XBox Netplay Already

ElectusUnum writes "Well, it's been a little while since the XBox was released and people are already playing online! The folks at xboxgw.com have written a program to create an ethernet bridge between xbox's over the net, fooling the xbox's into thinking they're on a LAN. 1v1 seems to create no major lag and reports have come in like this one that claim up to four xbox's work fine. It seems a DSL connection is preferred for hosting the server." I want an X-Box so bad, or as I would call it, a DOA3-Box.

When will MS' netplay be up?

[anotherone]

I mean, this is cool and all if you want to play with someone you know across the country or something, but it's not really that useful until there are actual servers up with gamespy type software. I mean, you can only fight the same people so many times, you know?

Hobbyist Community

[r.suzuka]

Several days ago I posted a note about a friend of mine who got in trouble with Sony after posting home programming tools to the Internet. To revise my previous post, I believe it was a tool that allowed someone to write a PlayStation boot sector on a CD. My friend used it for writing his own programs to run on a PlayStation but perhaps Sony was understandably concerned it might lead to the copying of their games.

I just want to say how fascinating I find this culture of console hacking and programming. Here is Japan in the home of the console, I wish we had a more active community, but it does not seem to be so. I am not sure why not, especially since consoles are nearly uniform in popularity among all age groups and such.

My only fear is for these programmers. Microsoft is well know for its business practices, and I worry that they will disaprove of this Xbox net-play project. I do not see how this will hurt them but I still think they will not like it. Too bad since it will only make their console more popular.

R. Suzuka

What about PC's..

[gizmoiscariot]

Now the trick would be to get it so that when some of these games are ported to Windows, to have them able to play against eachother across the internet. That would be the real gem in the Xbox and online gaming. I wonder if this would be even possible due to the obviously differences in the controls and the games themselves, but it would still be worth a try to get it to work.

Re:Microsoft can't be to happy about this...

[cornflux]

While it's true that developers can do whatever they want, I doubt Microsoft would let them use the system however they want (after all, do you think Sony would be very happy if someone released a 'game' that let people pirate PS2 games easily?)

But, this isn't really about pirating games, is it?

Anyway, maybe MS will use this, and other types of "hacks," as a sort of pseudo-loss leader?

I can see a scenario like this: MS sells a decently hackable (not just hardware, as we're finding out) system which attracts a significant interest in the above average consumer. (I think we can agree that those people are sometimes the ones that drive new features, technology, etc.) So, then, MS has gotten a good idea of what the above average user wants/needs and can then sell a new version that incorporates "the best" of those.

I'm sure some will dismiss my scenario. (Maybe they'd prefer the word scheme?)

Well, regardless, I think MS is very aware of what's going on and is looking forward to the next xbox.

I wonder.

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

How many game studios are being told that, if they want the SDK's early, or even at all, that they must sign exclusivity contracts with M$ ? My prediction for sure, is this. No game released for Xbox will ever be released for linux. My 80% sure prediction is this... no game released for Xbox will be released for ANYTHING else.

Sega is gone. It's possible Nintendo is hurting. How far can they be pushed, before they have to give up too? Even Sony might have to pull out, if M$ behaves as I've suggested. Bingo. Video Game Industry Monopoly.

But... it gets worse. The powers that be have always HATED people building their own computers, upgrading them. Here is a viable PC platform, that is almost completely sealed. Even a bigger hard drive might be impossible for a user to install, if M$ wants to really cheat. If they release this as a home pc, or even business... and Office XP2 is released for it, what then? "People buy the Xbox, it's the end to all those hardware conflicts, software too!". Compaq(HP?), Dell, Gateway... their days are numbered.
Bingo. PC Industry Monopoly.

Won't affect you, you say? "I'll always buy my own, and build as I chooose!". Noble thoughts. But the fact is, the prices you pay for hardware are in part subsidized by the fact that everyone else is doing the same. People like you and I might be left paying prices similar to those that corporate enterprise purchasers are paying, since they will be the only other market that won't be able to use a sealed system like Xbox. The future looks grim, my friend.

OH THE IRONY!

[gatesh8r]

This can be taken two ways: 1) Linux screws over M$'s plans for the future, or 2) The Linux community is going to help capitalize on M$'s plans to move into the game community. This post may seem a little redundant, but I'll make some points here that I haven't seen scrolling through previous comments:

* The gateway may not be the best thing to see for those that would rather see the X-Box go away. This only strengthens its position for anyone with broadband; immediately jumping into the online world where Sega and possibly Sony have already entered, and Nintendo is lagging behind... I haven't heard about its broadband, but Nintendo best have something.

* This little Linux program should allow for more than JUST X-Box -- especially if other services out there can too be taken away and allow for more of a P2P gaming experience. No middle man for Phantasy Star Online, for example. I feel if it gets more fanfare it'll spark more projects to be done for other consoles, which is totally a Good Thing(TM).

* Misc. points: It would as been said before spark a Game Spy-ish service, but I would not be suprised of Game Spy themselves took intrest in tapping into this market for consoles if we got more of a P2P way of finding games. I know I would have some intrest along with my brother and our PS2's to be able to find opponents in say, Tekken Tag that we have sitting there collecting dust because we've beat all our friends in it.

Oh well, in the end Billy G. may get shafted out of another subcription service :-D

Re:Hobbyist Community

[JoeShmoe]

So where is the mirror of this program your friend wrote? It sounds very interesting. Even if I'm only able to get Pong ported over to the PSX hardware that sounds pretty darn cool.

Typical Sony overreaction. There are plenty of different boot loaders (CDs that you boot, then swap out for a CD-R copy of a game) and plenty of mod chips (chips you solder onto your PSX board to force it to ignore PS-specific boot sector). If anyone is interested in playing pirated games they are already doing in. Buy a mod chip for $30 bucks and then rent all the PSX games you can from Blockbuster, copy them, and presto instant game collection. So if Sony things this little program is going to lead to any more game copying than already exists they are clueless beyond belief. More likely they are afraid people will be able to write quality games WITHOUT having to pay the Sony tax to become an official PSX licensee.

Meanwhile this tool could be very useful for this like porting MAME over to the PSX (would be nifty for the PS1 to make a portable MAME machine) and as you put it, writing your own games.

So, please tell me your friend passed the tool around a bit before Sony shut him down? What was the file name so we can know to keep an eye out should it just "happen" to appear on Kazaa/eDonkey/LimeWire/etc (maybe, oh, sometime this week)?

- JoeShmoe

Re:who gives a shit

[blixel]

consoles were never meant for online gaming. It just doesn't make sense.

Well here's my 2 cents.

Consoles are far more convenient and more simple than a computer. How are they more convenient? They are small, light, and very portable. How are they more simple? Plug in a cartridge or put in your CD, press the power button and you're done. No installation required. I'm not suggesting that it's difficult to install a game, at least it isn't for most people, but not doing something is always easier than doing something.

Personally I think it would be great to have the simplicity of a console and the power, graphical quality, and networking capabilities of a PC all combined into one small, light weight, and portable machine.

I love getting together with friends for a weekend of LAN gaming [freedomware.org] at someones house, but I hate lugging my computer over there. On the other hand, if I had a console system like the GameCube (6x6x4.3 inches), it certainly would make LAN gaming a lot easier. A console and an LCD panel would be very portable.

Furthermore, if games were no longer any kind of a priority for my Desktop PC, I could save a fortune on PC parts. You wouldn't need to spend $350 for a ti500 GeForce3 video card. A $29 8MB AGP card would be fine for most people who just need to display 1280x1024 at 85Hz or less on a 19" monitor. Of course if you have other reasons for needing 3D power, like CAD, then this wouldn't be a factor for you. I also wouldn't be as quick about upgrading the rest of my PC parts if games weren't a factor. Games require more computing power than any other software for the most part.

Bottom line for me - I'm not willing to give up the awesome networking ability of PC gaming so until consoles can match the ability of PC's in that respect, I will continue to play games on the PC. But I would have no reservations at all about dropping PC gaming in favor of consoles when that day comes. So I think it's cool to see a project like this even if it is for the XBox.

I think you are right to say that "consoles were never meant for online gaming"... That's true in terms of all past consoles... But moving forward, I think consoles will be meant for online gaming and IMHO, it does make sense.

Let the flame begin.

Inventive use of the apostrophe.

[Anonymous Coward]

Clever idea, good story, I especially liked the inventive use of the apostrophe.

"up to four xbox's"

Let bob the angry flower tell it:
http://angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif [angryflower.com]

XBOX vs. *

[Brat Food]

This program is a godsend. I have a feeling MS wont have a netplay service set up for some time, and now i can play with my friends full screen w/o having to drag TVs and such over to one persons house. The XBOX may have 4 controller ports, but playing 4 to a screen really doesnt compare to haveing a screen to yourself. Console NET gaming will take off. SEGA made huge headway in to this arena, and it will only get more popular. XBox is going to be hacked left and right, and i cant wait =)

And to gaming bigots - I am an avid collector of consoles, and have a PC and MAC for gaming as well, and what ticks me off more then anything is people who have some blind attachment to one way of gaming, usually because its what they blew 300 bucks on. Heres the point, for all those who still dont get it:

ITS ABOUT THE GAMES STUPID

Finally, about seeing Xbox games directly playable on PC... its going to be a while if ever. Fist reason is MS wont want to cannibalize their own market(although a lot of games will be ports, the strength will be original titles, and XBox first titles, to drive sales). The second is a technical hurdle: XBox on the surface may look just like a PC with a gForce3, but, it has one very important advantage: the programmers have ONE target spec to reach the whole audiance. This has always been a console advantage from a game making standpoint. So while on paper its looks like less then a high end pc, in then end you have better looking games because programmers write games to take full advantage of what resources are available, the target output is a TV (relativly low resolution and a constant), and no huge OS overhead.

Re:Xbox OS?

[Namarrgon]

It's not a PC. The CPU might use a PIII and the OS might be based on Win2k, but it isn't Win2k, even the DirectX8 being is significantly different, and the system architecture is quite different to a PC.

All software runs in kernel mode, unified memory means the CPU and GPU get equal access to textures & vertex data, a second vertex pipe & some other fancy texture stuff on the GPU, specialised controllers - none of that exists in the PC space, and would all have to be emulated.

Of course, it'll be much easier to port an Xbox game to Windows & vice versa, compared to a PS2, but it's still far too different to just run.

Re:Microsoft can't be to happy about this...

[ez76]

My guess is that Microsoft will allow this and maybe even encourage it. All to sell as many X-Boxes as possible.

I am guessing not. They will want to nip this in the bud (see next comment). Only part of the money in X-Box is in up-front unit sales. They are no doubt counting on a lot of cash from recurring revenue (i.e. online service subscriptions).

Then in the next version of the X-Box or X-Box version 3 they will crack down and lock the system down.

They stand to lose a lot of goodwill if they wait too long. By that point, there will be huge communities, web sites, etc. rallied around this neat little hack. Maybe they could figure out a compromise (lock out only new games) but my guess is it won't take two generations of machines for this to happen.

Re:Xbox OS?

[vrmlknight]

"...unified memory means the CPU and GPU get equal access to textures & vertex data..."

This is where AGP comes in it was originally designed so the GPU can access system RAM I don't know how hard it would be it implement due to no one using AGP this way and as for running in kernel mode I know enough to BS about how to get around that...

"specialised controllers"

They are USB but w/ a different connector and I'm sure someone could figure out how to use a CompUSA USB controller and remap the buttons or rewire the connector to a USB connector... I'm not saying I know how to do this but theirs a lot of people out their and I haven't seen anything talking about running xbox games on a regular win2k box or something similar