Playstation 3 Gathering Components

briancnorton writes "Cnet has a story about how Sony has licensed some Rambus connection technology for the playstation 3. One technology is for chip-to-chip communications and the other for chip-to-RAM at over 100 Gbps. These are all parts of the 'Cell' processor system that is supposed to do over '1 trillion mathematical calculations per second.'"

Stock

[56]

I wonder if I should buy some rambus stock, it's at like 7 now.

Wait A Second..

[Pave Low]

Isn't Rambus supposed to be evil with all their patent business?

So will the principled slashdotters put their money with their mouths are and not buy a PS3?

Just curious.

next gen consoles

[tw1z]

I suppose this is the beginning of all the hype about the next gen consoles as the current gen sales have started to dry up (post x-mas). There are only visible bumps in sales as various online applications and "killer app" titles emerge (vice city, etc etc). The reality is that the next generation platform is going to be much more dependent on networking and in-home broadband capabilities than on highly touted chip stats. At present there are approximately 12 million PS2's in the US market and about 5 million Xboxs. Assuming no overlap (and we know there is some), that 17 million represents approximately 17% of US households having a latest generation console. My theory is this number is strictly capped by the broadband capabilities of homes. If the telco's/cableco's/wirelessco's don't get the ball rolling all the chip stats on earth aren't going to bust this market open. Even more interestingly, we once again find ourselves in a position where the latest technology innovations are going to be hindered by the binge/purge internet infrastructure roll-out of the late nineties...

Re:overkill?

[ShawnDoc]

Ever hear of HDTV? By the time the PS3 hits the street HDTV should have a major foothold in the market. I'm sure Microsoft and Nintendo's next gen systems will support the higher resolutions offered by HDTV, and Sony better too.

In addition, all this power isn't used just for resolution. The power will be used to render more polygons, process more complex AI, and shift around bigger and more detailed textures.

I won't be happy until GTA is rendered on the fly with graphics on par with the Final Fantasy movie!

Re:Rambus

[SoVeryWrong]

I'm not so sure price will be all that different. Nintendo has been using RAMBUS technology on their consoles for a while (way before Intel adopted it).

What I care about

[Dark Paladin]

While having super fast graphics/processors/etc is a very good thing (after all, it has to last at least 5 years before the PS4 comes out ;) ), here's my own wish list for the PS3:

1. Backwards compatible with the PSOne and PS2. Plenty of great games for those systems still out there, and I still like to play them.

2. Hard drive. This will be needed for the online games (which I don't care about) and add-ons (which I do). While there are games like RPG Maker 2 coming out which use the memory card, I'm more interested in seeing a PC like mod-community surround the PS3 - something we don't have now.

That, and I just don't like memory cards. I must have 20 PSOne memory cards (and most of those backed up to the PC through some third party units). I'd like to be able to swap save games with my friends just by connecting to them online.

3. Built in Ethernet/Modem: I'm assuming that come 2005 we'll still mostly be connecting via 56K modems in some areas, so let's assume that's going to be the case. I don't need a "$10 a month for a central line" - I don't play online that often, and I'd rather just have a few good friends who aren't assholes connect to my PS3 over the 'Net to play.

4. With the Ethernet/Modem, I want a CDDB system for my CD's to store them on the HDD.

5. And, of course, I want a Linux disk to be orderable with the system - just for those of us who like to tinker.

PS3 - Start of a new battle of consoles or PC's?

[greymond]

"Cell, which is expected to come out in late 2004 or early 2005"..."will have the ability to do north of 1 trillion mathematical calculations per second, roughly 100 times more than a single Pentium 4 chip running at 2.5GHz."

- First off I don't know if I like the fact that the word "north" was put in there - IMHO I think the wording could have been better.

Anyway my initial impression was "Cool in 1 -2 years there will be a new PS console as long as it stays backwards compatible like the PS2 I should be alright" but then I started thinking - with the Linux Kit for the PS2 and the ethernet adapter etc... the PS2 is really starting to get close to just becoming another "choice" as far as a pc (personal computer).

Example: John Doe doesn't own a computer. John Doe buys a PS2 with all the accessories - and can now surf the web, send email, code, run nix apps, and play video games - exactly what the average computer home user does (with the linux exception of course)

So if the PS3 is really going to be this "crazy fast machine of death to all other consoles" then would it surprise anyone if Sony started it's own line of Computers/Console crossovers? Where do you draw the line on what difines Computer and what defines Console with the wall beginning to crumble?

Re:Stock

[Anonymous Coward]

too slow [yahoo.com]

What I want to know... (ease of programming)

[jvmatthe]

...is if the PS3 will be easier to program than the PS2? My impression of the PSX history was that it did well because it was the 3dfx of consoles. That is, like Glide on PCs, the PSX development tools made tossing 3D games together fairly easy, relative to the Saturn and possibly even the N64. Naturally, those that wanted to squeeze the very most out of the system found the tricks (by getting "down to the metal", so to speak) that would pull off things that weren't necessarily possible through the standard dev tools. This satisfied a great number of developers, as they could get be as deep or as shallow with the graphics as they wanted.

Now, the PS2 comes out and everyone talks about how difficult it is to program for. Sure, we may be past that, but some devs definitely gave the impression of being turned off by Sony's new system and thought Sony had done a poor job the second time around in providing good dev tools. Naturally, the ability to get down and dirty with the hardware is still there, but perhaps those that didn't want to get too deep into the programming couldn't toss off games quite as easily as they had with the PSX. (Aside: Less shovelware might be a good thing for a console, come to think of it. But I digress...) I'd be interested to know if people still consider the PS2 to be a difficult system to work with.

Now, the PS3 is in the works and has this nebulous "cell" technology. If two processors were hard to work with in the PS2 (and Saturn and Jaguar) then how the hell can adding more be better, right? What I'd like to be hearing, if I were a game dev, is not that the system is going to be the most powerful thing to hit the industry but rather that it's powerful and easy to start programming for as soon as the dev kit arrives. If there is a high level system that allows you to just toss jobs as this group of cells and get them to do lots of dirty work for you without a lot of hand-holding, then that might very well be cool. But if every game programmer has to learn to corral a horde or CPUs into doing things in parallel, then it sounds like a losing prospect.

Ok, that's enough. Just wanted to get that out there. :^) Possibly off-topic, but this is a story about the PS3 tech...

Re:Linux Kit

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, the PS3 will actually be using Linux as it's ROM loader, so in addition to running games you can start it up in console mode.

Re:Rambus

[batkiwi]

The last time I upgraded my RAM for a console is when Turok2 came out for the N64, and I bought the 4mb ram upgrade kit, which, if I'm not mistaken (and I very well may be), was rambus ram.

Re:Rambus

[Jace of Fuse!]

which, if I'm not mistaken (and I very well may be), was rambus ram.

You are not mistaken. The N64 uses Rambus for both the main system memory and the 4 meg Expansion Pak.

Re:PS3 - Start of a new battle of consoles or PC's

[deft]

maybe someone can expand on this, but I believe for import and export purposes, the definition of game console and personal computer becomes a financial issue.

that may play into the decision to market it one way or another.

Re:What I care about

[Jace of Fuse!]

1. Backwards compatible with the PSOne and PS2.

Your wish has already been confirmed, though I can't provide links at the moment, do a google search. You'll find them.

2. Hard drive.

There are two sides to that coin, and the side in favor of the hard-drive has more disadvantages than the side that says it's just an expensive waste. I would PREFER a larger standard memory card than a hard drive. 64 meg or 128 meg. That would all but eliminate the need for dozens of memory cards or even the limitations on what you could store on even one that was dedicated to just a few games. As for swapping saves with a friend, it's actually EASIER with a memory card. Just take your card to a friend's house, copy. Bam. I have a PS2. I have many, many games. My PS2's 8 meg card is about half full, and I get to take it with me when I go to a friend's house which has been useful. My Xbox's hard-drive on the other hand is about fucking useless. Yes, it'll save my game on MY Xbox, but it doesn't do me any good when I go anywhere else.

A hard drive is a good thing. Big-Fat Memory cards are better. There is really no argument here.

3. Built in Ethernet/Modem

Oh yes, in an ideal world every machine would come with all the upgrades. It's anybody's guess what Sony will do when the issue of money comes into play. I guess on this one we'll just have to see.

4. With the Ethernet/Modem, I want a CDDB system for my CD's to store them on the HDD.

There's no reason why they couldn't do that right now using 64 or 128 meg memory cards (or larger), but a hard drive IS better suited for this task. Still, given that online capabilities are only going to become more common in consoles, there isn't any reason why CDDB support couldn't make it into even the current PS2s, and definately the PS3. Sony's feelings on the whole issue will be the major stumbling block.

5. And, of course, I want a Linux disk to be orderable with the system - just for those of us who like to tinker.

You already know about the Linux kit for the PS2, why would you think it wouldn't come along at least at some point on the PS3? I personally don't see Sony considering it a major issue, but I don't think you'll have to worry. Even if Sony doesn't do it, some crafty geeks probably will.

Sony is just a hype machine...

[Jace of Fuse!]

Anybody who remembers the hype from the PS2's pre-release will remember exactly how much pure FUD they spread. There will no doubt be PS2 defenders who are going to reply to me and defend every claim that Sony has made, but the fact is (and I've seen the real world comparisons) that the PS2 isn't half of what Sony promised. They made outrageous polygon claims and bandwidth promises, all of which were in better than ideal, and horribly unrealistic conditions, and they were assuming you weren't actually doing anything in the first place (rendering single, untextured, unshaded, flat surfaced polygons).

There will be no doubt the next Playstation will be leaps and bounds beyond the PS2. It will probably be more powerful than either the Gamecube or the XBox combined. That happens. It's Moores Law (which is ending, or so they say).

But the fact is no matter how good the PS3 will or will not be, Sony is going to feed us as much hype and fud as they can generate until we all have a PS3 sitting in front of us (disappointing us).

And I'm not just trying to flame Sony, because I like many of the games I have for my PS2, as well as the fact that I can play all of my PS1 games on it. But the truth is, Sony as a gaming company really hasn't got any more of a clue than Microsoft. They only know how to market something, and it doesn't matter what it is. It can be anything from a featureless AM/FM radio the size of a quarter or it can be a really stupid mechanical Dog. If the engineers make it, Sony's marketing division can sell it to you.

I predict the PS3 will be either black again, or silverish like the Sony Vvega televisions. I predict the controller will change very little (or not at all) though perhaps it will gain a couple of new useful features. Really the PS2 controller has reached a height of evolution that, love or or hate it, is hard to fault (unless it doesn't fit your well in your hands...) It will be a big leap in technology blah blah blah but anymore that isn't mattering the way it used to. I predict that the first year of games will be rushed sequals to PS2 games and shoveled versions of PC games or XBox/Gamecube games that outshined the PS2 versions (this year will be the year the GCN and XBox really show their technical superiority as the developers have come to grips with the systems).

Most importantly, you can expect television commercials, signs, radio spots, magazine spots (even in no-gaming mag-rags), you can expect web-banners, signs in malls, signs in fast-food-joints, and basically all of the crap we've become used to, only pushed to a level only Sony has the stomach to do.

Share and enjoy.

Backwards compatibility most likely planned..

[digital photo]

Hardly an accident I would imagine. Considering that the other game consoles weren't, at the time, marketing backwards compatibility and considering that Sony's money comes not from the consoles, but from game sales. They would have been stupid to not continue to milk their existing base of games and of future games to be made for the PS1 platform.

The PS1 cpu was also a RISC processor. This makes it an efficient IO controller as well as being a programmable one to boot.

Hardly an accident. Most likely planned strategy to garner continued income from the current base of software for the PS1.

As for Cell computing, it is essentially like a PVM or MPI system. Except with the kind of technology they are talking about for interconnects, it would be like comparing a homebuilt Beowulf cluster with 10mpbs connections to one which uses gigabit connections.

With Cell computing, they are just taking the PS2 scheme of using a PS1 chip as IO to the next level. Only more generalized. With on-chip integration, they would save on circuit board real estate as well as power consumption. The system would also be blazingly fast.

The only problem with multiple processors on the same chip die is the cost. :|

But basically, with Cell computing, they would be able to easily emulate the PS2 with special enhancements. Heck, they would be able to emulate mulitple PS2s so multiple people can play on multiple screens, all from the same box.

From their press releases, you would also be able to link up the various PS3's into one large computing unit.

That in my mind makes buying the PS3 a very desirable proposition. Owning more than one might actually be rather cool. >:)

PSOne at a good clip? PS2 long-life?

[Inoshiro]

Not really. A good clip is how well the GameCube is selling in Japan, usually around 75,000 units a week. The PSOne moves a couple thousand a week. The only people who buy a PSOne are people who want to give the kids a PS for a TV in the rec room, without taking away the PS2 they use for DVD playback.

The PS2 is nearing the end of its life. For people who only own one console, the PS2 still has some stuff coming out for it that they'll like, but for most of the rest of us the only things interesting on it are titles like Wild Arms 3 and Suikoden 3, which won't be released elsewhere. Things like Medal of Honour: Frontline are out on GameCube and Xbox with extras like multiplayer modes and better graphics. A lot of the titles for the PS2 just aren't as compelling when you have multiple consoles. Onimusha, Metal Gear, etc, are all showing up elsewhere. Why own it on the PS2 when you can have it better on a different console?

As for the exclusives themselves, there aren't too many. Enough for me to justify buying the console, but not too many in general (Devil May Cry series, Onimusha 2, a few PS2 RPGs, Mr. Mosquito).