Arcade Monitors and XFree86 38
Oh, and yes, I'll get the menu system up for download eventually if anyone is interested in it. Its fully functional, but it has a few significant shortcomings yet. It currently is super pimp since it allows arbitrary parameters to be added on a per-system or per-game level. It also displays nice screenshots and pictures and plays MP3s in the background ;)
If anyone else is looking into trying this, check out Happ Controls. They're not shipping right now because of the holidays, but you can get arcade buttons for less then 2 bucks, and a joystick for like 15. I've got enough parts for 2 players. Now I just need to wire them up. (I have to figure out if I should solder them or come up with some sort of clips. I'm more of a software guy then a hardware guy so I'm kinda stumped).
arcadeos (Score:1)
Great arcade joystick for MAME (Score:1)
Re:For what it's worth... (Score:1)
Use the monitor... (Score:1)
Besides, X on what amounts to a TV screen would be pretty ugly anyway. I figure you'd be lucky to get 400x300 (or somesuch).
BTW, use the clips for the controls - at least until you're sure the configuration is what you're after...
Arcade Monitors and XFree86 (Score:1)
Re:http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade.htm (Score:1)
The Arcade Controls FAQ is a great site but it has no information on this topic.
For what it's worth... (Score:1)
I am also interested in finding out what would need to be done to get this setup working on a Linux box, as running Windows on this simple gaming setup seems very wasteful and it's impossible to do any cool remote stuff, but I have not been able to find any information on using the S-Video out on that card under Linux AT ALL. Does anyone have any information on what needs to be done to activate that part of the card, or if it's supposed to TV out automatically if the resolution is below 800x600?
Re:use a card with TV out - NOT! (Score:1)
on a shelf behind a bezel.
Re:Oh come on. (Score:1)
Arcade cabinet (Score:1)
Driving arcade monitors with Xfree86 no problem (Score:1)
Modeline "320x240" 6.29 320 332 380 400 240 246 252 262 +Hsync +Vsync
Modeline "640x240" 12.58 640 664 760 800 240 246 252 262 +Hsync +Vsync
I assume the "medium res" 384 line monitors are similar, but don't have the timing handy. If you are developing arcade games, it is very useful to support these monitors, because then you can sell your product in "kit" form that will work with all monitors. Also, for some reason, big arcade resolution monitors are a lot cheaper than VGA arcade monitors.
SVGA to arcade monitors (Score:1)
However, Paulo Sergio Coelho has a web site [geocities.com] for his DOS and Windows based VGA to TV (similar refresh as low res arcade monitors) drivers that work with a variety of video cards with claims of superior quality as compared to standard tv-out cards I think. I believe source code can be gotten if someone wanted to look at some sort of port or at least a good starting point. Other links of interest:
Tomi Engdahl has several must-visit links - VGA to TV information center [www.hut.fi], VGA to RGB + composite sync -converter [www.hut.fi], and connecting Matrox MGA to TV [www.hut.fi] among others that are probably worth visiting, and the Fixed Frequency Video FAQ [devo.com] is probably on the list as well. I would also definitely visit the TV and Monitor CRT (Picture Tube) Information by Samuel Goldwasser [pacwest.net]. This is getting kind of wordy, for more links hit the "Tech & tips" link on my web site and then the "monitors" link, and/or the "finishing" link and then again the "monitors" link. OH! Also you might contact Brian of PC2Jamma and who is also the author of ArcadeOS [mameworld.net] to see if some sort of port would be possible.
Hope that was of some use :)
Arcade2000 out of business (Score:1)
The only shipping product I know of is the ArcadePC from Hanaho [hanaho.com], which has gotten rave reviews [arcadecontrols.com].
Re:use a card with TV out - NOT! (Score:1)
X on a TV (Score:1)
Lazy option (Score:1)
Arcade2000.com is the only place I found so far and what they offer looks great but are there any other places so I can make a comparison?
PC and Console to JAMMA (Score:1)
BTDT (Score:1)
I just did this a few weeks ago: ripped out the guts of an arcade game and put in a real computer inside. I was lucky enough to find a local company that repairs arcade games, so I got all of my hardware and advice from him. Pretty much the only thing I kept were the controls and the case. I don't know what is is about hearing that quarter fall into the bucket, and then opening the door and getting it out again, but it sure does give me a warm fuzzy. I currently have it hooked up to a regular television, and I'm less than pleased with that. As soon as I find a cheap 19 inch monitor I'm replacing it.
James
Arcade Monitors (Score:1)
Re:use the SVGA monitor (Score:1)
not to much help, but.. (Score:1)
--Semi-----------------------
|semi@nix.org
|#resistance irc.otherside.com
Hooking up your controls (Score:1)
An I-PAC (it is a keyboard encoder from http://www.spaceinvaders.uk.com/ [uk.com])
some
some wire (any from 16 up to 22 gauge)
a small flat head screwdriver (for connecting the wire to the I-PAC)
a knife or wire strippers (for stripping the wire)
a pair of pliers (for crimping the quick disconnects on to the wire)
Once connected up, your controls will act like a standard keyboard.
If you have any questions head over to the message board on http://www.arcadecontrols.com [arcadecontrols.com] and ask. Someone will happily answer them.
Low resolution - a good thing (Score:2)
The fact is, if you want authenticity, an SVGA monitor is never going to look like an original late 1980s coin-op.
Get Snes9x, and run a game fullscreen on an SVGA monitor. Turn off all the posh graphics modes (most emulators now allow you to interpolate, blur etc.). Boggle at the pixelation. This pixellation was less noticable on a TV. A coin-op monitor is the same as a TV in terms of scan frequency, dotpitch etc.
MAME provides scanline and TV emulation modes, where it attempts to simlate the appearance of a lower resolution monitor, but it can only do the best it can with what's avaiable.
So, for the most authentic looking emulation of JAMMA era games, it's gotta be an original JAMMA arcade monitor. I would suggest ditching X for this purpose, and using MAME for DOS (FreeDOS if you like), and ArcadeOS for menuing (see www.mameworld.net) both of these have NTSC resolution modes wherein they underclock certain VGA cards.
Yes, you'll lose the ability to play vector games like Asteroids at 1280x1024; and that's a shame. Some of the newer non-JAMMA games supported by MAME used medium-resolution monitors, and again you'll lose out on those. But I think it's probably worth it if your passion is for all those classic JAMMA games of the late 80s and early 90s.
--
Re:The joysticks, and soldering/clips.... (Score:2)
Yes, that was the argument used back in the '80s when everyone changed to use microswitches in their joysticks. It was bogus at the time, just as it is now. Fortunately, I still have my original leaf switch based Kempston Competition Pro. I was then, and remains to this day, the best joystick ever made. The microswitched versions were just hopelessly lacking in response. You needed to move the stick 2 to 3 times further to get it to register a movement, which completely ruined many games. Give me leaf switches any day. After 15 years, mine still haven't failed. That's hardly unreliable or vague.
it's a pain (Score:2)
Re:The joysticks, and soldering/clips.... (Score:2)
I've had three different leaf switch joysticks and none of them were even remotely precise or responsive. One failed completely (leaf spring went), one partially. The microswitched buttons on my Cyborg 3D are extremely precise and have a short action, while my old microswitched Konix SpeedKing was also very precise.
From long hours of experience with both (leaf switches exclusively for the first few years) I can honestly say that I much prefer microswitches and wouldn't go back without a very good demonstration of exactly why a particular stick was better in spite of leaf switches.
don't bother using an old arcade monitor (Score:2)
Connecting an old monitor is pretty trivial, check the schematics of whatever game you have and you'll see that the monitor connection is very straightforward RGB, with the sync signals either broken out or part of a color channel (green usually). Just make sure your resolution is really low before you start.
That being said, it's easier (and makes more sense) to do the opposite, that is to use a multisync monitor to display the output of your vintage arcade game after its monitor fries. Real easy to hook up and works great. In that same vein, I'm one of the few people who's played Tempest and Battlezone on an oscilloscope.
Michael
The joysticks, and soldering/clips.... (Score:2)
Oh, and about how you should hook them up: I'd suggest figuring out some sort of clip system where you could change things out easily. Arcade controls do take quite a bit of abuse during normal play, and if you aren't too terribly skilled with soldering, it can be a real pain to desolder things to replace them.
One other thing: if you're not already, try to make the controller panel support as many different types of games as possible; things with trackballs, etc. It may not look as arcade-esque, but it would be a good idea.
--Psi
Max, in America, it's customary to drive on the right.
use the SVGA monitor (Score:2)
Copin Op Equipment (Score:2)
I'd make up the control area on a wiring harness, especially if your current control field is like most, and it can be unlatched and removed. Use the old control field as a pattern to make up several other in different configurations. That way you can have one field for car games, another for shoot-um-ups, another for flight, .... you get the picture.
If you still have the coin mech, and state law allows it in your area (it wouldn't in Texas), keep those and hook them up to RI on a serial port or on one of the joystick buttons. Just for kicks, you understand...
Also, if the game cabnet has glass, not plexiglass, but glass, you may wish to take the glass off and scan it into a digitizer of some sort, then print it back out with a color printer onto plexiglass. These glass fronts are impossible to get anymore.
Haiku (Score:2)
Real buttons, joysticks, trackballs...
As USB, mouse
Arcade monitors, circa 1992 at least (Score:3)
When I worked for MP Games in 1992 (a small coin-op maker, once part of Microprose) the arcade monitors were pretty much not very impressave. The were standard NTSC monitors frequently pushed a bit beyond spec. They were chosen mostly baised on size, and price. Color rendition and sharpness and so on were not as important. I was given to understand that that was pretty much industry standard.
This is in sharp contrast to the controls where feel and durability was (mostly!) more important then price.
The color fidelity didn't get corrected for since diffrent batches would have diffrent shifts. The bleed of the screen was sort of taken into account, in that antialiasing wasn't really done except by assuming the monitor would do a bit of color bleed (which is why things like GL mame look a bit more like the originals then stright mame).
Sharper will probbably not look much better (colors will look nicer, but the graphics will look a little more pixelated).
Depending on the era of your machine, and the maker your milage may vary of corse. A few games probbably didn't use normal NTSC monitors, or use high quality ones. But in '92 it was not common, and before that I doubt it was common except for vector games.
Re:The joysticks, and soldering/clips.... (Score:3)
Anyway. Leaf switches also used to be used in seriously cheap joysticks (on the grounds that bent copper was cheaper than 4 microswitches) back in the digital stick days and could get pretty unreliable and vague pretty quickly.
If you're seriously worried about the noise of the microswitches then 1) the sound on the cabinet isn't really loud enough - microswitches aren't _that_ loud_ and 2) you could probably do with thicker MDF for your case. Most of the noise problem is due to them being mounted in thin plastic for a domestic application. Not exactly the case with one of these things, is it?
I know personally I'd agree with the last point though. You could set up a system where the controllers were mounted in their own independent box, screw-mounted. Interfacing it wouldn't be _that_ hard, really
Monitors, Soldering, Refresh Rates, More soldering (Score:3)
I could throw in a 19" SVGA monitor, or I could try to get an arcade monitor and figure out a way to make it run nicely under X. I'm leaning towards the SVGA monitor simply so that I have more resolution options, but there's a part of me that would love to use either the existing arcade screen (despite the burn in) or replace it with a different one. Does anyone have advice for making such a monitor work under XFree?
More generically, you need to find out what scanning rates the old arcade monitor will support. And, you need to figure out what scanning rates your games will try to push it to. If your emulators - in certain games - push the scanning rate beyond the capability of the monitor, at best the display won't be visible. At worst, the smoke will be.
When I run MAME on my Winbloze machine, my Viewsonic monitor changes resolutions with a click and a flash. If I hit the little Viewmeter from the on-screen menu, it will tell me what the scanning rate that a particular game is emulated at. This will give you a ballpark idea.
Here's another ballpark number: 15,750Hz horizontal, 60Hz vertical, video bandwidth of about 5MHz. This is basically part of the NTSC North American (and Japanese) TV standard. Many early video games seem to have simple RGB monitors based on flybacks, deflection circuits and CRTs that were optimized for NTSC frequencies. At the time, VGA standards were overkill - I mean, video RAM was measured in bytes... :)
So, having said all this, what does it boil down to? As newer games that go beyond primitive arcade game displays - and with unpredictable factors based on being in an emulated environment (like, for example, how is vertical and horizontal timing information conveyed to the running game's virtual exists-only-in-my-RAM "hardware"?), I think you'll find that crafting a good quality SVGA monitor into your cabinet will provide you with a more satisfactory experience.
I have to figure out if I should solder them or come up with some sort of clips. I'm more of a software guy then a hardware guy so I'm kinda stumped.Solder, for sure. Make sure you remember to heat the connection with the iron, then use the heated connection to melt the solder! Alternative techniques could result in loose connections under the heavy vibrations of good, frantic play. It's really bothersome when your fire button lets you down when you've timed the shot to the UFO in Space Invaders perfectly.
Remember to mount your monitor and your computer in rubber mounts to ensure that the vibration isn't transmitted to them. Electron guns and hard disk drives don't like vibration.
Re:Arcade Parts (Score:3)
Go with the Wells-Gardner U3100 (Score:4)
The Wells-Gardner U3100 [wellsgardner.com] is the best of both worlds. It looks like an arcade monitor, but it takes an SVGA input. It can supposedly do up to 1024x768 (interlace), but I've only got 800x600 working. Note that the dot pitch is huge, so using a high resolution on this thing is like using a high resolution on a TV. But MAME looks awesome! I've never tried it under XFree, but I've got it working under DOS with my own Game Launcher [dribin.org] menu using both Voodoo 3 and ATI-XPert@Play cards. Given this, you should have little trouble with X. I bought mine from Happ Controls [happcontrols.com].
http://www.arcadecontrols.com/arcade.htm (Score:5)
Using an arcade monitor with VGA out (Score:5)
Since I work for a company that makes arcade games and since I did video programming for such a system, maybe I can help
Arcade monitors come in two kinds (mostly). Low res and medium res. Low res will only do 240 scanlines at 60hz, medium res is normally 384 scanlines at 60hz. The biggest problem you'll face is that these days everything is 480 scanlines minimum, with the low-level video hardware line doubling for 'old' modes.
The system I worked on, Pinball 2000, used a Cyrix MediaGX for CPU and video and we could happily drive a low-res monitor at 640x240 at 60hz but we were not using a VGA mode. On that hardware VGA is _emulated_ so we threw that away and set all the timings up ourselves at the register level. It was a pain to get right, requiring an oscilloscope to provide sanity checks that we were getting the correct frequencies.
So, sure, you can hook a coin-op monitor up to your PC but it will likely require more work and be less useful than most would want to deal with.