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Game Developer Now Offering Employees Overtime

Posted by Zonk on Wed Oct 03, 2007 01:32 PM
from the ea-spouse-cries-with-relief dept.
Via Joystiq comes a story from the European game development website Develop, saying that the UK developer Free Radical will be offering employees overtime for crunch mode sessions. "Steve Ellis of Free Radical says the days of 'bonuses that pay off your mortgage are long gone' and that they've 'decided to start paying people for the work that they do -- even when that work is outside their normal hours.' Ellis says that the industry as a whole will eventually go this way, but they prefer to do it sooner rather than later. Although there are so many companies who are guilty of not paying their employees for working extra hours, EA gets picked on more often than not because of the infamous EA Spouse saga."
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[+] EA Games: The Human Story 1143 comments
An anonymous reader writes "An Electronic Arts employee spouse speaks out against company crunch time practices. From the post: "EA's bright and shiny new corporate trademark is "Challenge Everything." Where this applies is not exactly clear. Churning out one licensed football game after another doesn't sound like challenging much of anything to me; it sounds like a money farm. To any EA executive that happens to read this, I have a good challenge for you: how about safe and sane labor practices for the people on whose backs you walk for your millions?"
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  • by SnoopJeDi (859765) <snoopjedi@@@gmail...com> on Wednesday October 03 2007, @01:39PM (#20840095)
    This model might work for the "kids" of the gaming industry that recycle developers like toilet paper, and treat them the same.

    I suspect that the big names, companies like iD, Raven, and SplashDamage will continue on a by-project basis, simply because their teams are so radically different.

    Interesting idea, though, and it definitely helps bring 'game developer' closer into the fold with 'real' jobs, giving it more weight with skeptics who don't understand the industry.
  • by Jesterboy (106813) on Wednesday October 03 2007, @01:50PM (#20840263)
    I don't know, but I think Developmag.com could remove a few more lines of content, and shove a few more ads on the page.

    11 sentences to 14 ads is just too small of a cost/income ratio (yes, I counted).

    </sarcasm>
  • How pathetic (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday October 03 2007, @01:51PM (#20840281)
    how pathetic must you be to work overtime without being paid for it. I'm moving into the 20th year of my career, mostly software development, some IT work. NEVER worked overtime without being paid handsomely for it. Remember you anti social youngin's, you have to STAND UP FOR YOURSELF OR THEY RUN YOU OVER.

    Idiots
    • I agree. Being in the industry, it amazes me that the youngin's just roll over and take it when asked to work ridiculous hours. "Oh, you want me to work 70+ hours a week for months? OK!! Thanks, I'm so grateful to be in the industry I'll do whatever you tell me Mr. Game Businessman!!!"

      I'm not sure how well this pay-for-overtime concept will do though. There are a lot of ambitious people waiting to break into the industry, and the suits at the top know this and take advantage of it. Simple supply and de
      • Re:How pathetic (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Applekid (993327) on Wednesday October 03 2007, @02:56PM (#20841465)
        A youngin' who lacks the breadth and depth of your experience will need to compromise lest they find themselves out of a job.

        Gotta prove you're worth it in experience and what you bring to the table before you start making demands. Thankfully, employ at Free Radical is a pretty good heavyweight on the resume and those working there are very likely to be able to demand overtime pay at their next gig.
        • A youngin' who lacks the breadth and depth of your experience will need to compromise lest they find themselves out of a job.
          They already compromised by accepting lower compensation (Money, paid time off, etc.).
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Why does it blow your mind that the young'uns will work these absurd hours? Here's how it goes:

        Young'un: Hello! I'm entering the working world under a staggering mountain of college debt.
        Old'un: Will you work 70+ hours a week for months?
        Young'un: Gee, that sounds kind of exploitative.
        Old'un: This guy will. Don't worry though, I hear Starbucks is hiring.
        Young'un: No no, I'll take it.
        Old'un: Perfect! By the way we've cut bonuses.
        Young'un: Oh.
        Old'un: I mean, I still get them. But you don't. Sou

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          No, they're sin is wanting to work on games not matter what reality says and being utter idiots about it. In any other industry they'd have been out of candidates a long time ago but the young ones are utter and total idiots. They "want to work in games" and will put up with anything to do so, no matter how little they actually contribute to the game in every sense of the meaning.

          Plenty of other jobs, including programming/IT ones, that don't have this problem AND pay better. Of course when you have so many
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      I think you have to be a salaried employee. If you get a benefits package and make half a million a year, it doesn't seem like such a bad deal to work an additional 10 to 20 hours a couple weeks out of the year. However, I know game developers don't make that. And they work insane hours. But who says game developers aren't insane?

      But this is good news, definitely. FWIW, I get paid hourly, and I bill like crazy if someone needs something done and I need to reschedule a lot of work or work overnight beca
    • Re:How pathetic (Score:4, Insightful)

      by servognome (738846) on Wednesday October 03 2007, @03:40PM (#20842133)

      how pathetic must you be to work overtime without being paid for it.
      Maybe they choose to for the "love" of the job. Game programmers can get cushy jobs in other software segments, but there's that drive to make games. How many kids grow up thinking, "I want to learn programming so I can write a database program to manage toilet paper inventories."
      The number of people who want to break into the industry leads to workers making compromises. Just like acting, where you have to work a minimum wage job 95% of the time so you have the flexibility to stand in line for 5 hours to get the chance at landing a one time role that pays $50. Or professional sports where by age 6 you spend hour after hour practicing, most likely will end up in a $20k/year practice and will suffer life long physical pain, all for the chance of having a big league career that lasts less than 3 years.
    • And the employers fire you since they hire cheaper people (e.g., outsource) who will do more hours without OT.
  • by Black Art (3335) on Wednesday October 03 2007, @01:59PM (#20840457)
    Current employment law allows employers in the US to exempt pretty much any and all employees who work with computers from overtime. If you were not exempt before 2004, the revisions made by Congress pretty much assured you are now.

    We don't buy slaves any more, we rent them.

    • Which law is this, specifically?
    • I don't know. According to this article [msn.com] it looks like the winds are shifting and many companies stand to take a beating from their historic practices.

      Of course it is hard to tell anything from a single article since it could very well be the reporter projecting his fervent wishes onto the data.

    • U.S. labor laws that govern overtime pay don't say anything about computers, but I do understand where you're coming from. The original overtime laws that were put into place differentiated between factory workers (unskilled labor) and management (skilled labor), basically, mandating overtime for the workers and "exempting" management from receiving overtime pay by law. The problem now, of course, is that far fewer people work in factories since we've shifted to a service economy, and many of us who aren'
      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        You're incorrect.

        An exemption was inserted in the last few years that covers "computer systems analysts, computer programmers, software engineers, and other similarly skilled workers in the computer field who meet certain tests regarding their job duties and who are paid at least $455 per week on a salary basis or paid on an hourly basis, at a rate not less than $27.63 an hour."

        http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/fairpay/fs17e_computer.htm [dol.gov]
    • Thankfully we have this thing called "freedom" that allows companies to (for the most part)decide how to compensate their employees. So maybe if you're desirable enough, you can find an employer that compensates you in a way that makes you happy, regardless of what companies are required to do by law. In fact, why is it even remotely okay that the government can make laws that dictate how a private organization trades money for labor? What if there was a law that set a maximum salary for workers in your
  • In response, Electronic Arts stated that it has agreed to reduce the company's cats-o'-nine-tails [wikipedia.org] down to only seven tails.
  • by cliffski (65094) on Wednesday October 03 2007, @06:05PM (#20844135) Homepage
    I used to work in AAA game dev, now work for myself. I'm not sure paying overtime is the solution. If I'm paid by the hour and I have a bad ass bug, yet I have a brainwave and fix it in 20 mins, I'm going to avoid checking it in, chat on msn, play peggle for 3 hours and pocket the 3 hours extra wages. Who is going to know? I'd be very surprised if this doesn't lead to longer dev times, rather than shorter, its all about incentives.
    If there is more cash available, the solution is good, regular bonuses, and higher salaries. The problem is the management obsession wit bums on seats and hours clocked in. Coders and designers especially are knowledge workers. It's to do with clear thinking, experience, efficiency and inspiration. you can't chain someone to a desk and expect them to produce a linear amount of results per hour. Coding and designing is not bricklaying. Management panic that they can't tell if a game coder is working hard or not, or whether he good at his job or not, so they settle for the one metric they understand -> hours worked.
    It's a deeply flawed method, and paying them for the extra hours just penalizes those who are more efficient and get stuff done faster. Pay people by results.
    • which putts it totally at odds with why overtime was first introduced. During the great depression, overtime was introduced to pressure employers to hire extra staff rather then simply working the ones they had into the ground.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        butterflysrage wrote:

        [Overtime's quality of being cheaper than hiring more employees] puts it totally at odds with why overtime was first introduced. During the great depression, overtime was introduced to pressure employers to hire extra staff rather then simply working the ones they had into the ground.

        Overtime still works that way, just not in the way that you expect. It is cheaper still to hire more part-time employees and refuse them both benefits AND overtime. Overtime contributes significantly to this equation; as it is possible for a part time employee to be paid overtime on a short term basis without running afoul of federal laws that would change their status to full time. The resulting expenses however cause any employer of part time employees to be downright paranoid of

      • t may appear that way, but IIRC several surveys have shown far and away the opposite -- the quality of work you get after a certain threshold (somewhere in the 40-50 hour range) goes down so rapidly that you're substantially better off throwing more people at the problem than more time.

        Thanks for posting that. I agree with it. I think (hope) I write well designed, well documented, well tested, usable code. But honestly, my employer probably gets 5 hours of solid work a day from me and then my concentr
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        Absolutely. I know from personal experience I've spent hours on a problem working late and fixed it in 5 minutes the next day. After an 8 hour day you;re not going to get a lot from an employee.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      If it gets games out by their release dates great! But I'm not shelling out 90 bucks a game!

      It'll likely lead to saner game release schedules. Instead of saying "Oct 9th 2007, no matter hell or high water", it'll be "forth quarter 2007, probably".
      • Re:Dupe (kinda) (Score:5, Insightful)

        by hedwards (940851) on Wednesday October 03 2007, @03:07PM (#20841647)

        It'll likely lead to saner game release schedules. Instead of saying "Oct 9th 2007, no matter hell or high water", it'll be "forth quarter 2007, probably".
        That's usually what happens. Perhaps it is just an indication that games shouldn't be hyped until they are largely together. And that the date for the release shouldn't be set until a month or two before it is released.

        This is one of the problems with allowing businesses the level of freedom that they have over compensation. Sure minimum wages and similar mandates tend to be problematic when not thought through, but so is the idea that an employer should be allowed to require constant overtime as well. Burn out is a serious matter, and as is killing morale. There just aren't many industries that have workers that thrive by working constant overtime because the business model was messed up.