Playing an FPS for Money? 162
IronChef writes "Ran across a web site where someone is attempting to combine online games and cash. The difference here is it looks like it's not some big tournament where everyone gathers and the top 3 out of a field of hundreds get paid, but a small group jumps into a server for a buck or two per head, and the winner cashes out on the spot." And you thought you swear a lot when you lag now!
d00dZ Unl73 (Score:1)
Re:Playing an FPS for Monkey? (Score:2)
Re:Gambling laws? (Score:2)
Recently, a bill was introduced in congress outlawing gambling in any form over the internet. It died in congress. Laws saying the same thing exist in a few states. If you live in one these, urbanmercenary is clearly illegal, even though it is a game of skill (like poker and sports betting). Otherwise, it is very unclear. There is a law prohibitting placing bets over a phone line from somewhere where gambling is illegal and those *may* apply here. Also, I hope urbanmercenary is based overseas like all online poker rooms are.
The main issue with legality as far as these things go is not the gambling itself; you will not be tracked down for gambling online and arrested, Janet Reno's comments this week on 20/20 not withstanding. The issues are that the site may be shut down if it is based in the US (especially since there may be a lot of people playing who are minors) and, more importantly, that if you make a living on it you may have some big tax problems. Casino gambling is different because you can do everything in cash, but here everything you win will get deposited into your bank account, which will be hard to explain to the IRS.
Care about freedom?
Professional Sports (Score:2)
Whooot
Re:what about honesty of the COMPANY? (Score:2)
game over the net, but this is 40 programmers
sweating away at the code to make sure that
you don't loose a fraction of the penny and
when you win, is when you used your skills
to steal coins frags, etc. Moderator should
look on the site and read thru it before +3 ing
the post.
Real time strategy (Score:2)
Internet COCK FIGHTS (Score:2)
Re:Texture based ads... (Score:1)
Re:Security & Hackers? (Score:1)
Re:Texture based ads... (Score:1)
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Re:Oh yeah. (Score:1)
Re:Oh yeah. (Score:1)
great idea (Score:2)
It's ideas like this that will get online accounts, micropayments, and stuff like that into the mainstream. It is looking like people won't pay too much to play games online, but throwing money into a pot with a chance to double it! OH YEAH! That will add spice to a game and make a great revenue model. Wish I had thought of this... So much better than on-line gambling, etc. Please note that these guys are Canadian, eh? Or at least the company is... :)
Looking at the screenshots I though maybe I saw some Quake-like images there... I am not a gamer so I don't keep up on these things (OBVIOUSLY) but have they done something with the Quake code or is this a new from-scratch product they developed?
--8<--
Some safeguards... (Score:3)
http://www.globalrankings.com
Latency & Internet Connection (Score:1)
Multiplayer Problems (Score:1)
What happens with cheaters? You know, user A ping-floods user B, user C looks through walls, etc. This happens enough in regular play; what will happen when money gets involved? Is there some way to protect against this?
Problems and solutions... (Score:1)
But if they require a credit card number...there's a natural resistance of people wanting to put their CC out there. Once they've 'bought' into the game, a certain percentage will be hooked (and be back), but the initial hook-in is difficult.
(Can you imagine them offering $30 worth of credits and a boxed version in CompUSA... "Look dear, a new game for Jimmy!")
But look at it this way...10 people pay $5 to play. Winner get's (I don't know) $25 for winning. (They keep $25). Not a bad deal for them...not bad for the winner.
Re:Gambling laws? (Score:3)
as most, IANAL...
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YEAH!!! Scamming on the web... (Score:1)
Good luck, if you feel you need to gamble. ;-)
Two things. (Score:1)
2. Um, the site this article links to can't handle the /. effect ... it's lagged quite badly. :\ I guess I'll read the particulars about all this later...
Re:Texture based ads... (it's been done!) (Score:2)
Sure, remember the Playstation version of Wipeout 2097? All the tracks were littered with Red Bull banners. Also there was a cute Genesis platformer a few years back called Cool Spot, sponsored by 7-UP. Your character was the red spot from the middle of the 7-UP logo with arms, legs and shades, and the bonus levels were set inside bottles of 7-UP where you had to ride up to the top on bubbles. Also, there was Zool, another cutesy platformer where you had to pick up Chupa Chups lollies for bonuses. I think in all cases, the advertiser's money resulted in a much better game (or maybe I never played any sponsored games that sucked); it's a shame it doesn't happen more often, to be honest, since I can't see that games developers wouldn't mind funding from somebody whose interest isn't solely in meeting the next milestone or publishing deadline. But as somebody else pointed out, I can't see many advertisers wanting to have their ads in games where their shiny logo could be splattered with gore
Re:Oh yeah. (Score:1)
Payment (Score:2)
Re:Texture based ads... (Score:1)
Re:gambling + gaming = addiction X 2 (Score:1)
"Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
(I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)
Pure Discrimination (Score:1)
1.0 - Minimum System Requirements - (aka take care of the tech)
1) Windows 9x, ME or NT (Windows 2000 is not currently supported)
2) nVidia (TNT2, GeForce...), Voodoo (3 or above) chipset or S3 Mobile chipset
3) 64M Ram
4) 200+ M in Windows partition
5) 16 bit sound
A more detailed Graphics Card requirement list is available in the readme file included in the game download.
* All current ATI and Matrox drivers are currently incompatible
Wow what a crock! My beloved Radeon 64MB DDR VIVO is worthless.
Of course, I have ways of making you work...
Re:Texture based ads... (Score:1)
Not quite right. (Score:1)
No.... I die.
Re:Cheating (Score:1)
"Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto"
(I am a man: nothing human is alien to me)
I can see it now... (Score:2)
--The Kid
The Citadel [thecitadel.net]
Oh yeah. (Score:1)
So easy to cheat! As a matter of fact... (Score:1)
Re:Damn this is expensive! (Score:2)
1 cent for 5 minutes, not 1 dollar.
320 credits = $3.20 = $.01/credit.
Cheap(ish).
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Re:Bad idea... (Score:1)
Alternatively, create a section for various levels of bot-dom (aim-bot to complete computer controlled), and it may become a non-issue.
Oy, my knee caps (Score:1)
Or is some computer AI going to break my Quake guy's arm so he can't use the rocket launcher?
Anyways, this could be interesting. However, I think it's going to cause to end up pissing alot of people off and cause more problems then it's worth.
ummm (Score:1)
While I understand the need to appeal to teenage boys by using cool names, but do they really think that if they are even moderately succesful that they won't have some marketing problems with those names?
I do think that this is an interesting idea, but I think that they're shooting themselves in the foot with those names.
It's 10pm, do you know where your children are?
Little Johnny is locked in his room earning Bloodmoney as a high-tech mercenary with the new computer we bought him for Christmas. He's such a little angel.
BAHH!!! (Score:1)
mod both of my posts down appropriately...
it has been a long day.
That's what happens when you try to do simple math while debugging code...
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Re:I can see this starting... (Score:1)
There is a reason that us non-believers started calling Magic "Cardboard Crack" since it is expensive, addictive, and serves no real purpose.
I'm not sure if it was because Wizards of the Coast® is a local company or these people had more money than they knew what to do with.
Lesson Learned? (Score:1)
"diable armeggadon"
Times 10.
It's waiting to happen when you mix cash and games.
hmm . . . (Score:2)
Hawk, who prefers western, but also listens to real country.
"And if you don't like Hank Williams, honey, you can kiss my MLK%$)Y*(^)&*
Re:Cheating (Score:1)
poker rooms (Score:2)
I can't speak for the rest of the world, but in Nevada, the point of those players isn't to take you, but rather to provide enough players to have a game.
It's been a while, but I believe that casinos are required to identify which players work for them on request.
hawk, a displaced Nevadan
Re:Um FPS? Craps? What's the difference? (Score:1)
Well the difference is that is some skill [or so they say] involved in FPS.
This is more like the pool tournaments bars have - small entry fee, and a pot split with the winners (and I assume the site, couldn't realy find details on that . .
IANAL and all that BS, for all I know, the pool tournaments I play in each week are illegal
echo $email | sed s/[A-Z]//g | rot13
Re:Go for the triple-whammy! (Score:1)
You pretty much just described modern arcades.
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Re:Gambling laws? (Score:1)
Re:Anyone remember Starcade?? (Score:1)
Yes, I remember Starcade. I was on the show.
Here's the Starcade Web site [jmpc.com]. (And here's me on the show [jmpc.com].)
Scary, ain't it? :-)
Schwab
Re:Professional Sports (Score:1)
People like to see the best play. Its as simple as that.
See, the problem is, *watching* people play video games is mind numbingly boring. Either you're watching a demo/movie of the game itself, or you're watching a room with a pasty geek sitting, twitching infront of a console.
Niether of those is entertaining. Football, basketball, hockey, etc. are entertaining becasue you actually get to see real people do really exciting things like ram into each other on ice at 70mph, and viceral, exciting acts like that.
After 5 minutes of watching a quake demo, I'd rather go play quake myself. Try it and see.
The only people who are generally interested in watching demos and analysis of video games are those who play seriously themselves, and want to improve thier game.
Check out http://www.shoryuken.com/ [shoryuken.com] - it's a Street Fighter tournament site (I'd give a better link, but it looks down right now). There are tournament videos, and analysis of videos there. Would you really pay to see shit like that?
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Could this... (Score:1)
Any thoughts?
--Gfunk
Re:Internet COCK FIGHTS (Score:1)
I remember something akin to that actually happening with Age of Empires. If I recall correctly, it was a scripting contest of sorts. The scripter with the top AI being the winner, of course. A neat idea, really.
-t0rren
Re: (Score:1)
Re:Cheating (Score:2)
Fraud is a crime. You can prosecute it. You can sue cheaters in civil court. You can seize their computers. You can take lots of money away from them. You can make the lives of a few cheaters miserable and scare off a bunch more.
Re:this isn't exactly a new innovation (Score:2)
Re:Gambling laws? (Score:1)
I don't think this is a problem, since it actually involves competition, with the winner getting a prize. Sort of like a basketball tournament with a five dollar fee with the winner taking the pot. Actually, exactly like that. Also, I know that "pools" are legal (at least in Ohio) so long as the person in charge does not skim any money off of the top. One example of this would be a pool for the NCAA basketball tournament (fill out the brackets, the person who does best wins).
and remember...IANAL
Texture based ads... (Score:5)
Maybe you could even get advertiser sponsored game servers. I don't think I'd mind an occasional coke ad on the wall (or even product placements!!! Just like the movies.. ) in exchange for a nice, fast server to play on.
Re:gambling + gaming = addiction X 2 (Score:2)
There are several things that could be done to prevent cheaters prospering, such as human "umpires", reputation measures, statistical analysis, and the like.
Excellent (Score:1)
what about honesty of the COMPANY? (Score:3)
Obvious and Profitable (eventually) (Score:4)
The question isn't *if* these guys are going to get rich (they might, they might not), but who is going to be the first to do it right.
Forget about "legality". There are ways around that, and to start off with, nobody will notice this shit building in the background. Not until there is a huge splash in the press about some mum who thinks her kid is becoming obsessed (...blah blah blah: you should all know the pattern by now). By the time that there is a move control it through special legislation, it will have become too popular to stop by fiat. Besides, with servers in Antigua, who gives a fsck what the Americans think?
So the issues to be addressed are: what business models to use, what kind of games are most "immersive"/addictive, and can you turn this kind of thing into (virtual) reality TV? I mean, once you have "star" players and teams, will people be interested enough to either lurk and watch the pros at work, or sit back and watch it on cable with some popcorn. The potential for drama and soap-opera appeal should NOT be underestimated here.
Personally, I want the Mechwarrior universe online, with battles on Solaris and House feuds, etc. Any genre is open for exploitation here, with its own audience. Gamblers and cheaters will just add spice. (besides, if you're a smart game service, you HIRE the cheaters to work FOR you).
Give it time. It'll happen. And don't worry about all the naysayers. They don't understand what's happening here.
is this anything new? (Score:2)
Now yeah ok some of the things i mentioned are people betting on other things, where as in gaming its people betting on themselves... But i'm not sure anyone can Really act suprised... Teens and geeks in my city used to Play Mortal Kombat in arcades at 5 dollars a win, 5 years ago? Were we pioneers? or really just fulfilling the human need to bet?
Re:Go for the triple-whammy! (Score:1)
Re:Security & Hackers? (Score:1)
Enigma
It's OK (Score:1)
Re:That's just swell... (Score:2)
Not a good sign of their Linux compatibility.
Re:Anyone remember Starcade?? (Score:2)
Re:I can see this starting... (Score:2)
I don't know if Magic might just be trend, but FPS gaming is definitely not "just a trend", so I doubt it will die completely, and I'm sure you will see people eventually making a living off of it. FPS is tending toward "sport" status, which means you'll be seeing more and more competitions etc, much like games like pool. You can play pool informally for smallish bets in bars etc - a bit like what this article is about. At the next level you can play in small local competitions as a hobby, aside from your real job. Finally, a tiny minority of really talented people will make a living off of doing only this - the FPS equivalent of people like Jimmy White and Steve Davis of pool/snooker. This is the direction FPS gaming is going. I doubt it will ever become one of the primary spectator sports though (e.g. like baseball in the states, rugby/football/cricket etc.)
Re:Internet COCK FIGHTS (Score:1)
to run around and kill one another, you learn
what works and what doesn't, but seriously,
anything goes.
Re:Texture based ads... (Score:2)
Re:Real time strategy (Score:2)
Re:Cheating (Score:2)
Re:Undetectable driver hacks - transparent texture (Score:2)
As any security expert has already explained -- not to mention Carmack the Magnificent on numerous occasions -- cheating can never be prevented in the "trusted client" model. There is no way you can reliably verify the integrity of the client on a machine not in your physical control. Period. Thus, all the work has to be performed on an electronically and physically secure server.
As for making textures transparent, that serves cheating purposes only because it's a side-effect of over-reliance on Z-buffers. Z-buffers are the most popular method of hidden surface elimination in CG rendering. However, Z-buffers don't eliminate hidden surfaces, they obscure them. Making polygons translucent helps un-obscure otherwise invisible geometry.
Back in the days of wireframe-only displays and pen plotters, a lot of research went into hidden line elimination, which is a variant of hidden surface elimination. Curiously, hidden line elimination is vastly harder to do, since you can't "erase" anything after you've drawn it. You must eliminate all unseen components from the object geometry before passing them on to the renderer. That's seriously icky math, since you have polygons slicing other polygons, thereby creating even more polygons. Add in the fact that you'd like to avoid drawing the same edge multiple times, or cutting a straight segment into a zillion tiny pieces, and the problem becomes even messier. Research into hidden line elimination was largely abandoned when raster displays became fast and cheap enough such that erasing/overdrawing previously-drawn imagery became viable.
So now it seems we come full circle: The only way you can thwart the translucent polygon hack is to perform the full geometric clipping (as hidden line elimination tried to do) such that invisible geometry is simply not passed to the renderer. Perhaps gaming sites such as this will stimulate renewed research into the area.
As for aim bots: Carmack the Magnificent has previously opined that a very talented player will be detected by advanced anti-cheating heuristics as a subtle aim bot. If you happen to be that talented player booted off the server, you will not be at all happy. (OTOH, Vegas casinos routinely eject card counters playing the Blackjack tables. So if you're hyper-good, they likely don't want you in their place, anyway.)
Schwab
Re:Texture based ads... (Score:2)
ACM Contests (Score:2)
Re:Texture based ads... (Score:2)
W
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Re:great idea (Score:2)
--8<--
Security & Hackers? (Score:5)
Q: Why do you require my social security # or social insurance # when I withdraw money from my account?
A: If you live within Canada or the U.S. You are required to submit your winning as income.
Q: Should I be worried about hackers?
A: No, we have many many security features installed to make sure you are safe.
Arg! Since I can earn winnings (Taxable income) from these guys, they want my Name, Address, CCard Number, date of birth and Social Security Number. How do I know this information is safe?
According to the video [urbanmercenary.com], everything is secured with a "proprietary security system". What the heck does that mean?
219 Megabytes (Score:2)
Never trust a guy who has his IP address tattoed to his arm, especially if DHCP.
Go for the triple-whammy! (Score:3)
Hey, now you're on to something! If they'd pay my earnings out in heroin, I could combine all 3 [dictionary.com] of my dangerous habits into one. Man, what a time-saver this will be!
Sign me up!
Re:Where's the business model? (Score:3)
They also provide services like Domain Registration ($15-25), Web Hosting ($2.50 - 10/month), secure servers ($50-100), etc. Basically, the higher your monthly membership fee, the lower your OTHER fees.
I notice that alot of gaming & clan websitessites have trouble staying with one provider, so perhaps Bloodmoney is trying to bank off of that opportunity.
Other then the gaming membership, I don't really see anything unique about their web services. I notice that they do NOT provide any dialup or DSL/cable access, which is pretty smart. The Access business is pretty darn volitile.
(only slightly OT) Selling game characters for $$$ (Score:3)
Check out this following illegal link to ebay [ebay.com], for example.
$1500 for a game character?!! Holy shit, my roommate should just quit his job and start developing these characters. Question is, how long does it take to create something that someone will shell out this kind of money for?
Highly doubt any good players will be there. (Score:2)
I doubt many hi-end fps champs are really gonna go on this thing, heck they all make tons of money doing product endorsements and such. I've also heard stuff like the hi-enders don't go online as themselves anymore because of too many people playing "smear the queer" Where as soon as they enter a server, everyone and his brother wants to say "I killed thresh!!"
As much as I would like to see this game have success I have to give it the kiss of death allready for several reasons.
1. Most FPS gamers do not believe in the pay for play system.
2. What is the liability for cheating?
3. Its sports gambling, all sorts of stuff can and will be rigged.
I'll give it $20 bucks before I say, "ok this sucks"
--toq
Anyone remember Starcade?? (Score:2)
This just reminded me of an old gameshow from the 80s called Starcade (IIRC). My memory of it is fuzzy now, but I believe the contestants would have to answer game-related questions and play arcade games for points. Was interesting at the time, but I've never seen anything like it since.
gambling + gaming = addiction X 2 (Score:4)
This sounds like fun actually, using micropayments or something to have a little more stake in the game. But yes I can see the emotions/reactions getting stronger during playing if there's real money involved. The incentive to cheat using scripts or other hacks would be much greater..
Brett
Gambling laws? (Score:3)
Also, this concept of gaming-for-something is similar to what is generally perceived as "The Next Big Thing" in the gaming industry - free forms of economic reward/punishment among multiplayer gamers. A lot of online RPG's followed this formula - it makes sense that FPS's are following suit (FPS's generally take RPG concepts, and 3d-ize them... the former follows the latter)
Trade, if you will, for a newly formed society. The "Everquest" effect...
Where's the business model? (Score:3)
Jezus, this is a bankruptcy [fuckedcompany.com] waiting to happen.
Sweet (Score:2)
I'd actually able to make some money from my Quake3 addiction.
I wonder if they will put out games which you can only play on their network,
or regular games cheaper that you can only play on their.
What about gang-style play? (Score:5)
If a ganger runs low on cash, he kills his teamie for money, so the team is always with a few bucks, and can continue to take everyone else for granted.
I've used these tactics with TFC, Infiltration, etc before... nothing to prevent me to apply it this way and make a few bucks every night. Curious as to what measures are in place to prevent this kind of abuse.
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Re:Texture based ads... (Score:4)
Cut to Quake player 1, completely out of ammo, hawling ass around a tight corner, emerging into a chamber, when he turns to face the wall, looking up to see an ENORMOUS billboard of a bikini-clad woman advertising a radio station...
[Quake Player 1] Whoaah... Dude!
Cut to an over-the-shoulder shot of a manacing player, carrying a fully-loaded rocket launcher, slowly walking up behind Player 1...
[Quake Player 2] Foolish hormone-laden homo sapiens adolescent...
Quake Player 1 turns around, face an image of sheer terror...
[Quake Player 1] Nooooo!
BLAM! Gibblets are scattered throughout a hundred meter radius...
Foolproof method to stop cheaters (Score:2)
Oh wait, that won't work...
Re:Texture based ads... (Score:2)
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Re:Texture based ads... (Score:2)
proprietary security system means... (Score:4)
Re:what about honesty of the COMPANY? (Score:2)
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Cheating (Score:5)
This gaming model is beautiful, but it's also the optimal model to encourage cheating; small enough for cheaters to be relatively anonymous, but still a real incentive for unscrupulous cheating -- and many players won't even know they were robbed. So, I wonder what safegaurds they'll put in place? Nothing is provably perfect, of course, but if they're careful, smart, and very diligent, it's possible to make it arbitrarily difficult for cheaters (e.g., requiring positive identification at registration, an auto-updating client that incorporates a challenge/response system that changes daily, etc)... I wonder if they'll expend the effort neccessary to do this right?
-spcI can see this starting... (Score:5)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Cheating (Score:2)
Is there anyplace outside the U.S. with small enough 'lag' to rally compete?
P.S., Canada doesn't count until the have FPS-Hockey :)
This has been done to death.... (Score:2)
--
"Don't trolls get tired?"
Re:Texture based ads... (Score:4)
Id software's license agreement for the q3 sdk code including Radiant, the BSP/PVS generator and the light cooking tools do not allow you to commercially exploit the game in any way shape or form.
There's also the marketers of big companies who are savvy to the media hype around video games being 'murder simulators'. Would you want your soft drink logo to get blood splattered on it, or a corpse lying next to it?
Bot wars to come (Score:2)
Although it could be interesting to see a bot war in a FPS
Bad idea... (Score:3)
They're really going to need a good skill-matching service. I mean, if I played UT on some of the highly-trafficed US servers when I was learning, and it was costing me $1.00 per time, I'd be massively in debt now.
What about cheaters? Someone tell me how you can detect or foil an aim-bot? It's bad enough now. When there's monetary incentive for the cheaters, this is going to be a HUGE problem.