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Games Entertainment

Probing the Guts Of the Consoles 355

Posted by CmdrTaco from the probe-me-more-baby dept.
Max Entropy writes "Finally, an in-depth article of the technologies within the GameCube, PS2, and Xbox. The article covers architectures, processor/memory silicon, I/O, expandability, and storage among a host of other topics." If you are wondering what makes each system distinctive (Besides the fact that one has about a hundred times as many games, one overheats, and another has Luigi) this might be worth a read.
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Probing the Guts Of the Consoles More

Probing the Guts Of the Consoles

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  • One thing they left out (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 29, 2001 @04:29PM (#2763048)
    is that the Xbox also has an X-10 compatible home automation controller built into the power supply. If you notice, a small serial data cable leads from the motherboard to an area of the supply (the part of the supply farthest from the large capacitors). No software is known to control this yet, though. IIRC the IC that they used will only send signals, not receive them.
    • So let me get this straight: My game console is going to be able to control my lights and whatever else is X-10 connected.

      Why?

      Don't get me wrong, I'm a toy-freak, but I'm having trouble thinking up uses for it: Alter the lighting to suit the game mood? Turn on the coffee maker when game-play lags? Signal the robot to get me another bheer? If you lose the next level, the goldfish loses life-support? Control those 22,000V chair electrodes for realistic game play?

      It's cool, but I don't see what problem it's supposed to solve. (And I'd have to think twice before buying an X-10 module after those damned camera ads. How's that for negative advertising!)

      • Don't get me wrong, I'm a toy-freak, but I'm having trouble thinking up uses for it: Alter the lighting to suit the game mood?

        Though the rest of your suggestions are obviously silly, the first one you mention may not be all that bad of an idea...

        • Though the rest of your suggestions are obviously silly, the first one you mention may not be all that bad of an idea...

          Sure, and the air-conditioner/heat could be hooked up too for that total gaming experience. But it's a "once funny" to quote Heinlein. (I am not karma whoring, I hit 50 a while ago. At least on Pyroto Mountain you could get to 500, and you could do more than mod someone down!) After the first time the lights dim, the only thrill will be dragging victim, er, friends in to see it. ("Oo ah eh, say is that the time?")

          I get better silly toy use out of my RS232 to speech card sitting in a gutted 486 (to provide power) and a cron daemon as a talking clock. ("Bong! Bong! The time is two o'clock.")

      • Re:Cool .. I think .. (Score:2, Informative)

        by IronChef ( 164482 )
        And I'd have to think twice before buying an X-10 module after those damned camera ads.

        X-10 the company has nothing to do with X-10 the home automation protocol. Even IBM makes X-10 equipment.

        For a non-obnoxious place to get X-10 gear, try Smarthome [smarthome.com].
        • Very true! And I'd think about alternative sources before buying an X-10 module from X-10. (Or build one, I must have plans in some back issue of Ciarcia's Circuit Cellar.)

          But I'm still strapped for ideas on what to use a game console for in controlling X-10 modules.

          Maybe if you could control your neighbor's modules? "Eyup, the lights are flashing, the sprinkler's on, and goldie just turned tits-up in her tank. I guess Bob's on the final level." "I'll git the shotgun."

        • Re:Cool .. I think .. (Score:2, Informative)

          by adolf ( 21054 )
          IBM sold their X10 rights awhile ago, and have since left the game. Even while they were still playing, it was the -same stuff- as X10 Corporation sold, rebranded IBM. Differences? The IBM-branded products were sometimes cheaper, and might've had different software.

          Same thing with RCA's X10 stuff, RadioShack's X10 stuff, Magnavox's X10 stuff, and, well, almost everything X10 except the hideously expensive Leviton X10 stuff and a few other high-end, high-dollar items.

          X10 Corp has almost -everything- to do with X10 the home automation protocol.

          -
    • Multiplayer over X-10 would be too slow, except as a joke. You could, though, use it to make two Xboxen on the same power transformer vaguely aware of each other.

      The XBox seems unsuitable for general home control, since it can't do home control and run a game at the same time. So that's out.

      A "Parental Interrupt" button would be a cute feature. Sell an X10 sender with a button on it as an accessory. When Mom pushes a button, it pauses any currently playing games and displays "Dinner", or some such message. But support for this would have to be in disks already distributed, so it's too late.

      It's hard to do much with X10 blind, because the control modules are pure receivers; you can't query them. You could send "All Lights On" or "All Lights Off" to all 256 house codes, but that's about it.

      Are you sure the XBox supports only X10, and not CEBus, LonWorks, or something else more advanced?

  • Consoles the future? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by euroderf ( 47 )
    Am I the only one who has noticed that the remit of consoles increases year on year? At first they were simple gaming machines, now they focus on email, broadband, DVD playing, web browsing, etc etc.

    With MS's .NET initiative, one can't help but wonder if the concept of a 'home computer' will become entirely redundant. After all, the fact is that .NET will enable traditional tasks performed by applications such as MS Word, Excel etc to be done entirely over the web. With the rise of consoles, this will render the home computer redundant in time.

    Another advantage is that consoles are so easy.

    I mean, I find Windows and Mac OS X very complicated and difficult to use - I am from a pre-computer generation, and have watched with a little bemusement as these glorified typewriters conquer all.

    They are dividing society into two classes, the Digirati, who can understand Computers running super complicated, unintuitive OS's like OS X and Windows, and the disposessed, who just don't understand and never will.

    Consoles, by extending their grasp, may remove this knowledge gap by providing a wonderfully simple, hermetically sealed system that can be easily used by everyone, including your granny, and me!

    I will welcome the day, I think, I don't like the idea of supercomplex computers running increasingly difficult OS's taking over all simple tasks and dispossessing those with better things to do than understand the impossible complexities of Internet Explorer and Microsoft Word.

    I look to Sony, MS and Nintendo to provide a democratic and egalitarean new computing future for all, in which everyone can share.

    • Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Saturday December 29, 2001 @04:54PM (#2763123)
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
      • Did you even look at his website? That's some fucking scary right wing shit. I can't even believe he brings himself to post here. Must be infatuated with his low UID.
        • and it scared the hell out of me.

          I've never seen such a revisionist and clueless pile of drivel in my life.

          I have to apologize to euroderf, if not for any other reason than the fact that he has his own opinion and is welcome to it. I however do not agree with him.

          Here are some excerpts from the website and it's articles - not verbatim:
          Microsoft created object oriented programming.
          Microsoft concieved a workable internet when no one else could.
          Microsoft has the common man at the core of it's heart.
          All linux users are hackers and zealots.
          All linux users hate Microsoft because they charge for software.
          Windows95 was written in Visual Basic.
          Microsoft is the saviour of the common man when it comes to computers. Trust them(tm)
          etc... etc... etc... ad infinitum.

          What I want to know is if he ACTUALLY believes what he writes or is he trying to deliberately misleed Joe Public?
    • "They are dividing society into two classes, the Digirati, who can understand Computers running super complicated, unintuitive OS's like OS X and Windows, and the disposessed, who just don't understand and never will."

      There is no "Digerati" - some sort of elite upper class who automatically understand complicated things (such as computers). This is pure bullshit. All human beings are born with the same basic level of intelligence. The difference is how it is used. Some of us choose to better ourselves, and so we work a little harder and try to learn things. Others ... your so called "dispossed" ... prefer to remain stupid because they are too lazy to put out any effort toward learning.
      • Seriously ... if this were true, that only some sort of elite could really use computers ... why is it that I have seen mildly retarded people (you know, Forrest Gump types) using computers? The division is really between the brave/inquisitive and the fearful/dismissive.
      • There is no "Digerati" - some sort of elite upper class who automatically understand complicated things (such as computers). This is pure bullshit. All human beings are born with the same basic level of intelligence. The difference is how it is used. Some of us choose to better ourselves, and so we work a little harder and try to learn things. Others ... your so called "dispossed" ... prefer to remain stupid because they are too lazy to put out any effort toward learning.

        Yeah and all people are born with the same basic level of beauty and athletic ability. what a crock of shit. Some people are born more intelligent than other, some less. Some are born with a natural talent in certain areas. Engineering, math, art, whatever some people have it and some don't.

        However, all that being said, there is no reason that the "dispossessed" will never understand is also a crock. There is no reason why (nearly) anyone could not learn to use a computer.

    • They are dividing society into two classes, the Digirati, who can understand Computers running super complicated, unintuitive OS's like OS X and Windows, and the disposessed, who just don't understand and never will.

      And the alternative is to remove low cost general purpose computing machinery from the masses, replacing it with specialized harware which will perform only carefully circumscribed tasks? Talk about disempowering! At least with the current setup you can get software to do something other than to play games. And there is at least an opportunity to learn how to more with the boxes.

      I look to Sony, MS and Nintendo to provide a democratic and egalitarean new computing future for all, in which everyone can share.

      Oh yes! And I am sure that they will allow you to do whatever you want with them. Do you really think that they'll let people do "unauthorized programming" for these? Thanks for tuning out and turning off. Have a nice Brave New World, Mr. Gamma. Just be glad you aren't one of those Alphas or Betas who have to work so hard and never have any fun...

      Geez, I never thought I'd see someone on /. that thought that dumbing down the system was a good thing. Now I have seen everything (unless you were trying to troll, in which case, you win).

    • OK, this troll is over. Let's examine it in a bit more detail.

      Am I the only one who has noticed that the remit of consoles increases year on year?

      Nice touch: remit. Note also the "lonely voice in the desert" approach (/. crowd loves the "nobody cares to look at my research" angle).

      At first they were simple gaming machines, now they focus on email, broadband, DVD playing, web browsing, etc etc.
      A bit disappointing. Would have expected mention of <insert controversial technology>. On second thought I figure might have diluted the nostalgy for a "simpler past" that's working here.

      With MS's .NET initiative,
      There it is, the controversial technology.
      one can't help but wonder if the concept of a 'home computer' will become entirely redundant.
      Nice red herring. Troll establishes emotional bond with the grizzled hackers of yore through the use of the quaint 'home computer'.
      After all, the fact is that .NET will enable traditional tasks performed by applications such as MS Word, Excel etc to be done entirely over the web.
      Provocation: "the fact is", "will enable".
      With the rise of consoles, this will render the home computer redundant in time.
      Troll alienates grizzled hackers.
      Another advantage is that consoles are so easy.
      Cue pointless remark by FlightSimFan about how some games will never move to the console. Also set up the atmosphere for confrontation with the anti-ease-of-use crowd.
      I mean, I find Windows and Mac OS X very complicated and difficult to use
      Cue anti-ease-of-use crowd.
      I am from a pre-computer generation, and have watched with a little bemusement as these glorified typewriters conquer all.
      Knowful wink at the humanist and "digital citizen" crowds.
      They are dividing society into two classes, the Digirati
      Cue the Katz/Wired crowd.
      who can understand Computers running super complicated, unintuitive OS's like OS X and Windows, and the disposessed, who just don't understand and never will.
      A clever provocation: no mention of Linux at all! Doesn't seem to be very effective in its apparent goal to ignite a UI war though.
      Consoles, by extending their grasp, may remove this knowledge gap by providing a wonderfully simple, hermetically sealed system that can be easily used by everyone, including your granny, and me!
      "Hermetically sealed" makes a nice appearance. Otherwise not very convincing.
      I will welcome the day, I think, I don't like the idea of supercomplex computers running increasingly difficult OS's taking over all simple tasks and dispossessing those with better things to do than understand the impossible complexities of Internet Explorer and Microsoft Word.
      Boilerplate common sense.
      I look to Sony, MS and Nintendo to provide a democratic and egalitarean new computing future for all, in which everyone can share.
      Disappointing. Too flippant for there to be any venom in this tail. Several loose ends left hanging. Rather pathetic attempt to ensnare the FSF zealots with the "share" there as well.
    • Crap. I thought I turned Jon Katz off.
  • Now I have a little bit of "proof" I can break out when I want to deprecate the PS2. reading the writeup for the Gamecube, I was struck with how innovative the design seemed. Of the three, it seems the most traditional in function and intention, but it achieves that with the usual Nintendo pizazz. It'd be a pity if the Gamecube failed to capture a significant market share.

    • Will you personally buy a game cube?

      If you answer yes to this one you'll be the only one I know who will. Why? The Nintendo64 had such a sorry array of games when compared to the PS1, its a no-brainer to expect the same of their cube.

      I think I represent the average gamer and I want strategy games, fighting games, REALISTIC images, great audio. I want games to move me and scare me. I especially don't want Mario this or Luigi that. Game cube commercials are already touting a new Mario + friends mortal combat style fighting game. I truly think you need to be 11 to get a kick out of that.

      • Re:Game Cube (A little OT and ranty, sorry) (Score:4, Informative)

        by iso ( 87585 ) <slash@warpze[ ]info ['ro.' in gap]> on Saturday December 29, 2001 @05:38PM (#2763212) Homepage
        Wow, I've found quite the opposite. A friend of mine has an N64 and now a Game Cube, and while there's a lot of kiddie games, there's a whole lot of what I'd call "social games." Games that are genuinely fun, with decent graphics, that are best played with at least three or four people.

        These are the games that are actually fun, and aren't the kind that you only play locked up in a dark room all night by yourself. Of course, knowing slashdot, there are probably very few people here who would actually agree that being social is a good thing.

        - j
        • Well, think about this... You're talking about "social" games for 3-4 people. Well, to play with that many people at the same time, you'd have to have someone bring another console and connect 'em. That's fine, but wouldn't you think that the people interested in doing this would already be the kind of people who AREN'T social, or if they are, it's only for a Quake frag-fest? I couldn't imagine a bunch of geeks getting together to play some Mario, Luigi, or Pokemon game together.
          • Youd be suprised how well something like Mariokart works at a low-grade party. A single race is short enough that, if you have more than 4 people, you can rotate out the loser(s), and still be sure that everyone gets a shot at playing. The game is simple to play, and somebody who's never touched it before, or simply had too much to drink, can pick it up and do reasonably well.

            That's not to say that Nintendo has a monopoly on these games, but they do have the most, since four player games never did well on the PSX because the 4-way hardware wasn't standard. I haven't looked much at the new consoles, but the XBox has a decent 4-way party game in Fuzion Frenzy, a game obviously designed with that sole purpose in mind.

            Mind you, if everyone present is going to be a gamer geek, fighting games are a good substitute for the 4-way party game, but they don't provide much entertainment if there will be non-gamers, alcohol or females around.

            To sum it all up, the key traits of good party game are:
            • Shallow learning curve: it's a social gathering, not a contest. Make it easy to pick up and participate w/o being too embarrassed
            • Short turn-around time: Keep people rotating through so that nobody who wants to play has to wait too long and anyone who wants to stop can leave on short notice
            • Simultanious Multiplayer:2 players is OK, 4 is golden; more than 4 would probably have to strugiling to find room in front of and on the TV.

            I think that cuteness (or at least low-violence) is a bonus. GoldenEye and Tekken were OK party games, but Mariokart was a great one.
      • Super Smash Melee is one of the best 4 player games I've ever seen. It entertained several people well over the age of 11 for hours on end. Try it before you trash it.
      • Hahahahaha, that's funny. Well, you see, disregarding all of the truly fun games that are/will be on the gamecube, if you want a game that will scare you then you need look no further than games like Resident Evil or Eternal Darkness. These are both not kiddie games, and both ONLY for the gamecube. On the other hand, if you want to play truly innovative and fun games then Nintendo is always a winner in my book. The comparison between the number of games on the N64 and PS1 isn't the best, as there might have been a lot of PS1 games, but there were also a HUUUGGE number of crappy non-innovative titles.
      • Game cube commercials are already touting a new Mario + friends mortal combat style fighting game. I truly think you need to be 11 to get a kick out of that.

        It looks like you're talking about Super Smash Brothers Melee, which is perhaps the greatest 4-player action game ever created. This game is a blast to play, as I can personally attest, and has gotten universally excellent reviews.

        A good game is a good game, period, whether you wrap the gameplay in Mario Brothers graphics or ultra-realistic motion-capped characters with digitized skin. Apparently you prefer style (realistic images!) over actual gameplay to the point where you'll overlook a true gem of a games!

        I'll agree with you that the N64's library was pathetic compared to the other systems. However, I had to take you to task for overlooking a true gem of a game just becase of cartoony graphics.

        Also, consider this: N64 developers were hampered by having to use rom-based catridges when everyone else was using optical storage. Now, they don't have that restriction. It's too early to tell who's going to have the best games, but don't count Nintendo out yet.

      • Get a clue (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Nerds ( 126684 ) on Saturday December 29, 2001 @09:19PM (#2763649) Homepage
        Will you personally buy a game cube? If you answer yes to this one you'll be the only one I know who will.

        Get out a little more. They've sold a million of the things. By the way, great argument there. My dad can beat up yours.

        I think I represent the average gamer and I want strategy games, fighting games, REALISTIC images, great audio.

        Nah, the average gamer wants The Sims and Pokemon.

        I want games to move me and scare me. I especially don't want Mario this or Luigi that.

        Fair enough, but if you're going to speak for the average gamer, keep in mind that Nintendo sold about a billion dollars worth of software in 2000. Their closest competitor? EA, with under 500 million. Keep in mind that EA publishes games on all platforms and that Nintendo is restricted to their own. And in case you're wondering, those numbers don't include hardware, it's just the games. Doesn't sound like the average gamer is agreeing with you so far.

        Game cube commercials are already touting a new Mario + friends mortal combat style fighting game. I truly think you need to be 11 to get a kick out of that.

        Yeah, you definitely need to be eleven. Like last night, I was playing Smash Brothers with my roommate and two friends and it was so fun that we played for about two hours. Then I remembered that we're all over 24 so we threw that game out. I don't know what Gamespot was thinking when they put it in the top ten console games of the year, because I'm pretty sure their editors are over 11 (although sometimes it's a tough call). Good thing, we stopped playing, though, so we could move on to a game that lets you drive one of these armed cycles [gamespot.com] on some huge courses [ign.com] and blow your friends up.

        But I'll admit that the Gamecube's graphics aren't that great, like that Rogue Leader game. I mean, did they really think anyone would want to play a game with graphics [gamespot.com] like [gamespot.com] this [gamespot.com]?

        And in fighting games, we'll put aside the fact that you're superficial and clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I know Kirby and Pikachu are cute as all get out, but the fighting system in SSB is way more fun than DOA3's. And if that's not enough for you, Soul Calibur 2 [ign.com], successor to the real king of 3D fighters (OK, fine, Virtua Fighter rules, too), will be exclusive to the GameCube when it first arrives.

        Speaking of realism, did you know that the water in Wave Race: Blue Storm, an amazingly addictive racing game with a tight control system, was so good, that Gamespot created a new category in their year end awards for it [gamespot.com]?

        Oh, right, and you want to be scared. So, how about four Resident Evil [ign.com] games and Eternal Darkness [ign.com]? Is that enough blood for you, mister sophisticated mature gaming man?

        I've got a GameCube, a Playstation 2, and a Dreamcast (which, as far as I'm concerned, still has the best catalog of games around), couldn't be happier.
    • Nintendo games as a general rule suck. Sorry it's the truth, not all of them but compare the great PSX games with the great Nintendo games (keep in mind I'm well past 12 years old which seems to be the target for Nintendo). Small list for Nintendo. It doesn't matter how "innovative" the design is, it's the games that matter. If I can play great games on a toaster I'll be happy.

      I shouldn't say the suck, but single player games are pretty meagre for the Nintendo. The multiplayer games are incredible though, I have yet to find a game I can pop in for the PS2 that three or four people can all play and have fun with. Nintendo seems to excel with these.

      Personally I like to have the PS2 so I can be anti-social and play FFX for hours on end, and have the Cube for a bunch of friends sitting around and beating the crap out of each other in Smash Brothers.

  • Some misinformation from the article (Score:5, Informative)

    by Gath ( 8196 ) on Saturday December 29, 2001 @04:41PM (#2763093) Homepage
    The article claims that the PS2 cannot play DVDs without the remote control, which is not true. It can play them just fine without. The XBox, however, cannot. It's not that bad of an article, just not objective enough.

  • Gekko (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The Gamecube CPU doesn't quite have Altivec like a G4, but it does have something pretty useful for racing through matrix multiplies; data prefetching and paired single operations. Paired Single operations simply use the FPU to work on two singles instead of a double. For graphics and physics and most math intensive operations this essentially doubles the performance.

    Looking at the specs it doesn't seem that special. But when you develop for it you'll be impressed. In many ways it is clearly the best console.

    Of course that can be said about any of them...

  • overheats?? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 29, 2001 @04:58PM (#2763130)
    If i remember right, demo xboxes were supposedly overheating because they were in very enlosed cases with little room for air to circulate to cool it off.

    I have not heard a thing about production xboxes off the shelf that are overheating. In fact, I have not seen anything about overheating, BSODs occuring at all.

    Editors, if you have any evidence for your allegations, please provide them, otherwise you look just like bitter fools spreading FUD.

    • Re:overheats?? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by nice ( 144965 )
      I left my XBox on over the weekend (shame on me, but I was out drinking) and came back and played my game with no problems for many more hours.

      The only problem I have with the XBox, aside from the expensive low quality DVD remote that you must have (and is somewhat hard to find), is its rather large area. It's the only console that won't fit on my mammoth 1985 VCR :)

      Bullet-Time (TM) rocks.
      • FWIW the DVD remote for the X-box is exactly the same as for the RCA5215 DVD player. The only difference is colors of the button and the fact that the power button on the RCA = the "Display" button on X-box.

        Of course, you still need the little receiver to plug into one of the controller ports on the X-boxy, but this could be useful to know if you want to use a universal remote on the X-box for some reason.

    • Re:overheats?? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Osty ( 16825 ) on Saturday December 29, 2001 @05:23PM (#2763182)

      If i remember right, demo xboxes were supposedly overheating because they were in very enlosed cases with little room for air to circulate to cool it off.

      More than that, the possibility that those units were overheating was nothing more than speculation. The only units that ever had problems were those running earlier demo discs, and it was announced that the demo discs were bad -- they were built for the XDK box which has twice the memory (for development purposes), rather than the production XBox, and so would often step past the potential memory space of the real XBox (see how the XBox isn't a PC? If it were, it'd use that nice hard drive as virtual memory, but it doesn't because it's not a PC. Oh, sure, a game could implement its own virtual memory handler, but that has to be done on a per-game basis, as with any console ...). Thus, software problem, not hardware problem. The possibility of overheating was just Slashdot jerking its collective knee.

      • Re:overheats?? (Score:2, Informative)

        by troykoelling ( 315083 )
        I have no bias because I never owned a game console except for an atari when I was about 6. I work at a Target so I get to see all three and talk to customers about how they feel. X Box is the worst customer reaction. I don't know if it is overheating but a lot of them have just frozen up (power gone for no reason), causing the customer to have to send the box back to microsoft after sitting on the Microsoft customer service line for in one case, 2 hours. The freezing of the box made them loose the game because they can't open it without power unless they risk damaging it by prying it open thus voiding any warrente. Its not easy to get the game back once you ship it to Microsoft to fix. Playstation had some problems too when it first came out but people are generally more happy with that and Game cube has few complaints.
        • The freezing of the box made them loose the game because they can't open it without power unless they risk damaging it by prying it open thus voiding any warrente. Its not easy to get the game back once you ship it to Microsoft to fix.

          Spoken like a true Target employee...dija happen to notice the pinhole on the front of the device that's the MANUAL EJECT ACCESS?

          Poke it with a paperclip. Learn something.

          • The nerve of some people, eh? I know if I was working a minimum wage + 25 cents/hr job I would memorize the troubleshooting characteristics of every product the megacompany I work for sells. Then would happily distribute this information to the people who should have been told how to get their game our when they called the customer service line for the product. Then I would complement the customer service line.
    • Don't know about overheating but a friend of mine who was cadged by his young into buying an Xbox has taken it back twice for freezeup problems and even after trading for new units has gotten no satisfaction. It won't run for more than an hour, he says. If his tots weren't so in love with one game involving a little troll called Munch he would've dumped it as a lemon long ago.
    • Let it be known that I don't really have any axe to grind for any particular system. I'm an avid gamer, and I like all three systems.

      That said, the xbox runs hot and is prone to nervous breakdowns. The nearby Toys R Us received a Xbox kiosk about mid-november. When I came by on December 1, I noticed the Green Screen of Death. According to an employee, it was the *second* Xbox to bite the dust since they got the kiosk.

      Same story at Game Crazy. The system would go for a few minutes and die (regardless of the game). Same with Fry's Electronics. And Gamestop.

      So, while one incident would be enough to dismiss, I have seen enough fried xboxes to assume that something is up with the first batch (or at least the batch that retailers where getting for demos).

      Alot of people have faulted the kiosk for poor cooling. The kiosk has *three* cooling fans, and the xbox has about 3 inches of clearance on any side. Far better than what you typically see with consoles in the home. Furthermore, I have only ever seen one fried PS2 kiosk, and haven't seen a dead N64/Dreamcast/Gamecube kiosk *ever*. I don't buy the kiosk excuse. I do think there are alot of zealots who like to play up Microsofts misteps, but the overheat issue is for real.

      ps: What sadist designed the xbox controllers?

  • losing its appeal? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DocStoner ( 236199 ) on Saturday December 29, 2001 @04:59PM (#2763133)
    "The shoot-'em-up game genre, popular in the past, is losing its appeal as television viewers behold the horror of real-life war on the evening news. What game genres will replace it is less clear"

    HUH!?! I beg to differ. Too many people have asked me about playing Q3, Half-Life, and UT online in the last few weeks. Since the prices of pc's have dropped and broadband availibility growing in my city, more and more people are wanting to "shoot'em up" online. (Oops, forgot to mention that the price of those games have dropped recently.)
  • Filled with nice specs, but I was hoping the guy might have also compared the features with what is actually a reality with games today..., but I don't think he even could havbe, based on the info at the bottom:

    Technical Editor Brian Dipert, for all his time spent researching and writing about 3-D graphics and other multimedia topics, doesn't play anything more complex than Solitaire on his desktop and notebook computers and his Casio E-125 Pocket PC

  • The Xbox does not overheat (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jkc120 ( 104731 ) on Saturday December 29, 2001 @05:04PM (#2763142)
    I have had the xbox since it was released, and it has not 'overheated' once. The only time it did anything out of the ordinary was with the Obi-wan game, and I've heard reports from a couple other people of seeing the occasional fluke with the game. So please don't make generalized statements claiming the xbox overheats all the time, when in fact, I think you'll notice that the production xbox is very, very stable.

  • "one overheats" (Score:2, Informative)

    by neurocide ( 179122 )
    boy, guess someone's bias against microsoft runs real deep, doesn't it .. i've had my xbox on since nov 15th practically, not one GSOD, not one crash, and no overheating.

    and that whole harddrive/memory card thing is a great idea, imo.

  • nothing new (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday December 29, 2001 @05:15PM (#2763159)
    "At first they were simple gaming machines, now they focus on email, broadband, DVD playing, web browsing, etc etc"

    Bah.. Yes, at first in 1972 they were just that. But hey, the Odessy only had 40 transistors/resistors/diodes and the "computer" world was a bit different then.

    Current gen:PS2 has planned NIC/HD and can play online (check the back of the PS2 version of Tony Hawk 3 next time you're in a software store!). GC has broadband/56K support on Nintendo's page. The Xfl-box has a built in NIC. DC has 56K support.

    Previous: Saturn had an official modem and all that email, web, stuff, just not the DVD :) There have been consoles before with laser disk support though.

    Previous to that: the 3DO was going to be a multimedia box every household needed. Before that in the late 80s/early 90s Commodore tried the CDTV for multimedia stuff and had Nolen Bushnell promoting it.

    Previous: SNES and Genesis had the Xband modem for games and "email". Again there was planned modems, etc that never shipped. Still Nintendo etc always have those expansion slots-just incase. There was a CD-ROM add on for many of these era consoles so you didn't need to buy a seperate cd player to listen to the new music format..

    During the NES era Nintendo partnered with AT&T to allow users to do banking/stock trading online through their NES! 10,000 homes were hooked up for a test in Minnesota and for $10 a month they could play the state's lotteries online.

    In 1983 there was the CVC Gameline (used a catridge with a 1200baud modem with 8K of ram) for the Atari 2600 that offered news, stocks, "electronic mail", and banking services to 2600 owners. And you could download games for $1 each and keep them until you turned your system off.

    Game consoles have always been "simply gaming machines" until there is enough of them people's homes to be something else. What MS is doing is nothing different than what has been going on for the last few decades.
    • They did have a modem for the Genesis. I bought one for a friend of mine 5 years ago on clearence.

      They also had "the sega channel". Heck, the Atari 2600 had the gameline system!

  • Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dimator ( 71399 ) on Saturday December 29, 2001 @05:17PM (#2763163) Homepage Journal
    Is anyone else tired of /. posting every single console hardware review? It doesnt really matter anyway, how many polygons each machine can pump.

    Games matter. Instead of wasting time, I suggest you go to www.gamespot.com [gamespot.com] and take a good long look at the list(s) of games of each console, read the unbiased reviews, stare at pictures and movies, and then decide which console is coolest.

    • Re:Who cares? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Osty ( 16825 )

      Games matter. Instead of wasting time, I suggest you go to www.gamespot.com [gamespot.com] and take a good long look at the list(s) of games of each console, read the unbiased reviews, stare at pictures and movies, and then decide which console is coolest.

      You're right, games domatter. However, I disagree with your suggestion for Gamespot as a useful source of information. They are very much biased towards the Playstation 2, to the detriment of both the Gamecube and the XBox. Yes, I know that pretty much any site is going to be biased, but Gamespot takes it to an extreme, to the point where their XBox reviews consistently rate 1.5-3 points lower than reviews on other web sites. Maybe they're just "telling it how it is", but when the reader reviews on Gamespot actually line up well with the editorial reviews of other web sites, you get a little suspicious ...


      Sadly, I can't really recommend any better place, as most of the major gaming networks have gone the way of the dodo, or at least made most of their content subscription-only. What I do is keep my eye on Blue's News [bluesnews.com], which is mainly PC gaming but covers console gaming as well. Typically, you'll find links to better reviews than Gamespot reviews at Blue's. Otherwise, go to your local Blockbuster, rent a console and a couple games. Give it a spin for a week for $20 (console and a couple games), see if it's worth spending $300+.

  • 1 paragraph on graphics? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Traa ( 158207 ) on Saturday December 29, 2001 @05:24PM (#2763184) Homepage Journal
    The article is pretty good overall but lacks a major component. GRAPHICS performance (duh)!. It has one paragraph telling us something about multitexturing (guess which box? it starts with an 'x'), high polygon performance to render some cute girlees hair (rrrright), anti alliasing (same 'x'), anisotropic filtering ('x'), writing z-buffer optimised code (goes for all graphics software), if multiple lighting and transforming calculations can be offloaded of the main CPU (xbox again, sorry). It doesn't even mention other texturing tricks that we are allready used to on the PC. Environmentmapping, bumpmapping, etc. (damn impressive in Halo on my xbox).

    I would recommend those that want a deeper analysis of why the xbox is the graphics gaming console of the future (verses these other boxes) to have a good look at what DX8 brought us. Hint: vertex shading and pixel shading.

    Oh, and Mr CmdrTaco, get with the program:
    - PS2 has more games, yes. 425 PS1 + PS2 combined titles. Xbox has about 40 now and that list is growing fast. 100x...whatever
    - Overheating? Don't pull a 'the prerelease box was rumoured to overheat' kinda bull on this forum please
    - Luigi??? Abe farts in the fase of Luigi! In more colors, with surround sound and at 1080i

    LINUX (kernel 0.9) SUCKS!!

    • Re:1 paragraph on graphics? (Score:5, Informative)

      by strags ( 209606 ) on Saturday December 29, 2001 @06:36PM (#2763335)
      I would recommend those that want a deeper analysis of why the xbox is the graphics gaming console of the future (verses these other boxes) to have a good look at what DX8 brought us. Hint: vertex shading and pixel shading.

      Hmm... Actually vertex shaders and pixel shaders are nothing new - it's just that we've finally slapped a standard name on them. Even the Nintendo64 had a "colour-combiner" which could apply two passes of linear equations to the various different colour sources - no, it wasn't a fully programmable pixel shader, but then neither is DX8's most of the time, given the various hardware limitations. I believe the GameCube has a much more sophisticated colour-combiner step - capable of doing pretty much anything the XBox can do with its pixel shader.

      As for vertex shaders - gimme a break! The N64 had completely updateable microcode - you could use the RSP for whatever you wanted, and perform whatever calculations you liked at the vertex transform/shading level.

      DX8 didn't bring us either of these technologies. You would do well to examine the actual meanings of these terms, and look at the capabilities of the competing hardware rather than blindly accepting the hype.
    • If you're so obsessed with graphics, why don't you go back to your PC? Seriously, when I'm playing GTA3 I don't think "Man, if this had more bump mapping like Halo it'd be cool instead of sucking". Newsflash: I don't want to play Halo; as far as I'm concerned it's a FPS which means it sucks. What matters most to me about this new generation of consoles is mostly the larger media. If graphics aren't your most important priority, the xbox is a clear loser right now. It simply doesn't offer me anything much that I want. You may have different priorities, just don't forget that there are people who really prefer the PS2. I don't honestly think the xbox will ever come close to the PS2 in the titles race, but I could be wrong. We'll see.

  • ...and one overheats... (Score:3, Informative)

    by sean23007 ( 143364 ) on Saturday December 29, 2001 @05:32PM (#2763198) Homepage Journal
    If by "one" you mean the XBOX, then you are either a liar or an idiot. I purchased an XBOX and have not yet turned it off, indeed I have hardly stopped playing it (that includes 18 straight hours of Halo, during which I beat the game), and it has yet to overheat. In fact, the box itself is not uncomfortably cool (although it is noticeably warm to the touch), but the gameplay does not slow down. Only someone with 17 fans on their Athlon would think the XBOX overheats. Perhaps you editors should only post what you know, rather than whatever might make people think that Microsoft looks bad. Your propaganda battle is pointless, because you're preaching to the choir, who largely don't matter.
  • This article at cnn http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/fun.games/12/27/video .games.sales.reut/index.html states "Games for the Sony PlayStation 2 platform held eight of the top-20 sales spots and represented five of the 10 best-selling titles over that period, according to market research firm, The NPD group." A game will still suck even on a 10ghz processor

  • I'm buying a Gamecube. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sludge ( 1234 ) <slashdot@NosPaM.tossed.org> on Saturday December 29, 2001 @06:16PM (#2763284) Homepage
    I've played all three systems (as well as many other consoles), and I think that the Gamecube is the best bet for the type of game I want to play.

    When I want single player FPS action, I'll play games on my PC, where I have a mouse, keyboard, cable modem and an excellent 21" Sony Trinitron monitor. So far, the dark and gritty games are still done best on the PC, and this seems to be the major targets of the XBox and PS2.

    Enter Gamecube, a system with games that are commonly colourful and very party oriented. If I'm going to be playing console games, I want to play them with my friends around a big TV. When I pick up my Gamecube, I'm definately grabbing Super Monkey Ball and Super Smash Bros. along with three additional controllers.

    As a PC Gamer, I see the XBox and PS2 for people who don't have near top of the line PC hardware. I see the Gamecube's function as being something a bit different, and it's very attractive. I can't get that over here.

    Besides, it looks like we're going to see some impressive first party titles. Is it possible not to be interested in a Zelda game on mass storage media for the first time?

    • S.Monkey Ball and Smash Bros. are why I had to buy extra controllers. :)

      No wonder the GC can lay claim to the "best reason to have friends" [penny-arcade.com] award. :)

      (Don't count out the PS2, though. There are a few PS2 exclusive titles that you really should play.)
    • true, go and try to buy something other than a FPS or a racing game for the PS2. There are a total of 6 available and I own all 6 (BTW, Cookies and Cream is plain awesome as a game and I reccomend it to everyone. the pisser is that it reqires 2 players at a minimum.)

      I really hope they get away from it and start making decent games again.. (although GTA3 is fun. Nothing like driving recklessly through traffic.... I hope they make a driver 3 for the playstation as I loved driver 1 and 2... getting cops to launch off of a bridge chasing you is really fun.)

      What happened to game development? everything is just a warmed over copy of everything else.
      • Uhh, GTA3, FFX, Onimusha, RE:Veronica, Silent Hill 2, THPS3, MGS2, that's seven I could go on, but I won't. There are easily more non-FPS games for PS2 thatn there are games total for the GC.

        Not that I don't want a GC as well but your statement is without an ounce of truth.
  • But what about the long term? As far as hardware goes, the PS was actually inferior to the N64, but won out in the long run after everyone knew how to program for it and create (at least aesthetically) better games. The fact that it's medium had 10 times more storage than the N64 is not why it won out, as many will testify; the fact that it was easier to program for becuase of the fact that size was literally not a problem (Final Fantasy, anyone?) opened the door to developers to pump out whatever game they could get approved. Where as the PS has practically countless games for it, almost all of the games for the N64 are generally good if not high-quality. That being the past, look at the race now. A 3-horse race, 2 of them similair and 1 lame. The fact that both the XBox and the PS2 can play DVD's has everyone wowed and blurry-eyed. The fact that the N64 had twice the bits of the PS accomplished much the same thing. I think that Nintendo's focus on pure gaming and affordability will win out in this one, as it did with Sony in the previous round.

  • x-box problems (Score:2, Interesting)

    by terrymr ( 316118 )
    A friend of mine toured local retailers before Christmas - and he was told by them that they were seeing a 37% approx failure rate on XBoxes.

    This may have been BS to cover for them having no stock but it seems like a bad way to sell something to me.

  • Review something useful, willya??? (Score:3, Funny)

    by EvilStein ( 414640 ) <.ten.pbp. .ta. .maps.> on Saturday December 29, 2001 @09:35PM (#2763685)
    How about a Slashdot review on how the hell you plug all of these game consoles into your existing video system? :P

  • load of bull? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Scrameustache ( 459504 ) on Saturday December 29, 2001 @09:46PM (#2763696) Homepage Journal
    Seeing how the article makes blatant mistakes (the PS2 does not, in fact, require an extr remote to play DVD, nor does it require extra consoles to play with more than two players, its got an optionnal multi-tap for that), I'm wondering how many more subtle mistakes it makes in the less easily verified points: Numbers, architecture descriptions, etc.

    And I reiterate: The GAMES are the important thing.
    Xbox has nothing worth buying it (ooo, halo, big freakin' deal) while PS2 has Metal Gear Solid 2 (greates game of all time???), the Game Cube has super monkey ball (come on! A monkey in a ball? You can't get any more fun!), an pikmin and more coming.

    I bought a PS2...I'm thingking about a game cube, but xbox is NOT interesting.

    • Re:load of bull? (Score:2, Informative)

      by KewlPC ( 245768 )
      From the article:

      Each strand of Aki Ross' "hair," for example, reportedly contained hundreds of polygons, and each movie frame took 90 minutes to render on a Sun workstation farm.



      Sorry, no. Aki Ross' har wasn't made up of polygons. Polygons may be popular in the game world, but in the pro CG and SFX world, they're about as popular as that math-nerd girl you sat next to in class, whereas NURBS et al would be the sexy cheerleader by comparison.



      And no Sun Microsystems computers were used. SGI machines, because of their monstrous memory bandwidth, were used as workstations for the modelling, animating, compositing, and editing, and also as servers for setting up the batch renders and divying up render jobs among the render farm. The render farm itself was 900+ Pentium III powered PCs w/768MB RAM each, all running Linux.



      I hardly need to mention that the SGI machines were most likely running IRIX.

  • XBox is evil (Score:3, Funny)

    by t_allardyce ( 48447 ) on Saturday December 29, 2001 @09:59PM (#2763719) Journal
    Microsoft is just trying to create a closed pc where they can control everything. The XBox is an evil machine, even the name 'X' is evil, what does it mean? why 'X'? are they trying to hide something? Also, everyone knows that the XBox crashes all the time and that it overheats because there is a hampster fused with a plutonium core inside which they can use to make a nuclear device, i've seen the plans!!!

    10 years on, and Microsoft's XBox is the industry standard. After the system was reverse engineered by an independent party, the market opened up for XBox 'clones' also known as Microsoft Compatables. These clones were produced by 3rd parties but the OS and DRM systems were provided by Microsoft - Because of the wide software base (Microsoft bought up Sony in 2004), the 3rd parties wanted to maintain compatibility with the Microsoft OS, and, because it was law in America, the Digital Rights Management System had to be provided by an approved company - either Microsoft or AOL/Time Warner. On the other side Nintendo provided their range of computers - the Polyhedron series. However no-one took them seriously except artists and writers.

  • It's not a G3... (Score:3, Informative)

    by melatonin ( 443194 ) on Saturday December 29, 2001 @11:37PM (#2763877)
    It's amazing how many articles think Gekko is based on a G3. At least this one mentioned 'unspecified' modifictions (which ain't true).

    cube.ign.com [ign.com] has a great interview with two of the designers of the chip, and it's really informative. Part 2 [ign.com] is even better, where they talk about the competition's chips :)

    The interviews really shed some light onto the chip's functionality; it's engineered for gaming and a far cry from the off-the-shelf XBox CPU. Additionally, they mention that IBM detailed the chips at Hot Chips and the Embedded Processor Forum. Can anyone dig that info up?

  • XBox (Score:3, Interesting)

    by cube00 ( 524394 ) on Sunday December 30, 2001 @12:08AM (#2763910)
    I just got an Xbox and I am quite happy with it.. except for one thing: It does over heat. While playing a great game of Project Gotham after finishing a one on one with a Skyline (with my Ford Focus lol) it just froze on the loading screen... I havent had this problem with other games I have but its quite annoying...
  • I just thought I would put in my 2 cents on this...

    I bought a gamecube at launch cause I am a longtime nintendo supporter and wanted to try it out. I bought Rogue Leader, Tony Hawk 3, and Super Smash Brother Melee. Rogue Leader is a great game, but the PS2 version of tony hawk 3 gets better reviews across the board and the gamecube port has some serious issues (slowdown on certain levels)....

    Super Smash Brothers is good as well but not something I would play a lot by myself... so when I sat back and looked at the situation I realized there were a good dozen games I want to play on PS2 but just not that much out for gamecube yet. I realize this was the problem with PS2 at launch as well but in my impatience I have switched over to PS2. I may buy a gamecube later down the line but not just yet.

    In other words, I don't really think for a lot of us the features and graphical abilities are the most important thing... its purely who has the best games at the moment.
  • Anyone else irritated by the senseless use of PDF documents for their figures and references?

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