There.com's Virtual World & Economy 231
I)ruid writes "Unlike the virtual economies that have sprung forth from EverQuest, other MMORPG's, and sites such as eBay, this virtual world's economy is actually supported by its creators. Is it possible to make a real life living in a virtual economy? Only time will tell..." We did a previous story on There (a terrible name for a game since you can't search on it).
interesting (Score:1)
Re:interesting (Score:1)
As opposed to? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:As opposed to? (Score:2)
Re:As opposed to? (Score:2)
Maybe "There" should be seen as an investment, with risk. You put some value of money+time in, and hopefully somehow get more value of money+enjoyment out than you put in.
I dunno ... (Score:3, Informative)
Or if you are in the UK (Score:3, Insightful)
Entertaining for a while - like a month or two. Still - I made a killing from Cilla and Jacko
A better one (for kids) exists (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.neopets.com
has a virtual world where you use a virtual currency to buy items for your pets & fairy quests.
Years ago ('99) it had an auction system comparable to ebay (in both volume and sophistication), a store-builder comparable to yahoo stores; etc. Hundreds of thousands of kids play regularly. It's an amazing unknown success of the
Interestingly, 10-15 year old kids started createing consulting services in their chat rooms to build t
Can't search for it, but you could link to it (Score:5, Informative)
--
No search? BS. (Score:1, Flamebait)
Can't search on there? wtf.
First hit on google is, go figure, there.com.
Nope, doesn't work, can't do it.
Re:No search? BS. (Score:3, Insightful)
- It's usually wise to read reviews of a product before you purchase it.
- There.com is not the ideal site to find an unbiased review.
- It's difficult to search for reviews of "There" because of the huge number of matches.
- Most reviews will not call the service "There.com" if the actual name is "There".
- Therefore, it will be difficult to locate reviews and other information on "There" using Google or other search engines.
I don't believe th
Re:No search? BS. (Score:2)
No qualification whatsoever, and besides, it's more BS editorializing.
Michael is an idiot, plain and simple. Nobody cares what his point of view is, mostly because he has no business giving it to us in the first place. His job is to post articles. If he wants to continue commenting on articles he posts, he should join the party.
And, FYI, time may very well prove you a m
Re:No search? BS. (Score:2)
Re:No search? BS. (Score:2)
I said nothing at all about the story BTW, which is why lots around here get annoyed by Michael's BS, because it deters from the stories that he did not write, find OR submit. Sure, I could filter out his stories in my prefs, but what good would that do? I'd be helping the problem by ignoring it AND I'd miss the stories.
Besides, it's been so nice chatting with you
Re:No search? BS. (Score:2)
The Who had no knowledge of search engines or web sites when they created their name. I'm sure there were problems when people first tried to buy Who albums. Exchanges in records stores between customers and clerks probably turned into Abbott and Costello routines quite often.
"There"
Re:No search? BS. (Score:2)
Dude, you said your point, I said mine, somebody else even said we're both right in differing ways, I thought we'd already agreed to disagree.
Now you post more BS and then as me to stop being so difficult? Piss off eh?
Besides, are you a marketing research analyst? No? Then what makes you so right about the name? Maybe it will make a go of it simply because of the strange name.
Really, if somebody is going online and wants to find out about this 'there' thing, what will they find? Well...there.com rig
Re:Can't search for it, but you could link to it (Score:3, Insightful)
Funny thing, when you get there, it is suddenly here, and the here you started from is there. And never shall the two meet.
But just like Oakland, CA... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:But just like Oakland, CA... (Score:2)
Re:Can't search for it, but you could link to it (Score:2)
An answer to your question (Score:4, Insightful)
As long as there enough miserable bastards to dump all their cash into their online "life", sure. Just don't count on too many well-adjusted patrons.
Re:An answer to your question (Score:2)
There was a good Wired article [wired.com] on this- the minimum wage averages out to be $3.42/hour, though for a different game (UO and/or EQ) than There.com.
Re:An answer to your question (Score:2)
If many more developers and other business people are working from home and telecommuting, one would think that providing a virtual office environment might be a wonderful idea. I mean, rig
We've got Project Entropia (Score:1)
Everquest?? (Score:2, Funny)
Exchange rate to real money? (Score:1)
Sickening (Score:1)
Re:Sickening (Score:2)
You obviously haven't kept up on the last several years of mmorpg's then if you have to ask that question.
Re:What a loser (Score:2)
"In conclusion, your last sentence was just rude. I don't need you being an asshole to me. Now if you want to have a civil discussion about this, fine. If you want to continue to use inflammatory speech, then I won't bother with you. Don't be such a dick." Hypocritical little bitch isn't he? Ritalin must take a long time to kick in on fat ass like his. By 1:00PST he should be back to his cheery medicated self.
Re:What a loser (Score:2)
The post above "then you must not play many MMORPGS"..if you found that cruel, negative, or insulting in the least, then you're brain is actually a rat's nest.
And finally, I love it when people comment on typos..it shows you've run out of anything even resembling a competent argument.
Re:Sickening (Score:2)
I object! And how exactly did you know about this? Are you watching me?
I wish (Score:2)
Besides, Business 2.0 is so '1999'
Re:I wish (Score:2)
Business 2.0 is no WSJ. It's like skepticism flew out the door and it took journalistic integrity with it.
You can search for it. (Score:2)
Fake Money ---- Real Money? (Score:5, Insightful)
Look at everquest, when that bug was found that gave you millions of dollars. The inflation became absolutely rampant, and many people who didn't have the millions to survive the inflation were screwed.
And now these guys are offering way to convert your real money to and from fake money so you can buy nonexistant products? I so see this being a major economical security risk. Especially since there is no guarantees anywhere on the money, and all it would take is a simple bug and the entire economy of "There" would basically become meaningless.
Re:Fake Money ---- Real Money? (Score:2)
Re:Fake Money ---- Real Money? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Fake Money ---- Real Money? (Score:2)
Re:Fake Money ---- Real Money? (Score:2)
And gold doesn't have an instrinsic value? It is a critical component in the manufacture of electronics and telecommunications - it is used for medical purposes because it is non-reactive and hypo-allergenic. It is an integral part of many catalysts. It could be argued that the intrinsic value of gold is much more than oil - it certainly will retain its value long after the petroleum economy is gone...
"...required to convert to dollars and pay taxes..."
Re:Fake Money ---- Real Money? (Score:2)
Silly, and perhaps a bit disingenuous. Gold formed the cornerstone of every Western monetary system far before thre were electronics, communications, chemistry, or anything even resembling modern medicine. Gold may have an "intrinsic" (read: practical) value, but it's negligable in terms of its mone
Re:Fake Money ---- Real Money? (Score:2)
My point is that there are equal (if not superior) intrinsic practical values for gold beyond its monetary uses, regardless of its historical role.
Re:Fake Money ---- Real Money? (Score:2)
Re:Fake Money ---- Real Money? (Score:2)
OF COURSE the federal government pays debt with taxpayer money! What else would they use? The debt incurred by the Federal government - good or bad - is on the taxpayer's behalf. It's not some third-party 'Federal' debt - it is your debt, incurred on your behalf by your
Re:Fake Money ---- Real Money? (Score:2)
Look, it's not me that made this up. Infact, it was the #1 argument used by people who opposed Regan's tax cuts in 82 - they said lowering taxes would drive down the demmand for the dollar and INCREASE inflation. (even though just the opposite happened, because lowering taxes caused the economey to grow relative to the same ammount of dollars in circulation) If I earn my income in euro's - I half to pay taxes in dollars, if I earn them trade $$ from itex the barter company - I also half to convert and pa
Re:Fake Money ---- Real Money? (Score:2)
As for the value of the dollar, everyone in this thead is correct that it's based on the idea of what we think it is worth. Nothing more, nothing less.
Ditto for the Euro, Yen, and any other major currency.
Re:Fake Money ---- Real Money? (Score:2)
Philosophy 101 (Score:2)
You have just explained the concept of the 'worth' of anything.
Re:Fake Money ---- Real Money? (Score:2)
It was UO (Score:2)
Re:Fake Money ---- Real Money? (Score:2)
Much more interesting is EQ's buying/selling of currency on ebay since this effectively gives EQ a floating exchange rate.
Once again, like it or not, this *is* real money
Unbalenced (Score:1)
I think that is the biggest problem.
Re:Unbalenced (Score:2)
I think that is the biggest problem.
Well yeh, that's kind of how their business model works, you put money in, but you don't get it back out. Hopefully paypal doesn't ever switch over to this model, because then no mat
There ... not quite there (Score:1)
Sadly, I think microsoft has the right idea with their next generation IM [threedegrees.com].
Another draw back of this is it seems to be a huge marketing focus group that you pay to be in. I hope the dot com bust has taught us one thing. People are adverse to experiances that are centered on marketing.
The only way
Re:There ... not quite there (Score:2)
Oh well I guess they didn't read the numbers of people using XP I doubt There will here too long.
You CAN search for it (Score:1)
You can search for words that are normally ignored by quoting them, just like you can rm files with spaces in their names by escaping them :D
Search for "There" Results 1 - 10 of about 212,000,000 :P
First match was There.com
You can also use +There instead of "There". Saves a character
The above result was from Google, but most search engines I've used work this way.
Nearly "There"???? (Score:2)
Dillusions of Grandeur? (Score:2)
Wow. They're off their frickin rockers I do believe. Yeah, we'll all just choose to forgo reality, and while we're at it, choose there.com to replace it for us. Again, wow. Just a wee bit of
Re:Dillusions of Grandeur? (Score:2)
Re:Dillusions of Grandeur? (Score:2)
It's a freaking blown up chat room, that has no viable market, so they're trying to create markets for it, but all they can come up with is replicating real world markets in their virtual world.
You gonna buy into it? One born every minute ehh?
Re:Dillusions of Grandeur? (Score:2)
Re:Dillusions of Grandeur? (Score:2)
The parent is right, if There is seriously purposing some kind of jack-of-all-trades virtual world, they and their investors (their investors, There investors , very clever...) are completely s
Re:Dillusions of Grandeur? (Score:2)
There is hope after all
I made about 300 dollars off Diablo2 (Score:2)
I simply used the autoit script and wrote my own "pindlebot" after I saw what could be done by people with bad intensions. My rating on ebay is flawless and i'm sure that many people are enjoying the 3 legitimate windforces I sold them along with the many other things.
Of course now that all you have to do is download the program, you can't make a dime off diablo2.
Hopefully the 1.10 patch with fix that if indeed it isn't vaporware.
Re:I made about 300 dollars off Diablo2 (Score:2)
Dave
Healthy? (Score:2)
Right now, it's two-income households and daycare, where good family time is essentially non-existant.
Now, that almost non-existant family time is virtualized. Just wonderful.
Why do so many people strive for these things?
In an actual economy, however (Score:4, Interesting)
Are retailers going to be able to set up virutal shops? Are there going to be virtual cyberprostitute rings? And just as importantly... are there going to be virtual cops?
A virtual economy is a lot more than a virtual mall. It is not a marketplace, it's an environment within which a marketplace gets built.
Virtual taxes. Virtual income. Do you earn an income in it, or is this a one-way economy, like everquest, with people pouring money in left and right? Because frankly, i can think of better ways to spend my money than on the entrance fee to a virtual playground, where i then get to buy virtual stuff with real money. (Do virtual goods have a depreciation schedule?)
Another good question would be whether a 'virtual economy' which does not permit free enterprise is an economy at all- can i set up a virtual shop, selling, say, modifications like armor, and make real money? Does money come back out for anyone other than the marketers and the owners?
In other words- how does this differ from a 'sims you can pay for' model??? In a real online virtual economy, we'd be able to sell each other game mods that let us, say, change our environment (virtual landscapers) or up our quality of life (virtual just about everything else) and it would be the geeks who made the most money. This is not likely to be permitted... this looks more like a toy than anything else. We're not there yet, put down the mouse and go back to the Gibson novels... *sigh*
Re:In an actual economy, however (Score:2)
They are asking users to subscribe to an online mall, thus becoming unwitting members of a massive corporate focus group. A real economy should be based on the creation of value - not hanging out and buying virtual Levi's with actual money.
If you want to see an economy in an online world where the users build, texture, script, and sell each other objects, check out Second Life [secondlife.com].
Re:In an actual economy, however (Score:2)
There hasn't even hit version 1 yet. Some of the questions you're asking are answered in the article despite your implication (things like virtual storefronts, for instance, and the potential for users to make radical environment changes down the road). The other questions--depreciation and taxes, and indeed the whole question of what free enterprise entails in such a market--are worthwhile to ask, but unrealistic to expect answers to yet. The data simply isn't available.
A lot of people seem to think that
flawed. period. (Score:3, Interesting)
The engine is crappy, the interface is worse, the premise is flawed and expensive, and the game is based around trying to look cool.
You can't edit anything in the world, you can't create anything, you can just buy stuff. it's like a virtual mall.
Then again, maybe I'm just bitter because i heard it was going to be like the Metaverse in Snowcrash.
The Money is Real .... (Score:3, Funny)
it's a holodeck! (Score:2)
Excuse me, real girls are around, bbl.
EQ conspiracy theory. (Score:4, Interesting)
When it comes to making real life money through EQ, I think I've come across a scam that's gotta have one hell of a profit margin. I can't be the first guy to ever think of this, but I've yet to find any information about it online.
On playerauctions.com, you can buy in game money for RL money. I've had a friend do this and much to my surprise after he completed the transaction, he alt-tabbed back into the game and the guy was handing him the money.
At any given time their is about 3 million platinum pieces being sold, per server, in amounts ranging from 10k to 100k. To those that don't play, this is an astrinomical amount of money. Most of the end game uber guilds don't have this much in their treasury. It's a mind-blowing amount of money. Now as someone that has played EQ for 2 years, I can tell you their is no way that you could put together 3 mil in a day. The uber guilds MIGHT be able to liquidate all their droppable gear plus their collective amount of money and squeeze out 3 mil, but after that it would probably take them a month or 2 to scrape together that amount of cash again.
Their are macro programs that basically use a script to walk your avatar between a weapons/armor forge and the metal dealer where your guy makes something that sells back to the merchant for a few bucks more than the materials cost, showing a slight profit each time. This idea is out as well because it would take weeks to do this, and the same guy working a forge for 2 weeks straight MIGHT arouse suspicion.
My friends and I have given serious thought to how
someone is able to put together this much cash day in and day out. The ONLY explanation that makes ANY sense is that GM's are using their power to summon money but the boatloads, giving it to anonymous alt characters, and raking in the fat cash. The money on playerauctions.com is ALWAYS being bid on, and I estimate that they're pulling about 1k-1.5k real money EVERYDAY from this practice. That's 100% profit as well.
Sorry for the rant, but I wanted to see if anyone
Re:EQ conspiracy theory. (Score:2)
This log can be perused by the techs and other admin.
If a GM summons loads of gold/respawns expensive things, it'll show up like a lightbulb.
That's just the way I understand things to be happening there..
Possible sources for the income (Score:2)
As I understand it, there are two sources for this money, the first is plain buying it. The people who run the site know the "exchange rate" on their different servers, and simple offer a lesser amount to sell to them directly, and/or watch eBay auctions for profitable trades.
The other source, and an interesting side benefit, is cross-server transactions. If you have 20 plat on Ballhae, and want to move it to your character on Yahona, then you contact
Re:EQ conspiracy theory. (Score:2)
Re:EQ conspiracy theory. (Score:2)
official escrow services (Score:2)
EverQuest and its brethren have railed against the virtual marketplace, usually because it creates support issues ("he robbed me, the check bounced, give me my character back!"). It also creates major gameplay imbalances, some complain; however, the whole idea of an ever-expanding micro-economy has major inflation issues, so get over it.
I've always assumed the better model would be for EverQuest to design in an escrow facility. Mark your account (or property) as escrowed, and the game system will lock a
Naming (Score:2)
Stress testing (Score:2)
Oh, yeah. That's just what we need. Architectual stress-testing using "near-real" physics...
tulip bulbs and beanie babies (Score:2)
This will develop a meaningful economy until everyone realizes there is no real value and the bottom drops out.
Previous examples:
Can't search on it? (Score:2)
Re:Can't search on it? (Score:2)
But you're right about that -- interesting how Google works.
I went There, and went home (Score:3, Informative)
Anyway, There ain't that bad. As long as you don't go shelling your cash into it, it's a neat chat room (the bubbles are kinda cool), and the gestures actually make your avatar do them. Laugh and they laugh, put a few ''' in from of Laugh and the avatar laughs harder, etc. The gestures work from Wave to Kiss, and so those desperate few who struggle for acceptance can get their kicks in there too. Though there isn't a "Shag" gesture, let's just remember its still in beta.
And the vehicles are cool. The engine is sub-par, but on a high-end system you can ride the dune buggy and use the rocket pack to its fullest. I know it sounds silly, but I couldn't help but laugh out loud (and hell, be amazed) at the feeling you get by chatting it up with someone and then just taking off into the clear blue sky.
Also, a high-speed connection is needed for these events. The engine needs a sweet vid card and processor, and the data needs a fat pipe to bring it to you. Only those meeting that criteria need to apply in order to get any sort of "fun" out of There.
I played There for about 3 days. I met a few people, and some were very cool. You can play with animals (play Fetch w/ the dog, etc), be a part of races using the dune buggies, all kinds of stuff. This isn't to say I was enthralled by it, but its enough to keep you interested.
Interesting story: the first time I visited There, I entered a conversation with a girl and a guy. The guy was a college student, the girl didn't reveal her occupation. Nevertheless, we talked about movies and tv and music, the usual getting-to-know-you barometer as to how cool your company is. The girl suggested we go find Rocket Packs and Dune Buggies, which we did. Everything was cool, but then, when I had to leave, the girl said "Page me when you want to continue the tour."
The lesson is, be wary of cool females who pretend to be normal users but are probably payrolled by There to get you familiar with the place.
Re:I went There, and went home (Score:2)
The lesson is, be wary of cool females who pretend to be normal users but are probably payrolled by There to get you familiar with the place.
Do you think she was a There employee or an AI?
Re:I went There, and went home (Score:2)
Oh, definitely not AI. We had a conversation for about twenty minutes, then came the rocket pack and dune buggy. Then we went our seperate ways.
As for the employee part, I'm still unsure, even after all this time. Who knows, maybe she was just doing the tour guide thing for Therebucks.
The Dollar (Score:2)
Re:The Dollar (Score:2)
Oh boy, I made the mistake of reading the link which suggests that Iraq only accepting euros in payment for oil would take value away from the dollar - which was the motive for war. But, since I already went thru the troubble to read it, I minus well respond....
I hate to tell you this, but the US economey isn't proped up by oil, but manufacturing and technology. No matter what they accepted as currency, exchange rates would work out the difference. The WTC attacks did more to harm our dollar/economey th
Don't complain about your lack of searching skills (Score:2)
Michael, with all due respect, if you're looking for a game named There perhaps you'd ask Google for "game there" [google.com] ?
Or if you knew it was a virtual world you could ask instead for "there virtual world" [google.com] .
Both these searches return relevant results.
2 Thoughts (Score:2)
Personally I'd like to see an open-source collaboration to create such a world, with virtual civic duties and councils. By its very nature, it would be immensely democ
real income, fantasy production (Score:2)
It's a bit arbitrary, since by making this distinction, I'm saying, "It's not 'real' because if everyone produced virtual things, we
Why is this under "Games"? (Score:2)
I've played text-based muds and online games, and the potential for other apps has always made me interested -- rules for interaction and "laws" are really the primary problems, as the many posts here indicate already.
A few y
Re:moron motives (Score:2)
I am not looking for someone to control the idea and cash in on it. I would like to see a free as in freedom version of this for people to use in whatever manner that they choose to use it. Hence my concern about patents and using (standard) protocols rather than proprietary technology to accomplish the building of such a world.
Give the tools to anyone and everyone and see what happens.
GF.
How long until... (Score:2)
The first money hack...
The first money hack that gets prosecuted outside of the game
The first mafia/gang/organized crime ring entirely within the game
The first prosecuted money laundering scheme involving the game
The first lawsuit brought against the company
The first information hack (CC, Name, address, etc)
The first murder attempt inside the game (are they going to ban guns? What happens with kitchen knives?)
The first murder hack inside the game, after they dull kitchen knives
T
Central Planning (Score:2)
Sure, essential goods are nonexistent and everything else can be replicated endlessly (by the 'government'), but the bottom line has to be that roleplaying in an open
It is probably the future, but... (Score:2)
not with one monopolistic company wanting to extend an exchange economy*, no matter how good and benevolent they are.
The world is for all to create.
* and during this time, GWB is trying to transform USoA in a command economy...
Been there, Done that (Score:2)
http://www.project-entropia.com [project-entropia.com]
Project Entropia will have a real economy system that allows you as a user to exchange real life money into PED (Project Entropia Dollars) and then back into a real currency again.
The game was release last month (or so), but the company (MindArk) is pretty much a joke
http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,53534,00
The wh
IE only, thx la ~ (Score:2)
Google it? (Score:2)
Google search: "There Inc."
I'll believe it when I see it (Score:1)
I know guys who have sold their characters for hundreds and hundreds of dollars.
They could have made MORE money had they used those gazillion hours to flip burgers.
Re:Neocron comparison? (Score:2)