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UT3 Won't Feature Cross Play Capability

Posted by Zonk on Thu Sep 27, 2007 02:20 PM
from the stick-to-your-roots dept.
Entertainment Games
Next Generation is reporting on comments from Epic's Mark Rein, who participated in an IRC chat with some members of the Unreal community recently. In the chat, Rein revealed that Unreal Tournament 3 will not feature the ability for PS3 and PC players to compete on the same servers. Said Rein, "We looked at how this would impact our ability to respond quickly to things happening at internet speed on the PC side of the equation and realized that this would not be in the best interests of our very loyal PC userbase because we would constantly be holding on to updates to wait until they passed cert on the console platform. Our PC fanbase is of ultimate importance to us. They are our bread and butter. We can't let them down or compromise their experience in any way to accommodate cross platform play."
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  • What?!? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by LinuxGeek (6139) * <linuxgeekNO@SPAMdjand.com> on Thursday September 27 2007, @02:21PM (#20771729)
    So, does this mean that they don't "have a lengthy certification process" for PC patches? What is the real problem anyway? If they need feature and update parity between PC and console versions, then just keep doing what they already do: don't let systems with different versions play each other, but if users (Xbox360, PS3 and PC) have the same version, then let them play! Also, they plan [linux-gamers.net] a linux client version. Will linux users not be able to play against PC users either?

    The proposed brick wall between the different platform users would make this a pointless purchase for me because I would want to play against some friends that use consoles. I wonder if this would also mixed prevent lan play?

    • Re:What?!? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Necreia (954727) on Thursday September 27 2007, @02:24PM (#20771775)
      PC patches don't require Sony's blessing-- that's the deal with it.

        • Re:What?!? (Score:5, Informative)

          by DarkMantle (784415) on Thursday September 27 2007, @10:39PM (#20777801) Homepage

          OK, I've been following the UT3 development as closely as I can since UT 2004 came out. Now Let me summarize what I've read/heard/watched on several interviews and blogs (with Epic Employees.)

          • Cross platform play is dropped for above stated reason. It works fine in the development lab but Sony must "bless" the patch before release and for the PC once it passes Epics testing it's good.
          • 360 is delayed because of limitations of XBOX Live. On PC and PS3 custom maps can be downloaded from the host server. 360 only allows downloads from Live download servers, so it needs Microsoft's "blessing"
          • Dedicated servers for PS3 will run on any standard PC, so you can host the server on a PC for your friends to play on even if you're PS3 is off. (this should also be true for 360, but was not commented on)
          • The requirements for PC and PS3 dedicated servers has not increased much since UT2Kx, but the map textures and meshes have more detail so more RAM is recommended
          • PS3 version of UT3 will support Keyboard and mouse. (I've not heard about 360 version support)
          • I repeat. Cross platform play works in the dev lab so It's due to patch certifications that they are not allowing it.

          That said, Epic has a history of listening to the community, raise a stink on the forums and they may add it in a patch. Also If you post about the different version restrictions, it's similar to UT2Kx where if I'm running a certain version server, and you have a different client we can't connect, so It is a valid idea.

          If microsoft Live servers weren't so restricted all 3 platforms would launch at the same time. If you're a console gamer and want to make maps, then you will need to buy the PC version as well as your console version. IIRC you will be able to browse UT3 download sites for maps to directly on the PS3, but I may be wrong on that part.

    • No, there is not a "lengthy certification process" required before you are allowed to release things on a PC. You just distribute it and tell users to install it.

      However, if you want to release for the PS3 you need to run everything past Sony first. That is what takes time.

      Will linux users not be able to play against PC users either?

      Dunno what hardware you run Linux on to play games, but I for one use a PC.

      Quibbling aside, there is, suprisingly, no authority who has to check everything released on Linux

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by bcmm (768152)
          I think the issue is that the console version will lag far behind the PC version, and like nearly any multiplayer FPS, and exact version match is required to play.

          If people run servers supporting both PCs and consoles, then when an update comes out for the PC, they'll have to choose whether to upgrade and lose the console players till the console upgrades, or wait for the console upgrades, and lose the PC players who eventually update because all the other servers have.

          Or, worse, you could get a situation

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by davermont (1001265)

      Will linux users not be able to play against PC users either?

      Of course they will. Windows and Linux support the same computer architectures and implement the same network protocols. The biggest reason most game developers don't support Linux is because most games are developed using the Microsoft's DirectX graphics libraries. The Unreal Tournament series, as well as the Quake series, have always supported OpenGL, a set of open graphics libraries. Hence the name. Plus, I doubt that the server you will be playing on will be running Windows anything.

      • Re:What?!? (Score:5, Informative)

        by LinuxGeek (6139) * <linuxgeekNO@SPAMdjand.com> on Thursday September 27 2007, @02:48PM (#20772083)
        I thought it was more widely known that the PS3 version will support keyboard and mouse [ign.com] play. One of the reasons I finally bought a console for gaming.

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by LinuxGeek (6139) *

            Do you buy consoles for other purposes?
            My PS3 spends a bunch of time Folding@Home [stanford.edu] and also runs Ubuntu pretty well if you setup swap space. Under linux, it works well for playing media types that Sony doesn't want to support, like xvid, divx and ogg vorbis files.

      • Re:What?!? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by nuzak (959558) on Thursday September 27 2007, @03:01PM (#20772319) Journal
        I think you'll be surprised. There's a generation of kids out there who pull off headshots every time using just the analog stick on high sensitivity. And analog sticks beat WASD for movement every time. Obviously some kind of hybrid controller is the answer (and there is one for the PS3, though the name escapes me)

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by nuzak (959558)
            You're probably right. I still maintain that a stick beats WASD, and there are some kids freakishly good with the sticks, but the majority of people are better with the mouse. But really, if it's fun, it's fun, and the incoherent screaming of hypercompetitive Greater Internet Fuckwads (not accusing you, you're actually quite civil about it) about their control scheme serves only to amuse in a Jerry Springer kind of way.

            Still, while I do find both console and PC shooters to be fun on their own merits, I am

  • Well, the problem is also (Score:4, Insightful)

    by zsouthboy (1136757) on Thursday September 27 2007, @02:24PM (#20771777)
    That console owners wouldn't have much fun getting owned by people that are playing with kb/mouse - so it also makes sense.

    On the other hand, :(

    • Re:Well, the problem is also (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Mattintosh (758112) on Thursday September 27 2007, @02:30PM (#20771847)
      See, I was hoping for some epic battles between the Halo-obsessed frat-boy types on consoles vs. the diehard PC gamer types with the kb/mouse. I would be among the PC crowd bringing down some fire and brimstone upon the console twits.

      It was going to be like a flamewar, only with guns.

      Damn you, Epic! Damn you! (shakes fist)

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by svendsen (1029716)
          Ya but ya know what? It's still fun and hasn't stopped millions of people doing it (mario kart is another example on the n64, gamecube).
  • Honestly, it's not fun to play against mouse users with a controller. I prefer controller FPS's, since aiming is more of a challenge and I feel strategy comes into play more than point-click.
  • Also worth thinking about is that responsiveness with a mouse keyboard is far greater than with a game pad. This would give anyone using a PC a definite advantage over console players.

    I seem to remember hearing that when they ported Halo to the PC they had to take out a delay the enemies had in firing so it would be more challenging.

  • Console vs PC = bad idea for developers (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Delusion_ (56114) on Thursday September 27 2007, @02:35PM (#20771927)
    The first time a group of fairly talented console players meet up with a group of fairly talented PC players in a first-person shooter, the limitations of a console controller versus the flexibility of a mouse are going to become painfully obvious.

    When I played Halo on an Xbox (not a lengthy play session, admittedly), it felt like I was playing wearing mittens.

    There's something to be said about having your mouse set almost fast enough for the cursor to register your pulse - because in an FPS, being able to do a quick 360 in midair in a fraction of a second is the difference between getting a kill and being a kill.

    This could lead players to assume that the PC is the platform to be on, much to the detriment of console game sales and rentals.

    I don't have a use for consoles - I dislike the limitations and the controllers have been horrendous since the days of the Atari 2600 and don't care much for the kind of games that consoles do better than PCs, so while I admit I might be short-changing the console side a little, that's my take.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by HazE_nMe (793041)
      That might also get console makers/developers to support a keyboard/mouse-style controller for consoles.
      To tell you the truth I would seriously consider buying a console (or three) if I could game with a keyboard/mouse-style (doesn't need to be a qwerty keyboard just a WASD-style) controller.

  • Well... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by (arg!)Styopa (232550) on Thursday September 27 2007, @02:36PM (#20771935) Journal
    Well, that and the fact that PC gamers would either utterly OWN console players, or they'd have to add in such an aggressive and compensatory aim-assist in the consoles that the PC players would refuse to play.

    Of course, the tinfoil hatter in me speculates that the console MAKERS wouldn't have much incentive to support/encourage a product that would illustrate to their players how really crippled they are by the control systems....but that's just nuts, right?

    No, no, I'm SURE it's just about them supporting their loyal fanbase and not wanting to wait for console-certification. Sure it is.

  • Let's not forget... (Score:4, Informative)

    by Locriology (1097777) on Thursday September 27 2007, @02:46PM (#20772057)
    ...that PS3 UT3 players are not limited to the SIXAXIS controller [kotaku.com]. So there will still be keyboard-over-controller domination.

  • Try to keep up, people (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Senjutsu (614542) on Thursday September 27 2007, @02:51PM (#20772149)
    All the "well you wouldn't want them to compete anyways, because keyboard 0wnz controller" posters would do well to remember that keyboard/mouse support has already been confirmed for the PS3 version of UT3.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Senjutsu (614542)

        Until a console ships with a keyboard and a mouse, most users of that console will not have one.

        Yeah, keyboards and mice are notoriously hard to come by. There's only a pair of those in most every household in the country.

        This has been proven over and over in the marketplace - keyboard addons for consoles have never met with success. The only way to ensure adoption is to force the issue on every model, even (especially!) on the low-end, or else the console keyboard and mouse will continue to be a niche product that most people aren't even aware exists, much less want to buy.

        UT3 isn't shipping with support for some proprietary Sony keyboard, it's shipping with straight up "plug any USB keyboard or mouse into the damn USB ports on the front of the console" support. And USB keyboards and mice are not "niche peripherals"

  • EPIC is making the right call on this... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Ang31us (1132361) on Thursday September 27 2007, @02:58PM (#20772273) Homepage
    You're all absolutely correct about mouse versus joystick for aiming and turning.

    The other point to consider is that the entire Unreal series has been heavily modded by the PC gaming community...I recall nude skins and even black skins (invisible in the dark, except for the sniper bullets that fly off you), Simpsons mods, Mario Brothers mods, The Matrix mods, Aliens mods, etc.

    Imagine the Republican uproar in Congress (e.g. Lieberman, McCain, et tu Clinton?) or the Florida courts (Jack Thompson) about little Johnny seeing a nude girl jumping around and shooting him while playing on his console...I say screw that. Keep the kiddies with their consoles locked in the original games and make them pay for mods using the Microsoft pay-for-download model...who cares if those clowns don't get community-based mods? EPIC is going to give us the PC version we want, with no filters or limitations, the way they always have.

  • The PS3 version is second grade anyway... (Score:5, Funny)

    by rbarreira (836272) on Thursday September 27 2007, @03:11PM (#20772485) Homepage
    The PS3 version will be worse than the PC version anyway, and won't include all the maps:

    http://www.jolt.co.uk/index.php?articleid=9625 [jolt.co.uk]

    Epic's Mark Rein has now said maps have had to be cut from the PlayStation 3 version because the next-gen system can't handle them.

    Speaking to IGN, Rein commented that the maps not in the PS3 release didn't sit well on the console "because the system didn't have the resources to produce a smooth gameplay experience."


    The PS3 omgpowerhouse looks less and less powerful...

  • Cheats (Score:3, Insightful)

    by c0d3h4x0r (604141) on Thursday September 27 2007, @03:12PM (#20772501) Homepage Journal
    This is a good thing for the console gamers because it means they won't have to be victims of the various cheats and hacks that the PC gamers inevitably find and exploit.

  • Thank god! (Score:5, Funny)

    by phorge (93821) on Thursday September 27 2007, @03:23PM (#20772661)
    At first I read this as 'UT3 Won't Feature Cosplay'.

    If only we could have been so lucky.

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