Games - The Jury Is Out And Confused 83
Thanks to Blue's News for pointing to a New York Times article entitled 'On Video Games, the Jury Is Out and Confused' (registration required). It talks about the mixed messages being given to parents about video gaming, especially with regard to violent content, and its effect on their children: "In the face of contradictory, inconclusive or just plain confusing evidence, some parents... agonize over what limits to set." One concerned mother even has to keep her spouse in check as well: "My husband is a little hard to control. Sometimes he lets them rent games with little figures on top of buildings trying to shoot each other off." What limits do you or your relatives put on their children's gaming, and why?
Play with your kids (Score:5, Insightful)
As kids grow older, they need less supervising. If a parent judges their child to be mature enough, there's no need for any supervision. Now, the problem is that most people let the TV or the computer raise their kids instead of doing it themselves. Newsflash: Entertainment can never be a substitute for interaction.
Re:Play with your kids (Score:1)
But I'm betting you don't have kids. You need a break. It's unhealthy for you, and therefore your children for you to devote all your time to them. Anybody that tries to shield their kids f
Re:Play with your kids (Score:3, Insightful)
You just described the extreme alternative. What (s)he was trying to say is, instead of letting a kid use games etc.. instead of social interaction all the time, take time out of your day
Re:Play with your kids (Score:2, Insightful)
Nor did (s)he say that you should play with your kids ALL the time. There's a big difference between letting kids sit infront of the computer or TV all day unsupervised (what they said) and being there with them all day (what you said). There is a middle ground here, maybe you should look for it instead of nothing but extremes.
Re:Play with your kids (Score:1)
Here's an idea... (Score:5, Insightful)
Which do you think would be more like a responsible parent:
a) Reviewing the games/movies/etc your child wants, and deciding if that's the kind of thing you want him/her to have.
or
b) Letting a bunch of people you don't (and probably never will) know tell you wht they think your child should be exposed to?
=Smidge=
Re:Here's an idea... (Score:2, Interesting)
It'll just make it easier to blame someone (or something) else when the kid doesn't turn out right.
Of course my opinion is cheap, since I don't have any kids
Re:Here's an idea... (Score:2)
"It's been scientifically proved that they can play Rape Camp III for 168 hours a week withuout any detrimental effects."
while the other camp reports that
"It's been scientifically proven that letting an under-7 watch someone else play Doom will cause them to slaughter their family in their beds."
If parents don't _know_ what effect the games have, how can they set reasonable limits? Sure, they could say "I don't like it, so you're banned!" but
Re:Here's an idea... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Here's an idea... (Score:2, Insightful)
I was watching R movies by the time I was that age(maybe 11-12). Of course, I was doing it without the explicit permission of my parents. If they had allowed me to watch them in the first place, along with them instead of kicking me out of the room, I wouldn't have had to hide it from them. As a result, I saw things that they wouldn't approve of. If they had gone with me to rent movies and watched them with me, they could've r
Re:Here's an idea... (Score:1)
I agree completely with that. Unfortunately, it's quite possible that giving your kid a good whack upside the head is quite possibly illegal nowadays... regardless of the reason.
There is definately a line between dicipline and abuse, but seriously... sometimes they need a good whack to put them in their place.
=Smidge=
Re:Here's an idea... (Score:1)
Nope, not illegal. At least not in my state and not on a national level. I believe the line is drawn if the discipline leaves a mark. If you smack your kid upside the head and your ring cuts his scalp open, then ya, you might get some flack for that. There was a case in the news about a woman that was caught on a security camera a
Re:Here's an idea... (Score:1)
I mean, if I were divorced, I still probably wouldn't go around telling my coworkers that the mother of my child was completely incompetent and irresponsible even if she were. Maybe my close friends, but I would be careful who I told because I wouldn't want it to get back to my son.
Mind
My thoughts (Score:5, Interesting)
The article mentions a mother fearing that her sons will become socially isolated if they play video games, I think this is totally wrong. I just graduated high school and the majority of the guys all had atleast one gaming system and played them regularly. Those who didn't play video games were normally the kids that were in either the church group, or the alcoholic jocks.
It's great that video games improve your visual skills, but if you shelter your children then they'll never learn.
Another thing, I don't think there should be any laws deciding what I can and can not buy in terms of video games. On more than one occasion my mother has went out and bought the game for me because I wasn't allowed to. If you don't want your kids playing a game, then it should be your respondsibility to make sure they don't, not the governments/corperations. I feel the same way about movies, I was able to buy rated R tickets when I was 14 but for the last two years I couldn't. Thank you very much Tipper Gore.
Crack-Addled Moderator (Score:2)
How the hell is this off-topic?! I wish metamod wasn't random.
Re:My thoughts (Score:4, Interesting)
Nearly everybody I went to school with had a system as well. For all those people I knew, there was one kid who was a little too fascinated with video games. He gave us all a good spook. My guess is that parents who are concerned about that knew a guy who ended up being a little too anti-social. It didn't help when that dude got too involved in Everquest and killed himself.
My guess is that most parents (particularly the uninformed ones) are overly concerned with the one rotten apple in the bunch. Wish I could say that I could sympathize, but I don't. Child behaviour may be a mystery (didn't Bill Cosby refer to it as 'brain damage'?) but how well developed could a child be if too much is kept from his or her realm of experience?
Re:My thoughts (Score:1)
Needless to say I did everything I could to talk her out of buying a video game system. She mentioned she had a PC so I think I had her get him Mario Teaches Typing or something instead. I was pretty proud of myself in that situation.
Why? Because she wa
kong (Score:5, Insightful)
reminds me of that old qbasic game where gorillas calculated tragectories and tried to blow each other up with bananas. occasionally my middleschool math teacher let us play that game during class. i never heard any stories about students throwing banana pipe bombs at eachother, though.
this whole thing of blaming violent activities on games is just part of an endemic problem with passing the buck. little murdurers just need to be made to face the music and be responsible for their own actions. no virtual finger pulled the trigger.
the truth may be that violent and disturbed people are drawn to violent and disturbing games. most people people who play the games have a clear grasp of what is fantasy and what is reality, but there are some who are already messed up in the head and warped games just add to the problem.
Re:kong (Score:1)
Gorilla! That game ruled... I used to play that w/my dad back in the day..
After a little googling, I managed to find this page [redbrick.dcu.ie] that has it avail for download
I'm guessing it's "Super Smash Brothers" (Score:2)
Re:kong (Score:2)
My school was addicted to scorched earth. As a result, anybody caught with a straw outside of the cafeteria was suspended.
Simple! (Score:5, Funny)
This is ridiculous. (Score:5, Insightful)
I think it's OK for parents to limit the amount of video game a child plays, but it shouldn't have anything to do with morals. Its more of health issue. Kids should be out and playing more...
Re:This is ridiculous. (Score:3, Interesting)
--trb
Re:This is ridiculous. (Score:1)
Here's an idea (Score:3, Insightful)
How about you spend time with your kids and teach them what's wrong and what's right, teach them the difference between real and fiction, talk to them about what they might see instead of always jumping on limiting their imagination. Not all parents drop their kids in front of the TV as day care, but I've seen this happen so many times it makes me sick. I played video games when I was young, even at an early age I knew that what I saw on the TV was not real, whether I was controlling it or not. Sure video games influence children, but good parenting influences them a hell of a lot more. I'm not sure what bothers me more, that there are children that are growing up raised by the television, or that there are parents that find this so acceptable that they want someone else to set a guideline of what's ok for their children. Video games are fine for children, not teaching them to discern between fact and fiction is just deplorable. If your kid is going to go out and act out a sniper scene in a game at 14 years old, you either took a horribly wrong turn as a parent or your kid is in need of specialized help that the ESRB can't give you. Stop shifting the blame, accept some responsibility, if you're not willing to do that: don't have kids.
Re:Here's an idea (Score:2, Informative)
These people, who had to *discover* that there was "some value" to games, are the same ones who park their kids in front of inane videos, just to get some peace. They obviously saw some value in non-interactive images on tv...why is it that people seem to think static watching of the regular crap on tv is somehow better than actually PLAYING a video game. I mean, sure, there are games you don't want l
Che. (Score:1)
As the video game making generation obviously weren't fucked up by video games, we have to assume it was something else that did.
I think we should focus on this rather than assuming that these video games have an adverse effect at all.
Re:Che. (Score:3, Insightful)
As the video game making generation obviously weren't fucked up by video games, we have to assume it was something else that did.
Perhaps your wording is a bit off, but there don't really seem to be a lot of problems with the generation that's making these games (except for the fact that they seem a bit obsessed with excessive violence). The reason people are worried abo
Re:Che. (Score:2)
In the 50's young people were out getting into trouble, what did people blame? Rock and Roll, why, well because it was new and it was soemthing that the older generation, the ones in control, didn't like/understand so, instead of blaming themselves for failing to raise their child
I'll tell ya what my parents did/do (Score:1, Interesting)
When you make a kid work for the $50 each time instead of buying it for him/her, they keep a firm foot in reality.
Re:I'll tell ya what my parents did/do (Score:1)
Mmmmmm.... conrol.....[drool] (Score:4, Funny)
One concerned mother even has to keep her spouse in check as well: "My husband is a little hard to control."
And as all you married men out there know, it's ALL about control.
Re:Mmmmmm.... conrol.....[drool] (Score:1)
Shit, you don't even have to be married, just live with her a few months. My girlfriend freaked out yesterday because I want to track the money I'm spending on bills a bit differently.
Re:Mmmmmm.... conrol.....[drool] (Score:2)
try to figure it out and the questions start..... the worst part is it isnt like she got nice clothes or something to show for it. i could understand that. it's just fucking gone.
grr....
Focus On What Counts (Score:4, Insightful)
So we should focus on where we're held responsible. Does it really matter if an outside influence affects our judgement? If it results in breaking the law, absolutely not! Do I think the games affect people's moods, personalities, and actions? Probably. Does it matter? Nope.
We should teach our kids and adults more about penalties for misdeeds. I think the proper fear of consequences can go a lot further than trying to remove a "bad influence." We also need to balance that with proper teaching and modeling of good behavior for children and adults.
Re:Focus On What Counts (Score:1)
Yes, yes they do. Check out this CNN article [cnn.com] from a few days ago.
I quote "Just last week, Hamilton, Ohio, resident Tonda Lynn Ansley was found not guilty by reason of insanity after claiming she thought her landlord was part of a conspiracy to brainwash and kill her."
They do blame movies and the do get away with it
Re:Focus On What Counts (Score:1)
1) You're found insane because you believe fantasy is reality, aka blaming a movie is pretty crazy
2) You give up almost all of your rights because you have declared yourself publicly and on-the-record as someone who needs to be sequestered from the rest of society for an indefinite period of time. Ms. Ansley may never know freedom again, which is probably for the best.
The article does say most don't get away with it. And that Malvo guy is ins
Re:Focus On What Counts (Score:1)
Sports too violent? (Score:1)
Do these parents not know about the 598092834 sports games that were released last year?
Re:Sports too violent? (Score:2)
And having a kid defend the earth from invading aliens in an imaginary game is bad?
I guess we should have him go beat up the kid next door...much better to have him take out his anger on humans than on pixels...
Further more, I'd say there really is evidence of a connection between sports and violent kids. The jocks also being the bullies isn't just a st
Re:Sports too violent? (Score:1)
no hentai for you! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:no hentai for you! (Score:2, Funny)
Re:no hentai for you! (Score:2, Funny)
A good example (Score:1)
*twitch**spasm*
13 is old enough for most stuff (Score:5, Interesting)
I would argue that videogames are just as good as sports when it comes to relieving agressive tendencies. When playing online or with friends, gaming can not only be a social event, it can sometimes be an intellectual one as well (Civ III, for example).
So unless there's sadstic or explicitly sexual content, I think a little fragging will do your teenager good.
I have a four year old son and a PlayStation 2 (Score:5, Interesting)
OK, so with the violence deal, the folks who blame violence on video games should take the fire hydrant out of their ass that's holding their head in. These fuctards who think video games cause violence aren't mature enough to figure out the difference between reality and a video game themselves. They are also people who don't really seem interested in raising their kids. "It takes a village", Bullshit! It takes time, your time, spend it with your kid and help them grow up right
I pay close attention to the games my son plays. I check them out with him, I help him play through the hard spots, and I don't let him play adult games.
Things will change as he gets older, and what I let him play will be determined by his level of maturity. I have friends and relatives who don't game who look to me for advice about the games their kids are exposed to. My cousin bought her third grader GTA Vice City, I could have smacked her when I found out, but she already knew at that point. That just isn't appropriate for kids in grade school. No, I don't think the one time he played it is going to make him go out and run someone over, but you don't give a little kid a game that they don't have the mature thought processes to handle, that's why it's rated M, mature, don't give it to your fucking grade school kids.
But there you go, she bought her kid a game that wasn't appropriate, but she sat down with him on Christmas day as he played it for the first time, and said "oh shit."
Another example, "War of the Monsters" It's a T rated game, but I let my four year old play it. I let him play it because we only play in two player, and we just run around and break up buildings. Good clean fun. He gets mad at me if I throw his monster around, and he doesn't like the normal single player mode because the other monsters are mean to him.
Re:I have a four year old son and a PlayStation 2 (Score:3, Interesting)
The builders are probably most of us, we took lego's and made stuff. The drama kids took the stuff others made and created a story for it. My child is a drama kid. The people who make games seem far to often to be builders. My son doesnt often play games the way they want them played. He prefers to just run around
Gaming as social activity.. (Score:2)
Catharsis is one of the unspoken powers in this world..one we don't talk about much.
As to the violence...eh...most kids watch some sort of violent movie or what-so. No different. I think what really warps kids minds is when the violence become
Re:Gaming as social activity.. (Score:1)
Maybe I'm just lucky, or possibly too young (25), but for me gaming was mostly a group (or at least 2 player) activity for most of my life. Even when a game didn't really offer a 2-player mode (ie Punch-Out), my friends and I would watch each
Gaming Parent (Score:3, Interesting)
"Parents need to think about what is being displaced when kids play video games, and balance any possible improvement in visual attention with that," said Jeanne Funk, a professor of psychology at the University of Toledo who has conducted several studies on the effects of video game violence.
What is being displaced? Watching TV? Learning to Smoke? Finding alchohol and drugs? Basically my son and his freinds DO go outside, they do, have fun and ride bikes and skateboard, but when they skateboard they are Tony Hawk. When they play they are Shinobi or Ryo. How does this differ from I as a child playing I was Batman? His freinds are all bright interesting geeky boys.
I believe the only thing being displaced by games are things that are best pointless and at worst abhorrent. Gaming brings our family together. when you sit and game with your child you share an expierence not unlike visiting an amusement park or playing softball. You compete and you co-operate. The most important thing is you spend time with your child sharing an activity they do and can enjoy the rest of their life.
Comics (Score:2)
Ratings system (Score:2)
Cowboys and indians, cops and robbers (Score:3, Interesting)
That's right, all the generations of kids who played these horrendous, violent "street games" turned out to be monstrous asocial killers in real life huh? Didn't they?
Hell, when I was a kid, my mom wouldn't let me have toy guns, so I made myself guns from lego blocks. When I was done with them I would dismantle them into 3 or 4 easy to reassamble pieces that I would hide in separate sections of my lego chest (Ã la Nikita).
Kids play war. This is what kids do. The fact that kids play war using games that didn't exist when the current adults were kids just scares the old farts like any new tech scares the old geezers. "In my time, kids were respectfull of their elders, we walked a 100 miles in snow to school, barefoot and uphill both ways, every morning, and didn't play violent games".
Yes, put limits to your kids. Yes, don't let the lil'uns play adult gore games (silent hill scares me, I wouldn't let a 9yr old play it), yes, don't let them spend ALL their times on games. But for crying out loud, relax allready! Boys will be boys and trying to hide the fact that there is violence in the world will only leave them unprepared to face it.
Re:Cowboys and indians, cops and robbers (Score:2)
Don't forget how Bugs Bunny and other cartoons turned all of us into deranged killers, ready to drop anvils on people. Or how D&D turned us into spell-casting Satanists [chick.com].
I have two boys, 10 and 5. For the most part, I let them play the same games I play. My only concern is for foul language. No, I'm not afraid that hearing naughty words is going to warp them, I just don't want them repeating choice Duke Nukem quotes at school.
Both my boys know the difference between game violence and real violenc
Re:Cowboys and indians, cops and robbers (Score:2)
Hehe, back in high school we used to play nSnipes during lunch time. After a few weeks of seeing the computer lab fill up in the first 2 minutes of lunch, the game was removed from the network. The official reason was "degradation of student language"
We'd scream to each other across the room
Ahhh...good times...
Re:Cowboys and indians, cops and robbers (Score:1)
This one time some kids from another neighborhood came around and we chased them around a bit. Untill the grown-ups started yelling. We got angry and set and set some garbage cans on fire. I guess somebody discarded a load of spray cans because the whole thing went up in a fiery glory of fish guts and twisted metal, breaking some windows and setting some other stuff on fire. We got scared and ran awa
There IS a correlation (Score:4, Interesting)
Having said that, there is definitely a correlation between violent behaviour and violent video games. I know this, because I have felt them.
Last year, a close friend and I spent an entire afternoon/early evening inside playing Grand Theft Auto 3, stealing cars, passing missions, running around and shooting people. We blasted the jungle radio station through my surround sound system, laughed, smoked, and had a great time.
Later that night, we went out with some other friends clubbing. After last call, we were stuck about a 20 minute walk from home, so we decided to hike it on foot. About half way home, a cop car suddenly pulled up in front of us, and two officers got out and walked into a chinese restaurant. The window on the passenger's door was wide open.
I looked at my buddy Drach just as he looked at me and then I said "Are you thinking what I'm thinking?" And he's like "My dear god... My urge to steal the cop car is ridiculous."
Of course, we're rational human beings, and we did nothing of the sort. But the fact is that after joy riding in cop cars all after noon, it sort of romanticized the idea. Now you could argue that because we didn't go through with it, video games are safe. And I'd agree with that, as I continue to play and just beat Return to Castle Wolfenstein : The Tides of War. But the idea here is that they can be just as suggestive (or moreso, as interactivity increases) as other media.
A game like GTA3, with it's violence and glamorization of criminal acts has no place in the hands of a toddler, or a young child. After that, it's the parent's responsibility to determine whether or not their child can handle it.
-RW
Re:There IS a correlation (Score:2)
Re:There IS a correlation (Score:1)
I'm still wondering how it is that GTA3 (or Vice City) glamorizes criminal acts. I haven't quite figured this one out yet, because the more I go off on wild killing frenzies in the game the more likely it is that the cops will escalate their violence against me. If anything, the game is a little more strict on violence than real life (because, after all, it would take the cops m
Re:There IS a correlation (Score:1)
Everyone has dark impulses.
Re:There IS a correlation (Score:3, Funny)
I don't know about you guys, but one anecdote is good enough evidence for me.
Re:There IS a correlation (Score:1)
Re:There IS a correlation (Score:1)
Many is the time that I've seen a pedestrian after a long session of Carmageddon, and thought - I could just swerve a little bit, and extend my time. Damned pedestrians, taking up my sidewalks.
In fact, I'd like to run one over right now... Whoa - where did that come from?
Re:There IS a correlation (Score:2)
Very Likely (Score:1)
Re:Very Likely (Score:2)
Me thinks this is a parental cop out for not knowing how to actually be a parent.
Dolemite
________________
If they only knew... (Score:2)
My mother and grandmother also have all sorts of stories about the things that they used to do as children. Things like jumping off of bridges into rivers while swimming. Underage
Just be glad they don't steal them... (Score:1)
How many GTA inspired crimes have there been in real life?