Halo In Church Points Out ESRB Flaws

The recent controversy over church groups making use of Halo 3 to attract young men to their services continues to be a subject of debate outside of the fan press. GamePolitics notes that the debate is indicative of flaws in the ESRB's system, and in mainstream culture's understanding of those ratings. "When you look at it like that, it's hard to blame those who criticize bringing Halo into sacred space. For the most part the critics are not gamers and have no concept of the vast difference between Halo and GTA. All they know is that the games share a common M rating, a designation assigned by the game industry itself, theoretically for the protection of impressionable youth. For the uninitiated it's only logical to assume the content must be of a similar character as well. As someone who has played both, I'd argue that there is a world of difference between Halo and GTA."

Rating systems

[Gharbad (647620)]

When you have to pidgeon hole all media into about 5 slots, you're going to have differences between boundary conditions. Like how 2 R rated movies aren't necessarily the same in terms of content.

Re:Rating systems

[nschubach (922175)]

New ratings:

S-ex (S1 no naughties/S2 rear naughties/S3 front naughties/S4 You betcha, it's porn)
D-rugs (D1 OTC(tobacco?)/D2 Prescrip/D3 "intro drugs" MJ/D4 Anyone order a meth-lab? Cocaine?)
G-un Violence (G1 War, History, no blood/G2 Blood, no impact shots/G3 body parts/G4 chunks)
C-omedy (C1 Mickey Mouse/C2 someone actually funny/C3 mild language/C4 Bob Saget) ...etc.

I know. It looks a bit complicated. But think of the store shelves. Start high rated at the top and work down to the kid stuff.

Of course the ratings panel would be "S2-D4-G2-C2-..." but they could get stylish with it.

Read the bible lately?

[olddotter (638430)]

A game based on parts of the Bible could get an M rating as well. The bible is full of violence and sex. People just seem to gloss over that these days. Much like the people who say drinking is a sin, and over look that water to wine section.

Re:Read the bible lately?

[markbt73 (1032962)]

A game based on parts of the Bible could get an M rating as well.

Nah, it only gets a T rating [amazon.com].

Re:

[pluther (647209)]

A game based on parts of the Bible could get an M rating as well.

Nah, it only gets a T rating.

If the game is anything like the books, it's based on modern American Christian teachings, which are mostly derived from post-civil war writings of various evangelists, and have little to nothing to do with the Bible, other than referencing some of the names.

Re:Read the bible lately?

[HTH NE1 (675604)]

Compare to Viva Piñata which is rated E where part of the game is beating crying piñatas to death, their final release from life at the final death blow also releasing their candy and confetti insides to the delighted cheering of children.

Re:Violence over rated

[IthnkImParanoid (410494)]

Although the game may be non-violent, it is equally dangerous due to its irresponsible depiction of an unhealthy diet. Won't somebody think of the obese children?! I'd change your game to have the player (a loquacious charming-but-tomboyish little girl) deliver cold, refreshing, Free Trade mountain spring water.

Also, the use of the truck promotes both inactivity and CO2 emissions, so the character should deliver the water from a bike, wearing a helmet and wrist, elbow, and knee guards of course. If you run a stop sign or ride on the sidewalk, it's an immediate game over, and you have to ride slow enough that your riding partner, a slightly retarded child with a heart of gold (of indeterminant ethnic minority status) can keep up with you so the buddy system stays intact.

You only have one cup that everyone drinks out of so as to minimize waste; a mini-game sterilizes the cup with antibiotics between uses. Points are scored for each person served, but taken away for not keeping your heart rate up, not wearing a flag lapel pin, supporting the iraq war, or passing a breast cancer donation box without throwing in some change.

Re:Read the bible lately?

[SkelVA (1055970)]

The bible says "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;" Ephesians 5:18

Back in the day, before water purification techniques or even the understanding of what got a person sick and what didn't, wine was safer to drink than water. The wine they drink was also much less alcoholic than the wine we drink today. When Jesus turned water to wine as stated in the bible, think of it more like turning warm tap water to a cold soft drink or something along those lines.

And on the topic, there's a reason that movies give a basic reason for the rating. When I see an R rating for "Violence and adult language" it's different than if I see an R rating for "Nudity and extreme sexual content." The whole concept of a unified 5-slot rating system to classify offensiveness is completely intractable. The specific reasoning is much more useful to me, but nothing will ever trump parental involvement. Play Halo 3 for an hour or play GTA for an hour and you'll get a pretty decent, not complete, opinion of what the games' content is.

Re:Read the bible lately?

[Mprx (82435)]

Except Jesus supposedly made the wine after the guests were already drunk, therefore implicitly condoning drunkenness.

"and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.""
John 2:9-10, NIV

Still out of place...

[azuredrake (1069906)]

While I would agree that Halo and GTA are worlds apart, and hope that this controversy catalyzes much-needed revamping of the ESRB's functionality, I still find it out of place that churches are using Halo to bring young men to services. "Thou shalt not kill" does not mesh well with "Thou shalt kill aliens in copious numbers". Also, it just strikes me of bribery - they should be there because they're interested in the religion, not because they wanna get a mad sic deathmatch in after church lets out. But maybe that's just me.

Re:

[ObiWanStevobi (1030352)]

It should be pretty commonly known these days that "Thou shalt not kill" does not apply to war according to religious leadership. And since Master Chief is at war with the aliens, it's all good.

Personally, I think it's great. Now we all get to teabag us some choir boys, not just the Priests.

"Murder" not "Kill"

[AHumbleOpinion (546848)]

"Thou shalt not kill" does not mesh well with "Thou shalt kill aliens in copious numbers".

Sometimes when looking at a translation dictionary you get the impression that one word translates precisely into another word. That is not true, the two words may have vastly different connotation. Also, connotations may change over time. I am no biblical scholar, but I believe that it has been well established that a more accurate translation of the ancient Hebrew text refers to "murder". not "kill".

Also, the concept of just or defensive wars is well established in most Christian churches. The Old Testament clearly approves of warfare.

Re:

[Applekid (993327)]

I interpret that as it's only ok to kill aliens if you're going to eat them.

Re:Still out of place...

[king-manic (409855)]

WTF? Is that 1984 double speak? I'm pretty sure its "Kill", since I have never ever ever come across Thou shall not Murder and to be honest I don't really see the point you are making?

You're trying to pretend there is a difference between killing and killing a killer, or that it's somehow OK to kill during war. I don't really have any strong believes in anything but I have very strong morals on this topic.

Killing is Killing and it's bad to kill people!

The passage in the bible is mis translated in some bibles. The exact passage translates more closely to "Thou shalt no murder". In certain notable translations it's translated "thou shalt no kill." This isn't double speak. most languages do not line up 1:1. The original text used a word that is more in line with the word "murder" then "kill" but for one reason or another certain translations used "kill".

Your morals are irrelevant to the translation of the word. You may believe killing a cow is wrong but it doesn't effect the translation of exodus.

If you investigate the history of Judaism and the early Christian churches you'll find neither religion does not agree on your view of "killing". Both outline circumstances where killing is morally correct. Some off shoots (modern and ancient) of Christianity might be more to your liking but it does not change the original word used int he 10 commandments.

Re:Still out of place...

[amRadioHed (463061)]

Both outline circumstances where killing is morally correct

Many of which are morally reprehensible to any modern civilization.

Translating the commandment as "murder" turns it into a really impotent commandment. As long as the people already had a concept of "wrong" killing and "right" killing, then telling them "wrong" killing is wrong is pretty useless. The history of western civilization should prove that some stronger language was warranted.

Yeah Halo and GTA are different!

[powerlord (28156)]

In GTA you run around breaking the law, consorting with whores and fellons, and killing people in bloody episodes.

In Halo, you just run around listening to profanity on your headset and trying to get headshots. ... MUCH better ... right?

Re:

[the_skywise (189793)]

In Halo, you just run around listening to profanity on your headset and trying to get headshots. ... MUCH better ... right?

Actually that's not that all much different from having church sponsored paintball outings...

Re:

[Blakey Rat (99501)]

Seriously, though. There's a big difference between a game where you fight and kill other human beings to engage in criminal activities, and a game where you only fight aliens to save humanity. I'm pretty sure Halo 2 and Halo 3 are actually designed so that at no point are you fighting other humans-- even when playing as the Arbiter. Frankly, I don't necessarily agree that Halo deserves the same rating as games like the GTA series, or Rainbow Six Vegas, or other much more graphic games.

Suggested this myself

[Thyamine (531612)]

I submitted this to our own pastor and some of the others involved with youth and fellowship in our church. And I suppose being a gamer myself it just makes sense to me. The fellowship committee in our church is there to create activities that are not necessarily 'church' related, but help bring us together as a community, to get to know each other, and just to have fun. The youth groups do the same things. I don't see why it seems like such an alien concept that one or the other should use video games for that purpose. I mean, come on I'm a geek and 31 (and still thinking he's in college at times). Do I look like bingo or knitting are activities that I'm going to sign up for?

And I agree with the summary that it only seems strange to those who don't know about gaming, and while I can understand their initial confusion, I'd hope that after an explanation and (at most) a demonstration, that they'd see that. For the most part, I've run into very little concern about these type of things from anyone (and yes I'm going to stereotype) who was not under 65 or so in our church. But I think it's our part as gamers/geeks/fill-in-your-term-here to explain away the FUD that some people seem to spread.

Not every place in all churches are sacred space.

[LWATCDR (28044)]

"When you look at it like that, it's hard to blame those who criticize bringing Halo into sacred space." Well yes I would have a problem with playing video games in sacred places. I don't think it would be right to play them in chapel of a church.
I will be honest I have never played Halo. I have played Quake and Doom, and the later generations of those games. I am more into the Age of Empire type game and yes all of the above should not be played in the chapel.
For the rest of the Church well. I know that this is a radical idea but isn't that really up to the church and or the congregation of the church? My church tends to be more into the basketball and volley ball type of church activities and I don't think that I would be thrilled with video games in church but then that is my church and my opinion. Other churches have different ideas.
Seems sort of strange to even be discussing it since frankly it is none of our business.

How is this different from movies?

[ZombieRoboNinja (905329)]

"Kill Bill" and "The Passion of the Christ" were both rated R, weren't they?

There's a wide range of stuff that's considered "mature." Some of it is mindlessly gory, some of it seriously handles mature topics.

That's not to say I buy the premise that Halo 3 is a great fit for church life. Maybe it's "Die Hard" instead of "Grindhouse," but that doesn't make it a good fit.

Why is Halo rated M in the first place?

[Asmor (775910)]

That's always struck me a bit odd... Halo's a fairly clean game. There's very minimal swearing (I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure there's a at least one "shit" uttered at dispariaging moments...), and the violence is really on the cartoony side... It's not realistic at all, there's very little blood, absolutely no gore, and when people die they just fall over, as opposed to being ripped apart or dismembered.

Heck, most of the things you're killing are aliens or, online, Spartans who are encased in full-body armor with no skin visible.

Personally, I would have rated Halo 3 as a T, not an M. And personally I think it's even on the tamer side of T.

ESRB should be used by parents.

[JayDot (920899)]

The ESRB rating system should be used by parents to review the content of games for what they believe to be acceptable for their children. And yes, different games may get the same rating for completely different reasons. IIRC, SWAT 3 got an M rating as well. However, anyone could look at the 2 or 3 lines of text underneath the rating to find out exactly why the game was rated what it was. Using the example of Halo 3 in a church outreach or fellowship activity to say that the ESRB rating is flawed is exactly wrong.

The ESRB rating tells you what is there. Some parents and church leaders will decide to not allow M rated games. Others will look at the descriptors and prohibit certain games based on that. But this shows that the system, properly understood as a tool that informs parents and responsible adults, is not flawed. What is flawed is the idea that some regulatory body, whether mandated by government or not, is responsible for what children and teenagers see and experience in video games today. That responsibility should always rest on the parents.

Re:

[powerlord (28156)]

Can they also explain how the races in the Covenant were 'Intelligently Designed"? I'd like to know.

Well ... I'd imagine they'd start by pointing to Bungie, and how they've made a series of successful games, so they must be pretty intelligent, and, since the races in the Covenant were designed by Bungie, they are obviously the part of a product made by Intelligent Design. ;)

Re:Am I the only one?

[Bill, Shooter of Bul (629286)]

No dumb ass we don't worship a corpse on display. We eat it. But its cool, he told us to.