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PC Grand Theft Auto IV Features SecuROM DRM
Posted by
Soulskill
on Fri Nov 28, 2008 07:01 PM
from the players-are-pirates-qed dept.
from the players-are-pirates-qed dept.
arcticstoat writes "Game developer Rockstar has revealed that the forthcoming PC version of Grand Theft Auto IV will feature the controversial SecuROM 7 DRM system. Unlike some of EA's recent titles, such as Spore and Mass Effect, GTA IV won't limit the number of times that you can install the game, although SecuROM will be impossible to remove without leaving 'some traces' on your PC. Anyone hoping to avoid SecuROM by downloading the game form Steam will also be disappointed, as Rockstar says that all versions of the game will feature SecuROM, including digital versions online. On the plus side, Rockstar says that it's 'working with SecuROM to post information on our support pages regarding how to remove these inactive traces of the program for users who wish to do so.' Has Rockstar gotten a better balance between draconian DRM and fair copy protection here?"
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no (Score:5, Insightful)
No. Fuck them.
Re:no (Score:5, Informative)
Here's an idea: Don't buy the fucking game. Problem solved.
Parent
Re:no (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not going to be buying it, but that doesn't seem to be solving the problem, as they continue to push this crap.
Parent
Re:no (Score:5, Funny)
as they continue to push this crap.
In "IV" form no less. These game companies will to ANYTHING to get you hooked.
Parent
Re:no (Score:5, Insightful)
However, as we've "discussed" (I use the term loosely) ad nauseum here on
Before I'm labelled as a corporate shill, note that I do not think DRM works. It does NOT prevent piracy, this much we know. But they still SELL a bazillion copies of the latest blockbuster game, so they must be doing something right, in there minds, right? I also think that the number of people that it REALLY causes problems for is pretty small compared to the number of copies sold on any given game. People who think they can bitch loudly on a company web forum and sign useless online petitions are deluding themselves in how much they think that companies give a rat's ass how much they piss an moan. Not until something happens on a truly epic scale (see the first sentence of this post) will they cease putting DRM in their games, and truly explore alternate means of mitigating piracy.
Yes, there are games where it's pretty bad, and yes I've seen the video on Youtube, [youtube.com] and I think that's ridiculous. But I also think that companies like EA and Rockstar are (to engage in hyperbole) filling their swimming pools with cash, and they can only reasonably conclude that it's because they are selling a shitload of games due to the fact that DRM works (again, in their minds).
Parent
Slashdot Effect (Score:5, Insightful)
This is what gets me, is that no one attempts to sprearhead and channel all the users and traffic here.
What if CmdrTaco made a post on the front page tomorrow asking every visitor to Slashdot to send EA a message that they will refuse to purchase any game with DRM. One email won't do it. 100 emails won't do it. But a few thousand emails in a single day is hard to ignore. How many people visit Slashdot in a day? Is a few thousand emails unreasonable for a coordinated effort from the Slashdot community on an issue we all largely seem to agree on?
And perhaps another day CmdrTaco posts a request asking everyone to email Nvidia about their Linux drivers.
Seriously, right now we're an unorganized group of people bitching to each other about issues we agree on as opposed to an organized group expressing our opinion to the appropriate parties.
Parent
Re:no (Score:5, Insightful)
pirating the game just makes one statement:
"I want this game, and I took it for free. If you can find a more secure drm, you will make more money from me"
If you really wanted t protest DRM, you would NOT play the game at all, whilst emailing them to say so.
When you pirate the game, you just get chalked up by the publisher as another pirate, not as some sort of anti-drm protest vote.
The people who pirated my games achieved fuck all in terms of removing DRM. I did that because people emailed me and made rational arguments about being in favour of drm-free games. If you actually want rockstar to ditch DRM, you need to tell them, not just act like the pirates who just want free stuff.
Parent
Re:no (Score:5, Interesting)
On the upside, we who pirate won't get an experience ruined by DRM.
Parent
Re:no (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:no (Score:5, Insightful)
There is no reason for this crap to be on the Steam version. Nadeo bundled Starforce with Trackmania to start with but ultimately removed it.
Treat me like a thief? Then I'll be one. Piracy offering the better alternative again, as Securom will be neutered on the Reloaded (or whoever) release which will probably be out before the game is in all markets.
When are these idiot developers going to get their heads around this? DRM DOES NOT WORK! All it does is force people who value the contents of their PC to not buy their titles.
I wonder where the tipping point is? Because it's going to come soon I think. Where the number of sales LOST due to the DRM becomes an issue.
If you were going to buy GTA IV, and on this news now won't, please post. I mean they've lost my $50.
"Software Piracy: The friendlier, safer alternative."
Parent
Re:no (Score:5, Insightful)
PUBLISHERS, not developers. As a general rule, game developers are against strong DRM, and often, against any DRM at all. The publishers usually strong arm them. In this case, the developer and the publisher is pretty much one and the same (I think...), but I doubt the development department agreed with the suits on this.
Parent
Hmmm (Score:5, Funny)
Not quite all, I imagine.
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Not quite all, I imagine.
I don't even play these games. The humor I see in it is that Spore was cracked on September 3rd [kotaku.com]--four days before its launch date. Um, are they really under the impression that one of these schemes might stop the hackers?
At some point you have to acknowledge that you're just annoying your entire fan base to play a cat-and-mouse game with some hackers (that you're losing in an embarrassing way).
Parent
Re:Hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't even play these games. The humor I see in it is that Spore was cracked on September 3rd [kotaku.com]--four days before its launch date. Um, are they really under the impression that one of these schemes might stop the hackers?
This does nothing to stop determined piracy - we know it, and they know it. What it _does_ do is deter casual copying. For companies like EA, this offers one really compelling feature - it kills the resale market.
When you can only install on X PCs, it gets a lot harder to resell. Resold games don't make them any money.
Parent
Meh (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sure most people don't care (or know) and the ones who do will just grab a "DRM-freed version".
I like to think that DRM is the cause of and not the solution to Piracy :)
Short Answer: No. (Score:5, Interesting)
"Has Rockstar gotten a better balance between draconian DRM and fair copy protection here?"
No. The fact that any sort of DRM that requires access to some other device out on the interwebz when you install it means that someday when Rockstar gets bought/sued out of existence, you might be able to install the game ever again. Until, that is, someone releases a crack for the scheme.
I have games from my DOS days that I can still freely install. THAT is software freedom. Anything less is not.
My email to Rockstar (Score:5, Informative)
I have a simple comment on activation in GTA IV PC - I would appreciate if you could pass this to a relevant person / department (preferably not "Deleted Items").
Do I need to activate this game online?
Rockstar: Yes, but to be clear, if you install the game on a computer that isn't connected to the internet, you can perform certain steps to activate your game on another PC with an active internet connection. Once the game is distributed, information on this method will be available on a GTA IV support page.
Some of my favourite games were written decades ago by companies that no longer exist. GTA IV with its unique story line is an all-time classic, but the activation requirement will at some point in the future render the game unusable. It is for this reason that I refuse to purchase any game that requires activation.
Thank you for your time.
Well... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not a fan of having additional crap like GFWL & This Rockstar Games Social Club, whatever the hell that is, forced upon me during game installs but the real question for me is whether or not it'll let me run Process Explorer (Which long since replaced Task Manager for me) and play the game at the same time (I'm looking at you, Bioshock, amongst others).
Also, why screw over the customers using Steam by including SecuROM? Steam *is* a copy protection mechanism in that restricts the game to a single user and it's not easy to duplicate a legit copy to another Steam account (Harder than downloading a cracked copy anyway). I had enough bad experiences with StarForce to be wary of anything that installs hard-to-remove driver hooks to control application usage.
Feel good security (Score:5, Insightful)
I think people may be missing the human side of the problem. Let's say your an engineer and your manager comes to you and says "zomg! piratez! they r eatin ma soupz!" And being that you're the guy they're paying the big bucks to impliment features, it falls to you to stop people from "pirating". Now, being an engineer you know that there's no way to keep a game from being copied, but your boss is frothing at the mouth and pseudo-geek talk is coming out of his mouth while he runs through the office with a stack of trade magazines -- so you have to do something. So you call up Xyzzy company and tell your boss to pay them a lot of money and the problem goes away. Your boss collapes on his desk in a deep sigh of relief, signs away several million dollars, and -- blammo, SecuROM.
It's called "feel good security". It's the same kind of security you run into in large corporations. You know, you have to use a randomly generated 18 character alphanumeric password and it changes every 90 days... which is great except that when you go to do your timesheets you have to enter your LAN password... which goes over the wire plaintext encapsulated in an HTTP POST query. Oops. Also, because not everybody's memory is so great, it becomes common practice to keep the 18 character passwords written on sticky notes.
This is the true genesis of DRM... Ignorance and management fretting over money. It will be viewed as good as long as they "save" more money than it "costs" them.
Re:Feel good security (Score:5, Funny)
your manager comes to you and says "zomg! piratez! they r eatin ma soupz!"
My manager hardly even talks like that. On the other hand, my cat. . .
Parent
From '92 - '08. RIP PC gaming. (Score:5, Informative)
How things change in just over 15 years.
1992:
Buy Doom after getting to try 1/3 of the game first.
* Be able to play it via dialup modem or LAN for as long as you have the working equipment.
* Be able to sell the game after you're done with it and have that second user have the game be just as usable to them.
* Enjoy playing thousands of user-created maps and mods -- anything from a monster health editor to a porn graphic replacement mod.
2008:
Buy game X.
* Require internet permission to install it. Hopefully you haven't committed the mortal sin of installing it more than three times.
* Require internet permission every time you wish to run the game.
* Require CD checking despite the above.
* Unable to sell the game to people who want something more than a coaster.
* Multiplayer server for Game X goes down after year because Game X 2009 edition is now out. People who still want to play the original Game X via LAN/hosted internet games are SOL and anyone hacking together hosting capabilities likely receives notice from lawyers.
* Have some type of over-zealous security check built into the game mess with your computer, internet connection, or both.
* Deal with an over-moderated/sterile mod community.
Version without DRM easily available (Score:5, Informative)
I can guarantee you that copies from thepiratebay.org and btjunkie.org will be shipping without intrusive DRM or sales tax. Fast delivery. Why would you pay extra to get your machine raeped?
Blah blah blah before the dumb replies, I'm not advocating piracy from companies that treat you with respect, like Stardock. I just won't be buying (or torrenting) this game, period, but this will surely increase the number of people doing the second.
And just to be extra petty and remind you what evil bastards they are, whenever you see 'SecureROM', that's Sony just doing what Sony normally does. Screwing unaware legitimate customers.
The Logic ... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Better Questions (Score:5, Informative)
Simple: Because the person asking the "questions" is a shill.
Parent
Re:Piracy is against the law, just like murder! (Score:5, Insightful)
I sure as hell would steal a car if I could do it by duplicating the original car and creating a brand new copy.
Parent