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Games Entertainment

Australian Commisssion Defends Playstation Mod-Chipping 301

Posted by chrisd from the region-coding-is-bad dept.
newt writes "The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) is intervening in a court case to defend Sony Playstation owners' right to modify their consoles to play imported games. The ACCC is submitting a friend of the court brief, arguing that Sony's regional playback controls are unlawful. This has implications for DVD region zoning too: The ACCC has previously published its concerns about DVD regioning, and its latest press release about this case reiterates the problems presented to Australian consumers by Sony's practices."
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Australian Commisssion Defends Playstation Mod-Chipping More

Australian Commisssion Defends Playstation Mod-Chipping

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  • Lucky Australians!

    graspee
    • The movie studios claim they need regional coding to allow them to see which movies are successful in the US, before promoting and launching them elsewhere.

      Outside of the US though, all we see is that we are paying higher prices to get movies long after they have been released in the US. It just feels anticompetitive to us as we could often import them more cheaply or buy them on holiday in the US.

      Now the music companies are also trying to make music CD's you can't play/copy onto computers. I was interested to read that, Philips who licences the CD formats to other companies, isn't going along with this. Apparently if the music companies modify CD's not to play on computers, they mustn't use the standard "Compact Disc Digital Audio" logo, as their modifications fall outside of this standard according to Philips. Philips is even looking at making CD writers that could cope with the modified CDs anyway.

      See the article: Philips, the co-creator of the CD, is refusing to play along with music CDs that are designed to prevent playback on PCs [zdnet.co.uk]

    • Re:hmm. (Score:2, Informative)

      by mallie_mcg ( 161403 )
      Lucky Australians!

      Unfortunately we still have that luddite of the Millenia "Brian Harradene", grrr. I must admit that i like the ACCC they seem to be the only government department that actually sticks up for the little people!

  • Good (Score:1)

    by inkypi ( 176758 )
    I'm glad some countries have some sense.

  • This mod chip... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    What is the difference between a mod chip'd console and a non-modded console? Besides being able to play foreign games, of course.

    What is the technical difference?

    • Re:This mod chip... (Score:5, Informative)

      by bbk ( 33798 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @07:11PM (#2977242) Homepage
      A good description of (psx) mod chipping can be found here:

      http://www.vguys.com/modchip.htm

      Basically, modchips allow the console to boot discs from another region, by changing CD subcodes to a universal format. It makes it so that other region disks boot, with the side effect of allowing CD-R copies to be played. So it's a region and copy protection go around.

      Other consoles (Gamecube, Saturn) have simple switch mods that allow region changing, and some (Xbox, Gameboy color/advance) have no region checking.

      BBK

    • Re:This mod chip... (Score:5, Informative)

      by 8string ( 316088 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @07:57PM (#2977395)
      Imagine if your car would only accept gasoline from your homestate (let's say California).

      When you take a vacation to Arizona, the gas is much, much cheaper, but alas won't run in your car because the signature chemical is missing. You have to buy special "California" gas at a premimum.

      Techincally, there's no difference between an AZ car and a CA car, except that artificial price controlling mechanisms have been put in both cars making the fuel from one state non-interchangable with the other. It's a way to create an artificial market and shut out competition.

      Do you get it now?
  • I doubt it would ever happen in the United States, which would also mean it probably wouldn't ever happen in Canada either.

    Pity.

    • Re:Finally some high up agency doing something (Score:5, Interesting)

      by ryants ( 310088 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @06:52PM (#2977145)
      I doubt it would ever happen in the United States, which would also mean it probably wouldn't ever happen in Canada either
      The real problem here (Canada), I believe (which is code for "I'm talking out of my ass, but it kind of makes sense, so bear with me") is that consumers are apathetic: except for a few tentacle Anime loving freaks, nobody here cares about region coding, because we're in Region 1, and get all the Hollywood flicks pretty cheap.

      In other regions, where the region coding is used as a price control (read: gouging), consumers are little more irrate. Hence government action.

      • pretty much, although it's not just the anime freaks that care.

        I buy DVD's, but the feature I care most about is the multiple audio track and subtitle feature. However, finding versions of my CD's with English, French and Spanish is actually quite difficult. I find it irritating that I could get the same title in Europe with those languages and more, but I'm not into hacking my DVD player.

        Unfortunately, bilingualism just isn't as big here as in the rest of the world.

        If I had my way, every DVD would have at least 3 languages and subtitles and/or closed captions.

  • This is good (Score:2, Interesting)

    by 91degrees ( 207121 )
    Unfortunately, it isn't going to help an awful lot. While this may prevent Sony from control through technological means, they can still use Australias draconian censorship policies to stifle the releases that way.


    All they have to do is make sure that all their releases have some content that is banned in Australia, and sponsor raids against the importers. Then they get legislation passed REQUIRING them to add region control.

  • Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gillbates ( 106458 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @06:56PM (#2977164) Homepage Journal
    The more I think about it, the more it seems that the United States is the only industrialized country which actively takes rights away from its own citizens.

    It would seem that the U.S. is no longer the defender of the free world - for a country which values freedom so much, we are doing less than others to protect it. Why is it that Australia, the EU, and Russia (yes, our former enemy) are going to bat to defend the liberties of individual citizens while our government is actively taking them away?

    I used to be proud to be an American.

    • Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by starduste ( 550437 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @07:01PM (#2977188)
      I'm not sure of the other countries, but in Australia, we have no rights given to us in the Constitution. Therefore, we have hundreds of civil groups, telling us *why* it's important the government does not take away our freedom. On the other hand, in America, those groups simply claim that the government can't do that (whatever that may be) because of the Constitution - hence some people simply say "oh well, doesn't seem too important anyway". Because we are constantly told why it's important in Australia, we value those freedoms much more, and create a huge uproar when politicians try and take it away.
      • Yeah, that's why GTA3 is banned over there, and there's censorship abroad on the Internet in the down under.

      • Re:Why? (Score:2)

        by mpe ( 36238 )
        I'm not sure of the other countries, but in Australia, we have no rights given to us in the Constitution. Therefore, we have hundreds of civil groups, telling us *why* it's important the government does not take away our freedom. On the other hand, in America, those groups simply claim that the government can't do that (whatever that may be) because of the Constitution - hence some people simply say "oh well, doesn't seem too important anyway".

        What will protect people's rights is people prepared to voice them and defend them. A written consitution is only good for describing what those rights might include. Without something to back it up it's just ink on paper, give any government long enough (200 odd years is more than enough) and they can find sufficent loopholes in any piece of text.
        There is also the problem of a written constitution taking on the role of a "sacred text", where people can simply quote the words, but fail to understand the meaning.
    • America has been a corporate run nation for quite a few years now. We aren't citizens, we're just consumers.

      For some good history on the subject, take a look at http://www.adbusters.org/ (i'm too lazy to link.)

      • Re:Why? (Score:2, Offtopic)

        by Cruciform ( 42896 )
        Ugh. Adbusters gets left in the washroom at work so of course it gets read here, but while some of the points they make are valid they're no less hypocritical than anyone else. The magazine is all flash and no bang, berating anything and everything in the media while using the same tactics to say "Hey, everyone, look at me reading this pretty flash magazine! I'm cool cuz I'm CULTURE JAMMING!" An example would be directions on how to protest at stores by dropping stink bombs in them. That's not a political statement, that's being an asshole.

        Not intended as a troll or a direct attack on previous poster. Just sick of adbusters holier than thou approach. (One plus though is that they DO print letters which put them down for those exact same reasons)

    • Re:Why? (Score:1, Troll)

      by tcd004 ( 134130 )
      I'm familliar with the emotions that lead you to make this post, but you should think a little more carefully before making such rash generalizations. In most countries in the world, you wouldn't even be provided a forum to make such a statement.

      Hell, Australia has banned the videogame grand theft auto 3.

      In the U.S. banning any form of media on a federal level is nearly (not completely) impossible.

      tcd004
    • I wondered the same thing after the arrest of Skylarov.

    • I wouldn't consider Australia better than the US (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Trepidity ( 597 ) <delirium-slashdot@@@hackish...org> on Saturday February 09, 2002 @04:02AM (#2978499)
      ...in this regard. Sure, they're on the "right side" in this one particular case. But Grand Theft Auto 3 is illegal in Australia, while it's the best-selling PS2 game in the U.S., where it's perfectly legal.
  • 1. region encoding work around.
    2. copied game work around.

    I think the second will hold up in court :-(

  • Call me stupid, but... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by lorcha ( 464930 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @07:02PM (#2977195)
    ... when I purchase a piece of hardware, can't I do whatever I want with it? Recognizing that it might void the warranty, of course...
    • Nope. You can't. Welcome to the Post-DMCA world of mega-corporations and huge amounts of lobbying money.

      You see, it's all One's and Zero's. They are the One's and we are the Zero's. No matter how many AND operations you perform 1 AND 0 will always = 1.

      • No matter how many AND operations you perform 1 AND 0 will always = 1.

        Funny, I always thought that 1 AND 0 = 0. The only way to get 1 out of an AND is to do 1 AND 1. Perhaps you meant OR?

      • The DMCA is a US specific law that does not apply outside of the US.

        This case is about a Japanese based company and Australian law - so how does DMCA have any impact ?
      • Nope. You can't. Welcome to the Post-DMCA world of mega-corporations and huge amounts of lobbying money.

        Of course, the DMCA is US law. If that was an Australian post, its still pretty much legal to mod your PS.

        In fact, if the ACCC wins this one, then we could set up mod chip making factories in Australia without fear of prosecution.

        Michael
    • Most likely not, politicians all over the world have been busy selling out the little guys rights to big corporations for the last few decades. See stuff like MAI [flora.org] and fast track [citizen.org]

    • Re:Call me stupid, but... (Score:5, Funny)

      by eric_aka_scooter ( 556513 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @07:22PM (#2977279) Homepage
      Speak it, brother! How's that old geek saying go... "if you aren't voiding the warrenty, then you aren't even trying."
    • Ok, stupid.

      If you read the article, you'd know that the lawsuit is concerning a business installing mod chips, not the end user. Your statement may or may not be true, but it completely misses the point.

    • Re:Call me stupid, but... (Score:5)

      by clark625 ( 308380 ) <clark625@nOspam.yahoo.com> on Friday February 08, 2002 @07:47PM (#2977371) Homepage

      Generally speaking, yes. You can take it completely apart, poke and prod all the bits, and otherwise reverse-engineer to your heart's content. The DMCA wasn't really intended to limit this type of behaviour. You won't find agents at your door because you took apart your PlayStation 2 or Xbox, or whatever. If you own it, you can do as you like.

      The sticky part comes when you publish (via the internet or otherwise) a direct method to circumvent any copy protections. It also gets more hairy when you offer to sell bits and pieces for what can circumvent those protections. If I produce a piece of equipment (with patents, copyrights, etc. over that), I should also have the expressed right over how I want to license 3rd party manufacturer's.

      You can buy a PS2 controller from other companies besides Sony. But Sony gets a piece of that product, because they own the machine that it is intended for. When we start to talk about mod chips, Sony doesn't see any of that. They haven't licensed these products, and it's quite likely that these manufacturers are using Sony's registered names and trademarks (I mean, they are called PS2 mod chips...). Also, mod chips allow for Sony to further lose control over their licensing by way of "3rd party" games in the form of piracy.

      Personally, I think Sony is stuck in a position where they can't win. If they don't go after these companies who sell mod chips, they risk losing their licenses, trademarks, etc. These things have to be protected. On the other hand, if they go after mod chip vendors, it looks like they are just being bullies.

      Of course, you still can do whatever you want to your own hardware in your own home. Sony doesn't really care to break down the doors of even those people who purchased a mod chip. It isn't in their interest--and the government doesn't give a darn (cause the burden of proof is high to get a search warrant). Heck, I have a DVD player in pieces in my basement because I'm curious how it works--but under no circumstance will that allow the manufacturer to come into my house to see if I've broken a copyright protection mechanism. Once I start selling chips, though.... all bets are off.

      • >>If I produce a piece of equipment (with patents, copyrights, etc. over that), I should also have the expressed right over how I want to license 3rd party manufacturer's.

        Didn't this already get settled with Nintendo vs. Game Genie? AFAIK, you can make unlicensed games that work with any system and sell them.

        3rd party controller manufacturers, I imagine, pay Nintendo a fee in exchange for specs, standards and support to ensure compatibility with the system.

        The sticking point, of course, is the DMCA which makes these kind of circumventions illegal. AFAIK though, they don't have an DMCA-equivalent in Australia.
      • Heck, I have a DVD player in pieces in my basement because I'm curious how it works--but under no circumstance will that allow the manufacturer to come into my house to see if I've broken a copyright protection mechanism. Once I start selling chips, though.... all bets are off.

        So if I create a mod chip for my car and resale my technology, you're telling me that the manufacturer is due some profit from my efforts even though it was developed completely without their help? That's insane! What if I develope an IR to RF converter for my Sony remote control which I developed without any of Sony's help. Should Sony get a peice of the pie? Of course not. If I state that these devices function with with a Sony system and a Pontiac car (common practice on many items commonly available from most stores), in what way am I violating their trademarks or patents? Since this goes on every day with cars and many other goods, in what way is this any different for a gaming console. Last I heard, Ford, Chevy, Pontiac, etc., have not lost their trademarks nor had their patients violated by these systems. The car metaphore is very close to home as it modifies the car's operation to function in a manner different than comes from the manufacurer. So what's the issue. This is no way shape or form, constitutes a patent or trademark violation. In fact, last I heard (uncomfirmed), Sony is in violation of internation trade laws by placing the zoning logic into their devices (as is every electronic device which has restrictive zoning logic).

        As for the ruling that the concept is illegal, there is clearly LOTS of prior cases which invalidate the courts ruling, clear and simple! Simply put, the judge is a moron. Based on his assertion allow for only a slight extension of his logic, if I purchase a book from another country and it is locally available from another publisher, I've now violated copyright. That's insane. When will these judges realize that just because the word "computer" or "electronic" is used it doesn't somehow invalidate logic or all other laws based on simular technologies.

        • I like your car metaphor--and I think it can be applied here.

          Generally, manufacturers can get around licensing issues with regard to automobiles because their items are general purpose, and have nothing to do with copyright, patents, or other property of the auto manufacturer.

          Chilton's and Haynes pay a licensing cost to auto makers. This isn't a huge affair, but it does exist. You can say it's wrong and evil, but the fact is that these publishers make their money from reproducing information that for the most part belongs to the manufacturer. This doesn't stop any citizen from taking apart his brand new Mustang GT and measuring every component--it simply means that said individual can't just go out and sell that information to others without first consulting the proper owner of the designs.

          Now, if a company began to produce modified EEPROMS for a particular car's computer, that could very well land that company in a court of law to answer charges. Yes, I know that there are people who do this--especially to Honda Civics. Obviously, Honda doesn't support this type of thing, and it voids your warranty. If this company takes open data from Honda (either through public information, published information, or licensing) and then uses that to produce a new EEPROM--all is fine. There isn't anything wrong with that.

          What isn't okay is when a company reverse-engineers the existing EEPROM without any permission from the manufacturer, and then modifies that information for resale. That is the equivelent to reverse-compiling a company's software and then selling a modified version for profit, which is illegal in most every nation. In most cases, auto manufacturers have ways to publish or otherwise license most every detail about a car so that people can do as they please. It's like the GPL. But you can't get mad at a company if they don't feel the GPL is right for them--and you can't get mad about Sony not publishing this particular information.

          No company has any right to go after citizens for reverse-engineering their products. That includes Sony, GM, Microsoft, and Aunt Millie's Pretzels. That has never been an issue, and my guess is that it never will become one. A company does have the right to protect their work and their product's design details from competitors, though. If Ford reverse-engineered a GM EEPROM, modified it, and then used that code on their new cars; there would be hell to pay. GM put time and money into that program and it can't be used without GM's permission. Similarly, you can't go trolling around for one of Betty Crocker's recipes and expect to sell either the recipe itself or products you made directly as a result of having that recipe.

          Sony never made any information public regarding their PS2 hardware that would allow for a mod chip to be designed. They also never licensed anyone that information for such a use. It seems fair to say that any information regarding the hardware design came from either reverse-engineering or from individuals working for Sony who gave those secrets up. The companies who are producing these mod chips are using "fruit of the poisonous tree", so to speak. They can't show a legal means for them to have the information to produce the mod chips--such as a public document showing the internal schematics of the PS2 or some license with Sony that allows them to use that information as they please.

          I suppose that I have difficulty seeing why it's unfair for Sony to attempt to control piracy, maybe even restrict use of some games because of their own internal marketting strategies. It's their system, for gosh sakes. They own it, they own the design, the name, the commericals, and they even own the right to say how much it will cost a company in licenses to develop software for their console. It isn't like there aren't two other competitors--Nintendo and Xbox. If Sony's tactics are so foul and evil; feel free to sell your hardware on Ebay and purchase something from someone else. You can speak louder by your purchasing habits than any other way. Don't think for a minute that Sony wouldn't find a way to allow for mod chips if their customers really desired them. Most people really don't care, though. They feel mod chips are only used for piracy and thus are immoral.

  • Does anyone know what it would take for someone to bring up a similar case up in US?
    • Monkeys flying out of my ass would probably do the trick. I think it necessarily has to be my ass, either.

      What it would take here to have that happen would be for some HUGE company over here to complain that they couldn't do something they were entitled to because of region encoding, say something like Ford manufacturing a bunch of cars overseas, and they put a bunch of Japanese region encoded DVD players in their vans, cars, etc.

      But the DVDs for their on-board navigation system, and all American region DVDs don't play in their cars so Ford has to recall them all. That's they only way this'll ever change...

  • Whats the point of region limitations anyway? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by deviantonline ( 542095 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @07:17PM (#2977260)
    I have never really understodd this. Why do video games and dvd's only play in certain parts of the world? What is the rationelle behind this?

    As far as I know, VHS can be played everywhere (pal/ntsc versions) and computer software isnt limited to specific regions, so why are DVDs and Video Games?

    Anything else limited this way? I can understand that diffrent countries have diffrent ratings and what not, but the fact that digital formats can block usage in diffrent regions of the world seems like a backwards thing to be doing in this time of freedom and what not.

    • The creators of the idea of DVD regions claimed that it would be used to deliver the DVD technology to relatively poor countries in a cheap way. For instance, soemody from India cant afford the prices in the US, so they have their own zone, with cheaper prices. This allows the diversity without destroying the US market.

      But this idea (that doesnt sound bad at first) limits our rights over our own stuff. If i have a receipt for a buying, i must have the right to do anything with it. It doenst mean i can use the DVD to rip someone's head off, but i can play freebie with it if i feel like it.

      What happens if i buy a DVD player and 100 movies and then moye to another continent?? is silly to restrict the use of something i legally bought.
      • For instance, soemody from India cant afford the prices in the US, so they have their own zone, with cheaper prices... But this idea (that doesnt sound bad at first)

        In other words, US DVDs are deliberately overpriced because there are enough suckers who will pay the price? How does this idea not sound bad straight away? It sounds to me like you pay too much for your crack too.
    • I think one of the motives behind the regional coding is target costing. The idea being that if Region A will buy 1000 DVD's at $9.99 and region D will buy 1000 DVD's at $15.99, you want to prevent region D from buying Region A DVD's at a substantial decrease. Besides profit being the motive, there is also a cost consideration. The cost of getting a DVD to market in Japan is much higher than it is in Florida. DVD companies want to prevent Japanese DVD buyers from skipping the normal channels.


      DISCLAIMER: I'm not in favor of this, I'm just speculating as to the motivations behind it.

      • I think one of the motives behind the regional coding is target costing. The idea being that if Region A will buy 1000 DVD's at $9.99 and region D will buy 1000 DVD's at $15.99, you want to prevent region D from buying Region A DVD's at a substantial decrease.

        In which case maybe the entire process of creating a DVD for region A should be carried out in region A, ditto for region D...

        The cost of getting a DVD to market in Japan is much higher than it is in Florida. DVD companies want to prevent Japanese DVD buyers from skipping the normal channels.

        What if the Japanese person wants the film in American English?
      • The cost of getting a DVD to market in Japan is much higher than it is in Florida.

        So, region coding protects inefficient retail stores and distributors from competition. Doesn't sound like a good thing to me.
    • I have never really understodd this. Why do video games and dvd's only play in certain parts of the world? What is the rationelle behind this?

      Region coding does make sense with DVDs. You see, there's often a long delay before US movies are released in other countries.

      Take Memento [imdb.com]: I had imported the DVD in September 2001 - but the movie didn't play in theaters in that country until December!

      Movies cost a fortune, and the main income is still what flows through the box office. Now if a movie is released on DVD before it appears in theaters (and that happens very often), both movie theaters and studios would suffer.

      VHS didn't have that region coding option, of course, because it was technically impossible at that time. But with DVD technology they've been thoughful enough to add it.

      And as for games, well. My best guess is that SCEA, SCEE and SCEI are somewhat independent (they have different TRCs and regulations). And similar to movies, the release dates for the individual regions differ. Without a protection, Europeans would import the US version, SCEE would make less money. This may sound ridiculous cause "Sony is Sony", but keep in my that SCEE and SCEA have their own staff and budgets. A very prominent incident which touches this issue is the Infogrames Civ3 dilemma [slashdot.org].

      My personal stance about this whole thing is that it's a big hypocrisy. I mean, people are bitching about how their rights are being taken away and everything, but let's face it: How many of them are actually using imports? In 99% of all cases, the mod chip is used to play pirated games. Hey, we had this discussion before. [slashdot.org]

      There was a chip for the PSX which allowed to circumvent the region coding but still prevented using CD-Rs. That's more like it. They should build one like that for the PS2 too. Let's see how many people care or even KNOW about that chip then.

      • Re:Whats the point of region limitations anyway? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Teun ( 17872 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @08:14PM (#2977456)
        No it does not make sense, nobody forced the US studio's to release their movies 6-12 months later in other countries.
        This has no influence what so ever on the income of the studio's.
      • Region coding does make sense with DVDs. You see, there's often a long delay before US movies are released in other countries.

        That would make sense if only new DVDs come out with regional encoding, but my copy of "Alien" here - which was released quite a while back - is limited to Code 2. Everything gets coded, ancient or still on the big screen. This makes the "delay" argument look kinda silly.

        I mean, people are bitching about how their rights are being taken away and everything, but let's face it: How many of them are actually using imports?

        In Europe (somewhat more than 360 million people, I should point out), a lot of people. This is because there is a greater selection of DVDs in the U.S. than in Europe. Also, some DVDs are in German translation only ("Flash Gordon", the new version with Queen's music, is one of them). And third and most important, DVDs from different countries are censored in different ways. Europeans (especially Germans) take out the violence (the German version of "Fight Club" is somewhat of a joke), while the U.S. has this problem with nudity and sex ("Color of Night" is one that comes to mind).

        If you want to see the film the way the director intended, sooner or later you're going to have to import you stuff.

      • Region coding does make sense with DVDs. You see, there's often a long delay before US movies are released in other countries.

        It makes sense to the publisher, but only to them
        Intersstingly not all material produced in the US get's relased on region 1 DVD first. TV series can appear on DVD outside the US long before they are released in the US. e.g. on another thread recently US posters were complaining they they could only get S1 Buffy on region 1 DVD.

        Movies cost a fortune, and the main income is still what flows through the box office. Now if a movie is released on DVD before it appears in theaters (and that happens very often), both movie theaters and studios would suffer.

        There is nothing actually stopping a worldwide release of any movie. (Or for that matter making a "trial release" outside the US.)
      • How many of them are actually using imports? In 99% of all cases, the mod chip is used to play pirated games.

        Actually, in the case of the PS2 there are huge delays between a game's release in the US and other markets... Final Fantasy X, Metal Gear Solid 2 and Ico are all games I would play as imports, since I still can't buy them in the UK even though they came out in the US last year. I don't give a rat's arse about DVD playback, since I have a perfectly decent DVD player that doesn't require a game pad, and is already multi-region.

        Your argument that DVD imports stop the studio from arbitrarily delaying the release of movies is at best circular, by the way. Harry Potter and LOTR both show that studios can release simultaneously worldwide if they want to.
      • Movies cost a fortune, and the main income is still what flows through the box office. Now if a movie is released on DVD before it appears in theaters (and that happens very often), both movie theaters and studios would suffer.
        Fuck'em. If they can't adapt, they should become extinct.
    • Greed, greed and customer gouging is all that's behind it.
      On the face of it it's of course different, protection of the cinema's and associated industries.
      The fact these are not suffering in Region 1 where everything is NOT 6-12 months delayed is conveniently forgotten.
      And when it's possible to make a profit in India with Indian prices it's equally possible with a similar price in Europe, the US or Australia.
      • On the face of it it's of course different, protection of the cinema's and associated industries.
        The fact these are not suffering in Region 1 where everything is NOT 6-12 months delayed is conveniently forgotten.

        Actually region 1 customers can get to suffer too. But with television series rather than movies.

  • Let's hope it snowballs... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Aexia ( 517457 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @07:25PM (#2977288)
    Of course, Australia has to beat the region controls first. Let's assume they do.

    I'm guessing the remedy would be to require players sold in Australia to be capable of playing all regions.

    This would result in Australian DVD players being exported to other countries. This gets done already but usually they require mods or they're expensive. But if you have a legit source of "official" DVD players, I think they'll prove popular.

    US DVD Player manufacturers will either see this as a threat(because people will buy Aussie DVD players instead of American ones) or as an extra cost of business(because they'll have to effectively produce two different types of the same players) and start lobbying for the right to produce region-free players here as well.

    ...

    Then Sony brings down the wrath of the WTO and crushes this newly gained freedom in Australia and the fantasy comes to an end.
    • Uhh.. If You want a multi-region DVD player (any brand) in Finland, You go to any HiFi store and buy one. I would guess they sell multiregion players not just in HiFi stores, but in any consumer electronics store that sells DVD players at all.

      Eg. I went to a normal HiFi store, and told them I want a DVD player. I talked for a moment about what I really want and need, how much I'm willing to pay, and so on. I asked offhand that "this is of course multi region?" and got a yes for that. I actually had to wait for a few days for my player because the model I wanted had sold better than they had expected, but later that week I picked my player up and have been happy with it ever since.

      Costs more? Oh yes, they could've sold me an unmodded player for some 100€ less. However, as I knew I was buying mostly anime, which isn't available in Europe, it wasn't an option ever (OK, Japan is R2, but I don't know enough Japanese to not to need subtitles). I could've of course bought a standard US R1 player, but it would've cost me more (they're not generally available in Finland - modded one is cheaper).

      To date, I have some 280 discs of which three are PAL R2 (European), the rest are NTSC R1, multiregion, or unrestricted. And not a single problem with the player.
      • If You want a multi-region DVD player (any brand) in Finland, s/Finland/anywhere in the EU/ You go to any HiFi store and buy one. I would guess they sell multiregion players not just in HiFi stores, but in any consumer electronics store that sells DVD players at all.

        Costs more? Oh yes, they could've sold me an unmodded player for some 100 less.

        You didn't say how much you paid, most likely the R2 only one is discounted because hardly anyone would buy it otherwise. I assume that it wasn't a cheap one in the 150-200 euro range...

  • Australia, prepare for our wrath! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Given what the U.S. did to the Ukraine [slashdot.org] recently, I wouldn't be surprised if success by the ACCC would eventually find Australia up against sanctions. If the mod chips are allowed, then dvd region encoding will have a much easier time being banned or legally cracked in Australia. Any government that bans or allows cracks of region-encoding is circumventing the DMCA and even though the DMCA isn't international law you can be damn sure we're going to protect ourselves from terrorists like those in Australia. USA! USA! (Come on, chant with me...) Attica! Attica! I mean... USA! USA!
  • IMHO I think that once you pay several hundred dollars for a product it's yours and you're more than welcome to do anything to it you wish. If you feel the need to weld a lava lamp to the MB of the thing that's you're prerogative, ditto with a mod chip. Now, Motorola isn't required to offer warranty service on it after that, but if you're willing to risk the consequences you should be allowed to. Many industrialized nations are killing themselves slowly by over-lawing everything. To many laws do not a good country make.... Communications Decency Act anyone?

  • As altruistic as it seems... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Cruciform ( 42896 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @07:31PM (#2977316) Homepage
    ...we know the real reason behind it.

    The politicians can't get enough Hentai Dating Simulation games. Never underestimate the power of a school girl uniform and a 20 foot long penis-tentacle.
    • That might not be as ludicrous as it sounds. The only state in Australia where hardcore porn and fireworks are allowed legally is the Australian Capital Territory - a state solely created for housing Parliment House, politicians and civil servants.

  • Of course (Score:2, Informative)

    by Usekh ( 557680 )
    ..industry groups have been heavily pressuring the government to remove the current head of the ACCC (Dr Fells, who is rapidly becomming a hero of mine) and to limit their powers :P

    This guy has challenged the CD monopoly of studios within Australia, is currently going after the British publishing houses that have sewed our book market shut..and now region coding..

    Any wonder they are trying to remove him?

  • Consumer friendly policy (Score:4, Interesting)

    by bertok ( 226922 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @07:45PM (#2977365)
    The ACCC is extremely consumer-friendly. I think their theory is that as long as there is demand, there will be a supply, but the reverse isn't true. The drug trade exemplifies this: Even though it's illegal to sell drugs, the demand is there, so people do it. The ACCC is simply applying the same philosophy to more ordinary situations: Keep the consumers happy by making their purchases safe for them, and they're likely to continue being consumers.

    Over here, the government guarantees a "reasonable" minimum warranty on all purchased items, ignoring any "lets screw the customer" EULA-s or the like. I suspect that suing Microsoft for faulty software would succeed in Australia, but would fail in the US.

  • I wonder how long DVD region encoding would've lasted if it was the USofA that had to wait months for titles to be released (if at all)?

    I want my Hollywood revisionist history epics now, dammit!!!!
    • Like Futurama for instance?

      Europe has them, has for some time now. I'd love to have them too -- so I resorted to downloading the episodes until they become available to purchase here.

      Good quality too. I'd just mail (who exactly?) a cheque and call it even but then they'd probably try to arrest me or something.
    • I wonder how long DVD region encoding would've lasted if it was the USofA that had to wait months for titles to be released (if at all)?

      Actually in some cases years. Just not enough angry Futurama and Buffy fans in the US yet... (N.B. stakes, crossbows and swords would appear to be covered by the second ammendment...)
  • The problem I forsee is that Sony could stop selling Playstations in Austraila altogethor. If they think they might lose money over it, I'm sure they would seriously consider it.

  • Instead (Score:4, Informative)

    by t_allardyce ( 48447 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @08:23PM (#2977471) Journal
    Instead of making laws, why don't governments simply educate the general population as to how much they are getting ripped off by DVDs, Playstations and Microsoft. If I was in charge I would fund a series of adverts that showed people exactly how much profit these companies make, how cheap it really is to press a CD, and how production costs aren't that high when split over millions of customers.

    I would show them how they could live in a world where DVDs could be watched anywhere, where they weren't restricted as to when they could fast-forward, or copy, and how these massive companies bribe governments to restrict freedom. I would introduce them to the idea of operating systems other than Microsoft Windows(R) that were free and open so you couldn't hide malicious code in them.

    You would think people would know this already, but you would be surprised how many non-slashdot readers honestly think that it costs _that_much_ to make a DVD, even though the studio has already made a massive box-office profit. People actually don't realise how much they are being ripped off and controlled. They have been completely conditioned.

    Obviously I would probably be sued if I had these public-service-announcements made and showen, but thats how the world works.

  • Sometimes it seems Australia is the only place that actually has a good stance on the various region protection systems and copyrights. Shame they go and screw it all up with their censorship laws.

  • Anyone remember this [slashdot.org] article only a couple of weeks ago? More and more, courts from around the world are disagreeing with one another in regards to copyright issues and technology. Are DVDs software [slashdot.org] or film? [slashdot.org]

    This is only the beginning of a slew of court rulings and laws that will confict with each other and throw the already confused state of affairs into absolute chaos.

    And why would someone like me want to study this in grad school? Because it's f**king cool - that's why =)

    taco
  • may not be screwed out of all the PS2 games that they were on PSX. As an avid PSX RPG fan, I'd have been damn pissed if Final Fantasy Tactics was released late, slightly censored, and with new ugly text boxes.

    That got butchered in Europe too, only the japanese and american versions didn't. I wonder why?

  • Simple solution (Score:4, Funny)

    by tkrotchko ( 124118 ) on Friday February 08, 2002 @11:25PM (#2977975) Homepage
    Seriously.

    1) Sony should be allowed to region encode both disks and the PS2.

    2) Consumers should be allowed to bypass the region protection if they desire.

    That's maximum freedom for everybody. I don't understand the problem.
  • The ACCC is the only government-related organisation in Australia which actually works for the people. They however have a very difficult time with their work. I have talked to the ACCC on 2 occasions. Both times they rang me to discuss complaints I had emailed - one about Telstra & their monopolistic activities with DSL (they charge wholesalers MORE than their own residential customers), and the other about Microsoft. On both occasions I was asked for my opinions and ideas. I was also told that the ACCC very much has "it's hands tied" by legislation - especially in the Microsoft case - the ACCC apparently can't do much with international companies.
    Anyway, I fully support them and would gladly give them more power as they have proved to me in their actions and in conversation with me that they would not abuse their powers.
    But as for the rest of Australia's governments ... they are very much pro business, pro censorship, anti individual, anti refugee, anti Afghanistan, anti ........
    • I must agree Prof. Fells that funny old pointy headed legend is on a winner with the whole region encoding thing, BUT I do worry that he has too much unelected power. Consider the introduction of the GST (For non Aust , think VAT). He was given a 10 million fine capacity for anyone who raises prices. The prob is, at the time where I worked, everything DID raise prices. We where implicitly threatened with the 10mil deathbat because using a freemarket would interfere with fuking liberal party propoganda.

      Fuck the libs, and potentially fuck the upper borgoise. The whole GST thing really made (A) a lot of us workers and small business peple poorer and (B) forced the otherwise independant and excelent ACCC to be (ab)used as a govt propoganda ministry.

      Ah.... yeah I prob shouldnt post drunk, but as much as I dig the ACCC and Prof. Fells, sometimes one really needs to vote for power to stop it becoming mysterious. As the bald one says, (in a drunken paraphrase) Globalisation shouldnt be used against ppl.(remember I said paraphrase). Now buy me a beer. uck.
  • The Russians currently have a travel advisory warning Russian computer profesionals not to travel to the USA. [nytimes.com]

    I wonder if mod chips are ruled legal and designed/made/used in the AU if they will have to issue an advisory for Australian electrical engineers traveling to the USA or Japan...

    The next great war (if there is one) will be fought over intelectual property. I am begining to think the USA are not going to be the good guys..

    • The Russians currently have a travel advisory warning Russian computer profesionals not to travel to the USA.

      I wonder if mod chips are ruled legal and designed/made/used in the AU if they will have to issue an advisory for Australian electrical engineers traveling to the USA or Japan...

      The next great war (if there is one) will be fought over intelectual property. I am begining to think the USA are not going to be the good guys...

      Hmmm, looks like the employer's age-old problem of making sure no head-hunters know the identity of their key employees is gonna be easily solved, because employees won't want it known that they're working here or there so to avoid being arbitrarly detained in a country simply because that country doesn't like a product the company makes...
  • It's nice to see that someone somewhere has some sense about this. It's just a shame that the case didn't go the same way in the UK [theregister.co.uk]. Also, with regard to the comment that "they should make a chip that plays imports but not backups", I think that Channel Technology [channeltechnology.com] said that because of the way the PS2 works it was impossible to have one without the other.

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