World of Warcraft Gold Limit Reached, It's 2^31

Mitch writes "Blizzard apparently used signed integers for their World of Warcraft gold values as some people have recently hit the limit of 2^31. "Apparently that amount is 214,748 gold, 36 silver, 48 copper. After you reach that lofty sum, you'll no longer be able to receive money from any source in the game. While some responses to the original posts claim that this exact limit had previously been theorized to exist, there have been no reports of anyone in the game actually achieving this amount via legal means." I guess Blizzard didn't expect anyone to ever get close to that much gold in game."

Duh

[hcdejong]

2^31 should be enough for anyone...

Re:Duh

[ZeroFactorial]

The range for a signed integer is 2,147,483,648 to +2,147,483,64_7_ (not 8).

The negative range always extends one higher, since zero uses the first "positive" value.

I call fabrication. And I call O.o for slashdotters not realizing this sooner.

Re:Duh

[Detritus]

You are assuming binary two's complement arithmetic. That isn't always the case. Also, the programming language, or it's implementation, may opt for a symmetric range of values.

Re:

[BinaryOpty]

No modern programming language or CPU uses anything but 2's complement integers, so I don't get the idea behind your post.

Re:

[Detritus]

Better not tell IBM.

How about COBOL, PL/I, BASIC, REXX, Common LISP, Visual Basic, Java, Ada 95, Perl, and C#?

Prime.

[Tatarize]

True, but 2^31-1 is so much cooler. It's prime after all.

Re:

[Jim Hall]

Using a signed int for the score isn't a new thing - I know that gamers have experimented with this limit on other games. On one of their podcasts, Insomniac Games mentioned a gamer who had succeeded in rolling the number of bolts in 'Ratchet & Clank' to be negative, and then none of the vendors would sell him anything.

Here's a video of someone doing just that [youtube.com] in 'Going Commando'.

Get off my lawn

[labnet]

In my day a signed int only went to 2^15, and 2^31 was a signed long.... and you better had a good excuse for using one of those.

Re:

[gad_zuki!]

>2^31 should be enough for anyone...

Ironically, the player has 0 gold in retirement, 0 gold in savings, and 0 income since he's been fired from calling in sick from the 'wow virus' a few too many times. Here's hoping he can sell that gold for a tidy sum.

Hmm, whats the exchange rate for tht? After a little googling for bulk rates and a little messy math I'd say this guy is sitting on anything between 12 to 18,000 dollars. Not bad if can actually turn into dollars with all this competition for WoW gold sa

Re:

[LoverOfJoy]

It'd be funny if it reset to zero after reached that amount.

Re:Duh

[mysidia]

Signed integers are used all the time for strictly positive values. For most purposes it is more convenient to just utilize the standard signed integer, and perform range checking to ensure it's positive.

(You need to range check unsigned integers too, it's not as if switching to an unsigned integer relieves you of any problems, other than that it increases the 2^31-1 limit to a 2^32-1 limit.)

The player should be thankful that the only consequence is they can't receive more gold from other players, rather than finding they have a _VERY_ negative amount of gold (less than zero).

In many C based programs, your gold would overflow and drop to (-2^31+1), -2147483647, since the C programming language doesn't offer the programmer any exception handling mechanism for overflow detection (overflows are silently allowed to happen), and game developers don't necessarily anticipate such extremes.

Re:Duh

[shutdown -p now]

The reason why int is often used instead of unsigned int in C/C++ is also because of its weird mixed arithmetic rules which require that result of any unary and binary operator is unsigned if at least one of the operands is unsigned, which makes very little sense for common (small) int values - e.g. on a typical 32-bit platform, (4u / -2) == (4u / (unsigned)-2) == (4u / 0xFFFFFFFEu) == 0. These sort of mistakes can be hard to spot and catch, so it's often safer to just do everything in signed. See here [google.com] for more examples.

Re:

[smittyoneeach]

Bah. Just go floating point. Only WoWses are afraid of exponents. Think how non-Progressive we would be in reality if our national debt were saddled by such limitations, instead of being allowed to blossom and spread, kudzu-like, until nothing less than an arbitrary-precision library can manage the vast expanse of non-wealth.

News for nerds, stuff that matters

[Anonymous Coward]

Somehow I think only 'News for nerds' apply for this one.

Re:

[QuantumLeaper]

Very true, and here is a link to the most likely gold farmer, I mean character, based on names in the screen shot.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Illidan&n=Zxtreme [wowarmory.com]

Ron Paul!

[Mateo_LeFou]

As the good doctor never gets tired of pointing out, the problem with World of Warcraft currency is its artificial manipulation by the Federal Orlock reserve. This is why I support RP in his longshot bid for WoW sysadmin.

So, how does one accumulate that much gold?

[Eggplant62]

On three level 70s and one level 61, I still have trouble breaking 3,000 gold between them. How does one get that much gold together in the first place?

Re:So, how does one accumulate that much gold?

[ArcticCelt]

I know, I consider myself has good at playing the auction house because I can make 100-300G per day just buying and selling stuff but to reach that amount I would need to play every day for three years at an average of 200G per day!!!! o_O That guy is pretty much hard core.

Re:

[LordSnooty]

You've not heard of the Chinese WoW player-farms then? An account being used every day for three years (though not necessarily the same person) is not implausible.

Re:So, how does one accumulate that much gold?

[Rogerborg]

Why would a commercial farmer would be hanging on to gold rather than selling it for $$$? If it's not worth selling at its current price, why keep farming at all, as it's unlikely to rise in future.

Re:So, how does one accumulate that much gold?

[MBGMorden]

Of course, it's work, and I don't do it too much I prefer my WIFE, and my RL toys. They blow away a naked night elf and a steam tonk controller any day!

We get it. You're married. You get laid occasionally.

Every geek who gets some for some reason always feels the need to broadcast it every chance they get.

News story: Russian scientist figures way to make food from air and feed starving children everywhere.

Response: Yeah I like to eat food with my WIFE. And sometimes, when going to the store with my WIFE, we buy food. And then occasionally we go home and I eat this food with my WIFE. And then she touch my pee-pee.

Re:So, how does one accumulate that much gold?

[Onetus]

I pity your bitter lonely life.

At least that's what my wife tells me to do.

Re:So, how does one accumulate that much gold?

[calibanDNS]

Do you have any gathering professions? I can make 100+ just buy selling a few stacks of adamantite ore (plus the eternium and gems) that I get from mining in a short amount of time. When my first (and only) toon hit 70, he already had about 3000g mostly from the quests going from 60 to 70. On top of that, factor in daily quests which give you ~12g per quest, which you can do up to 10 of per day; 12g * 10 = another 120g per day per character.

Re:

[hitmanWilly1337]

How do you defeat he who has no life? And I can see it happening with the new guild banks.

Re:So, how does one accumulate that much gold?

[-noefordeg-]

At level 8, my char, Lardbutt, had around 3500 gold -and- almost all the Epics/Rares you could trade. This would probably amount to 10.000+ in total gold value.
I played him until I got to Ironforge, after that he NEVER left the auction house. Just bought up things I thought were cheap and put them back in with a more expensive price. Most people don't check the market price for an item and when they found a rare/epic item they didn't need, would just sell it to the highest bidder at their first attempt to sell it. The ignorance of a weapons true worth was also something to take advantage of. Like the value of Julie's Dagger and Hanzo Sword, which on paper didn't really have über stats, but were perfect weapons for some types of warrior and rogue classes. Buying them for 10-20gold was quite possible, earning a profit of 50+ gold whenever you sold them to someone who "knew" their real price.

After a while I could by everything of some specific item and control the price. I often did this with the better types of bags :)

It took me about 3 months of regular playing to get there. This was the three first months after the release. I don't think you can pull it off that easily now, because most items are no Bind of Pickup, instead of Bind on Equip as they were earlier and the economy for items more or less crashed after 5-6 months.

I stopped playing after about 3-4 months.
  Then I had probably a 100 complains posted against me, because people was 100% sure that I cheated and every time I logged on I got 15+ tells from people talking trash about how I cheated them/the system/the auction house/etc. Almost wish I kept on playing a little longer. =P

Re:

[ildon]

You still can do this, and people still do do it. In fact, due to the twinking market and general inflation, the value of low level boe items has skyrocketed, in addition to the introduction of a lot of high level crafting components and recipes that are easily resold for profit.

Could be worse

[Metasquares]

It could have rolled over :)

Re:

[canuck57]

Or triggered wealth sur-tax.

Re: Turning over Scores..

[djdavetrouble]

I remember the guy that rolled over Defender : Stargate......
That used to be the supreme badge of honor, turning a
coin-op over.
Steve was a total legend at the local 7-11 for being able
to turn games over. I think it had something to do with
his talent for "stringing" machines (tape fishing line to a quarter
and collect credits while someone distracted the clerk)...

Memories.....

What the point of having gold...

[Anonymous Coward]

if there's nothing to spend it on! That's the reason why the cap was hit, there's no large mansions, yachts, or expensive prostitutes.

Seriously though, since all the beset equipment is earned, not bought (and usually bind on pickup/equip), there's little point in money in WoW in the late game.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

They should let people transfer it over to Second Life or something.

Fiat money causes inflation in WoW?

[dada21]

Since the money is fiat, i.e. not backed by a fixed standard in the game, have people seen monetary inflation causing price increases in the game, or has the population of players offset any growth in money?

I don't play WoW (played it a few times and have watched some addicts^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hfriends play it), so I'm not familiar with how pricing works.

I would assume, though, that if money growth exceeds population/player growth, prices would tend to rise. Is this the case?

Are there any online games that have a relatively fixed amount of money in the game?

Re:Fiat money causes inflation in WoW?

[unbug]

Are there any online games that have a relatively fixed amount of money in the game?

The stock market?

Re:Fiat money causes inflation in WoW?

[Tango42]

The stock market is far from a zero-sum game... otherwise the indexes wouldn't change.

Re:

[billcopc]

That's precisely why it's flawed.

There's only so much wealth in the world. Wealth is not "created", it merely exchanges hands. Sure, the dollar amount increases, that's called inflation. We don't have more resources just because some redneck is selling more weapons, or some trendy douche is making thinner laptops. They have more and we have less - the net result is zero. Not zero dollars, zero global gain.

Re:Fiat money causes inflation in WoW?

[TheRaven64]

There's only so much wealth in the world. Wealth is not "created", it merely exchanges hands

Okay, I'll bite. If wealth is not created what happens when:

• I discover a previously-unknown deposit of gold/oil/uranium and start exploiting it?
• I invent a more efficient solar panel that allows me to generate cheap energy from my previously-worthless land?
• I build a tractor that allows a farmer to increase the yield from his fields without hiring more employees?
• I learn something new and gain new skills?
• I create a piece of software?

I don't know how you define wealth, but it doesn't seem to be according to the same definition anyone else uses.

Re:

[gronofer]

In those cases, someone gives you currency, and they become poorer, wealth is then exchanged into your hands. Poverty is a direct result of wealth.

If they give you currency and get nothing in return they would become poorer. But since you are selling them something, which they value more highly than the currency, they become richer.

Re:

[Tango42]

I buy a piece of wood for £1, carve a statue out of it and sell it for £10. Before I carved it, I owned a piece of wood worth £1 and the purchaser owned money worth £10, that's a total of £11. After selling it, I own money worth £10 and the purchaser owns a statue worth £10, that's a total of £20. That extra £9 is new wealth. It didn't previously exist.

Re:

[lpontiac]

Since the money is fiat, i.e. not backed by a fixed standard in the game, have people seen monetary inflation causing price increases in the game, or has the population of players offset any growth in money?

Surely, within the context of the game, gold is about as fixed to the gold standard as can be?

Re:Fiat money causes inflation in WoW?

[Tango42]

Gold only works as a store of value in the real world because the amount of gold being mined is such a tiny proportion of the total gold in circulation - there is pretty much a fixed amount of gold in existence. That's not the case in a game like WoW. A gold standard in WoW is meaningless, you would need a standard based on something fixed (is there any such thing? Land maybe? I'm not sure how Wow handles land, or how often new areas are opened).

Re:

[xouumalperxe]

Also, there are a fair few mechanisms that remove gold from the economy: repairs, reagents, auction house fees...

Re:Fiat money causes inflation in WoW?

[Merkuri22]

There's not a real economy in WoW, per say. You get most of your money from quests and kills, which is pretty well-regulated (in the sense that lower level mobs and quests give lower amounts of money, and there's a limit to what you can kill and loot), and you spend most of it in NPC shops. The only semblance of an economy is the auction house and trade channels.

The fact that most of your money disappears into NPC shops with set prices keeps inflation from happening.

Re:

[Tango42]

The money might disappear, but the wealth doesn't, since a new item is created from nowhere. Money supply isn't the only thing that affects inflation - simple wealth creation also has an affect.

Re:

[andi75]

The wealth disappears when you replace the bought item with a better one (and throw away the old one or sell it for a tiny amount back to the NPC).

Re:Fiat money causes inflation in WoW?

[Tango42]

I also don't play WoW, so I'm not sure how (or even if) they combat inflation, but I know other games get round it by removing wealth from the game in the form of wear and tear on equipment. Anything consumable would also allow wealth to be removed from the game, although if it's easily created (food growing on trees, say) it won't make much difference.

There are all kinds of other ways you could remove wealth - NPC's charging tolls to cross bridges, say. Anything where something of value disappears from the came will compensate for the increase in money supply caused and equipment caused by new players and monsters.

Re:

[Talla]

Since the money is fiat, i.e. not backed by a fixed standard in the game, have people seen monetary inflation causing price increases in the game, or has the population of players offset any growth in money?

My experience from the horde side of the server Aerie Peak is deflation on grinding items (particularly from mining and herbalism), and inflation on very rare (epic) items. Too many people have learned the auction house trick of buying to keep prices up. That kept the prices artificially high, and too many people took up herbalism and mining. Suddenly everyone was flooding the market, and prices more than halved in a month. Relatively little gold is taken out of the market by Blizzard, though, so when an

Re:

[Dhalka226]

First, let me start by saying that there is only one place prices can rise in WoW and that's the auction house (or, I suppose, player-to-player sales). Vendor items are basically fixed price. You do get a discount based on how well the faction of people you're buying from like you, but it's always from a fixed base price.

I would assume, though, that if money growth exceeds population/player growth, prices would tend to rise. Is this the case?

The answer is... kind of. There are definite and noticeable

Re:

[andi75]

By far the most gold is spend by raiders I guess

- Consumables (flasks & elixirs & pots): 40-100g / night
- Repairs: 30-50g / night (when learning new bosses)
- Enchants: 25-50g / night. Most of your gear can be 'upgraded' by enchants, so every time you get a new item, you'll spend 100-300g on the enchant. The estimate assumes you get a new gear piece every 4-6 raids.

That's an average of 150g spent per night raiding (requires 1-2 hours of 'farming' to earn).

There's also crafted resistance gear, 200-100

Thats worth around 6500$

[ArcticCelt]

At market value of 1000G for 31$ he can sell that amount for 6657.188$.

http://sparter.com/web/shop.jsp#market=WWU01A&quantity=500 [sparter.com]

Re:Thats worth around 6500$

[teslar]

So I wonder... how long does it take to get 6500$'s equivalent in WoW gold? I.e. how many hours do you have to work for that money and how does that compare to a normal job? Are you earning like an executive or are you on minimum wage or less?

Re:Thats worth around 6500$

[Dr. Evil]

Selling WoW gold is against game policy. Blizzard can take it all away from you if they want to.

It'd make a risky day job.

Re:

[karl marx is my hero]

That's the current market rate for it. If he floods the market all at once with that much gold, he's likely to get much less than the current market rate.

Civilization I

[blind biker]

Reminds me of when I was using a hex editor to "help myseslf" to some extra gold in Civilization I - I remember I could only up my gold to 3000 pieces, that was the Civ Is upper limit. Very off-putting, when you have to leave the game and start the hex editor just to replenish your reserves!

How short-sighted of Sid ;o)

Re:Civilization I

[funfail]

Well, you could as well write a TSR [wikipedia.org] loader [wikipedia.org] that refreshed the same memory location 60 times a second. I don't think you could spend faster than that.

Damn co-ops/interns

[Bentov]

Programming error or intern. Maybe it's an internal flag that it's time to get the ball rolling on WOW II. But wait, with that much gold, and the current price of it, they could sell it, and actually move OUT of the mom's basement and get a place of their own. ...

This is good!

[unbug]

At least it means there won't be a "Who wants to be a millionaire" in WOW.

Re:

[Midnight Thunder]

At least it means there won't be a "Who wants to be a millionaire" in WOW.

Instead there will be "Who wants t be a 2^31aire". I am not sure which is worse.

Not really correct

[pipatron]

A signed 32-bit integer can not store 2^31, but 2^31-1, which would be 214,748 gold, 36 silver, 47 copper.

Re:

[Daimanta]

Exactly, I hope they know how 2-complement number work.

Re:

[Yetihehe]

This should be in first post. Biggest sign that many nerd-wannabes read slashdot.

SIgned ints for cash

[Ciggy]

This isn't the first time a signed integer has been used to store the amount of money a player has (and I suspect it won't be the last, either) - years ago when I played MicroProse's Railroad Tycoon, I found an interesting bug (feature) with the way cash was stored:

For the game, a negative cash made a small bit of sense (overdraft) and so a signed integer was used. If you just bought up >50% of the shares in your railroad company (to ensure that you couldn't be fired), and then ensured that you had lots of expenditure but no income every financial period, you would end each financial period with more negative cash until it eventually overflowed and became positive. Once positive, with lots of income, it refused to overflow back negative.

I found it interesting, that although a positive overflow was checked a negative one wasn't. The assumption must be that the programmer never really expected the limit condition to be met and so only put a cursory check in - checking for a positive overflow to prevent sudden negative cash (in both games) and the problems that could cause the program and game play, but in MicroProse's case, not bothering with the negative overflow as it was an extreme case not expected - the game play was possibly meant to prevent it and I found the 1 in a whatever chance to get it to happen (I was trying to see how negative a rating I could achieve without being "fired").

Re:

[Nimey]

I'm certain I've heard of one version of Oregon Trail with this type of bug.

2^31 ???

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not great with signed integers, but wouldn't it make sense for blizzard to use a 32 bit integer, thus

2 ^ 32 = 4,294,967,296 / 2 = 2,147,483,648 - 1 = 2,147,483,647

It seems like the story and summary are wrong

Re:

[Cillian]

An unsigned integer would indeed be 32 bits, i.e. gold limit of 2^32-1, but they are using a signed one - one of the bits is a sign bit. Therefore half of the range of values is "lost" to negative values. I think.

Hmm

[The MAZZTer]

Is it possible to have negative money? If not it would be a simple hack to double the limit by making the gold counter unsigned. Well... you' d have to change every variable that stores gold but it would be easier or at least as easy as changing it to a longlong or something.

An alternative is to purposely let it roll over. Blizzard would be doing those players a FAVOR. ;)

Re:

[Jack9]

A. This is not the "first time" the limit has been reached. The article is inaccurate.
B. The reason it's a signed int is so that GMs/Developers can alter Gold amounts and either, not have to worry about setting or INTENTIONALLY set a player's Gold to a negative. If you have negative gold, you cannot gain any (gold effectively disappears, barring log analyzation). Simple logic there.

A conscious design decision

[digitalderbs]

Presumably they didn't use a 64-bit integer to save on bandwidth costs.

Game Economics

[ajgeek]

Warning: Geekish Post Ahead

If you put a lot of emphasis in controlling inflation in your game then you can keep a game going with the ability to bring new players in cold and they have a better chance of staying. Economics of a game needs to have more of a priority than just killing mobs, crafting new items and completing the quest. Here's why.

I've been an avid gamer for a long time and have always found that economics within the game are never up to par with any standard, let alone a true economic standard. While I understand that there would be too much work in maintaining a true economy in many cases, the fact that the developers of each game don't bother to put in enough money sinks to keep the flow of money in game vs. out of game in check is astounding, especially in the case of WoW with n million players.

One exception to this rule is CCP Games "EVE Online". The game is fundamentally an economics simulator in a space setting. While this sounds about as fun as counting grains of sand on a beach on a windy day, don't knock the premise until you try it. The whole game revolves around the flow of money into and out of wallets via new ships, replacement equipment, massive costs for new skills and upkeep costs for space stations etc. CCP even has an economist on staff to give reports on how the game economics is doing.

Again, this sounds like no fun at all, but EVE has been running for over 4 years, is still increasing in population (albeit slowly) and I still did not have trouble getting started in the game and buying new equipment without it being ungodly hard to make the money to buy it. Oh and it's a fun space simulator too.

What kind of person...

[dominious]

Blizzard Exec #2: What kind of person would do this?
Blizzard Exec #1: Only one kind... Whoever this person is, he has played world of warcraft nearly ever hour, of every day, for the past year and a half. Gentlemen we are dealing with someone here who has absolutely no life.

I don't get it

[bvimo]

What is the War of Worldcraft thing? I've seen it mentioned here a few times, but nobody actually explains what it does.

Is it a book?

At least it bounds, rather than overflowing

[Animats]

At least they handled overflow right. I'm impressed. If it wrapped around to zero, or went negative, some small number of users would be screaming.

Back in the 1980s, the number of ticker symbols for stocks and funds passed 32767, and for a few days, no new companies could get on the exchanges.

Re:Get a life

[Aladrin]

To everyone saying "Get a Life": What have you done lately that's worth a shit? This doesn't apply to anyone who didn't say it, by the way. Only those who think they are so special that they can tell others to 'get a life'.

I'll give you a hint of things that aren't worth a shit: Playing video games, playing real life sports, drinking, partying, watching tv, watching sports, upgrading your car, buying new toys, buying a new car, hiking, camping, getting married, having a baby, buying a house, and much more..

In fact, anything that doesn't improve the life of the world in general, you can pretty much put in the 'not worth a shit' category.

That seems harsh at first, but playing WoW is how these people have fun, and everything listed above is how other people have fun. Unless you've donated significant money to charity, donated your time to charity, cured a disease, or otherwise improved the world in general, you have no business acting all high and mighty.

Do I claim to fit in the 'worth a shit' category? Not at all. But I don't go telling others how to have fun, either.

Re:Get a life

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, I'm sure he didn't mean to hurt you. Take it easy.

Re:

[eebra82]

I'll give you a hint of things that aren't worth a shit: Playing video games, playing real life sports, drinking, partying, watching tv, watching sports, upgrading your car, buying new toys, buying a new car, hiking, camping, getting married, having a baby, buying a house, and much more.

I thought Murphy's Law was depressing until I read your thoughts.

Re:Get a life

[Aladrin]

It used to just annoy me until someone suggested I should actually go take a hike instead of playing games. Not like 'get lost, loser' but actually take a hike. Like that's somehow better for -anyone- if I do. That's when I realized that entertainment is entertainment, no matter what the form. (Assuming it doesn't actively hurt others, of course.) Why should some hiker feel special because he hikes instead of playing video games?

FWIW: I played D&D twice and found both groups to be complete morons. (I know there are non-moron D&D players out there, but I have yet to actually see them play.) I played WoW for about 2 months before I got bored of it. I'm a gamer, but I can't stand to sit in front of the same game for months at a time grinding. The game has to be interesting, not just a time-sink.

I'm just bloody sick of people getting all high and mighty because they don't play games, and then going and sitting in front of the TV and watching Friends or football.

Re:Get a life

[Aardpig]

Well said, you fat bastard!

Re:Get a life

[Hognoxious]

I met my GF, and the woman I plan to spend my life with, thru WoW

How do you prevent them getting jealous of each other?

Re:

[ubrgeek]

Murphy? I know that guy. 13th level Warlock? I think I was I ran an instanc with him the other day ... ;)

Re:Get a life

[BrentH]

Euh.... get a life?

Re:

[phoenix321]

To sum your post up: "Life is only worth more than human excrement if you rather selflessly helped poor and needy people."

Come out of your ivory tower and then do something that is "not bad for most people". That's ususally enough to do your part on making the world a better place. You could also invent a new technology out of pure evil greed for money and still be extremely contributing to society, though.

"Private vices, public benefits" is the keyword here. It doesn't matter if you get filthy rich while r

Re:Get a life

[patrik]

But...
Playing sports improves your physical endurance.
Working on a car improves your knowledge of mechanics, electronics, etc.
Hiking a new trail every week lets you see new things in the world.
Getting married and having a baby is procreation (do I need to explain how that is useful?).
Going to school and getting a degree means being smarter, richer, better of in all ways. (I know you didn't mention this one, but this is the #1 thing I see people screw over for MMORPGs)

Self-improvement is not worthless to one's self. Sure it's worthless to the world, but you have to balance civic "worth" vs. personal worth. WoW offers almost no chance for self-improvement. While you can argue the social aspect of the game gives you a way of meeting new people or interacting with old friends, it turns out that most people when offered an anonymous mask act like drama queens and morons, so even that aspect is quite limited.

But I'll agree with you that WoW has about the usefulness of watching TV.

Re:

[masterzora]

Disclaimer: I cannot stand playing any MMO, WoW included, for any period of time worth the initial investment.

I have a friend who plays WoW. He tends to be the group leader when he participates in raids and instances (no, I also don't know what either of those refer to in the context of WoW, I just know that they involve groups and he leads the groups). Talking to him, I find that he has learned a lot about leadership by playing WoW and, IMO, that knowledge is far more important than physical endurance

Re:

[stonecypher]

WoW offers almost no chance for self-improvement.

Apparently it teaches you to survive moose attack. Surely that's useful in daily life?

Re:

[WhatAmIDoingHere]

Using your thinking, all we should do is work and sleep, since no form of entertainment contributes to society.

Re:Get a life

[gEvil (beta)]

If you think WoW is better than making babies then you clearly need to get out more.

Re:Get a life

[Anonymous Coward]

clearly you've never played a gnome...

Re:

[kju]

Oh, WoW is surely not better than sex, but it certainly is better than making babies. Babies cost money and rob your sleep. While WoW might rob your sleep as well, the monthly fee for WoW is lot less than what a baby would cost. But there is actually no need to make a baby, just use a contraceptive.

But on the other hand for most slashdot readers this discussion is purely academic and they have no choice but to play WoW :-)

Re:

[an.echte.trilingue]

Oh, WoW is surely not better than sex, but it certainly is better than making babies.

Will WoW take care of you when you are old?

Re:Get a life

[Major League Gamer]

Will WoW take care of you when you are old?

Will our kids?

Re:Get a life

[Lord Ender]

Will WoW take care of you when you are old?

Will our kids?

Have you been in a nursing home lately? They just lie around and watch TV, or have the same boring conversations with each other over and over. By the time I'm in a nursing home, I expect to have a PC with a large selection of multiplayer online games. I expect games like WoW to take care of a lot of my social and entertainment needs when I'm old.

Re:Umm

[spikedvodka]

Ob: None of you guys are parents, are you? I have a 2-year old son, and yeah, kids are expensive, and you lose sleep. but I wouldn't trade him for anything in the world

Re:Umm

[Anonymous Coward]

i know someone who will buy your baby for 214,748 gold

Kids are overrated

[uuxququex]

I'm a parent of a 1 year old boy. Let me tell you that I'd rather be gaming (or anything, really) than change his diaper or try to keep some food in him while he thinks it's funny to spit it through the whole room. Having a kid changes your life drastically.

If I fully realized the impact of kids on my life, I would never have had him. I'd cut off my dick with rusty scissors first.

Not kidding, either.

Re:Umm

[Tony Hoyle]

Well yeah, it's illegal for a start...

Re:Umm

[Dun Malg]

Ob: None of you guys are parents, are you? I have a 2-year old son, and yeah, kids are expensive, and you lose sleep. but I wouldn't trade him for anything in the world

Bah! That's just your biological programming telling you to protect the next iteration of your genes. The rest of us can see that the little monster is just a stinky, screaming terror that that you think the rest of us should go out of our way to protect!

Now, my precious little spawn, she's important...

Re:

[wdavies]

Trouble is, you have to keep the baby afterwards. If you think WOW= No Life, try living with a 3 month old :)

Puts a crimp in ya gaming, let me tell you that.

Re:

[zippthorne]

Ah, so evolution is okay as long as it kills God and lets us give in to hedonism without consequences, but it's not okay if becomes the part of the basis of the replacement ethical system, since the whole point of the exercise is to justify epicurean pursuits. Got it.

Re:

[Ciggy]

Probably a programmer not really thinking about it, or didn't really expect the limit to be reached, used "int money;" as opposed to "unsigned int money;".

Thinking back over the code I've written, I've often used "int " (where int is 4 bytes, signed) when I should have really used an "unsigned int " - of the code which is still in use and for which that will be an issue, it'll be about 2037 before the problem really crops up and I'll be retired; as will, I suspect, the code (though the source is available

Re:

[Durzel]

A signed variable makes sense for some scenarios. For example in Eve Online it is possible to have a negative balance if - for example - you bought ISK (the ingame currency, equivalent to gold) and the game makers caught this. Their standard policy when this happens is to remove the amount bought from your account, which if you've already spent some of it would leave you with a negative balance.

In cases like this players then need to work themselves out of the hole using the normal methods like missions,

Re:GuildWars Limit: 1000p + 100p per Character

[Imsdal]

It took me > 2400 hours of casual gaming to (...)

I'm not sure spending 2400 hours on any one activity can be referred to as "casual"...