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Civilization III from Sid Meier 88

Posted by Hemos
from the waiting-in-eager-anticipation dept.
blitzrage writes "Here is some info on the long awaited Civilization III game from Sid Myer. Thankfully the patent got back to Sid Meier, after some games of hot potatoe with it. The story is on Neoseeker." Having large portions of my life to the original, II, Railroad Tycoon and Alpha Centauri, I'm not sure if I should be joyful about this, or fearful of the time I'll lose.
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Civilization III from Sid Meier

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  • by Anonymous Coward
    no, Mssrs. Meier has the actual patent on civilisation itself, I assure you.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 19, 2001 @08:40AM (#211607)
    It's not a patent, it's a license. If you're going to argue for IP rights for Napster/DVD/CSS, you should at least learn the terminology and apply it correctly, in all cases.
  • by Joe Rumsey (2194) on Saturday May 19, 2001 @08:46AM (#211608)
    As a programmer of CTP, I would like to thank you for revealing to me this previously unknown use of my program. It is always wonderful to hear how people find new and cool uses for the things you create. I am going to call my former coworkers from the marketing department at Activision (I'm not there any more, they still are) and tell them to start pursuing cross-licensing deals with crib manufacturers, Gerber's, etc. There's nothing that'll get 'em into a bigger frenzy than a brand new demographic. And what could be more natural than a new parent-world domination link? Not much, I think. Thanks again!

    Joe

    P.S. ;-)

  • I think the graphics got _worse_ in Civ II. Compare the meetings with enemy leaders, for example. The original Civilization had an animated face for each leader, with cool-looking backgrounds depending on government type, but as far as I can see the sequel just has a boring still picture.

    And I agree about the 3d map being sucky. I think the essential problem is that Civ II takes itself too seriously; Civ I tries harder to be fun and accessible.
  • Anonymous Coward asked:

    Wasn't Alpha Centuri for Linux put on ice because Loki though that there wasn't a market?

    Err - no [lokigames.com].

    HTH.

  • Some of them gave production of something like
    2000/2000/2000 or something. I remember that you couldn't irrigate it or it would wrap around to negative, or something.

    I still remember beating the game by starving the rest of the world to death, rather than military conquest. Laying siege to a whole continent is quite entertaining, especially if you convinced them that you had a valid treaty. The AI would just sit there and starve to death.
  • From the article: "We think culture is what causes things like France to happen."

    DOWN WITH CULTURE!!!

    But seriously, for a while there I was heavily into Civilization. One night I sat down at about 8 p.m. for a game and five minutes later, it was 1:30 in the morning. I had to cool it around then. :-)
  • I think Alpha Centauri is one of the most addictive games I've ever played. The quotes throughout the game and the ideaologies behind the factions just made it hours-wastin'-fun. But I have less to fear with Civilization. Lack of an active story in the game sort of got me down. Cheers to Sid for another.

  • by Pope (17780) on Saturday May 19, 2001 @08:36AM (#211614)
    If it's as addictive as the very first one, you won't see your wife to MAKE the second kid! :)
  • Got that right. I read the post and thought "Dude! Sid PATENTED Civ? Why'd the moron give it up?"

    But hey, this is /., so no one has ever heard of the intellectual property FAQ (look for it on google) and thinks license=trademark=copyright=patent.
  • I'd like that one to have slave trading included. Colonization allowed you to commit genocide on the indian tribes, which is true to history, but lacked any slave trading, which was an important aspect of that era.

  • by Krilomir (29904) on Saturday May 19, 2001 @08:38AM (#211617)
    This isn't really news ... Civilization III has actually had it's own website for quite some time. Check out http://www.firaxis.com/civ3/ [firaxis.com] for "Ask the Dev Team", faq, pictures, screenshots and some other neat stuff.

    Looks like they aren't going to create a whole new game, just polish the ideas from the original Civilization and Civlization II. For instance, diplomacy and war will be greatly improved, the terrain/resources-system will be better and just about everything will be tweaked to make it better than the previous versions.

    Personally, I'm really looking forward to this game. I really like how they are listening to the fans and adding features on request (to a limit, of course).

  • s/Myer/Meier

    How did the OP manage to spell the guy's name both right and wrong in the post? And it's potato. Dammit.
  • Uh, dude, if you don't know yet, the words within the double-quotes that are italized are NOT from the Hemos, but from the submitter of the story - in this case, blitzrage (hence, "blitzrage writes", as in, he/she wrote the following within the quotes). Anyhoo....
  • Hehe, yeah, I pressed the submit too early. I meant to say that "wasn't" not was.

    Sorry.
  • by jammer 4 (34274) on Saturday May 19, 2001 @08:34AM (#211621) Homepage
    Hehe, I have such great memories. Even though it was Sid Meier, Civ Call to Power was pretty good and got me through the first two weeks of my first kid. I'd play for an hour, go feed him, go back and play for an hour or two, go feed him, hehehe. Guess I'll have to have another kid when III comes out :).
  • You want to attribute that to Bill Hicks, please?

    www.billhicks.com

    Just because the man's dead doesn't mean you shouldn't give credit where credit's due.
  • Stacking units should make them harder to kill, as well... none of that "kill 15 units with three missile rovers" nonsense.

    And I would like, for once, an a.i. program that doesn't do blatantly stupid things like build 75 bombers/cruise missile/planet busters and then not use them to attack me when we are at war (or declare war on me because I wouldn't give them the secret to some high-level weapons technology). AI programming in civ/civ2/smac is some of the worst of any game I've ever played.

  • Never to trust that a teacher knows how to spell basic words?

    (See http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/OnBackgrou nd/onbackground990927.html [go.com]).
  • by Stonehand (71085) on Saturday May 19, 2001 @09:34AM (#211625) Homepage
    Well, for starters...

    a) implement air units in a _reasonable_ way -- find a way to let them fly OVER other units, for cryin' out loud. In SMAC you could block planet-busting missiles with a line of Chiron locusts...

    b) less blatant AI cheating; even if they know exactly how much tech and money you have, and whether you have nukes, AI's really shouldn't *flaunt* it.

    c) tech costs that are based on specific areas, and not just how many (of any kind) techs you already have

    d) differentiate between "hard to kill" versus "likely to kill you if you try". Not all battles should end in a unit death.

    e) a GOTO algorithm that actually handles a *round world* and doesn't try to go the long way around if you cross 0 longitude.

    f) quality control. Please, fewer blatant bugs like infinite-range AI missiles, et al.

    g) auto-engineers/formers that AREN'T so irritating, riding around rails in infinite loops, that I vaporize them out of contempt.

    h) Interface improvements. e.g. ability to drag a line indicating multiple squares where I want a railroad to be built. CivII/SMAC both degenerate into massive amounts of inane micro in large worlds.

    i) if they go with SMAC-style social engineering... make them fit. Morgan had the LEAST incentive to go Free Markets, for instance, because a mere +1 economy would suffice for the big boost rather than +2.
  • I'm all played out from the days of C&C 1. Ahhhh, the days of the my Pentium 75..
  • It might interest the readership to know that there is a free (speech) version of Civilization, Freeciv [freeciv.org].
  • Hmm. Maybe Hemos is Dan Quayle?
  • Hmm. The font I browse with doesn't appear to have italics. Unfortunately it's also the best one for the job. Oh well...
  • My biggest gripe in civ is that you always end up having to kill off all the computer players, even the ones you were getting on with quite well originally. If you happen to build the starship or get the aliens or whatever before you've eliminated every other civilization on the planet, that's fine, but you WILL have to eliminate every other civilization on the planet. The Alpha Centauri model is slightly better -- once you beat them down, they surrender and don't give you any more trouble. Very occasionally one will want to pledge a pact with you which actually lasts through the end of the game. You still have to beat down all the other civs though.

    You gotta wonder how closely that mimics real life...

  • I just love conquering all the races with nukes.

    I really loved the first Civilization (we had a 33 Mhz 486/SX). I remember games lasting months (I wasn't very good), eventually culminating in an all out nuclear exchange with someone (usually the Zulus or Aztecs), followed by a very protracted land war. It was fun. :)
  • I played the hell out of that game on a Mac SE (16Mhz 68000, 9" 1-bit display,

    Oh, yeah. We had a bunch of those in my school ~6th grade (along with a bunch of Apple ][, etc).

    in case you're under the average /. age of 16.)

    Heh. /. is one of the few places a 19 year old can go and feel old. :)

    These new graphics scare me.

    Yeah, I'm not sure if it's just me getting older, or what, but I could/can get into games with fairly low-tek graphics like Doom, Civ, and in the obvious extreme case Nethack, Zork, etc, much easier than most of the modern games. I really disliked Civ II's graphics when it first game out - after a while I got use to it, sort of, but I still prefer the original.

    I wonder if Sid would consider putting two alternate interfaces on Civ III, the tweaked out high res version everyone is expecting, and one that looks just like original Civiliazation. I would def. buy it then. (Hmmm... perhaps I should look into FreeCiv...)
  • That question has been answered in the FAQ..

    Actually, that FAQ is several months out of date. For example, MacSoft is doing a Civ3 port [macworld.com] (gee, guess which platform?) so there is at least one commitment yet.

    But it's a shame Civ3 will probably use DirectPlay (aka the Seinfeld Network Nazi) just like all of the other Firaxis games. No cross-platform multiplay for you!

  • Deep fried mars bars, what's the problem?

    Though actually I prefer deep fried bounty bars after my chip supper (chippy on South Bridge in Edinburgh does excellent frying, real professionals, will fry anything..)

  • That they don't get bought by Microsoft like the Bungie network did. I bought Myth II for linux the other day and magically my serial number to play online (on Bungie.net) doesn't work.

  • no, i can't 'register' it. But wtf did i get offtopic for? hehe the Civ series has bounced through more hands than well, something that bounces through a lot of hands. fucking moderators are stupid.

  • by T.Hobbes (101603) on Saturday May 19, 2001 @11:49AM (#211637)
    That question has been answered in the FAQ.. (from http://www.firaxis.com/civ3/faq-general.cfm#q8 [firaxis.com]):
    • Are there any plans for Civilization III to be made for the Mac, Linux or other gaming platforms?
    The publisher, Hasbro Interactive, makes decisions regarding ports to other platforms. Since this is a major release, you'll most likely see ports to other platforms, but there are no commitments yet. We'll keep you posted.

    Linus has,in fact,grown,and explosively-JonKatz
  • by Cheshire Cat (105171) on Saturday May 19, 2001 @08:51AM (#211638) Homepage
    There is no 'e' in Potato. Didn't we learn anything from the Dan Quayle debacle some years ago?
  • I wonder what you mean by doesn't work. They moved the server (again), which means that the new IP address needs to propogate. It took a month before I could get to Bungie.net last time. It sucks, but it doesn't have anything to do with your serial number, it just has to do with Microsoft sucking all assand treating Bungie.net like an embasrassing rash.
  • The job at hand is "reading Slashdot". If you've been here for these past two years thinking that all text in the article introduction is written by the "editor" (I use the term loosely of course, ahem), then apparently it is not the best font for the job.

    Or you could just admit that you were mistaken and stop this metaphorical "looking behind myself for a nonexistant obstacle after tripping over my own big feet" nonsense. :-) We all know that MSIE5.5 supports italics, Greyfox. ;-p

    --

  • When are Linux/Open Source going to start producing some ORIGINAL games?
    I'm sure I'll be modded down for saying this (hint hint!), but the truth is that's all Open-Source developers ever do. The Linux kernel is half-assed ripoff of the SVr4 UNIX kernel. Bash and the sh-utils are all copies of their UNIX equivalents. The GIMP is a copy of Photoshop. Open-source window managers are all ripoffs of either Windows, MacOS, NeXTstep, or the various Motif-based WMs. Even GNU EMACS is just a copy, though I admit it is much superior to the original.

    Open-source isn't about innovation. Open-source is about stealing the ideas from real software and making your own lame version, in the name of "freedom".

    The only real open-source software that contributes new ideas rather than just leech off of old ones is the stuff produced by the various Apache projects, and they're only so high quality because of the constant, forced infusion of IP from Sun, IBM, Microsoft (yes! even Microsoft!), and various Internet standards committees.

    As has been proven over and over again, "writing open source software for the community! we are so l337 lololol!!!@!" is not a viable business model. And without a clearly defined business interest, open-source projects will continue to be poorly managed and without conceptual integrity. You end up with "software" like the Linux kernel, which I believe does not even have native support for RAM.

    The only useful thing to come out of the Open-Source/Free Software movement will be sociological studies regarding "large groups blissfully unaware of their own stupidity". Some good medical research may be produced as well, because if we can manage to destroy the GPL, we will have gained valuable insight into fighting other polymorphic viral infections with high rates of communicability, such as HIV.

    This hand-crafted piece of flamebait was brought to you be The_Messenger!

    --

  • > People could do darn near anything to Civ2.

    Except program a decent AI. I'd give the world if they'd expose the programming interface so that 3rd party AIs could be coded. Quake did this, and the resulting robots were so good that they changed the nature of the game. Civ would be a much easier programming challenge than games like Quake since it is turn-based instead of real-time. This is the simplest way to improve the AI; let the community do all the hard work.

    I think everyone would agree that the most important, yet the most difficult, improvement required in Civ III is better AI. Even if nothing else changed, most of us would purchase the upgrade if we could finally meet oponents who beat the pants off us and didn't do so by cheating left, right and center.
    --

  • ...as soon as it's ported to the Mac. :) This shouldn't be a major problem, as the other incarnations have come across to the Mac, although sometimes there's a painfully long delay.

    I haven't played Civ 2 in a while, though I am quite fond of it. I've been spending a lot more time recently with Alpha Centauri. Although there are some problems with it, I love the unit customization, as well as the broader opportunities available with the style of government.

    One thing that I'd love to see implemented in SMAC 2 or Civ 4 or whatever is an actual spherical world map. Currently the map is a cylinder; it would be nice if you could make proper use of the poles as well as having them availble as flyover routes. Also, when are we going to have a decent air unit for carrying troops? You can make one in SMAC that will carry one troop unit, but that's generally not worth the trouble. I'm looking for something like the C-141 Starlifter. Granted, you're going to have to have a decent airport on the destination side, but you'd think in the future there'd be another option besides cargo ships.

    OK, the rant is over. Basically, if it's an actual Sid Meier product, I'm going to be first in line to pick it up. :)

  • This topic is old now, but there are two reasons why I keep a dual boot system with Win 95 and Linux. One is Civ2...the most awesome game ever, and two is publishing software, such as Print Master. I bought Civ CTP...but, honestly, it sucks, I chucked it after 30 minutes or so. Civ 2 original, Civ 2 MPG, and Civ 2 Test Of Time...I've bought them all..and still play them all. I bought CTP because I enjoy Linux and want a game that I can play regularly for a break from other things I use my computer for. I also have tried Free Civ...but though it has progressed well, it just doesn't draw you into the game as the commercial product. They placed sound as one of their future goals but to not hear the destruction of your or your opponents units leaves something sorely missing from the game. The other reason I keep Windows plaguing my computer is publishing software. For example, Print Master is one of the easiest and effective programs to make Labels, Flyers, Web Pages, etc for a small business. No muss, no fuss, and only costs $40 or so. I have searched in vain for a similar Linux product that ties all publishing needs into on neat product.
  • I recently read a history book called 'The Byzantine Commonwealth' which basically encompass the whole idea of linking countries together through culture.

    Basically the Byzantines suceeded where the Western Roman Empire failed: by disseminating Greek-Orthodox cultures through the nomadic tribes around them and playing them off one against another, in due time a whole coterie of nations linked to Byzantium by culture and religion buffer them from outside threats.

    Granted their empire finally collapsed, but it achieved what Hitler's Third Reich did not: cultural hegemony over Eastern Europe and lasting a thousand years.

    Not that I find Hitler's regime agreeable in any way, just as a contrasting example

  • Yes, to put credits where it's due the Fourth Crusade behaved much worse when they occupied Constantinople. Kind of like the Nanking Massacre of the mediaeval times...

    And the Crusaders at that time could not stomach facing an enemy such as Saladin that they had to invent the tale that he was raised among Christian knights too (he was Kurdish).

  • homeworld.

    i was seriously addicted to both civ2, ac and command and conquer. all the sequals to c&c sucked though. they just flogged the dead horse. to death all over again.

    homeworld is an amazing and original game. if you like strategy games, i suggest you take a look.

    -------

  • I'm surprised that you admit to being a programmer for CTP; it was bad. I bought it, played it for twenty minutes, then put it back in the box and hid it. I was too ashamed to even take it back to the store. "Phalanxes with Hypnosis powers causing sleepy pilots to crash jets" indeed.
  • by Isldeur (125133)
    You know, I got into Call To Power when I got it for linux, but found one big weakness with the game. Namely, it turned simply into a headache against the computer as the game progressed.

    Either the computer was a roaming edget, or it built cities to the point that it's science and factories were far too quickly progressive. I just couldn't keep up because I couldn't effectively manage the equivalent number of cities...
  • by Gogl (125883) on Saturday May 19, 2001 @12:30PM (#211650) Journal
    At the risk of sounding nasty, did you read the article? It pointed out a lot of nice enhancements, such as the development of culture, making diplomacy (and war) more complex, and allowing trade to be more all-encompassing. Also, one feature that I'm looking forward a lot to is now you have to have the correct resources to build stuff. It gave the example that you need iron to build the unit of "swordsmen", and if one player has a monopoly on iron then only they can build swordsmen. Much more accurate to real-life, as well as begging for all sorts of neato strategerie.

    As for Civ 1 and Civ 2, sure the graphics got niftier in Civ 2, but in my mind the huge advance was the customizability. Civ 2 has sooooo muuucchh replay value, it's truly disgusting. I never ever play a straight game anymore, but every month or so I still go back to that game and either download a scenario I haven't played yet or just start a new one from a new side or using a new modpack. There are literally millions of ways to play Civ 2, or you can always just create your OWN. Yes Civ 1 had a little bit of this, but not anywhere near the online community or freely downloadable professionally done scenarios that Civ 2 has. I think that when Civ 3 comes out it's gonna be a helluva game....
  • It not about what more you can get out of a game like Civilization, it's about what more you can put in.

    Anyone know if Sid Meyer added Corporatism as a form of government? Believe me, it exists, we (as in society as a whole) just haven't gotten the sleep out of our eyes to see it yet.

    --

  • by Gorobei (127755) on Saturday May 19, 2001 @08:41AM (#211652)
    Sid has the license (to use the Civ name,) patents (limited time monopolies on inventions,) have nothing to do with it!

    C'mon /., half the articles are about copyright vs trademark vs patent. Try to at least get this right!

  • From the FAQ on their homepage:

    Are there any plans for Civilization III to be made for the Mac, Linux or other gaming platforms?
    The publisher, Hasbro Interactive, makes decisions regarding ports to other platforms. Since this is a major release, you'll most likely see ports to other platforms, but there are no commitments yet. We'll keep you posted.

    I'd say let's start an action to convince them that they absolutely must make a Linux version of it.

  • When are Linux/Open Source going to start producing some ORIGINAL games? Sourceforge is chocka with attempts to recreate games like Starcraft and even Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures. Pingus & Freeciv are viewed as great achievements. IMO, what we need from the open source/free software/linux games community are: (a) New ideas (b) Versatile and powerful games libraries. I'd rather see a useful and generic isometric engine than a clone of Starcraft. Clones of Starcraft (and Baldur's Gate and Diablo II) would undoubtedly follow, but some original games might too...
  • I've always loved playing Civ II on my Mac. AWESOME game. I love being a President.

    Anyway, I thought I bought Civilization III. I couldn't believe it was out! I played it.. and man did it suck. It was annoying. Unintuitive. The graphics seemed a lot bigger, too.

    Was I actually playing Civ I? I believe it was called Call to Power.. but maybe not.

    I thought to myself, "Man is this a step backwards from Civ II."

    WAS it literally a step backwards, in that it was the previous version?!

    I wonder if I should post anonymously, since I feel like an idiot. :-)

    (btw, I returned the game the same day, which is why I can't check... hehe.. but really, it LOOKED like a newer game... maybe just a re-designed box?)
  • M has their own civ-like game, Age of Empires, I don't think they will be buying the rights to CivIII anytime soon. It would be easier for them to just copy it at this point.

    ---
  • I basically quit playing Civ I because the AI cheats were so bad. (Spearchucker somehow blows up my bomber, next turn Zulus have mysteriously gained a 1000 years of tech and constructed a bomber themselves.)

    From what I've read, CivII and Alpha Centuri weren't much better despite the 100 fold increase in computational power. Not that I really have time for this shit anymore.
  • Civ I was the first computer game i played. for some reason the copy of the game i had crashed whenever a city was captured though, so i obviously was a rather peaceful player, a strategy, try as i might, i never have been able to shake. maybe Ill play as Gengis Kahn for Civ III to work on it.
  • Did you even read the preview? The new culture and trade stuff that they are adding looks cool. And one can always make the AI smarter.

    However, even if all they did was take Civilization II or Alpha Centauri and give it a really pretty interface and fix the bugs that would be enough. They are such great games.
  • I have to disagree. The publisher of the game I don't think makes much difference. Alpha Centauri was really cool (not very pretty, however), but I prefer the historical setting so I'm really excited by Civ3. Of course, Civilization Call to Power was really bad because of the lack of Sid Mier, probably.
  • The idea that controlling a single square of the board makes it impossible for anyone else in the world to, say, mine iron, is frankly silly. Maybe I just misunderstod the review.

    I think/hope you misunderstood - I assume there are multiple squares for each type of resource, just as in the real world. Some regions have oil, some don't.

  • Complete opposite for me. But then, I'm a history & current events buff, I love messing around with different variations of the earth maps. Alpha Centauri was boring to me because it didn't have that same connection to the real world.

  • If their booth bunnies were poor quality, it improves my hopes for the game. Companies which spend lots of effort on flashy marketing typically do so because they don't believe in their products. I'd rather they spend their budget on coding and testing.

  • I first got hooked on the whole Civ series with Colonization, back in 1994. I still play it to this day. When Civ2 came out, it took an entire summer from me (anyone else build a 200mil+ civ on Deity)? As with Col, I still play it today.

    The real question is, does Civ3 or any other game have that kind of staying power these days? Alpha Centauri was unquestionably a fine technical achievement, but who still plays it now? Also, with the advances in gaming design, will Civ3 be as customizable as Civ2. People could do darn near anything to Civ2. Just some thoughts.


  • Since the FAQ says it's up to the distributors, wouldn't they be the ones to ask? It's interesting they say that actually, it means that they are not going to do any ports themselves. It'll be up to someone like Loki to do the work should Hasbro decide to port it to Linux.
  • What if....

    Uncomfortable silence...

    What if the Civilization world becomes so realistic that you can't tell it apart from the real world?
  • Wow, anything?!?

    I can think of a few people who could use a good deep-fat frying.

    - Ando
    You are the weakest link, goodbye.
  • I ~love~ Alpha Centauri... I've loved Civilisation ever since I got the original version for my 68K Mac... I'd used all the newer Civs, but although I liked the improvements, I didn't feel the need to upgrade... Alpha Centauri on the other hand opened up a lot more story lines and thought processes... the only improvement I feel they could make with that, is having a technology chart inside the manual as well as on the poster.

  • or rather - its about time to integrate the linux world into civilization!
  • I don't think that's quite true. Yes, it is substantially the same game, but I think the 'culture' concept and the changes to the way resources and happiness work are sufficient differences to make me buy the game. I have to say I was a little disappointed when I bought Civ2, probably because it was *just* the graphics that had changed. I thought the 3D map made it more difficult to see what was going on than in the original Civ.
  • by michaelo (224201)
    What about a multiplayer version of colonization? THIS was the best game ever written..
  • just about everything will be tweaked to make it better than the previous versions.
    I'm not so sure I like the Strategic Resources thing. The idea that controlling a single square of the board makes it impossible for anyone else in the world to, say, mine iron, is frankly silly. Maybe I just misunderstod the review.

    The bit about Culture needs some more explaining. I always assumed that the elimination of all Happiness-producing improvements when I conquer a rival city was a good approximation of them not having the same culture. But after a few generations have passed, and we've built temples to our god(s), and Colosseums to play our sports..., all of those people should be assimilated into the culture reasonably well.

  • by hillct (230132)
    That was a vary good and detailed review. Definately worth a read.

    It's Great to see this game series back on track.

    Keep up the good work Sid!


    --
  • Yes, I read the article, but even if culture seems to be an nice addition, do you really think that this will change the game ?
    I think it will only change very little. Many Civ I and II players will simply use their old strategies and it will work, because Sid Maier doesn't want to disappoint his old time civ I/II fans. I think that is the problem with every Civilization sequel: Because it has the same name, many people demand that it will play in the same way. Even if Civilization III seems to be a bit better on this point then Civilization II, I think Sid Maier isn't brave enough to really change it, and this leads to another point:
    The rules of Civilization are getting more and more complex, with every new version there are some additions but nearly always nothing is left out that was in an old version. To me much of the fascination is coming from the simplicity of rules. The rules were very simple in Civ I nevertheless you got into very complex situations. If you got a too complex ruleset with too many switches and things you must care about, the game gets unplayable. I think if Civilization fans sees this additions, he thinks: "nice I could now do this and this and ..." But after a few rounds that he tries to use this extras to their full extend he will use his old strategies because the game will get much more fluent with them.
    Now to the point of the online community and the customizability: I think this comes only from the point were Civ 1 was released, Internet wasn't as dense population as it now and not so many people are playing pc games as today.
    Civilization III will sure be a game that could be a lot of fun, but do you really think, playing a few hours of Civilization III will be more fun than playing a few hours of Civilization I or II or Colonization ?
  • by tempmpi (233132) on Saturday May 19, 2001 @09:01AM (#211675)
    The basic principles of Civilization are always the same. Playing Civilization III will be the same thing as playing Civilization II or I. The only thing that does really differ is the graphic. Civilization is like chess: The game is always the same, no matter what type of chessboard you are using.
    Ok, there are always some little changes and new technologies, but in the end, this is only a marketing gadget.
    For me, freeciv [freeciv.org] is completly ok and a don't know why I should speed money on Civilization III. The graphic of freeciv also gets improved all the time, and if want some finetunning of the basic rules you could also do it yourself.
  • Ah god damn it, got the link wrong :( Here [europa-universalis.com]
  • by IdentityCrisis (235840) on Saturday May 19, 2001 @09:14AM (#211677)
    For all of those who spent so much time on civ.. And especially historical games freaks you might want to check Europa Universalis [europa-univseralis.com] The time period of the game is 1492-1792 (The age of discovery until the period just before the Napoleonic wars)

    The game involves the entire world with many countries, which are all playable through a simple editing of a text file) military, navy, exploration, colonization, diplomacy.

    The most interesting feature is that it's real time.. I hate RTS games.. despise them. but this is different, besides having a pause to issue some orders if you are too overwelmed, you can change speed settings, Real time doesn't harm the game but just makes it much more fun for multiplayer games.
    IMHO the true heir for civ/civ2/colonization.
  • ...please let this version have a complete keyboard interface! Or a certificate for free repetitive strain injury surgery (I have the graphics professional's version, worn out mouse arm). How many thousands of clicks does the average Civ game entail, especially if you're not willing to let your auto-engineers wander around on brain-dead pork barrel projects?

    With games as addictive as this series, simple keyboard--or better yet command line--control should be in the product requirements from the beginning. Maybe this is like arguing that methamphetamines should come in sugar-coated, easy-to-swallow caplets shaped like your favorite cartoon characters, but there's a certain responsibility to the customer, damn it!
  • ...then I'm all for it. I can't wait.
  • Well, wasn't the creation of civilization multi-faceted and complex? If so, I'd be surprised if a virtual depiction of the process could be created in only 2 or 3 releases.

    Play on!
  • I know what it says in the FAQ, but the statement that it may be ported is not enough for me and I figured that the best people to email and ask for this would be the developers. I figure that because, at least in the linux world, the developers develop the software. :)

    (Note: just making my point clear, do not take this as an attack)
  • I say that all the /.'s should go to www.firaxis.com/civ3/ and click on the "Ask the Civ Team" link and send an email to

    askthecivteam@firaxis.com

    and ask them to dual release Civ III on windows and linux.

    It is about time to bring Civilization to the Linux World.

  • I still play Alpha Centauri. I'm involved in an epic play-by-email game which has recently entered its third year. And every now and then I fire up a single player game.

    The earth setting of Civ 2 is nice, but the inane diplomacy and the tedious micromanagement really put me off after the first couple of years.

    Can't wait for Civ 3 though. Trade and diplomacy, great! But I'll miss the creepy SF setting of SMAC.

  • Sorry to nitpick but CTP is not Sid's creation. It was the bastardisation that Activision created when they managed to magically acquire the rights to the title as a result of a dubious lawsuit. CivIII will be the real sequel.
  • Civilization: Call To Power is a different game based on the same principles. If you tried playing it after Civilization II style assumptions, then I don't doubt it would suck :-)

    Personally I like it, but I keep switching between it and Freeciv - they're more different in gameplay than in quality, IMHO.

  • Probably not for much longer.

    Hasbro (The owners of Microprose) have this nasty habit of sueing their competition, even develoeprs of cheap/free games.

    And if the orignal post is correct and there is a patent involved here (as opposed to a trademark, whih I expect is the case), then you shouldn't be suprised if Hasbro pull the same trick they did last year when they sued anyone developing a clone of an Atari title.
  • The original Civilization was my very first computer game. Like a lot of people, I lost a couple months of my childhood on that game. I still think it is the best computer game I've ever played. It would have been near perfection had the world been about 1000 times larger and customizable, with 20 or so more tribes. Throw multi-player in there also. Of course back in 1991 most computers had somewhere on the order of 2 MB RAM, which made those features difficult to achieve.

    I taught myself how to program the C language trying to hack the Civilization game save files -- I got pretty far into hacking those things. I could put any military unit anywhere on the map at anytime. Unfortunately the game had a bug where you'd get some whacked terrain squares above north america after about 2100 AD, and that would eventually cause whacked-out barbarians and the game to freeze up. Or else I'd have never stopped playing that game.
  • They had a pretty big preview in Computer Gaming World, I didn't check it out to much in the bookstore but it looked pretty big.
  • however, without the original Microprose, Alpha Centauri was lacking. I really hope Sid has gotten everything together and released one hell of a Civ III. I just love conquering all the races with nukes :oD
  • ...another good example of something that was way overdone. When something really revolutionary comes out on that theme, I'll buy it.
    43rd Law of Computing:
  • How much more can you get out of a game like Civilisation? Sure, the concept is a corker, and previous ones were good, but what more can be offered?

    43rd Law of Computing:
  • I Thoght that civ:ctp == civ III; I seem to be wrong! first time for everything I guess.
  • I remember Colonization, I almost failed my degree due to that addiction... Does anybody know if it's coming out for OS/2? What am I on about, I don't even have OS/2... I don't even have Windows any more - guess I'm well fecked then

To err is human -- to blame it on a computer is even more so.

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