Free The TA Source Code

JFL writes " A petition to request that the Total Annihilation source code's current owner, Infogrames, release the code into the public domain is currently in full swing over at the French site TA Forever. " I recently picked up TA again, and played around with it - while the graphics are looking a bit dated, the design for the system is great - a very extensible design system, and one that you could build some interesting environments on top of. The use of height is something that was, and to a certain extent, still far ahead of other RTS ^? games.

It's still being sold

[mESSDan]

at WalMart and K-Mart, it's part of the $9.99 software. I know because I almost bought it again, even though I own all of the TA series (TA, TA:Core Contingency, TA:Kingdoms, and TA:K:Iron Plague), but I wouldn't mind keeping a copy in shrinkwrap just in case, the game is THAT fun.

IMO, the only reason TA isn't considered to be the BEST RTS game created is because it was overshadowed by a much more hyped and anticipated game, Starcraft.

Releasing to the "public domain"

[AirLace]

Releasing software to the "public domain" is dangerous and stupid.
IANAL, but public domain software has several legal issues that open the originator of the code to legal liability. It may prove prudent to request that they license their code under the BSD or GPL licenses, which limit liability.

Although I can't go into details (still under NDA after 6 years technically), we got bitten by this at a large software house not so long ago. Basically, some of our examples in the documentation were marked as "public domain" software and a third party began to redistribute the examples in binary form with added graphical interfaces. It turned out of the developers of this GUI had written his code on another company's time, and that company decided to sue us. Since there was no limitation of liability in our distributed source code, our lawyers had a harder time justifying our position.

Don't underestimate the bit of a license that goes something like this:


THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE REGENTS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND
ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE
IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE
ARE DISCLAIMED.


Asking Infogrames to "public domain" their source code is, in my opinion, uninformed and irresponsible.

Sadly...

[James Foster]

Sadly... I very much doubt this effort will result in the TA source code being released to the public. Whilst the source code probably isn't much use to Infogrames anymore, they have no reason to release it.
Perhaps this being posted on Slashdot will conjure up enough momentum to sway Infogrames into releasing it, but if you look at the petition it's quite apparrent that it's not going anywhere really fast with comments like "FREE THE DAMN CODE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" and "AHHH!!! FrEe ThE DaMn CoDe MaN!!!!".
It's not much of a convincing argument and I hate to sound negative but this seems like a lost cause. Infogrames would only ever release the source code out of good will, and unfortunately good will is something that large companies inherently lack (even Philips with their fight against copy protection have a motive other than good will).
Either way, I'm off to sign the petition... at least only good can come from at least trying!

The AI

[theCoder]

What TA always needed was a better AI. I can almost always crush 3 AIs on hard on just about any map (I did eventually win on Seven Islands, but that took forever), but that's because the computer is relatively stupid in how it plays. And since I usually just play the computer (the only person I know who likes TA doesn't like to play computer games made later than 1985), I never get any better and usually get crushed when I do find a person to play.

If they opened the code and someone wrote a better AI, that would kick ass! (mine, specifically :)

Even if not...

[Accipiter]

You know, even if the source code isn't released, Total Annihilation runs damn near perfectly under current WINE [winehq.com] vintages.

I love this game, and I'm extremely glad I can run it in X. If you've never played it (and you run Linux), head to Electronics Boutique. You can find it on the shelf for about $4.99 last time I saw it. Then download, compile, and configure WINE, run TA setup, and voila! Runs fantastic.

You don't understand the concept.

[Anonymous Coward]

I was there when ID release Doom and Quake under the GPL license.

Guys, it was a great Idea. Nowadays, we have Doom and Quake running on a variety of platforms, to not mention OpenGL, DirectX, shadows and light effects. ID users have a pretty decent updated versions for their licensed copies, and a lot of people still can play the shareware versions in a up to date hardware.

Please note that only the engine source code is GPL. The images, soundtrack, maps, etc are still copyrighted. ID loses no money with this : you still have to buy a Quake copy if you wanna play the Quake game.

However, people like the Team Fortress Team was able to extend the game, and people like QuakeForge Team can improve the game, and ID doesn't spend a cent. Everybody wins. No one loses.

Let's do the same with TA.

Do you know who Inforgrams is?

[Anonymous Coward]

I dunno why anybody would release code that even a very small market wants, for FREE, in this economy.

I don't know why anybody would hang onto code that they don't intend to do anything with - oh wait, I do - to stifle competition.

Cavedog (the makers of TA) was dead before Infogrames aquired it's parent company, GT Interactive (and it's sister company, Humongous Entertainment). Infogrames only owns TA as an in-the-vault piece of intellectual property, yet they are extremely anal and possesive about their intellectual property. They scammed the founders of Humongous Entertainment out of all of theirs during the buyout, although they have repeatedly stymied several efforts within the studio to develop those properties.

If the code belongs to a small group of individuals, offer to pay them or exchange services (like web design or web hosting?) to the people who own it.

Do you have any idea who Infogrames is? They are not a "small group of individuals". They are often described as the world's largest intertactive entertainment company. They own the rights (for game development) to Warner Brothers characters for cripes sake.

There is little tolerance for email petitions and other such forms of protest in this day and age.

I also think this petition is doomed to failure (unfortunately). But not because of general low tolerance or because of the current enconomy. Rather, because Infogrames is a global corporation and because they act like one. We are not worthy even of their notice.

- A former Humongous Entertaiment employee.

TA is amazing.

[Gecko(dude)]

it is, the community, with very little help from cavedog (the now-defunct developers of TA). We can make the game itself do back flips without the soruce, we can add units that lose parts, over heat, transform, can be upgraded (GKX), we can make entire new races, we can even use proper 3d terran software to make maps (bryce and terragen), we can do more than Chris Taylor (creator of total annihilation) ever dreamed.

but the engine is old, and it is starting to lose it's appeal even to the guys who have been playing since it was released (4 years ago), it's running out of supply at stores, it's hard to find, and most people don't remember it, very little new blood flowing into the community (which is about 1000 people). anyways, i've never seen a commerical RTS released under an open-source liscense, I think it'd be very interesting to see the results.

Re:Why do I suspect you're misrepresenting?

[Nindalf]

No one wants that; if GPL code loses protection, so does Microsoft code.

More licence folklore. Fans of the GPL might find this nice to imagine, but breaking the GPL doesn't necessarily mean breaking all copyright protection for software. Contract law is complex and subtle, and more defined by principles involving intent, reasonability, and effect than by hard mechanistic rules.

The GPL is a rather unusual (perhaps "bizarre" would be a better word) contract. It's purpose is not to secure direct material profit, but primarily to allow all use except incorporation into closed source software.

Consider that the intent of putting a product under the GPL might be considered to be anticompetitive, an attempt to force established companies to release trade secrets and give up their ability to withhold software from those who haven't paid if they wish to interoperate with complex standards. The restrictions of the GPL could be struck down without affecting the permissions, if the court determines this is the proper remedy.

The GPL was born out of frustration, and written with hostility against the commercial software establishment. Contracts written with hostile intent toward anyone are always questionable.

The X11 license can also be used with any license ever used

It has been interpreted to be compatible with the GPL, but that doesn't guarantee the courts will agree with this interpretation if someone using the X11 or GNU license disagrees. It is debatable whether the advertising thing is an additional and incompatible restriction. The FSF has no power to define the proper interpretation of software contracts, they can only make their own guesses about what would happen in court.

Re:But there are a couple big "IF"s.

[Sycraft-fu]

I would submit that there are cases where releaseing the code could actually generate a company more revenues. If a group of devoted fans decided to modify the code to bring it current, then there might be more interest in buying the game again. Remember, we are talking about the CODE, not the GAME, the former is a subset of the latter. Example:

Suppose Infogrames indeed decides to relase the code for the TA core. Some fans then proceed to modify the engine so it uses 3d accelerators and all the other latest hardware. Now the CDs would still be required to play the games, after all that's where it is going to get all the graphics, sound, mission data, etc. It just now looks more modern is is of more appeal. This could potentially generate more interest. As I'm sure you know, good looking graphics really help sell a game.

I'll give you another example: X-com and X-com 2 were two of my favourite games when I was a teen. However a lot has changed in the way of hardware and software since then and alas, they won't work in Windows XP. There is a Win32 version out there, but whoever Microprose had write it didn't seem to feel it necessary to obey the DirectX spec properly, and it won't run under NT based (2000/XP) OSes. Now if Microporse were to release the code I or someother X-com fan would fix the problem and release an binary that ran under XP. Well if that binary existed, I'd go buy the CDs so I could play it again.

Not saying that in all cases releaseing the code is to a company's benefit, but it can be. It seems to work well for ID Software.