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Games Entertainment

Neverwinter Nights Update 169

Posted by timothy from the never-ever-winter-nights dept.
nyquil superstar writes "Just thought everyone might like to know, there are a whole bunch of updates at Bioware's NWN Linux Client Page. Includes goodies like the timing of future releases and betas, how to install the Linux client and future(!) expansions, and updates on the movies and sound issues. The quick version: sound is in and they will release a Linux client before they integrate a movie player. Oh, and you'll need to download the game's resource data or use a Windows install, the CD is only good for the reg. key and Windows install. Good news though, because it sounds like it's getting close."
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Neverwinter Nights Update More

Neverwinter Nights Update

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  • Finally (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Mikelikus ( 212556 )
    Finally! It's getting closer to a great release and a milestone in linux gaming.

    Hopefully more companies will follow bioware's example. Give the distributors the windows games, give the community the linux patch ;)

    • Re:Finally (Score:3, Funny)

      by pclinger ( 114364 )

      Hopefully more companies will follow bioware's example.

      Follow their example by taking 3 years to put out the game? Yeah, great.

      NWN Coming To Linux [slashdot.org] -- August 8, 1999.

      • Re:Finally (Score:3, Insightful)

        by nehril ( 115874 )
        no kidding. given that multiplatform was a goal from the start of the project, how could they have messed this up so badly? the aurora toolset wont EVER be available for mac, since it was deemed too difficult to port (WAY after the fact).

        This must be a project management failure of immense proportions... how can anyone so totally miss a goal? Even a 10 minute discussion at project start to rule out unportable APIs, formats and approaches could have avoided such a mess. christ, even the game files were put onto the cd in a non-portable format, you have to download the data off the net or copy from a windows install?? geez.
      • As opposed to rushing crap out the door before it's finished? Yeah, that is great actually. The last thing we need is more unfinished, buggy games. Not to say that 3 years==a bug free game, but the more time spent debugging the better.

    • Yes, it officially marks how bad things are for Linux gaming. Game developers continue release second rate and late products for Linux when they bother to release anything at all. I predict that all this work for the Linux client will have been a waste because those who really wanted the game already got it for Windows.

      What would be a good milestone, and something that I have yet to see is a really good game being released to Linux first (or only for Linux). Don't get me wrong, there are some good games for Linux, but nothing that has Windows gamers contemplating installing RedHat just so they can play those games. That's what I'd like to see, but it'll have to be an independent developer that does this because none of the major vendors are going to take the chance on it.

      • Would unfortunately go out of business before getting to start on the Windows port of their game. While there are a large number of Linux users out there, there simply isn't the same number of Linux gamers as there are Windows Gamers.

        Game support under Linux is unfortunately sub-par. From the feel of games like Quake III to the lateness of games arriving, like NWN. It isn't always the developers fault. There just aren't all that many great and very powerful game development API kits available on Linux that are as robust as the ones available on Windows.

        Part of that is the lackluster Linux gaming community. If the Linux Gaming Community took it upon itself to buy the Linux versions of games released by Loki, instead of whining about the games Loki released, or simply whining about how no publishers are releasing Linux games. Well, Loki would probably still be in business (Even with the bad book-keeping I had read something about...) and perhaps a few more companies would be out there supporting Linux games and producing Linux games.

        If some company announced that they were releasing a game for Linux, even if it isn't something I generally like to play, I would buy it. Simply because I wish to see Linux move into the home entertainment realm, instead of conceding that segment of computing to Microsoft.

        • Chicken... Egg... (Score:3, Interesting)

          by sterno ( 16320 )
          The problem is that until there are good Linux games, Linux users aren't going to take the platform seriously. Until the Linux users take the platform seriously, there will be no developers working on games for it.

          Generally speaking people who have Linux also have a windows computer around. The deeper a person is into gaming the greater the chance that they'll have Windows as at least a dual-boot option. I know very few people who run Linux exclusively and none of them are heavy gamers.

          I've begun to think that the only thing that has the potential to bring the Linux platform into a better gaming position is a community effort to produce something truly unique for Linux. Independent developers, as you point out, cannot afford such a plan. Big developers aren't willing to take the risk. So in the end it may just need to be a collective of interested geeks hacking away. Of course that's how Linux came to be what it is, so I suppose that'd be an appropriate way for it to become a gaming platform.
      • Actually, NWN was hardly second-rate. It won best RPG of the year in most magazines, and was in close contention for best game of the year.

    • Re:Finally (Score:2, Insightful)

      by McCutheonIV ( 631184 )
      I pre-ordered the game when they still advertised that a Linux and Mac version was going to be included in the main release. I think what they did was unacceptable.

      They dangled the proverbial carrot in front of Linux users face to generate more sales. I had a friend who was completely new to Linux install Linux on his machine with the hopes of playing NWN on it. Sadly, the other day I had to instruct him how to get lilo out of his MBR. I know that is not Biowares fault, however, I did not appreciate the false advertising.

      Also, I don't see how releasing Linux binaries a year later helps "Linux gaming".

  • Also to ported to gnu/hurd (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 19, 2003 @08:37AM (#5112686)
    Once gnu/hurd actually supports a graphics card better than 80x25 text mode!

  • So what? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by VirexEye ( 572399 ) on Sunday January 19, 2003 @08:41AM (#5112692) Homepage
    If the linux nwn client is anything like the linux nwn server then I wouldn't even bother with it. The linux NWN dedicated server has given us major problems with stability and being the source of lag by not handeling encounters very well.

    I have been playing the NWN client on windows 2000 since last summer. It is stable (as much as nwn can be for it being nwn) and runs great for hours at a time. The win32 server also has stayed up for 12 hours at a time before needing a reboot (this is good for a nwn server).

    This might be a big step for linux gameing but it is still not that big of a deal. Anyone who is serious about NWN should just stick to the windows version like the rest of the serious gamers in the world.

    *hides from the flaming cows that are about to be shot at him*

    • Re:So what? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Vicegrip ( 82853 )
      "Anyone who is serious about NWN should just stick to the windows version like the rest of the serious gamers in the world."

      Anybody who was making a serious comment would wait until the release before making a comment about stability.

      I personally am seriously looking forward to this release.

    • Whatever.

      I've read the flames about the NWN linux server and while I'll admit, it has it's faults, it's no where near as bad as some people make it out to be. I suspect that a lot of the issues have to do with unstable boxes rather than the actual server itself.

      28842 pts/2 06:23:10 nwserver
      28843 pts/2 00:00:02 nwserver
      28844 pts/2 00:00:00 nwserver
      28845 pts/2 00:03:22 nwserver
      28846 pts/2 00:00:00 nwserver

      11:54am up 54 days, 18:44, 4 users, load average: 0.20, 0.17, 0.17

      That server has been up for several days with multiple reloads. 140+ vaulted users. Custom mod with quite a few scripts.

      And for the record, I'm a serious gamer.

  • Closer, but still vaporware *sigh* (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dWhisper ( 318846 ) on Sunday January 19, 2003 @08:47AM (#5112707) Homepage Journal
    As a Windows user, I can't wait for the Linux Client to come out for NWN. I want the added people out there, scripting modules, writing content and playing the game. God knows I'm sick of a bunch of little 733T hacker brats on there. Some games are fun, but I've been waiting for the chance to go up against some other people. Hopefully that isn't flameworthy, but if you've played it online, you know what I mean.

    This game is the one that will actually get Linux Gaming off the ground. It removes the need for an emulator or middle-run to get it working, and is one of the biggest games in recent memory. If we saw some of the other big guns, like Blizzard and EA doing this, there would be a lot more solid development on the gaming front.

    Since Bioware already will have the linux base installed, and the NWN engine is the core of their future RPG games, this looks well for the Linux community. Now if only they would start releasing the stuff out of box like this...
    • Oh, you mean like Quake 3 did?

    • Re:Closer, but still vaporware *sigh* (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      >As a Windows user, I can't wait for the Linux Client to
      >come out for NWN. I want the added people out there,
      >scripting modules, writing content and playing the game.

      Yeah, except the toolkit will NOT be released for Linux, just the game itself, so Linux people will most likely not contribute a whole lot to the NWN content community.

      • For now, but it will be a matter of the awareness out there. Half of the content can be done in game, through DM'ing and the such.

        And if there are enough people that demand it, there will be a Linux Mod for the toolset. That's what got the client in the first place, isn't it?


      • Yeah, except the toolkit will NOT be released for Linux, just the game itself, so Linux people will most likely not contribute a whole lot to the NWN content community.

        This is from fuzzy memory... so keep in mind that the details may be off a bit...

        I remember reading a blurb on the NWN site (could have been their forums) where a rep noted that the toolkit was written in Delphi. Borland had promised a Linux port and assured Bioware that a quick re-compile would be all that's required to "port" the toolkit to Linux. Of course - the promised Linux port was already far off-schedule at the time.

        It may be that Linux NWN fans will STILL have to turn to Wine(X) even after release of a native client.
    • You should try playing on better servers. Either meet a group ahead of time on Neverwinter Connections [neverwinte...ctions.com], or if you're playing PWs, then join something with RP-enforced in the PW Story section, using server-vault only.

      I think this game would have been a boon for linux gaming if they'd stuck to their plans to do simultaneous release. I'm not so sure now. Still, I like native linux gaming, and it does raise the bar for developers a bit. But in all seriousness, if you're a big fan, you could not wait until now to get it for linux. Thankfully they don't sell a "linux version" in box, so there won't be bogus weird sales figures.

      On a final note, there won't be any linux toolset, because of the environment they built theirs in.
    • Yes and despite many mistakes I hope Bioware do learn from them, so that there original idea of one CD to install on all major platforms comes to pass.

      Waiting this long on this game has done harm. Oh and we still need the toolset somehow.

      StarTux
    • No doubt. I'm doing a full Bard's Tale remake in Neverwinter Nights that is about finished, and I even have it running from time to time at nwn.tagor.com ...

      I'm sick of young brats that don't even REMEMBER the original Bard's Tale coming into the game and saying "This mod sucks, I can only go into the Wine Cellars... And I want to leave the city! Fuck this I'm leaving!"

      I've had to make a few changes, but mostly the game mimicks the story of the original Bard's Tale pretty closely, thus some knowledge of the game must be had in order to fully enjoy the mod. I can't explain that to "today's" breed of game players. They think they should just be able to go anywhere and do anything.

      I guess that's normal in whatever games they've been playing, but it isn't in any games I've been playing. Maybe they've confused Neverwinter Nights for a MMORPG or something. Whatever the case, those who knew Bard's Tale have thoroughly enjoyed the NWN conversion.

      Maybe the hordes of Linux users joining the game will bring some much needed fresh blood that can appreciate a good mod.

  • Yeah, so what? (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by RazzleDazzle ( 442937 )
    I have not ever played NWN. I was so excited back when I thought the Linux client was going to come shipped in the same package as the Windows and Mac. Fast forward a few years; I was so excited when the Linux client was actually going to come out what with the server out and Windows version out for a while now. Fast foward to present day; I don't really care, I am already sick of the game and I still have not even played it yet.

    What's your favorite game among these: DN Forever, MOO3, or NWN for Linux?

    Screw false hopes and eager marketing liars. I'd rather play the original side scrolling Duke Nukem; Master of Orion 1 was the best anyways; NWN, well I am already sick of it and maybe I will go back to the old TSR: Poolrad, Curse, etc.

  • .cab extractor for linux (Score:3, Informative)

    by H3g3m0n ( 642800 ) on Sunday January 19, 2003 @09:04AM (#5112735) Homepage Journal
    The Linux client would require you to have a Windows install or download all the games data because the files are in .cab format, there is however a .cab file extractor for linux. Would this work and why doesn't Bioware do somthing similar to the installer. It could be that .cab files were created by microsoft. The linux cam extractor is at http://www.kyz.uklinux.net/cabextract.php3

  • No movies isn't a loss (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Jugalator ( 259273 ) on Sunday January 19, 2003 @09:09AM (#5112745) Journal
    I can only say that if the Linux users are missing the movies until they get that part included, they aren't missing much. I didn't find the movies very necessary for the storyline. They pretty much only tell what happens as a consequence of the previous Chapter you completed, which isn't hard to figure out by yourself. Also, the movies consists of still pictures that fade in/out, are zoomed into, etc. You aren't exactly missing any movies of "Blizzard quality" [blizzard.com]. This was kind of an anticlimax to me since the *intro* movie is decent, but the inter-chapter movies are of a very different quality. :-/
    • the whole sp was disappointment..
      just hackslash-get-4-keys.. which would have been 'ok' if it was intresting enough otherwise(by cool movies, intresting storyline or.....)

    • Also, the movies consists of still pictures that fade in/out, are zoomed into, etc. You aren't exactly missing any movies of "Blizzard quality"

      Thank God! At last, a developer that isn't wasting time and money producing cheesy 3D cut-scenes that you see once (if hammering all the buttons doesn't skip them) and then forget instantly.

  • Bolt-On Programming (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Bios_Hakr ( 68586 ) <xptical@g3.14mail.com minus pi> on Sunday January 19, 2003 @09:12AM (#5112756)
    It really seems like Bioware is 'forest-gumping' their way through this project.

    I'm not a programmer, but this seems like such an easy task. They have the engine, the art, and the interfaces. The engine should be good to go. The movies should be re-encoded into another format that plays natively in Windows and Linux. The interface should use wrappers.

    Hell, even the wankers using WineX have been running NWN for a while.

    This should be a lesson for future projects. Don't try and bolt on functionality that was never intended. Either do it right (cross platform) from the start, or not at all.

    • Re:Bolt-On Programming (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I'm not a programmer

      Say no more...

    • I'm not a programmer, but this seems like such an easy task. They have the engine, the art, and the interfaces. The engine should be good to go.

      What makes you think the engine is good to go?
      Eventhough bioware used OpenGL to render their graphics, they also used DirectSound, DirectInput and DirectPlay. All which would need ported to linux alternatives. Also, they wrote some opengl extensions for various effects like their (kinda cool btw) shadowing system. Who are to say if they are completely multiplatform.

      The movies should be re-encoded into another format that plays natively in Windows and Linux. The interface should use wrappers..

      A. I have a feeling that its not the encoding of fileformats thats holding back port.

      B. Im a little confused about what you mean when you say "interfaces. If you mean the in-game interfaces, then they are most likely rendered by the engine(probertly by OpenGL, since they use a directx version without directdraw). If its the in-game interfaces youre talking about, they wont be a problem when the engine is ported.

      Hell, even the wankers using WineX have been running NWN for a while.

      I fail to see your point here, i've seen varoius of PC games under wine. Most of which arent being ported at all.

      What does the fact that people can run the windows binaries under emulation have to do with the development of the linux binaries?

      This should be a lesson for future projects. Don't try and bolt on functionality that was never intended. Either do it right (cross platform) from the start, or not at all.

      How should this truely crossplatform development work then? DirectSound, DirectInput and DirectPlay are standard compontents in most games today, which crossplatform APIs should replace them? SDL is nice, but is just as its name implies a "Simple DirectMedia Layer". And is simply not as feature rich as its DirectX counterpart(especially in the sound area).

      I think its important for us linux users to realise that currently, windows OWNS the PC gaming sector. They deliver what the gamecompaies want, a simple method of defining requirements for their game. The companies use DirectX and simply write on their box that you need a direct3d compatible gfx card, a directsound compatible soundcard etc etc. Also the windows/directx platform offers WAAAAAY more potential customers AND the option of porting very easily to the xbox.

      I think we should be glad that some companies do ports, since linux has pretty much nothing to offer to gamedeveloping companies execpt alot problems for a very little marked (in gaming terms).
      • iD software writes crossplatform from the very beginning. The fact of the matter is that it can be done. And what about this Miles Sound System? Granted I'd never heard of it before the NWN Linux Client page mentioned it, but I've been to their website [radgametools.com] and it looks like its competeing with DirectSound and it can compile on Linux (though it doesn't appear to be a fully supported platform.) And more importantly its what NWN is actually using. I think its a good example of the non-Microsoft propiertary stuff that is/can be ported to Linux and be a real benefit for companies wanting to port to Linux.

        Granted this sort of issue:
        "Support for the wheel varies on different distributions of Linux. " (from the NWN Linux Client page)
        is I imagine a real headache for developers and reiterates the importance of standardization. Of course, to some extent the commericial distros don't what too much standardization, because obviously each distros uniqueness is what makes it marketable. At the same time they do want standardization as its good for their consumers. But this is getting into another issue entirely.

      • Re: DIrectPlay (Score:3, Interesting)

        by HalfFlat ( 121672 )

        [...] and DirectPlay are standard compontents in most games today, which crossplatform APIs should replace them?
        I can only presume that DirectPlay has improved in the last 4 years, but in 1998-1999 I can say with first hand experience, implementing your game's networking from scratch using (cross-platform, pretty much standard) BSD sockets over UDP/TCP was going to be faster to code, more stable, and easier to code.

        At that time, all the features promised by DirectPlay, such as master host failover, reliable datagrams, etc. simply were missing or did not work in catastrophic ways (like crashing Windows 98 hard, for example.) At the end of the day, one ended up writing all the code one would for a sockets implementation, but with the added feature of not being able to communicate with any non-Windows machine.

        DirectPlay then was a broken 'solution' in search of a problem. Sadly many developers (including ourselves at the time!) were suckered in, and used it regardless.

        Given that NWN was supposed to be cross-platform, I can only presume that they did not use DirectPlay for their networking. Even if it were not meant to be cross-platform, it probably would have been a good idea to steer clear of DirectPlay.

    • Re:Bolt-On Programming (Score:3, Interesting)

      by ashkar ( 319969 )
      *sigh* people really should try reading the links in the stories before posting.

      i've been following the linux client since that page was put up, and i think that bioware has done a fantastic job of updating the community on what's going on with development. most companies just say it's done when it's done, stop bothering us. go back and read the page. there are updates almost every week.

      if you knew anything about linux development, you would know that there are a LOT more configurations you have to cater to compared to windows where worst case you have a rouge driver that needs updating. also, they didn't know there was a linux version of the sound engine they used which admittedly sounds like a huge fuck up. i'm not quite sure where the blame for that lies.

      bioware is setting a great example for other large development houses. they listen to their community, ignore the whining, tell us what's going on, and get shit done. we should all be thankful.

      good job bioware
    • Well from some postings to the ac thread they did try, unfortuantly some third parties failed to deliver. One case I am thinking of would be Borland who at the time (we're talking 2 or 3 years ago) who said a C++ enabledversion would be soon available for Linux.

      Hopefully next time around they will get it right :).

      StarTux

  • the update says (Score:4, Funny)

    by EvilSmile ( 547095 ) on Sunday January 19, 2003 @09:15AM (#5112759)
    "You will have to purchase a copy of the game to get a valid Neverwinter Nights CD-Key. Of course, with this purchase you also get a lovely Neverwinter Nights mapkin, a spiral-bound game manual, and three plastic-coated aluminum-reinforced W1nd0z3 brand coasters." Never expected that from the bioware guys =] but a nice touch all the same

  • NWN no good for me because I lack self-control... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by weave ( 48069 ) on Sunday January 19, 2003 @09:38AM (#5112805) Journal
    I had high hopes for NWN and Dungeon Seige to break me of my Diablo 2 habit, but it hasn't happened (much to my chagrin). You see, I lack self-control. Soon as I hear about a cheat code to give me unlimited XP, gold, weapons, goodies, etc, I can't help but use it.

    A battle.net hosted d2 world (even with the occasional cheating bugs, which I don't persue at least), is far more challenging. Running a hardcore character that you have had for months and gone through hell with (puns intended) just has far more of a rush and satisfaction (for me at least). If my character dies, it's permanent, and I've suffered a real loss. Death has meaning, and death sucks. It's great!

    That must be it, because why else do I waste so much time on an aging game, running the same quests and acts over and over and over again... I don't get it personally, and I guess neither did those two Asians that dropped dead after playing D2 non-stop for more than a day.

    (At least I understand my condition well enough to stay away from worlds where I have to pay to play, like Evercrack. If battle.net charged, that would finally cure me....)

    • There are server-vault only servers, so you can't give yourself unlimited XP, gold, weapons, or anything else. If you have enough self-control to stay on those servers then that would seem to fit your requirements.
    • That's kindof funny, as part of the reason I stopped playing hardcore was because of all the twinks running around PK'ing with their duped items.

      I really did enjoy playing with perma-death (and I also enjoyed those few text muds which had that feature), and as you say, it's a great feeling of accomplishment to have a powerful character whom you've guided up through levels over days or weeks of play.

      It sucks when you manage to survive playing against some of the nastiest things in the game through your own skill, and then some joker nails you with the hydra trick because you had a moment of weakness and were nice enough to open a portal when they asked.

      When I play now, it's only to see if any interesting things drop (the maps aren't random enough to be interesting), or to socialize with others I know who also play.

      NWN has FAR more potential, provided the community support remains strong. What I hope Bioware realizes is that the strength of the game is not in the client, but in the toolset. Their story won't sell it, nor will a linux client. What will keep this thing making money for years to come is the flexibility of the toolset. Allowing the users to create their own stories, and doing so with as little fuss as possible will keep things fresh.

      And yes, you can make perma-death in NWN too with the right scripting. I really hope they consider porting the toolset to linux, and perhaps (if nobody has done it yet) making a small GTK wrapper for the server as well. *I* like the command line, but many people would rather have a poity-click way to poke at things.

  • At last (Score:5, Informative)

    by Tyreth ( 523822 ) on Sunday January 19, 2003 @09:51AM (#5112831)
    This is the kind of in-depth update we have been waiting for. Bioware I think is learning that detailed information into the development process is actually appealing to the Linux community, whereas for windows users it's typically been vague like alpha, beta, almost gold, etc.

    It's been interesting that they have been watching the Linux threads a bit, and our input has been helping. Eg, when they were talking about mouse issues, we informed them that it is up to the distribution/xfree configuration to set up a mouse properly, and they could safely ignore that within NWN.

    I hope from here that Bioware development for Linux will grow to work more hand in hand with the willing and eager Linux community, rather than the little information they previously gave. A progression from silence to this latest release has been clear. Perhaps if they decide to port the toolset too they will be even more open and we'll be able to help them quicker!

    Either way, I can't wait to play this game under Linux.

    And for those who don't know - they previously anounced that Bink (movies) and Miles (sound) were available for Linux when they thought they weren't. They later discovered there was no Bink for Linux, and that is why movies don't work.

    • Re:At last (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Please mod the parent of this post +3 Funny, the reason follows

      It's been interesting that they have been watching the Linux threads a bit, and our input has been helping. Eg, when they were talking about mouse issues, we informed them that it is up to the distribution/xfree configuration to set up a mouse properly, and they could safely ignore that within NWN.

      So, basicly it boils down to this. They had a bunch of incompetent losers, gave them something to do, and gave them something they knew Jack-sh*t about : linux.

      Come on... Mouse issues... That's the best joke I heard since Transmeta claimed to have emulated the Sims using WineX, and you only had to BUY the game again. What kind of an X programmer doesn't have a bloody clue how to use a mouse in X? A really bad one.

      You are telling me, that after nearly a year, these people didn't figure out how to use a mouse. Have they gotten to the part on setting up ethernet cards yet in that big ol' Redhat manual?

      Oh I can hear it now:
      Applicant: "I was a bioware programmer and I have experience in using Linux"
      Interviewer: "What is your area of expertise?"
      Applicant: "Setting up mice"
      Interviewer: "Next!"

      That's about as bad as the last guy who worked at the company I worked for:
      Me: "So, you say you've got some experience in linux. Do you know how to set up a firewall?"
      Other Guy: "No"
      Me: "We've got some interesting manuals on the network if you're intrested, and you'll find enough info on the Net... Do you know how to set up a mailserver"
      Other Guy: "No"
      Me: "Well, we're mostly into qmail here, so you can check out some of the setups. I'll send you a couple of bookmarks if you like. What's your favourite distribution?"
      Other Guy: "I tried Redhat once, but I couldn't figure it out after it was installed."
      Me: "Ooookaaaay... And what position were you hired for?"
      Other Guy: "Senior Network Engineer"

      Needless to say, he didn't survive his testing period.

      • Hahaha :) Couldn't even figure out RedHat??

        Anyway, yes, the mouse issue was a bit silly, but I didn't really feel like mocking Bioware at the time. Read [bioware.com] the Oct 25th and Nov 1st updates for details on the mouse story. We basically told them it was up to the individual, not NWN, to configure the mousewheel. I'll admit it was a bit disturbing that they didn't do this - which is why I consider it more important that they are open with their development process so we can help them.

        To me it sounds like they've got some of their old employees who've been using linux a little in their spare time, who have now said that they think they could code a Linux version. And so they begin their first Linux project. Just a guess, of course.

  • Sorry to sound negative about this but (Score:1, Troll)

    by Anonymous Coward

    It took them how long? How much deceit did we go through? (Come on, you don't expect me to believe that Miles didn't tell Bioware they had a linux version, and then told an angry mob that they did have one) This entire Neverwinternights Linux Fairytale boils down to one thing, YOU HAVE BEEN DECEIVED BY A CLEVER MARKETING STRATEGY, and now Bioware is afraid of the pending "I want my money back"-claims.

    IMHO, Bioware never intended a linux client to exist from the start. And they're making one now, cursing every linux geek that bought the game. And I think it'll be a LONG while before Bioware ever makes a linux game again.

    Face it, they made choices in design that were never intended for multiplatform development: Miles, Bink,...

    Personally I regret buying the game. It sucked compared to the other AD&D based games, and the amount of tinkering needed around the bad design (RecomputeStaticLighting() ring a bell?) to get a moderatly realistic campaign set up... Grmpf... And let's not mention the fact that the toolkit won't be ported. whoops, mentioned it

    Yes, you can say I'm spiteful, and you can say I'm bitter. Go ahead. It won't change the facts.

    • Impressively paranoid, but please look at what they do before claiming it was all a farce. So far they've provided many screenshots and staked their company's reputation on Linux and Mac ports, as well as put up with the community screaming for blood on their message forum. Not to mention the beta, but I guess we'll just have to wait before we see what's going on with that.

      As for saying it's a marketing strategy, that's such a load of bull... The Linux demographic is small. Very small. If anything they'd be losing money paying their developers to stay back and work on the Linux port rather than simply moving on to their next Windows release (Please let it be Shattered Steel 2). Bioware is probably just doing the port for the same reason Epic ported Unreal Tournament 2003--They like Linux and happen to have programmers willing to work on the project.

      As for the mistake about Bink and Miles, I'll buy it though I wish they mentioned it was Bink and Miles before hand. Hours after they posted that update, none other than Sam Lantinga himself pointed out [bioware.com] that at least Miles worked in Linux.

  • Mac (Score:4, Informative)

    by xpccx ( 247431 ) on Sunday January 19, 2003 @10:22AM (#5112913)
    This [bioware.com] forum thread started by the product manager at MacSoft gives some info on the Mac port. It sounds like the client is just about done but unfortunately the Aurora Toolset will NOT be ported. Evidently porting the code is much more difficult than they had originally anticipated.

    I'm a little disappointed but it will be nice to finally be able to play the game.

  • Do games require a window manager/desktop environment to run on?

    I always thought games would be run stand-alone on an X-server.
    Has anybody run a game like this, or do they require a wm?

    • You don't necessarily need a window manager. If you'd like to run _just_ a game, then edit your ~/.xinitrc so that the only line in it is game's executable. For example, to run only quake3, I'd edit ~/.xinitrc to look like:

      quake3

      No wm, nothing else. Then, when X starts, assuming it's using ~/.xinitrc, it will only run what's listed there -- in this case, just quake3.

      • Yes, I know that.
        I was just wondering because every screenshot seems to be running under kde.
        Just thought the game relied on something provided by desktop environments and/or window managers.
        Or maybe its just done so to show and say "Look! its Linux!"

  • a message to bioware... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    too little, too late
  • _______________________________________________
    Bioware came out of the closet to say:
    You will have to purchase a copy of the game to get a valid Neverwinter Nights CD-Key. Of course, with this purchase you also get a lovely Neverwinter Nights mapkin, a spiral-bound game manual, and three plastic-coated aluminum-reinforced W1nd0z3 brand coasters.

    Ok, I giggled.

  • Wait a sec. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Martigan80 ( 305400 ) on Sunday January 19, 2003 @11:09AM (#5113048) Journal
    Oh, and you'll need to download the game's resource data or use a Windows install, the CD is only good for the reg. key

    Well the reg key is on the book, so if that's the only reason to buy it then Bioware is about to flop on this. This just sounds to a regular person like you have to d/l about two disks worth of stuff-if you only use linux, or just do a mass amount of file moving from one partition to the other. Plus some extra little tweaks. This sounds very messy and poorly thought out. At least UT2k3 was simple, as was quake3, RtCW, and I am sure Doom III will be easy too. So what in the heck was the set back? Poor management that just thought at the last moment that it would be "kewl" to make it for the top three OS's out there? I bought the game and run it on Windows, if I have to go through a bunch of install crap to get it running under Linux, then I'
    ll just keep it on windows. Don't give me that crap that I'm not supporting Linux game noise. I do support it but if I have to copy this, tweak that, and download this; then I would rather keep playing the version I have on Windows that is already updated, besides I can use the tools set-unlike Linux where you have to tweak wine or winex a few twists to get it running.

    • Actually, the official RtCW Linux install doesn't extract any files from the CD. Tuxgames [tuxgames.com] created a CD with a preconfigured Wine to install the needed files from the CD.

      It's been a while since I installed Quake3, but IIRC you needed to manually copy the game data files to your installation dir.

      UT2k3 was the more direct install. Put the 3rd CD in, run setup.run, enjoy (with the correct hardware).

      • It's been a while since I installed Quake3

        The Linux Quake3 CD had an installer, but also instructions for installing the game yourself.
    • Yes it is messy, but kind of like RTCW (although Tuxgames made that far easier) where you needed to get the files from the CD via other means.

      I hope Bioware learn as its too late as the discs were pressed quite some time ago.

      Poorly though out? Yes. Lets hope they learn and don't repeat the same mistakes for their next game.

      StarTux
    • What exactly do you want them to do at this point - replace your CD?
  • It was the biggest flop in 5 years. So much buildup, so much hype, and so dull. It was just as bad as Black and White, and that game recieved half the attention that NWN did before release.
    • Troll.

      The game was designed to be the most accurate computer game that follows the D&D 3rd edition rules. If you already know D&D and have all the books and know the rules, it comes pretty damn close, and gets closer with every patch release. To say that it was dull just simply means that you think D&D is dull, which is fine but does not reflect the opinion of NWN's target audience.

  • Extracting data (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jensend ( 71114 ) on Sunday January 19, 2003 @11:25AM (#5113107)
    They really ought to be able to find programs which extract the data off the CDs. I don't know what the format is, but there's a good chance it's installshield or some such. i5comp and i6comp, which are installshield extractors, come with source and run under wine. hwun would do the same for WISE, and of course there's cabextract [uklinux.net] for the Microsoft .cab formats.

    I also think that if they're going to distribute a version that doesn't yet have Bink working (movie player), they ought to call it a beta, not a release version.

  • Too little, too late (Score:4, Insightful)

    by stevens ( 84346 ) on Sunday January 19, 2003 @11:52AM (#5113197) Homepage

    For multiplayer games like this, I like to play along with my gaming friends. They all bought NWN when it came out, played the hell out of it, and now they don't play it so often. So if I buy it now, I'm playing alone.

    Even though the game looks promising, I'll give it a miss.

  • That's kinda sucky.. The main reason I'd want to get this is so me and my far flung rpg buddies could play custom campaigns, and now I won't get to build any..

    Oh well...

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