Australian Commisssion Defends Playstation Mod-Chipping 301
newt writes "The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) is intervening in a court case to defend Sony Playstation owners' right to modify their consoles to play imported games. The ACCC is submitting a friend of the court brief, arguing that Sony's regional playback controls are unlawful. This has implications for DVD region zoning too: The ACCC has previously
published its concerns about DVD regioning, and its latest press release about this case reiterates the problems presented to Australian consumers by Sony's practices."
hmm. (Score:1)
graspee
Best of luck to the Australians and Philips (Score:2)
Outside of the US though, all we see is that we are paying higher prices to get movies long after they have been released in the US. It just feels anticompetitive to us as we could often import them more cheaply or buy them on holiday in the US.
Now the music companies are also trying to make music CD's you can't play/copy onto computers. I was interested to read that, Philips who licences the CD formats to other companies, isn't going along with this. Apparently if the music companies modify CD's not to play on computers, they mustn't use the standard "Compact Disc Digital Audio" logo, as their modifications fall outside of this standard according to Philips. Philips is even looking at making CD writers that could cope with the modified CDs anyway.
See the article: Philips, the co-creator of the CD, is refusing to play along with music CDs that are designed to prevent playback on PCs [zdnet.co.uk]
Re:hmm. (Score:2, Informative)
Unfortunately we still have that luddite of the Millenia "Brian Harradene", grrr. I must admit that i like the ACCC they seem to be the only government department that actually sticks up for the little people!
Good (Score:1)
Australian sense (Score:1, Insightful)
Australia? You've got to be kidding. (Score:3, Troll)
Re:Australia? You've got to be kidding. (Score:4, Informative)
This mod chip... (Score:1, Interesting)
What is the technical difference?
Re:This mod chip... (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.vguys.com/modchip.htm
Basically, modchips allow the console to boot discs from another region, by changing CD subcodes to a universal format. It makes it so that other region disks boot, with the side effect of allowing CD-R copies to be played. So it's a region and copy protection go around.
Other consoles (Gamecube, Saturn) have simple switch mods that allow region changing, and some (Xbox, Gameboy color/advance) have no region checking.
BBK
Re:This mod chip... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:This mod chip... (Score:2)
How about this justification:
"When I buy a piece of hardware, its mine to do with as I want"
Re:This mod chip... (Score:5, Informative)
When you take a vacation to Arizona, the gas is much, much cheaper, but alas won't run in your car because the signature chemical is missing. You have to buy special "California" gas at a premimum.
Techincally, there's no difference between an AZ car and a CA car, except that artificial price controlling mechanisms have been put in both cars making the fuel from one state non-interchangable with the other. It's a way to create an artificial market and shut out competition.
Do you get it now?
Finally some high up agency doing something (Score:1)
Pity.
Re:Finally some high up agency doing something (Score:5, Interesting)
In other regions, where the region coding is used as a price control (read: gouging), consumers are little more irrate. Hence government action.
Re:Finally some high up agency doing something (Score:2)
I buy DVD's, but the feature I care most about is the multiple audio track and subtitle feature. However, finding versions of my CD's with English, French and Spanish is actually quite difficult. I find it irritating that I could get the same title in Europe with those languages and more, but I'm not into hacking my DVD player.
Unfortunately, bilingualism just isn't as big here as in the rest of the world.
If I had my way, every DVD would have at least 3 languages and subtitles and/or closed captions.
This is good (Score:2, Interesting)
All they have to do is make sure that all their releases have some content that is banned in Australia, and sponsor raids against the importers. Then they get legislation passed REQUIRING them to add region control.
Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
It would seem that the U.S. is no longer the defender of the free world - for a country which values freedom so much, we are doing less than others to protect it. Why is it that Australia, the EU, and Russia (yes, our former enemy) are going to bat to defend the liberties of individual citizens while our government is actively taking them away?
I used to be proud to be an American.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
What will protect people's rights is people prepared to voice them and defend them. A written consitution is only good for describing what those rights might include. Without something to back it up it's just ink on paper, give any government long enough (200 odd years is more than enough) and they can find sufficent loopholes in any piece of text.
There is also the problem of a written constitution taking on the role of a "sacred text", where people can simply quote the words, but fail to understand the meaning.
Re:Why? (Score:3, Informative)
Australia has nothing like a bill of rights, the Australian constitution limits the powers the Federal Government has over the States, and also limits what the domain of the State governments a bit as well. The only limitations I can find are:
41. No adult person who has or acquires a right to vote at elections for the more numerous House of the Parliament of a State shall, while the right continues, be prevented by any law of the Commonwealth from voting at elections for either House of the Parliament of the Commonwealth.
51.(i.) Taxation; but so as not to discriminate between States or parts of States:
51.(xxiiiA.) The provision of maternity allowances, widows' pensions, child endowment, unemployment, pharmaceutical, sickness and hospital benefits, medical and dental services (but not so as to authorize any form of civil conscription), benefits to students and family allowances:
99. The Commonwealth shall not, by any law or regulation of trade, commerce, or revenue, give preference to one State or any part thereof over another State or any part thereof.
100. The Commonwealth shall not, by any law or regulation of trade or commerce, abridge the right of a State or of the residents therein to the reasonable use of the waters of rivers for conservation or irrigation.
Whereas the list of things they can do is quite a bit longer:
51. The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to:-
(i.) Trade and commerce with other countries, and among the States:
(ii.) Taxation; but so as not to discriminate between States or parts of States:
(iii.) Bounties on the production or export of goods, but so that such bounties shall be uniform throughout the Commonwealth:
(iv.) Borrowing money on the public credit of the Commonwealth:
(v.) Postal, telegraphic, telephonic, and other like services:
(vi.) The naval and military defence of the Commonwealth and of the several States, and the control of the forces to execute and maintain the laws of the Commonwealth.
(vii.) Lighthouses, lightships, beacons and buoys:
(viii.) Astronomical and metereological observations:
(ix.) Quarantine:
(x.) Fisheries in Australian waters beyond territorial limits:
(xi.) Census and statistics:
(xii.) Currency, coinage, and legal tender:
(xiii.) Banking, other than State banking; also State banking extending beyond the limits of the State concerned, the incorporation of banks, and the issue of paper money:
(xiv.) Insurance, other than State insurance; also State insurance extending beyond the limits of the State concerned:
(xv.) Weights and measures:
(xvi.) Bills of exchanging and promissory notes:
(xvii.) Bankruptcy and insolvency:
(xviii.) Copyrights, patents of inventions and designs, and trade marks:
(xix.) Naturalization and aliens:
(xx.) Foreign corporations, and trading or financial corporations formed within the limits of the Commonwealth:
(xxi.) Marriage:
(xxii.) Divorce and matrimonial causes; and in relation thereto, parental rights, and the custody and guardianship of infants:
(xxiii.) Invalid and old-age pensions:
(xxiiiA.) The provision of maternity allowances, widows' pensions, child endowment, unemployment, pharmaceutical, sickness and hospital benefits, medical and dental services (but not so as to authorize any form of civil conscription), benefits to students and family allowances:
(xxiv.) The service and execution throughout the Commonwealth of the civil and criminal process and the judgements of the courts of the States:
(xxv.) The recognition throughout the Commonwealth of the laws, the public Acts and records, and the judicial proceedings of the States:
(xxvi.) The people of any race, for whom it is deemed necessary to make special laws:
(xxvii.) Immigration and emigration:
(xxviii.) The influx of criminals:
(xxix.) External Affairs:
(xxx.) The relations of the Commonwealth with the islands of the Pacific:
(xxxi.) The acquisition of property on just terms from any State or person for any purpose in respect of which the Parliament has power to make laws:
(xxxii.) The control of railways with respect to transport for the naval and military purposes of the Commonwealth:
(xxxiii.) The acquisition, with the consent of a State, of any railways of the State on terms arranged between the Commonwealth and the State:
(xxxiv.) Railway construction and extension in any State with the consent of that State:
(xxxv.) Conciliation and arbitration for the prevention and settlement of industrial disputes extending beyond the limits of any one State:
(xxxvi.) Matters in respect of which this Constitution makes provision until the Parliament otherwise provides:
(xxxvii.) Matters referred to the Parliament of the Commonwealth by the Parliament or Parliaments of any State or States, but so that the law shall extend only to States by whose Parliaments the matter is referred, or which afterwards adopt the law:
(xxxviii.) The exercise within the Commonwealth, at the request or with the concurrence of the Parliaments of all the States directly concerned, of any power which can at the establishment of this Constitution be exercised only by the Parliament of the United Kingdom or by the Federal Council of Australasia:
(xxxix.) Matters incidental to the execution of any power vested by this Constitution in the Parliament or in either House thereof, or in the Government of the Commonwealth, or in the Federal Judicature, or in any department or officer of the Commonwealth.
Note that over time the States have transferred some of their powers to the Commonwealth giving them a larger domain than indicated. Also it is a reasonably common enough occurance for the Commonwealth to convince all the states to pass a law, in effect making a commonwealth law that they are not supposed to make. I guess this is *much* easier in Australia with only 6 states than in the US.
We have universal gun control in this country - something campaigned for by the Commonwealth government.
In the state I live we have 'move-on' laws, so the police can force you to leave a public area, public assembly without approval is illegal, distribution of pamphletes without authority is illegal, broadcasting without authority is illegal (having your walkman up to loud is a crime), skateboarding, bike riding, and the wonderful phrase to have in law 'anything of that nature' in a public space is illegal without authority, you can be banned from said public space for life for breaching those laws, the police can enter a permise without a warrant if they think it is being used for drug crimes...
It's amazing what the government will do when it doesn't have a bill of rights restructing it when something like the Olympics comes along.
Of course these laws are not enforced in a manner that makes it a police state - but that's not the point, they could be in the future.
Ouch. Nothing prevents perpetual copyright. (Score:2, Funny)
The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to: ... (xviii.) Copyrights, patents of inventions and designs, and trade marks
Unlike the U.S. Constitution, this doesn't even specify a weak "limited times" guarantee. Therefore, Australia's Parliament has the right to pass a perpetual copyright on a given work.
Also it is a reasonably common enough occurance for the Commonwealth to convince all the states to pass a law, in effect making a commonwealth law that they are not supposed to make.
The US does this too, saying in effect "Pass these laws, or we take away your highway construction money." It puts a new spin on the term "highway robbery."
Re:Ouch. Nothing prevents perpetual copyright. (Score:2, Interesting)
The Australian Parliament does whatever the hell they feel like.
In the lead up to the last election the Government tried to pass a law that would allow the defense forces to force a boat out of Australian waters at the discretion of the captiain of the defense vessel giving him/her no responsibility if the boat then sank or whatever. This was part of the government's 'get tough on refugees' campaign (which got them elected). Due to their incompetence the bill was so vague that it basically gave the defence the right to force an Australian vessel containing Australian citizens out of Australian waters. It was the most rushed through bill in Australian history, but the opposition at least had their eyes open and refused to pass it in the senate.
Complete insanity.
Re:Ouch. Nothing prevents perpetual copyright. (Score:2)
Maybe maybe if had passed Australia would have ended up with a one ship navy, consisting of the ship best at sinking other Australian warships
Re:This is +5 Insightful? (Score:3, Insightful)
In Australia, we don't tend to talk about "God Given Rights", we know that we don't have a right to remain silent - so when someone comes along to take away what we do have, even if it is just the ability to play games for the US market, then a lot of people take notice.
Just don't come here by boat - we'll send you somewhere else or lock you up in the desert!
Re:Why? (Score:1)
For some good history on the subject, take a look at http://www.adbusters.org/ (i'm too lazy to link.)
Re:Why? (Score:2, Offtopic)
Not intended as a troll or a direct attack on previous poster. Just sick of adbusters holier than thou approach. (One plus though is that they DO print letters which put them down for those exact same reasons)
Re:Why? (Score:1, Troll)
Hell, Australia has banned the videogame grand theft auto 3.
In the U.S. banning any form of media on a federal level is nearly (not completely) impossible.
tcd004
Re:Why? (Score:1)
I wouldn't consider Australia better than the US (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
Once the lawyers can say that it has happened in country X (or in this case XXXX) their arguments have more weight, despite the differences in legal systems.
Re:Why? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Why? (Score:2)
mod chip uses (Score:1)
2. copied game work around.
I think the second will hold up in court
Call me stupid, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Call me stupid, but... (Score:1)
You see, it's all One's and Zero's. They are the One's and we are the Zero's. No matter how many AND operations you perform 1 AND 0 will always = 1.
Re:Call me stupid, but... (Score:2, Funny)
Funny, I always thought that 1 AND 0 = 0. The only way to get 1 out of an AND is to do 1 AND 1. Perhaps you meant OR?
Re:Call me stupid, but... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Call me stupid, but... (Score:1)
This case is about a Japanese based company and Australian law - so how does DMCA have any impact ?
Re:Call me stupid, but... (Score:2)
Of course, the DMCA is US law. If that was an Australian post, its still pretty much legal to mod your PS.
In fact, if the ACCC wins this one, then we could set up mod chip making factories in Australia without fear of prosecution.
Michael
Re:Call me stupid, but... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Call me stupid, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Call me stupid, but... (Score:1)
If you read the article, you'd know that the lawsuit is concerning a business installing mod chips, not the end user. Your statement may or may not be true, but it completely misses the point.
Re:Call me stupid, but... (Score:5)
Generally speaking, yes. You can take it completely apart, poke and prod all the bits, and otherwise reverse-engineer to your heart's content. The DMCA wasn't really intended to limit this type of behaviour. You won't find agents at your door because you took apart your PlayStation 2 or Xbox, or whatever. If you own it, you can do as you like.
The sticky part comes when you publish (via the internet or otherwise) a direct method to circumvent any copy protections. It also gets more hairy when you offer to sell bits and pieces for what can circumvent those protections. If I produce a piece of equipment (with patents, copyrights, etc. over that), I should also have the expressed right over how I want to license 3rd party manufacturer's.
You can buy a PS2 controller from other companies besides Sony. But Sony gets a piece of that product, because they own the machine that it is intended for. When we start to talk about mod chips, Sony doesn't see any of that. They haven't licensed these products, and it's quite likely that these manufacturers are using Sony's registered names and trademarks (I mean, they are called PS2 mod chips...). Also, mod chips allow for Sony to further lose control over their licensing by way of "3rd party" games in the form of piracy.
Personally, I think Sony is stuck in a position where they can't win. If they don't go after these companies who sell mod chips, they risk losing their licenses, trademarks, etc. These things have to be protected. On the other hand, if they go after mod chip vendors, it looks like they are just being bullies.
Of course, you still can do whatever you want to your own hardware in your own home. Sony doesn't really care to break down the doors of even those people who purchased a mod chip. It isn't in their interest--and the government doesn't give a darn (cause the burden of proof is high to get a search warrant). Heck, I have a DVD player in pieces in my basement because I'm curious how it works--but under no circumstance will that allow the manufacturer to come into my house to see if I've broken a copyright protection mechanism. Once I start selling chips, though.... all bets are off.
Re:Call me stupid, but... (Score:2)
Didn't this already get settled with Nintendo vs. Game Genie? AFAIK, you can make unlicensed games that work with any system and sell them.
3rd party controller manufacturers, I imagine, pay Nintendo a fee in exchange for specs, standards and support to ensure compatibility with the system.
The sticking point, of course, is the DMCA which makes these kind of circumventions illegal. AFAIK though, they don't have an DMCA-equivalent in Australia.
Re:Call me stupid, but... (Score:3, Interesting)
So if I create a mod chip for my car and resale my technology, you're telling me that the manufacturer is due some profit from my efforts even though it was developed completely without their help? That's insane! What if I develope an IR to RF converter for my Sony remote control which I developed without any of Sony's help. Should Sony get a peice of the pie? Of course not. If I state that these devices function with with a Sony system and a Pontiac car (common practice on many items commonly available from most stores), in what way am I violating their trademarks or patents? Since this goes on every day with cars and many other goods, in what way is this any different for a gaming console. Last I heard, Ford, Chevy, Pontiac, etc., have not lost their trademarks nor had their patients violated by these systems. The car metaphore is very close to home as it modifies the car's operation to function in a manner different than comes from the manufacurer. So what's the issue. This is no way shape or form, constitutes a patent or trademark violation. In fact, last I heard (uncomfirmed), Sony is in violation of internation trade laws by placing the zoning logic into their devices (as is every electronic device which has restrictive zoning logic).
As for the ruling that the concept is illegal, there is clearly LOTS of prior cases which invalidate the courts ruling, clear and simple! Simply put, the judge is a moron. Based on his assertion allow for only a slight extension of his logic, if I purchase a book from another country and it is locally available from another publisher, I've now violated copyright. That's insane. When will these judges realize that just because the word "computer" or "electronic" is used it doesn't somehow invalidate logic or all other laws based on simular technologies.
Re:Call me stupid, but... (Score:2)
I like your car metaphor--and I think it can be applied here.
Generally, manufacturers can get around licensing issues with regard to automobiles because their items are general purpose, and have nothing to do with copyright, patents, or other property of the auto manufacturer.
Chilton's and Haynes pay a licensing cost to auto makers. This isn't a huge affair, but it does exist. You can say it's wrong and evil, but the fact is that these publishers make their money from reproducing information that for the most part belongs to the manufacturer. This doesn't stop any citizen from taking apart his brand new Mustang GT and measuring every component--it simply means that said individual can't just go out and sell that information to others without first consulting the proper owner of the designs.
Now, if a company began to produce modified EEPROMS for a particular car's computer, that could very well land that company in a court of law to answer charges. Yes, I know that there are people who do this--especially to Honda Civics. Obviously, Honda doesn't support this type of thing, and it voids your warranty. If this company takes open data from Honda (either through public information, published information, or licensing) and then uses that to produce a new EEPROM--all is fine. There isn't anything wrong with that.
What isn't okay is when a company reverse-engineers the existing EEPROM without any permission from the manufacturer, and then modifies that information for resale. That is the equivelent to reverse-compiling a company's software and then selling a modified version for profit, which is illegal in most every nation. In most cases, auto manufacturers have ways to publish or otherwise license most every detail about a car so that people can do as they please. It's like the GPL. But you can't get mad at a company if they don't feel the GPL is right for them--and you can't get mad about Sony not publishing this particular information.
No company has any right to go after citizens for reverse-engineering their products. That includes Sony, GM, Microsoft, and Aunt Millie's Pretzels. That has never been an issue, and my guess is that it never will become one. A company does have the right to protect their work and their product's design details from competitors, though. If Ford reverse-engineered a GM EEPROM, modified it, and then used that code on their new cars; there would be hell to pay. GM put time and money into that program and it can't be used without GM's permission. Similarly, you can't go trolling around for one of Betty Crocker's recipes and expect to sell either the recipe itself or products you made directly as a result of having that recipe.
Sony never made any information public regarding their PS2 hardware that would allow for a mod chip to be designed. They also never licensed anyone that information for such a use. It seems fair to say that any information regarding the hardware design came from either reverse-engineering or from individuals working for Sony who gave those secrets up. The companies who are producing these mod chips are using "fruit of the poisonous tree", so to speak. They can't show a legal means for them to have the information to produce the mod chips--such as a public document showing the internal schematics of the PS2 or some license with Sony that allows them to use that information as they please.
I suppose that I have difficulty seeing why it's unfair for Sony to attempt to control piracy, maybe even restrict use of some games because of their own internal marketting strategies. It's their system, for gosh sakes. They own it, they own the design, the name, the commericals, and they even own the right to say how much it will cost a company in licenses to develop software for their console. It isn't like there aren't two other competitors--Nintendo and Xbox. If Sony's tactics are so foul and evil; feel free to sell your hardware on Ebay and purchase something from someone else. You can speak louder by your purchasing habits than any other way. Don't think for a minute that Sony wouldn't find a way to allow for mod chips if their customers really desired them. Most people really don't care, though. They feel mod chips are only used for piracy and thus are immoral.
Re:Call me stupid, but... (Score:2)
Which is rather redundant since anyone prepared to break the law generally dosn't care how many laws they break. Or rather they care about the law with the higest potential cost if they get caught.
Due to copyright laws that are unrealistic to enforce (but not necessarily bad laws), they need to pass a second law to help enforce the first one.
If the new law is excessivly broad to the point where it starts to look like considering peopkle guilty until proven innocent that it won't be obeyed anyway.
Lets do something about it here too (Score:1)
Welcome Mr. Snowball to Hell... (Score:1)
What it would take here to have that happen would be for some HUGE company over here to complain that they couldn't do something they were entitled to because of region encoding, say something like Ford manufacturing a bunch of cars overseas, and they put a bunch of Japanese region encoded DVD players in their vans, cars, etc.
But the DVDs for their on-board navigation system, and all American region DVDs don't play in their cars so Ford has to recall them all. That's they only way this'll ever change...
Whats the point of region limitations anyway? (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as I know, VHS can be played everywhere (pal/ntsc versions) and computer software isnt limited to specific regions, so why are DVDs and Video Games?
Anything else limited this way? I can understand that diffrent countries have diffrent ratings and what not, but the fact that digital formats can block usage in diffrent regions of the world seems like a backwards thing to be doing in this time of freedom and what not.
Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway? (Score:2, Interesting)
But this idea (that doesnt sound bad at first) limits our rights over our own stuff. If i have a receipt for a buying, i must have the right to do anything with it. It doenst mean i can use the DVD to rip someone's head off, but i can play freebie with it if i feel like it.
What happens if i buy a DVD player and 100 movies and then moye to another continent?? is silly to restrict the use of something i legally bought.
Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway? (Score:2)
In other words, US DVDs are deliberately overpriced because there are enough suckers who will pay the price? How does this idea not sound bad straight away? It sounds to me like you pay too much for your crack too.
Target Costing (Score:2)
DISCLAIMER: I'm not in favor of this, I'm just speculating as to the motivations behind it.
Re:Target Costing (Score:2)
In which case maybe the entire process of creating a DVD for region A should be carried out in region A, ditto for region D...
The cost of getting a DVD to market in Japan is much higher than it is in Florida. DVD companies want to prevent Japanese DVD buyers from skipping the normal channels.
What if the Japanese person wants the film in American English?
Re:Target Costing (Score:2)
So, region coding protects inefficient retail stores and distributors from competition. Doesn't sound like a good thing to me.
Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway? (Score:3, Informative)
Region coding does make sense with DVDs. You see, there's often a long delay before US movies are released in other countries.
Take Memento [imdb.com]: I had imported the DVD in September 2001 - but the movie didn't play in theaters in that country until December!
Movies cost a fortune, and the main income is still what flows through the box office. Now if a movie is released on DVD before it appears in theaters (and that happens very often), both movie theaters and studios would suffer.
VHS didn't have that region coding option, of course, because it was technically impossible at that time. But with DVD technology they've been thoughful enough to add it.
And as for games, well. My best guess is that SCEA, SCEE and SCEI are somewhat independent (they have different TRCs and regulations). And similar to movies, the release dates for the individual regions differ. Without a protection, Europeans would import the US version, SCEE would make less money. This may sound ridiculous cause "Sony is Sony", but keep in my that SCEE and SCEA have their own staff and budgets. A very prominent incident which touches this issue is the Infogrames Civ3 dilemma [slashdot.org].
My personal stance about this whole thing is that it's a big hypocrisy. I mean, people are bitching about how their rights are being taken away and everything, but let's face it: How many of them are actually using imports? In 99% of all cases, the mod chip is used to play pirated games. Hey, we had this discussion before. [slashdot.org]
There was a chip for the PSX which allowed to circumvent the region coding but still prevented using CD-Rs. That's more like it. They should build one like that for the PS2 too. Let's see how many people care or even KNOW about that chip then.
Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway? (Score:4, Insightful)
This has no influence what so ever on the income of the studio's.
Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway? (Score:2)
Depends how they actually do the production. (Subtitling is generally done by the host country.) Anyway given that English is the worlds second most common language a huge number of people (several times the entire US population) outside the US can reasonably understand a US produced movie even without subtitles.
How do they cope with American Spanish and (Canadian French)???
Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway? (Score:2)
1) You are assuming that videos without subtitles will out-compete theater presentations with them. If true, makes you wonder why the subtitles are needed...
2) Subtitles are hardly needed in Australia/NZ or Britain, but movie releases are delayed there, too. I doubt that subtitles do much good in India either (possibly the world's largest country), because there are a lot more Indians that understand English than understand any one of the many local dialects. I rather doubt that most films ever get subtitled in Malaysian, but then all educated Malaysians do more or less speak English, and the rest probably can't afford a movie ticket anyhow. And so on.
3) It should only take a few weeks to subtitle a movie anyhow. Or are you arguing that residents of other parts of the world should pay for the movie studios inefficiencies with delayed releases and higher prices?
DVD delay argument doesn't make sense (Score:3, Insightful)
That would make sense if only new DVDs come out with regional encoding, but my copy of "Alien" here - which was released quite a while back - is limited to Code 2. Everything gets coded, ancient or still on the big screen. This makes the "delay" argument look kinda silly.
I mean, people are bitching about how their rights are being taken away and everything, but let's face it: How many of them are actually using imports?
In Europe (somewhat more than 360 million people, I should point out), a lot of people. This is because there is a greater selection of DVDs in the U.S. than in Europe. Also, some DVDs are in German translation only ("Flash Gordon", the new version with Queen's music, is one of them). And third and most important, DVDs from different countries are censored in different ways. Europeans (especially Germans) take out the violence (the German version of "Fight Club" is somewhat of a joke), while the U.S. has this problem with nudity and sex ("Color of Night" is one that comes to mind).
If you want to see the film the way the director intended, sooner or later you're going to have to import you stuff.
Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway? (Score:2)
It makes sense to the publisher, but only to them
Intersstingly not all material produced in the US get's relased on region 1 DVD first. TV series can appear on DVD outside the US long before they are released in the US. e.g. on another thread recently US posters were complaining they they could only get S1 Buffy on region 1 DVD.
Movies cost a fortune, and the main income is still what flows through the box office. Now if a movie is released on DVD before it appears in theaters (and that happens very often), both movie theaters and studios would suffer.
There is nothing actually stopping a worldwide release of any movie. (Or for that matter making a "trial release" outside the US.)
Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway? (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, in the case of the PS2 there are huge delays between a game's release in the US and other markets... Final Fantasy X, Metal Gear Solid 2 and Ico are all games I would play as imports, since I still can't buy them in the UK even though they came out in the US last year. I don't give a rat's arse about DVD playback, since I have a perfectly decent DVD player that doesn't require a game pad, and is already multi-region.
Your argument that DVD imports stop the studio from arbitrarily delaying the release of movies is at best circular, by the way. Harry Potter and LOTR both show that studios can release simultaneously worldwide if they want to.
Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway? (Score:2)
Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway? (Score:2)
On the face of it it's of course different, protection of the cinema's and associated industries.
The fact these are not suffering in Region 1 where everything is NOT 6-12 months delayed is conveniently forgotten.
And when it's possible to make a profit in India with Indian prices it's equally possible with a similar price in Europe, the US or Australia.
Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway? (Score:2)
The fact these are not suffering in Region 1 where everything is NOT 6-12 months delayed is conveniently forgotten.
Actually region 1 customers can get to suffer too. But with television series rather than movies.
Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway? (Score:2)
It would be better for there to be price, release date, and feature parity. If the Japanese publishers were not being quite as greedy, there'd be no real incentive for reverse importation. Clearly it's possible -- you manage somehow, and the supply/demand curve would likely make up for it with greater sales volume.
Of course, me, I buy tons of anime... and I was looking at that NGE box set... but I really loathe both region coding, and bad disks that might make up for it. So I think I'll pass. Thanks.
Let's hope it snowballs... (Score:5, Funny)
I'm guessing the remedy would be to require players sold in Australia to be capable of playing all regions.
This would result in Australian DVD players being exported to other countries. This gets done already but usually they require mods or they're expensive. But if you have a legit source of "official" DVD players, I think they'll prove popular.
US DVD Player manufacturers will either see this as a threat(because people will buy Aussie DVD players instead of American ones) or as an extra cost of business(because they'll have to effectively produce two different types of the same players) and start lobbying for the right to produce region-free players here as well.
...
Then Sony brings down the wrath of the WTO and crushes this newly gained freedom in Australia and the fantasy comes to an end.
Re:Let's hope it snowballs... (Score:2)
Eg. I went to a normal HiFi store, and told them I want a DVD player. I talked for a moment about what I really want and need, how much I'm willing to pay, and so on. I asked offhand that "this is of course multi region?" and got a yes for that. I actually had to wait for a few days for my player because the model I wanted had sold better than they had expected, but later that week I picked my player up and have been happy with it ever since.
Costs more? Oh yes, they could've sold me an unmodded player for some 100€ less. However, as I knew I was buying mostly anime, which isn't available in Europe, it wasn't an option ever (OK, Japan is R2, but I don't know enough Japanese to not to need subtitles). I could've of course bought a standard US R1 player, but it would've cost me more (they're not generally available in Finland - modded one is cheaper).
To date, I have some 280 discs of which three are PAL R2 (European), the rest are NTSC R1, multiregion, or unrestricted. And not a single problem with the player.
Re:Let's hope it snowballs... (Score:2)
Costs more? Oh yes, they could've sold me an unmodded player for some 100 less.
You didn't say how much you paid, most likely the R2 only one is discounted because hardly anyone would buy it otherwise. I assume that it wasn't a cheap one in the 150-200 euro range...
Not in Oz (Score:2)
Gez, right now they are selling DVD/MP3 players at the computer markets for about$170, unlocked (multi-region, not region-free, which makes them compatible with the latest Sony Studios DVDs too - the latest Sony DVDs won't work on DVD players set to regin 0, which is the regionfree setting, so you have to have a DVD player with a multi-region setting, where it automatically changes the region to match the DVD)
Australia, prepare for our wrath! (Score:2, Insightful)
You Buy it it's yours, right? (Score:1)
As altruistic as it seems... (Score:5, Funny)
The politicians can't get enough Hentai Dating Simulation games. Never underestimate the power of a school girl uniform and a 20 foot long penis-tentacle.
Re:As altruistic as it seems... (Score:2)
Of course (Score:2, Informative)
This guy has challenged the CD monopoly of studios within Australia, is currently going after the British publishing houses that have sewed our book market shut..and now region coding..
Any wonder they are trying to remove him?
Consumer friendly policy (Score:4, Interesting)
Over here, the government guarantees a "reasonable" minimum warranty on all purchased items, ignoring any "lets screw the customer" EULA-s or the like. I suspect that suing Microsoft for faulty software would succeed in Australia, but would fail in the US.
DVD region encoding [only slightly OT] (Score:5, Insightful)
I want my Hollywood revisionist history epics now, dammit!!!!
Re:DVD region encoding [only slightly OT] (Score:2)
Europe has them, has for some time now. I'd love to have them too -- so I resorted to downloading the episodes until they become available to purchase here.
Good quality too. I'd just mail (who exactly?) a cheque and call it even but then they'd probably try to arrest me or something.
Re:DVD region encoding [only slightly OT] (Score:2)
Actually in some cases years. Just not enough angry Futurama and Buffy fans in the US yet... (N.B. stakes, crossbows and swords would appear to be covered by the second ammendment...)
Sony Might Stop Selling (Score:2, Interesting)
Instead (Score:4, Informative)
I would show them how they could live in a world where DVDs could be watched anywhere, where they weren't restricted as to when they could fast-forward, or copy, and how these massive companies bribe governments to restrict freedom. I would introduce them to the idea of operating systems other than Microsoft Windows(R) that were free and open so you couldn't hide malicious code in them.
You would think people would know this already, but you would be surprised how many non-slashdot readers honestly think that it costs _that_much_ to make a DVD, even though the studio has already made a massive box-office profit. People actually don't realise how much they are being ripped off and controlled. They have been completely conditioned.
Obviously I would probably be sued if I had these public-service-announcements made and showen, but thats how the world works.
At least somewhere gets it right (Score:2, Insightful)
Sometimes it seems Australia is the only place that actually has a good stance on the various region protection systems and copyrights. Shame they go and screw it all up with their censorship laws.
but what does this mean compared to this... (Score:2, Interesting)
This is only the beginning of a slew of court rulings and laws that will confict with each other and throw the already confused state of affairs into absolute chaos.
And why would someone like me want to study this in grad school? Because it's f**king cool - that's why =)
taco
Re:but what does this mean compared to this... (Score:2)
While I agree with the sentiment, the World Series is named after a newspaper called the New York World [snopes2.com] who were the original sponsor.
I'm glad the Aussies... (Score:2, Informative)
That got butchered in Europe too, only the japanese and american versions didn't. I wonder why?
Simple solution (Score:4, Funny)
1) Sony should be allowed to region encode both disks and the PS2.
2) Consumers should be allowed to bypass the region protection if they desire.
That's maximum freedom for everybody. I don't understand the problem.
Go the ACCC! (Score:2)
Anyway, I fully support them and would gladly give them more power as they have proved to me in their actions and in conversation with me that they would not abuse their powers.
But as for the rest of Australia's governments
Re:Go the ACCC! (Score:2)
Fuck the libs, and potentially fuck the upper borgoise. The whole GST thing really made (A) a lot of us workers and small business peple poorer and (B) forced the otherwise independant and excelent ACCC to be (ab)used as a govt propoganda ministry.
Ah.... yeah I prob shouldnt post drunk, but as much as I dig the ACCC and Prof. Fells, sometimes one really needs to vote for power to stop it becoming mysterious. As the bald one says, (in a drunken paraphrase) Globalisation shouldnt be used against ppl.(remember I said paraphrase). Now buy me a beer. uck.
Travel advisories.... (Score:2)
I wonder if mod chips are ruled legal and designed/made/used in the AU if they will have to issue an advisory for Australian electrical engineers traveling to the USA or Japan...
The next great war (if there is one) will be fought over intelectual property. I am begining to think the USA are not going to be the good guys..
Re:Travel advisories.... (Score:2)
Pity it didn't go like this in the UK (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Only good use for region coding... (Score:1, Funny)
Re:Only good use for region coding... (Score:1)
Which side of the road? (Score:3, Interesting)
They drive on the left, along with basically all former British colonies outside of North America.
It's an interesting little historical digression as to why different countries drive on the sides of the road they do. It actually all goes back to Napoleonic Europe. Before Napoleon, everyone used the left side of the road. It just sort of naturally happened that way, most people are right handed after all, and if that passer-by jumps at you as he goes by, you want your strong hand (which might well be holding a sword, after all) between you. Or if you were in a chariot, or on a horse, the weapon typically would be in the right hand, the reins in the left - which leads to the same thing. So for centuries everyone in europe used the left side of the road.
Then came Napoleon. And the Napoleonic wars. Horrid bloody confused battles, gunsmoke obscuring view, troops arriving late and needing to tell friend from foe quickly when they marched into view along a roadway. Plus Napoleon was a bit of an iconoclast anyway. So he came up with a way that his armies could quickly tell friend from foe, even under the most confused conditions. He decreed that the French would now use the right side of the road, not the left. Anyone marching on the left side of the road was the enemy. He conquered nation after nation, and when they were conquered, they switched sides and used the right side of the road.
The British were never conquered. They still use the left to this day. So do their former colonies (with the exceptions mentioned.)
Sweden also he did not conquer. However, back in the 1960s, the Swedes did finally change over to be compatible with the nations around them. They had some rather confused motorists for a bit, as you might imagine, but eventually everyone got used to it. Most other European nations that Napoleon didn't conquer (such as Switzerland, for instance) nevertheless made that adjustment long before, for the sake of commerce with their neighbors.
Ahh but now the strange exception in North America. We actually went through a period of relative chaos on this issue - most early Americans were from England after all, but then again, we fought the British and those French had helped us... so there was some disagreement and regional variation, although the right side was probably more popular, particularly early on. Henry Ford actually was the one that put an end to it. He had a bit of a fetish about efficiency - you may know that he only put out his cars in one colour, for instance, to simplify the painting stage of production, not to mention his supply logistics. So it was natural he would want to decide to put the steering wheel on one side or the other, not both (an option his competitors catered to.) He settled on the left, it is said, because his left arm was weak from a childhood illness and he found it difficult to shift gears with it. So he put the steering wheel on the left, shifted with his right, and his cars became so successful that the entire continent was soon driving on the left side of the road.
Re:Only good use for region coding... (Score:1)
Re:Only good use for region coding... (Score:2)
You need to try Burnout then - LOTS of oncoming traffic, cross-traffic, semi trucks and so on. The only way to win is to take risks in oncoming traffic and in the gaps between lanes.
It has the same sort of feel as the car chases in movies like Ronin, or the final city part of the newer Gone In 60 Seconds.
And an american once said ... (Score:2, Funny)
I would rather live in a country founded by convicts, that one founded by puritans.
Re:its a fact... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:its a fact... (Score:2)