Deathmatch for Dollars? 298
quixado writes "You Play Games is an online wager service where you can bet and earn money for each kill or injury to opponents. You can even cap how much money you can lose in a 24 hour period. Return to Castle Wolfenstein is the first title. The press release can be found here. More info here too. And they said that spending days on end playing first person shooters wouldn't pay off..."
Cheaters? (Score:5, Insightful)
custom client (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:custom client (Score:5, Informative)
"Wolfenstein will be required to have the latest version of Even Balance's PunkBuster Anti-Cheat software on their systems in order to compete."
Re:custom client (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:custom client (Score:2, Interesting)
the new version may contains more pattenrs for "cheater program", just like virus patterns, or only come with a new package format.
foundationally, everything can be cracked. but you have to catch up with the newest PB release, every time, otherwise, chances are good that you will be detected as "cheater". and you know it's not a good thing when you ar
Re:custom client (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:custom client (Score:5, Informative)
A custom binary like seti@home perhaps?
that didnt stop the cheaters [wired.com] of seti
disassembling/RE gets a lot more serious when cash is involved.
Re:custom client (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cheaters? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cheaters? (Score:2)
Re:Cheaters? (Score:4, Interesting)
This model was discarded in favour of the now-popular server-client model because latency (not bandwidth) was too high.
Anyone that played Quake 1.01-1.09 on the 'net over a modem can tell you how horrible latency was even with this 'leap forward' in network gaming.
Nowadays, the client & server use prediction & syncing to give the appearance of smooth play.
Unfortunately, the amount of bandwith won't compensate for the latency, and I doubt that anything short of a direct, raw connection to the 'server' will allow a 'video only' feed.
Re:Cheaters? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Cheaters? (Score:5, Interesting)
Not always perfect, but cheaters *do* tend to be greedy, and would be obvious to spot.
Re:Cheaters? (Score:2)
Re:Cheaters? (Score:2)
Re:Cheaters? (Score:2)
streaky (Score:4, Insightful)
I remember one incident in particular. I was using the P90, which has the highest rate of fire and therefore sprays pretty wildly. It isn't used much because its hard to hit anything out past 15 feet. But the wild spray pattern is predictable; the muzzle rises up and then waves side to side in a T pattern. If you encounter someone 5 to 12 feet away from you and aim around their bellybutton, you can be off right or left but one of the 3rd-6th bullets will hit them in the head. It is a legal "trick" of limited use. So, back to the incident, I was using the P90 and kept encountering the same 1-3 guys in the same hallway at the same "sweet-spot" range, with the same results. After the 3rd time I head-shot the same guy, he just came unglued. He was absolutely furious and swore on his life that I was using an aim-bot, and kept asking everyone to kick me saying he had "proof" I was cheating. They stopping trying to come through that hallway, which meant I would run into people who were not in the "sweet spot" so I stopped getting head-shots, which our man said further proved I had been using an aim-bot and had now turned it off.
To any sort of statistical analysis, it would look like cheating whenever an "average" player goes off on a tear.
I think the only real way to stop cheating is to control the computers, physically. Punkbuster like systems do help, but they don't stop it completely. There is no way I would ever wager money against strangers over the internet on video games.
Re:FPS streaks. (Score:2)
Unfortunately you got the munchies after getting the first twenty kills. When you hit 110 you were back in the cafeteria.
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Very difficult to distinguish good from cheating (Score:2)
Oh yeah, tha
Re:Cheaters? (Score:3, Interesting)
i asked him if he's even "thinking" when he's playing.
"nope" he says.
Solving minesweeper follows very clear and repeatable patterns. After you have memorized them, there is no need to figure them out a second time. There are many skills of this variety that do not require concentration once they are mastered. The most obvious group of skills of thi
Easy (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Cheaters? (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously... it wouldn't even be a game if a normal person tried to play online, especially if it becomes possible to earn a subsistance wage via deathmatch. We'll just end up with a whole bunch of dirty-ass mofos sitting at home, making cash by killing normal people who made the mistake of thinking it might be fun.
Re:Cheaters? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Cheaters? (Score:2)
Just cheat and wait for the black guys knocking on your door.
Re:Cheaters? (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem isn't just Unreal Tournament either, I've used bots in Quake 2, Quake 3, and CounterStrike. The funny part is, CounterStrike probably has some of the best hack protection of any of the games, and it's spawned probably the best bots of all the games. While the Q2 bot I used was the most accurate, the CS bot had a sick amount of features.
This is the main problem with online gaming, and why arcades could make a comeback. There is just no real way to make sure the person on the other side isn't cheating. Plus most games vendors don't put too much effort into protecting and patching cheats. It is usually the community, so it turns into amature hour.
I personally play a lot of online games. I love the idea of winning money for them, but I don't see it lasting very long.
I wonder though, now if I code my own aimbot for a game they "pay you to play" could I be put in jail for fraud?
-NoClanNeeded
Re:Cheaters? (Score:2)
Where is the skill behind your game if you use an aimbot? What makes it fun for you to play? Is it just the design of the Aimbot that is fun for you?I can understand that, but then, why not just design it and play around with it a bit and not release it?
What is the motivation for using an Aimbot in a game that has no prize beyond recognition of skill? If you are being recognized for skill you don't have doesn't that make the whole excersise pointless?
Kintanon
Re:Hey LOSER.... (Score:2)
If you're so proud of your coding prowess, show your face...let us know who you are, and your online moniker. And if you did play for money using any kind of cheat, I'd HOPE that you'd be tried for fraud. People like you make online gaming a miserable experience for a great many honest players. Get a life. Play honestly, or don't play at all.
Re:Read the article... (Score:2)
Re:Read the article... (Score:2)
--jeff++
Re:Cheaters? (Score:2)
Deathmatch, the profession (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Deathmatch, the profession (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't see why not. If big dumb dudes can make millions by tossing a ball around a few hours a week, I don't see why a gamer shouldn't be able to make at least a few dollars by using his skills. 3D accelerator card makers may even pick a few of the best players to help promote their products.
Re:Deathmatch, the profession (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Deathmatch, the profession (Score:2)
Re:Deathmatch, the profession (Score:3, Insightful)
What? You mean I have to practice 20-30 hours a week for 15 years? You mean I press my body towards extremes of physical conditioning? You mean I have to not sit on my ass drinking Mountain Dew and Doritos?
Suddenly I don't feel so smug and superior.
Re:Deathmatch, the profession (Score:3, Insightful)
What? You mean I have to practice 20-30 hours a week for 15 years? You mean I press my body towards extremes of physical conditioning? You mean I have to not sit on my ass drinking Mountain Dew and Doritos?
True. However, you can make a living playing poker or bridge for money, if you're good enough. And a fair amount hustling pool or backgammon.
I don't see much of a difference there.
Re:Deathmatch, the profession (Score:3, Insightful)
This is gambling - a zero sum game where only the best of the best make any real money.
It's more comparable to playing pool for money. You might win a few and loose a few, but only the best will make serious $. Maybe we will see frag sharking? "I lost last game, one more game... triple the stakes"
Re:Deathmatch, the profession (Score:2)
Whenever there is a gambling "house", you can bet that the odds are set up so that they always come out on top. The pool analogy is better; then its mano-a-mano with no casa at all....
Who will watch? (Score:2)
I don't think people would watch an Unreal game simply because they cannot comprehend that a person is actually doing anything, all they see is a computer screen with some guy
Re:Who will watch? (Score:2)
You bet your money and they let you play. When you leave the game you can "cash out" with the amount you receive being deternined by how well you did in the game.
Re:Deathmatch, the profession (Score:2)
How many people would pay to watch you use a rail gun?
Re:Deathmatch, the profession (Score:2)
Re:Deathmatch, the profession (Score:2, Interesting)
And they translate to real life as well. I have found repeatedly that having gamer speed (giving it a name) has helped me repeatedly in real life against my sensei in karate, who was a nationally ranked karate competitor. Of course his
Gaming for $$$, old news. (Score:3, Interesting)
You're in luck. (Score:2)
The other main road course games are Grand Prix Legends (Papyrus), F1 2002 (EA) and Sports Car GT (ISI). These games are not as rich as Papyrus' multiplayer componentry, but they
Re:You're in luck. (Score:2)
Yeah, the GPL [gnu.org] does appeal to me. Free software and all, you know?
Well... (Score:2, Funny)
I can see it now... (Score:4, Funny)
Fire your boss (Score:2)
expected results (Score:5, Interesting)
I only have two questions now:
1) What legal implications will this bring about? Think about it: parents wanted to sue Wizards of the Coast and Nintendo because they thought Pokemon cards were a form of gambling.
2) Approximately how long until I lose (note correct usage of the word) my last $5?
Re:expected results (Score:4, Informative)
Re:expected results (Score:2)
Games exist on a continuum from pure chance to pure skill. At the pure chance end, people play things like the lottery and slot machines. Players with skill fare a little better at blackjack and poker, but are still considered gamblers by the U.S. government. Scrabble tournaments are probably not considered gambling, though an element of chanc
Re:expected results (Score:2)
Schweet (Score:2)
Heh, I can so see some great geek fun in this...but you guys of course know that the violent videogame media diatribe is going to become the violent video links to abusive gambling diatribe, right?
Oh God, imagine if we were to gamble on, say, Starcraft...he who gets Zerg as the chosen race will receive overwhelming odds from the bookie's.
Good idea waiting to happen (Score:2, Interesting)
RE: The dark side of gaming. (Score:2, Funny)
I'd love to have gotten some $$ from my early freshmen motoracer days.
Going to go play RTCW. :)
Not the first (Score:5, Informative)
My biggest problem with online games (Score:4, Insightful)
But then I discovered that what Dave Barry once said was true:
On the Internet, everybody is only twelve years old.
For a time, I played some good old Capture The Flag Quake - loved that game. But too many "Hey, motherfucker DarkPaladin! You're gay!" when you start doing well, or "Fucking cheat!" when you kill somebody, etc, etc, etc.
I mean - that's just no fun. Most people online are assholes - they live in the games like Everquest, Ultima Online, Unreal Tournament - all of them. If I play games these days, its only with either myself or people that I know.
Sadly, the "average person" is the biggest ruining factor for online gaming. Then again, after watching my teenage nephews play games, it's almost made me want to ban anybody under the "mental" age of 18 from playing games. At least until they learn to RTFM. (That's another subject for another day.)
Re:My biggest problem with online games (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:My biggest problem with online games (Score:2)
I'll add to this: (Score:2)
But their participation in team games is extremely lacking and very pitiful. It's like they don't really give a fuck about what the objectives are, and what needs to be done.
With CTF, I'd be yelling "asshole! you're going the wrong way!!". But with the more complex team games like RTCW and BF1492, they ARE COMPLETE MORONS!
They don't know the objectives.
They don't know what
Re:My biggest problem with online games (Score:2)
Stress levels rising (Score:5, Funny)
More OMG!1!!!!111 Yuo h4x0r!1!!!!1111 followed by ping floods no doubt.
Back in the boom... (Score:2)
Do I really need to say the company folded before the game was e
Link to gambling? (Score:5, Funny)
When I lose playing blackjack at a casino, the dealer doesn' call me a 'n3wbi3 f4g' and certainly doesn't taunt me to play another game.
I forsee a sharp rise in ping excuses.
Pro Gaming (Score:4, Interesting)
The game i played got bogged down with cheating so they couldnt run any more for money games because cheating was so bad, but it was fun while it lasted.
Re:Pro Gaming (Score:2)
I wonder when kids will start dropping out of college to go pro...
"Well Jim, as a redshirt freshman he wow'ed us with his fragging ability and he would've gone 1st round last year if it wasn't for that dislocated thumb. After rehab he seems to perform at 110%, but once you've had such a devistating injury, you're never the same."
Re:Pro Gaming (Score:2)
and ironically, (Score:2)
sorry bro
-fren
I'd pay to see... (Score:2)
Good Idea but ... (Score:2, Interesting)
Fantastic idea, but as many have pointed out - cheating will be its downfall.
People cheat when there is nothing but pride involved in games (fuck me, people even cheat in Soldat [soldat.prv.pl]), imagine the lunacy that would ensue when money was involved - because money, unlike pride, is somewhat harder to come by.
I can, however, see this as a fantastic idea for LAN games, amongst friends - sure, you can arrange bets outside of the game itself - but who referees in such games? No doubt arguments would follow, as peo
A question (Score:2)
Doesn't the introduction of a game like this just seem even a *tad* surreal, especially in light of the war going on right now on our TV screens and abso-fucking-lutely for real in Iraq?
Go online and place bets with other players regarding whose digital alter-ego will blast the other one
Unless they can safeguard against cheating (Score:2)
I live in vegas. I will go and gamble sometimes, because it is fun, and I have a chance of winning. I'll play $1 blackjack for a few hours, end $5 up or down, I'll have free alcohol while I'm playing, and I'll be with my friends. I'm not about to go write a check to the casino if I *know* I have no chance of winning. Especially if there was the ability of me to play the game w/o losing money, that is, just play the online game on a server where its not for money. If I
I don't see this lasting, at least not with RTCW.. (Score:5, Interesting)
YPG servers are based out of the Netherlands Antilles, a haven for money laundering, major drug trafficking, and organized crime. A major problem for the Antilles at the moment is illegal internet gambling operations. Hosting servers there should raise suspicion immediately. Hell, doing almost anything in the Antilles should raise suspicion...
Other major problems -- RTCW does not have a FFA game mode, only team oriented game modes. This fits very poorly into a competetion model of you-frag-others-for-money.
Imagine how pissed off you're going to be when an idiot teammate does something stupid and costs you money!
Also, this will totally fuck up objective oriented games since players will be so worried with kill/death ratios (because deaths cost you money), that they will totally ignore teamplay (hell, *I* would!)
Quake3 or UT2k3 would be better choices -- not only do they have MUCH larger audiences, but they fit better into the competetion model they have, because Quake3 and UT2k3 have FFA game modes.
Re:I don't see this lasting, at least not with RTC (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I don't see this lasting, at least not with RTC (Score:2)
This will fail. (Score:2)
Gee... I wonder what happens if one cheats?
See, in a casino, the casino management has video cameras on every table, slot machine, card, chip, and urinal. They make sure from EVERY single angle that there is NO cheating going on inside their premises. And if there is, you're gonna be BUSTED!!!
But how do you defend against this in an online playing environment where you don't have a video camera pointing in the user's face and st
Re:This will fail. (Score:2)
But how do you defend against this in an online playing environment where you don't have a video camera pointing in the user's face and stuff?
X10?
Cheaters not a major problem for Joe User (Score:5, Interesting)
However, cheating is still possible, but it will come from dedicated cheaters, rather like it does in casinos. Casinos have an advantage though, first they are very rich, and can afford all sorts of checks and balances, and second, players/cheaters are physically present, and therefore can be ID'd. In the online world, noone knows you're a dog, so it will be harder to stop a dedicated cheater from coming back. If the dedicated cheater does not reveal his/her method, then it will be up to the PB team to try and stop it. The PB team have an advantage when the cheat is released in the wild, but not when its kept secret.
PB has the great advantage of being able to update everyones code at any point. So if someone does do a major number on the current PB system, they can simply change it and bingo, all legit users are now running the new code.
The big problem is punishment for cheating. How do you stop a cheater? Kick him out? So he comes back with a new account and continues. You need a way to identify a user. The problem is any ID system will be open to comprimise aswell. The big casinos come down to using people to recognise other peoples faces, and you can't do that online.
If this becomes a very big venture, with real (i'm talking $10000+wins), then the big boys will come along and try to cheat, you'll find they will succeed sometimes.
The difference between this and normal casinos is you aren't playing against the house, so it will be difficult to play and win $10000, unless you find some pretty stupid people. However, lesser sums of $100 or so will be possible. I don't think that these stakes are high enough for the big boys to play for.
Where real money will come from will be when they do have a "house". Playing against computers (the house). They'll have to do it so the house wins >50% like they do at casinos, but it could become very interesting.
In all I think this will become interesting, but not interesting enough to the big boys, so go ahead, play for a few dollars, if you don't make it worthwhile a user risk cheating against you, then they won't.
Re:Cheaters not a major problem for Joe User (Score:4, Interesting)
If people are going to be gambling online, chances are they're going to have to be paying via CC. Why not use a hash of the credit card number as the unique identifier? Seems like a pretty good way to keep people tied to a single account, and not much risk of exposing the actual card numbers to the outside world.
Re:Cheaters not a major problem for Joe User (Score:2)
Re:Cheaters not a major problem for Joe User (Score:2)
So why do we have to ban cheats every other week? Why do people take the time and effort to create multiple accounts just to report false wins?
We already have enough arguments with people playing Double or Nothing games, gambling o
Awesome (Score:2)
i think people would love to see warcraft like ladder stats. best would be a techtv netcam deal as well.
this type of setup combined with the existing organized video game 'athletics' that tour around would be great.
Re:Awesome (Score:2)
There are two types of people in gambling (Score:2)
I play Wolfenstein competitivly (Score:3, Informative)
Return To Castle Wolfenstein is the best team game out there. The depth of the multiplayer game is beyond comparison. You would be amazed at the stratagy that goes into it. [attbi.com] (picture example of a strat) RTCW is not a deathmatch.
The problem is that the people who set this service up don't really know what RTCW is all about. RTCW is a TEAM GAME. The Medics support the Lieutenants. The Engineers follow to complete the objective. The Soldiers are a special class for special situations. They all complment each other.
You can't measure performance by kill/death ratio in RTCW. The guy that goes 2-14 can be just as valueable as the guy that goes 10-7. Sometimes, not shooting the other guy and sneaking by him is a benefit in getting to the objective.
Cheating in RTCW is a non-factor. Evenbalance's Punkbuster [evenbalance.com] can stop every cheat out there. It is updated frequently and can actually take a snapshot of your screen and send it to the game server admins. It also checks your games video setting to be sure you don't have an unfair advantage.
The only way this could work is if they changed it to a clan on clan system.
Clan A puts in $100.
Clan B puts in $100.
Winner get $190, service get 10.
I have been on the end of a screaming captain in a game that had no money involved. The things that came out of his mouth could offend german shizer movie star. I don't know if my family would be safe if money were on the line and I did something wrong.
Many clans have folded under pressure of competitve gaming with no money involved. Cyber Amateur League (CAL) [caleague.com] had a league for the elite. CAL-Invitational. After its second season it had to merge with the lower division because the top teams quit.
"Peaceful" solution to Iraq (Score:2)
On another note, I'm amazed no-one's released a mod yet that turns all the RTCW Germans into Republican Guards. Mind you, you'd have to design lots of civilian "uniforms", if the reports of underhand tactics are true.
Professional Killing (Score:4, Funny)
See? Much better.
I wanna know what Carmack thinks of this. (Score:2)
Either Carmack, really.
pb sucks (Score:2)
I'm running the latest version of Quake3 and yet I cannot connect to servers because I have an old version, regardless of having the *latest* version available for my platform.
Punkbuster might not be so bad if it was updated occasionally.
Deathrace 2000 (Score:2)
How to stop cheaters from coming back.... (Score:2)
This is relatively easy. To open an account, you need to submit your credit card and your information. Your credit card gets debited or credited with your loses and winnings. If you are identified as a cheater,
1) your account winnings are taken away,
2) you are fined a certain amount, and
3) your information is stored and you are banned from opening an account in the future
Under this system, you could still open accounts under your friends name/cc number, but most people will run out of people that are w
Credit card fraud? (Score:2)
If you win, by killing more of your opponents, you don't get the money, it gets credited back on to the credit card you stole.
Re:Credit card fraud? (Score:2)
Re:l337's may not exist (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:MOD PARENT DOWN: -1, Redundant Ass (Score:2)
Fee based online gaming?????? (Score:2)
Does this mean it is illegal to play everquest etc. in Arizona?
The way the blurb reads I would say yes. Anyone know?
Re:Sort of offtopic... but related (Score:2)
Re:Las Vegas, will not allow this (Score:2)