to get over it, and ignore it. It's their problem, not mine.

So, I say, let cross-gender roleplaying happen. It's educational.

Re:So that means...

My one gender-bending MMO experience in City of Heroes was an enormous eye-opener.

One day, when the game was still new and fun, I grouped with a bunch of guys using my main character, a male blaster. I was the highest level of the bunch, and the group lead, so I handled the tactics, the coordination, the works. It was a blast, mostly because the guys I worked with were attentive, on-the-ball, and focused.

A few weeks later I ran into these guys and formed these guys up for a group again. Big difference, though; I was playing a one of my wife's alts -- "Bealzu-Babe" -- and was, in game, "female". I decided, just for kicks, not to tell them who I was.

As before, I was the highest level of the group, and it was my team. Big difference, though; the guys didn't listen to me. They ignored my calls, did their own thing, and in the end even insulted me. Only when I told them who I was (and that I was leveling my wife's alt) did they start listening again.

When I told my wife this she just smiled and said "Now you know what it's like for me in the game."

The bottom line here is that I actually learned something from playing a female character. It's not something I think I'd do again -- I felt pretty silly, and got tired of being gawked at -- but I still would like to have the option.

Re:So that means...

I was astonished the first time some random guy opened a trade window and gave me stuff out of the blue.

All my WoW toons are female with the exception of one bank alt. The main reason is I don't think much of the male avatars as a general rule.

At RPG tournament level I've probably played more male than female characters - due mostly to the fact that game designers often didn't include female characters in the senarios. Or if they did they were T&A fluff.

My RPG campaign characters are mostly female because it's easier for me that way. Though I've had a few male characters along the way.

The guys I play tabletop RPGs with play a mix of male and female toons. It only pisses me off when one guy in particular always tried to play ugly chicks obsessed with getting impregnated by the heir of any particular kingdom we happen to be in at a the time. Not sure what that says about his view of women.

Re:So that means...

Point #2 is my reason for not playing male characters. I don't role play or anything, I just make a female character so I don't have to listen to a guy grunt and moan all day long. It wasn't until recently that I was surprised by the number of people who immediately assume your character female = you are = I should start cybering you. Kinda quit playing most MMORPGs after that.

Re:So that means...

...and in related news, Blizzard has announced that players will now have to prove they are Orcs before being allowed to play one in World of Warcraft.

Re:So that means...

...and in related news, Blizzard has announced that players will now have to prove they are Orcs before being allowed to play one in World of Warcraft.

That shouldn't be hard for about half of them.

Re:So that means...

Proving they're ugly should be easy. It's proving their strong or brave that's the tough issue.

Re:So that means...

You're thinking of Trolls, not Orcs.

Re:So that means...

So if I want to play a troll do I have to show them my modded down posts?

Re:So that means...

Sure ... if you're a woman ... for now.

More proposed rules:
  - only black people may have black avatars
  - only elves may play elves
  - if you want STR over 10 you have to bench press 100lbs on webcam
  - if you wish your character to speak another language, you must submit a request in writing, in that language, to the admins
  - if your CHA is over 15 you can pretty much do what you want, after you seduce one of our admins

Re:So that means...

- if you wish your character to speak another language, you must submit a request in writing, in that language, to the admins

I think you are seriously under estimating geekdom if you think that writing a letter in elf/orc/dwarf is going to hold back many mmo players.

Re:So that means...

I tend to play female characters in the RPGs because it is my perception that the programmers put special twists in to try and get more of the female market. I don't know if I'm just deluded or not, but it seems to be true.

At any rate, what is to stop me, or anyone with a girlfriend or wife, from a quick substitution for the webcam. My wife would think this rule is ridiculous and do it in a heartbeat.

More to the point though, I have to agree with the Parent here... Its a FREAKING RPG. Let people Role Play in the Game as they see fit.

Re:So that means...

Makes you wonder exactly what body parts they want you to put on camera. Imagine the humiliation if a woman is refused because she allegedly has a mannish face-- so they want "more proof".

Re:It's.. PAT

The first thing I thought of was the Saturday Night Live Skit with "PAT".

Re:So that means...

What is to stop a guy that plays a female character in RPGs from just getting his girlfriend or wife from helping?

I'd think that playing female characters in RPGs would be a good enough deterrent.

Re:So that means...

Exactly! If they want they could just add a basic player profile where you have to indicate your real body's gender. With that any player could then check to see the if the other person behind the character is really a man or a woman. I wouldn't mind having to indicate my real age and gender, if that means I could be whoever I wanted to be in the game.

Actually, revealing age scares me even more! I still love video games and mmorpg's in particular, but skew significantly older than the core demographic. What does that mean? It means getting party invites becomes one hell of a lot harder when you're old enough to be the party leader's dad! Online games are a great way to have fun with others who share a common interest, but too many details from real life would just get in the way of that. I have to be an old guy in real life everyday, do I have to do that in online games too? I hope not!

Yes, you are deluded. But partially right.

I'm a female gameplay programmer, and I have played both male and female avatars, on numerous games. I'd have to say that the only "special twist" most games put in for female avatars is the very special power of not looking like a warthog's arse. Yes, game developers would like to attract more female players, but we aren't stupid. We know that a lot of the people playing female avatars are men. Why would we reward people for choosing a more attractive butt to look at while they played? There are much better ways to attract females to a game than that. Honestly.

Though, rest assured, your theory doesn't make me think any less of you. It's perfectly normal for people to imagine all manner of voodoo lurking in the gameplay mechanics of their favorite games. This is due to a combination of magical thinking [wikipedia.org] and the brain's natural response to the sort of variable reward schedules you find in these games. In short, the human brain is exquisitely good at pattern matching, but is particularly prone to false positives, so we occasionally develop intense faith in patterns that just aren't there. Even knowing all this, I find myself doing the same thing, sometimes.

That said, though, your primary point should not be diminished. Demanding that people don't cross-play is every bit as silly as demanding that the players of spellcasters really be able to cast spells. It's a goddamn escapist fantasy world. So, let people escape!

However, even more important than that, the fact that many female avatars are played by men right now is actually protective, in a way. Sexual anonymity curtails a great deal of potential sexual harassment. When the genders are outed, an abusive person's targets are clear. I expect that this change will make the game completely unplayable for their real female players.

Re:So that means...

Just put on your robe and wizard hat. What you do after that is up to you.

Oblig.

http://bash.org/?104383 [bash.org]

Re:So that means...

"If you want to play as a woman now in game you have to prove you are a woman via web cam." This is a ridiculous comment. The population will become almost 100% male. Not just because all the men can't play as women, but because the women will find it too intrusive or perhaps too much of a hassle to have themselves screened by some total stranger. W.T.F? Way to alienate the demographic that is frequently being targeted for inclusion. They may as well not bother wasting the game developers time creating these female avatars in the first place. Though perhaps having avoided myspace and facebook, I'm out of the loop, and people now-a-days voluntarily show themselves off online to strangers.

Re:So that means...

The problem I forsee if there is the thought that only women are playing female characters is that anyone with a female character will be harrassed. As it is now, the more perverse among the male MMO population show at least a little restraint, because they know the odds are that the "she" is actually a "he". Basically, being able to make a female avatar after verifying that you are really female sets up female characters to be targets of all sorts of unsavory advances. Women have enough of that in real life, they shouldn't have to be the target of it in a game.

Unless, of course, they want to be

There's only one solution to this...

Time to become a transsexual.

Re:There's only one solution to this...

Let us know if you pull it off.

Re:There's only one solution to this...

I've been told it's a little more complicated than just doing that.

Why?

If I am playing a MMORPG, I am going to be spending a lot of time looking at my avatar. Why can't my avatar be something I like looking at?

Re:Why?

Very well said. I don't want to spend 8 hours a day starring at some MALE avatars butt. To each his own, but I play a female because I'm /not/ deviant and because I'm not a gay man.

How insecure do you have to be to have your sexuality threated by a male avatar in a freaking ROLE PLAYING game? You're either gay or you aren't. Looking at a male avatar doesn't make you gay.

When I first explained this to my friends, and they realized they have spent days upon days looking at a male characters butt, they switched as well.

Are all your friends 14 years old?

I've heard some good practical reason to play as a woman (free shit from other players, for example), but feeling insecure about looking at a male avatar? WTF?

-matthew

Re:Why?

You speak truth. Of course, I guess it depends on how much you identify with your character.

I've found that I'm generally a step further away than some people - I don't identify the character as myself, or myself as my character. I'm more like the controller types you see in some advanced military movies. You know, where there's a guy sitting in a trailor/room somewhere with a bunch of video and status screens sending directions to the soldier who's actually in the field.

Re:Why?

If I am playing a MMORPG, I am going to be spending a lot of time looking at my avatar. Why can't my avatar be something I like looking at?

Because a giant disembodied floating set of knockers would be distracting for the other players.

Interesting excuse ...

... for the Aurora guys to look at gamer girls on their webcams.

Re:Interesting excuse ...

[excuse] for the Aurora guys to look at gamer girls on their webcams.

what gamer girls? :)

Re:Interesting excuse ...

I think that plan might backfire when they realize a great many "gamer girls" are hambeasts. Seriously, were they expecting their own private version of GamerGirlz or whatever?

Re:Interesting excuse ...

Seriously, that does sound a bit pervy. "Ok, now, take off your shirt and bra, we need to be sure they're real. Ok, now stand up and take off the rest, then turn about real slow like... yah, that's it, yes, we are becoming convinced."

That's not it

I think it actually goes something like this:

"TITS OR GTFO"

Re:Interesting excuse ...

actually, given the myriad of medical causes, genital examination is not a reliable method for determining someones sex.

Intersex conditions (where a persons chromosomes are not XX or XY) will often cause ambiguous genitals, at what point does a very small penis become a very large clitoris? at what point does a shallow vagina become a divided scrotum? If the medical community has problems reaching a consensus on this, what hope does a computer admin?

Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (AIS) can cause a genetically healthy male (XY) to develop as a perfectly healthy female. The bodily changes that occur in vitro require the androgens (male hormones) from the mother to find the proper receptors in the fetus' cells... if those receptors are either missing or nonfunctional then the body will continue along its default path (female). Often, those with total AIS do not even find out about it until they discover they are infertile. Partital AIS can result in anything from the appearance of a masculine female to that of a effeminate male with genitals ranging from one to the other.

Add in the huge number of pre-operative or non-operative transgender folk and the number of people that have genitals that match their genetic sex or their mental gender is far less then most people realize.

Ridiculous

I've played male and female chars in mmo's and have had no problems. It depends on the person playing, if they are going to cause trouble they are going to cause trouble no matter what gender.

Also, no matter how hard you beg the developer, that hot elven chick just won't be that way in real life. And this step doesn't get you closer to that.

Just watch...

...as suddenly, the in-game populations turn to about 80% male, 20% female.

And that's a conservative guess...I bet most would skew it even more towards male players.

Re:Just watch...

I would guess it will trend toward 99.999% male. What geek-girl that you know of would go through the hassle of letting some anonymous geek-admin see her real face just to have the honor of logging in with a female avatar, then becoming the target of cyber-sexual harassment because the perps _know_ you're female? They'd be better off just removing female avatars.

Punctuation is your friend

This is something that people ask for in many mmorpgs I myself have seen people say people who play women in EVE online as being some kind of degenerate but how long can a policy of verification by web cam last since its so easy to get around it doesn't seem to solve much and is an insult to many.

Maybe the mods are to blame for that, but wow.

Mom is a woman! Easy fix...

If it's just a one-time webcam thing, the people who are really desperate can have their mom or sister appear on the webcam for them. Even Grandma Nana counts as a woman!

Idiotic

This is a role playing game. One of the attributes of a role is gender. And you get to choose. I play WoW and I have both male and female chars. This is quite normal IMO. You fond out the true gender of somebody when having them in voice chat. You can be friends with them and adventure together before/without that.

Also would this one-sided policy not directly violate anti-discrimination laws? Seems to me it does.

Perverted admins

Yah sure, they want webcams for all the female characters to "verify their gender". What you missed in your article is the fine print:

Webcam rules:

1.) Webcam image quality must be sufficient to see subject clearly.
2.) No objects should be placed so as to obstruct at least the top half of the body.
3.) Subject should be nude.
4.) No fatties.

Re:Perverted admins

Is #4 to defeat the man-8oobs issue?

Re:Doesn't work...

How bad is the PR going to be when they peg an ugly woman for a guy? ;)

~S

Oh man, now I can't fake being smart

So can I not be a 400 year-old wise mage, when I'm neither old, nor wise?

Greater crowds than ever...

And all of a sudden, female avatars started gathering more male players than ever before trying to get them into their multiplayer party, and harass them with guild recruitments. :-p

Street Fighter

So there was something unaccepatble about me playing as Chun Li in SF2 so many years ago?

So how do you "role play" this?

Like, there are going to be some existing male-as-female players, and to bring them in line with the policy, you'd have to make the female avatar male. Doesn't an RPG have to have some storyline reason for this?

(If they're planning to "grandfather" ["grandmother?"] existing male-as-female avatars, that'll probably create even more problems for them.)

It does get kind of creepy

When Sexybabe88, the Night Elf Priestess, gets on vent and sounds like the guy from "Saw"... my heart breaks a little every time it happens :(

Why is that "degenerate"?

AFAIK there's not significant roleplaying in most MMORPGs.

So, say you're a straight guy and not into role playing. Why would you prefer looking at a male character for hours? Usually the camera position in such games would be _behind_ the character, so you'd be staring at the male character's ugly back or butt for hours ;).

While the male characters are unlikely to be as bad as goatse.cx, given the larger numbers of males in the game developing industry - I'm sure the female characters are going to look better than the male ones ;).

If I control an animal, robot, car or vehicle in a game, I sure don't expect it to resemble me.

Hey look...

A little known MMO that I have never heard of has pulled a publicity stunt and gotten some free coverage from Slashdot. What what what? Slashdot is there target demographic. Congratulations sirs PT Barnum would be proud.

 

Hobgoblins: "Let's Talk Women"

Crow T. Robot: Aaaah, women. Women, women, women, women, women, women, women. Ha-ha-ha-ha. For you young fellows, fresh on the cusp of a blooming manhood, the questions are abound: What are women like? What do women want? How should I treat a women[sp!]? Perhaps the thorniest problem facing any young man is finding a woman in the first place! It turns out to be... nearly impossible! This reporter spent countless hours searching for a woman, like these pictured here:

[clips of Hobgoblins, with Amy and Daphne in them]

Crow T. Robot: ...to no avail. The nearest we came during a tense stakeout was this fellow:

[a clip of Mike Nelson biting into a sandwich,]

Crow T. Robot: ...who experts believe, is not a woman. We begin to wonder, where are all the women? The over-heated references in poetry, the images that dominate our media, is it all an elaborate fraud? This grainy photograph is the only direct evidence we have of a woman in her natural environment:

[A black and white, Bigfoot-like photo of a large woman in a forest]

Crow T. Robot: The longer hair, the gentle and nurturing demeanor are typical of how witnesses describe their supposed encounters with women. This footprint...

[Crow stands beside a clay model of a huge Bigfoot-sized footprint]

Crow T. Robot: ...while possibly the work of jokesters, is another piece of the puzzle! And it is hard to discount this man's terrifying story!

Mustachioed Crow T. Robot: Then... uh... this woman - I think it was a woman... she... uh... married me.

Crow T. Robot: [off-screen as interviewer] Did you have any children, sir?

Mustachioed Crow T. Robot: I don't remember!

Crow T. Robot: Some day perhaps, an actual woman will emerge, and they will no longer exist only in the realm of myth and maybe. Thank You.

Simple fix

Sex: M/F
Real-life sex: M/F

Will have to veryify via webcam

So, if you're a guy, especially with a big beard and a deep voice verify anyway.

"But you're a guy"
"How dare you sir!"
"But you have a beard"
"And I'm a little sensitive about it. I'd rather you didn't mention it"
"And a deep voice"
"Yes. A lot of people comment on that."
"I'm not convinced you're a woman"
"I'll strip naked for you to prove it if you prefer"
"Yikes! No. That won't be neccesary. Thankyou for verifying you gender. Have a nice day, maam".

TG's

Erm, what about transgendered individuals, such as your mother?

No more metroid...

Guess I can't play Metroid any more or I'll be a degenerate. Guess I had better not accept Princess Peach as a randomly generated character in Mario Kart either. Better not accept any randomly generated Wii characters either.
What a load of crap. It's fantasy - a game for goodness sake. My guess is really some loser who runs the service just wants to look at pictures of the people playing women characters.

Playing gender roles

ROFL My Waffles, I actually did a report in a college class on gender about gender selection in MMOs...

Out of about 6 or so people interviewed, the most common reasons given for playing as female were:
  - Male characters are ugly in many games
  - People (males) give you free stuff if you're a female character, especially a newbie
  - People are more likely to help you if you're an attractive female character
  - Females get better looking clothes
  - Men want to look at an attractive avatar, and don't necessarily think of it as being themselves
  - Females want to play an attractive character, or like the clothes a female char gets, but don't necessarily think of it as being themselves

Reasons people don't like playing female:
  - Guys hit on you constantly
  - Occasional stalkers
  - Many female avas are overtly sexual or 'slutty'
  - Female avas don't look tough or 'butch' even as warrior-types

One female gamer said that when asked her gender while playing her female char, she tells people she's a guy because that gets them to stop bothering her. WHen she plays as a male, she tells them her real gender because that also freaks them out. The people I talked to basically just want to play the game, and don't like having sexual or gendered attitudes imposed on them, so I wonder what they will think of this.

This move by the company really seems like implicitly supporting the idea of using MMOs as a hook-up site, instead of a fantasy realm, so I doubt it will be popular among the people I talked to.

Study: Half of Female Avatars are Men

Researcher Nick Yee runs the Daedalus Project [nickyee.com], which researches the psychology of MMMORPGs. Here's his findings on gender-bending:

Men are 3-5 times more likely than women to gender-bend in MMORPGs. The demographic that is most likely to gender-bend are men over the age of 25. We know that 85% of MMORPG players are male, so if you do the math, at any given moment, half of all female avatars are actually being played by men.

If you're interested, you can read the details of Nick's research [nickyee.com], along with an earlier study of gender switching in Everquest [nickyee.com].

New Business Opportunity

Playerauction: Selling VERIFIED female character account Have all the fun you want cybering the innocent teenager who KNOWS you're a true female sharing his love! Only $1000

I remember one time...

One time I was playing a female character in the Lineage 2 beta (terrible game, by the way) and partied with some random folk. After a bit of grinding, one of my party members said the following: Him: "Hey, are you single?" Me: "Yeah." Him: "Ohhh! Cool! Cause I need me a gaming wife." Me: "... I'm male." Him: "WHAT? YOU FAG!!" That is my story.

Just wondering. Are ugly people expected to...

...choose an ugly avatar? And pretty people a pretty avatar? Because, I've noticed there's usually a huge disparity between the two. How about obese for obese? Super-obese for super-obese?

The point is to escape a crappy reality.

Silver Lining ?

Most of the posts here are skewing condemnatory of this goofball policy, and I agree. However, maybe there's a bright side. If the playerbase actually go through this verification process (big if), it would offer a rare opportunity to observe macroscopic differences in how men and women behave in MMOs. Do women tend to tank less and heal more? Do they tend to cluster together in all-female guilds? etc.

Oh man

I can see it now...

"Ok, we're having a problem here."
'What? I thought you said my webcam is working?'
"Yeeeah. The problem is that we still can't tell if you're a woman."

This won't end well.

On the "I stare at my avatar..." arguments

I'm a guy and I play Final Fantasy XI as a male character, a Tarutaru paladin who looks absolutely adorable if I do say so myself. Of course, the cuteness factor was a big part of my decision, but in spite of how relatively androgynous Tarutaru tend to appear to the untrained eye, I still picked a male avatar, one of the ones that's more recognizably male.

Am I sexually attracted to my own avatar? No. But what I am sexually attracted to are all the female avatars (and the female players behind them) that are drawn to my male avatar. I'm so cute that I've lost track of the number of times a woman has asked me to stop so she could get a picture taken with me, and if I'm sitting around in a crowded town long enough, at least one random woman (often two or three, as they bring their friends) will come up to me, gush over how cute I am and start to tease and play with me a little.

Granted, being "cute" rather than "butch" means a higher percentage of those female avatars are controlled by female players, but in general, being a male avatar gives me a far greater opportunity to meet, talk to and flirt with women than I would otherwise, something that simply wouldn't happen if I had chosen to play as a hot chixx0rz. And if you're truly a straight guy, isn't that the most important part?

Unless, of course, you get a sexual thrill out of having to disappoint lustful guys...

Degenerates for the win!

Stand-in for the web-cam? Thank goodness I've got one chained to the wall in the basement right now.

Fitting name for the company...

The parent company of Aurora Technology is called Shanda Entertainment. 'Shanda' is the Yiddish word for "shame or embarrassment."

Re:finally

"But it's kinda stupid cuz the actual females playing as females do that too."

Well, that's what females do in real life; use their feminine wiles to their advantage. ;)

But your complaint is absurd. If one is unable to resist the feminine wiles of an online-character, then it's his own fault, not fault of the the person playing the female character.

I've known many that have played characters of the player's opposite sex (both men playing as women and women playing as men), and I see no problem with it. The whole point of playing RPGs (either multi-player or single-player) is to get to assume a role you could never assume in real life. The ability to choose your character's gender, ethnicity, etc, goes along with that.

This business of requiring webcams for anyone playing as a woman is the stupidest thing I've heard of in a long time.